ZG was no way better than AQ-20 in terms of design.
Huuuge labyrinths and several hours worth of trash may be how the game was played 4-5 years ago, but instance design has come a long way since then. The bosses and their core mechanics can stay but the rest have to go; in that sense both raids are shit. I like Zg becoming a leveling 5-man but I think AQ serve a purpose lorewise, and would do so in the game as well as an overhauled lvl85 10-man.
Panda4You on
0
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
I saw basically nothing in tbc (all of kara, first boss of TK and SSC) and to this day have never seen the inside of black temple, and only saw sunwell due to the hilt questline. However, I saw all of vanilla in some form (3 chars exalted with the MC faction, farmed nefarian, made it to cthun but never fought him, didn't really do naxx but wotlk caused me to see it). I've done almost all of wotlk but I never finished ulduar, I had quit the game during that gravy train.
Of all this I think I found bwl the most impressive. Yeah I know, shitty trash and some really dull middle bosses in the drakes, but considering the progression I was able to experience at that time, the best moments I ever experienced were those fights.
I did kara over and over again on my rogue and warlock and gruul in the closing month of TBC. I really would like to do Magtheridon even now
I got to finally do BWL on my warlock even thought we blew through the instance it was still fun
We followed it up with AQ40 with fewer people and failed on the twin emperors
They are aware that almost no one will actualy attempt to run the instance at 60.
Which is why I wish they would put in Guild Achievments for completing a raid/dungeons with your guild and no one over the dungeons/raids level. Give some kind of great guild reward for it.
You haven't really thought this through, have you?
More thought than your witty reply that shows what is so bad about it. Oh wait..
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
Here you go:
Blizzard just announced some quite major currency changes that will be happening with the release of Patch 4.0.1. The major points are as follows:
Emblems of Triumph and Emblems of Frost become Justice Points.
All other emblems and badges are converted into gold, including BC level badges.
All PvP currencies (Current Honor Points, Arena Points, Marks of Honor, Stone Keeper's Shards, etc...) will become the new Honor Points.
After the break, some major Cataclysm currency changes.
As we discussed in our previous announcement (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24401796793), we're refining the currency systems used for purchasing PvE and PvP items in World of Warcraft: Cataclysm, and the transition to this new system will take place in two stages. Today, we're going into more detail on how these changes will be rolled out, so if you haven't yet, make sure to check out the prior article to get up to speed on the currency names.
One change of note since that original announcement is that we've changed the name of the low-tier PvE currency from Hero Points to Justice Points. The original announcement post has been updated to reflect this.
Out With the Old
In the upcoming 4.0 patch we'll begin the first stage of the conversion to the new currencies. Emblems of Triumph and Emblems of Frost will be converted into Justice Points. For this initial conversion there will be a soft cap of points you can have, with a hard cap enforced later as detailed below. All PvE emblems and badges below Frost and Triumph will be converted into gold. This even includes legacy badges, like Badges of Justice. If any of these older currencies are converted into gold, the player will receive it through an in-game letter.
At this time any bosses a player defeats that are level-appropriate to them (and previously awarded badges or emblems upon defeat) will award them with the new Justice Points. Similarly, any items that previously cost emblems or badges of any type will now cost Justice Points instead.
On the PvP side, Season 8 will end with the release of patch 4.0, and all Arena Points, Honor Points, any leftover Battleground Marks of Honor, Stone Keeper's Shards, Venture Coins, and Spirit Shards will be converted into the new Honor Points. The new Honor Point pool will also have a soft cap for these conversions, but a hard cap will be enforced later. At the time of conversion, items that previously cost Honor or Arena Points will be sold in exchange for the new Honor Points. Rated Arenas and Rated Battlegrounds won't be available again until Season 9 (shortly after the release of Cataclysm), when they can be entered to win the higher-tier PvP Conquest Points.
In addition, purchasing any item with these secondary currencies (Honor Points and Justice Points) will now require that the purchaser meet the item's minimum level requirement.
It's important to note that these conversions are not 1:1, but are indicative of the level and relative worth of each before the conversion to the new point systems. For example, Stone Keeper's Shards will convert into more Honor Points than Spirit Shards.
Tip of the Cap
While we previously announced that there's a limit to the amount of these new currencies you can stockpile, we're providing a grace period in the form of a soft cap. This soft cap will allow the initial conversion to push the amount owned over the cap, but will not allow any further points to be earned (or returned through item refunds) until enough points are spent to put you below the hard cap.
For instance, a player has 3000 Emblems of Triumph, and 1200 Emblems of Frost; at the time of conversion they'll be given 4200 Justice Points. The hard cap for Justice Points is 4000, so that player won't be able to earn any more Justice Points until he or she spends enough points to reduce the total to under 4000. This also applies to the new PvP Honor Points, which also have a cap of 4000.
Shortly before Cataclysm is released, another patch will enforce the hard cap, marking the second stage of the currency conversion. Any Justice or Honor Points above the hard cap will be converted to gold, and just like in the first stage of the conversion, the player will receive an in-game letter explaining that some of their currencies were converted into gold as well as delivering the gold itself.
You mean I'll actually get something for my long neglected stack of justice badges? Intresting.
Decomposey on
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
Shiny - kind of annoyed that all my low level badges are going to gold automatically though - I had downranked almost all my triumph badges to make buy gems/heirlooms on demand easier. Oh well, hopefully the to gold rate will be decent.
Edit -
I actually hope the justice -> gold rate is crap, because I spent all mine buying gems to vendor at 6g a pop. :P
So, how much gold do we get for the old legacy badges?
ed: also, I guess that's the end of my plan to use my pile of stone keeper shards to buy WG honor tokens to save for later. Spose I can buy a bunch with what I have now, though
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I did kara over and over again on my rogue and warlock and gruul in the closing month of TBC. I really would like to do Magtheridon even now
I got to finally do BWL on my warlock even thought we blew through the instance it was still fun
We followed it up with AQ40 with fewer people and failed on the twin emperors
Mag is a pretty boring fight to be honest. Pre-nerf he was a crazy-frantic fight, but they nerfed the infernal spawn, and got rid of the channeling debuff so its not the madhouse that made it fun when TBC launched.
Shiny - kind of annoyed that all my low level badges are going to gold automatically though - I had downranked almost all my triumph badges to make buy gems/heirlooms on demand easier. Oh well, hopefully the to gold rate will be decent.
Edit -
I actually hope the justice -> gold rate is crap, because I spent all mine buying gems to vendor at 6g a pop. :P
I wouldn't be so surprised if vendoring gems was a better deal than whatever they offer.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
I have a pile of badges of justice from farming MrT for the mount; I didn't use them to buy gems because I figured if nothing else, the gems might wind up being useful if I decide to level jewelcrafting on another alt.
I guess I'll wait and find out what the conversion to gold is; the return on buying epic gems is low enough that I feel like it can't be much worse.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
so triumph badges are going to be used as currency for what is currently on the frost vendor?
Basically - although I assume that triumph badges are going to give less points than frost badges when they do the conversion. Once 4.0 hits cata should only be about a month away anyway, so whatever. My question is can we cap out justice points before cata comes out and buy a ton of crap when we hit 85, or if they are going to force a cash out when cata launches.
Since most players are probably swimming in Triumph badges these days, its probably safe to assume that the conversion on those will be on the low side.
I would hope that the frost emblems convert to more than the triumph emblems, unlike that example they gave where both were 1:1.
Also, Spirit Shards are those things you get from Auchindoun when you control the towers, right? I'm pretty sure I've got a huge stack of them somewhere. Wonder why they decided to include them, and if we can expect similar treatment for Honor Hold/Thrallmar marks and Halaa Battle Tokens. It was kind of annoying that those things still took up bag space because they were too lazy to move them to the currency tab, so it would be nice if they got converted as well (plus if it gets converted to Honor Points then I may finally get around to getting that damn Dark War Talbuk, it's the only talbuk I'm missing).
I guess I can see why Venture Coins are going away since that was kind of a failed experiment that people did for the achievement and not much else, especially after 3.1 and 3.2 when even the relics weren't worth getting the coins for.
All this is pretty much going to leave the currency tab with nothing but the two dungeon currencies and two pvp currencies, isn't it?
hmmm.. i was going to convert my badges to primordial saronite... guess i wont do it now. None of my toons have been doing much of anything anymore since im more focused on the druid but i guess i should at least do the daily on all of them.
I would hope that the frost emblems convert to more than the triumph emblems, unlike that example they gave where both were 1:1.
You mean the example that's 2 paragraphs from where they explicitly say that the conversions won't be 1:1 but will be indicative of the relative worth of the legacy badges?
notmetalenough on
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All this is pretty much going to leave the currency tab with nothing but the two dungeon currencies and two pvp currencies, isn't it?
Probably a few others. The dailies for Fishing/Cooking in the capital cities give tokens, if memory serves. The JC daily tokens will probably be around still...
PMAvers on
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
The conversion's already live on the ptr. If the values stay in place from what they are there, don't expect to pick up a bunch of t10 pieces. Most of my characters have a couple hundred triumph and a couple dozen frosts and barely had enough for one piece. The prices are pretty high.
I would hope that the frost emblems convert to more than the triumph emblems, unlike that example they gave where both were 1:1.
You mean the example that's 2 paragraphs from where they explicitly say that the conversions won't be 1:1 but will be indicative of the relative worth of the legacy badges?
He says that when he's talking about the pvp stuff. Then when he is talking about the definitive cap of 4000 he lists both triumph and frost as being 1:1.
It's ambiguous at the moment whether or not that part was an example, but the wording used certainly suggested that those were the currently accurate figures.
Since most players are probably swimming in Triumph badges these days, its probably safe to assume that the conversion on those will be on the low side.
Except those who just resubbed.
like me...
Anyway, it's business as usual if you want T10. Get 5.5 GS and pug the hell out of ICC.
The conversion's already live on the ptr. If the values stay in place from what they are there, don't expect to pick up a bunch of t10 pieces. Most of my characters have a couple hundred triumph and a couple dozen frosts and barely had enough for one piece. The prices are pretty high.
do you use the heroism points to buy herilooms then? I guess I want to know if I should burn all my triumph badges getting heirloom gear now.
The conversion's already live on the ptr. If the values stay in place from what they are there, don't expect to pick up a bunch of t10 pieces. Most of my characters have a couple hundred triumph and a couple dozen frosts and barely had enough for one piece. The prices are pretty high.
If you could check, what are the PTR prices of the heirloom gear. I'm wondering if I should just blow all my emblems now buying like every single heirloom item, if the post conversion points will only let me buy a few pieces of them.
Current Heirloom items will not level/scale past 80. There will be a new set of Heirlooms (which will be acquired via the guild system) that will last from 1-85, and once you get those you can throw out your old ones. Unless you're like, sentimentally attached, I guess.
Let me ask you this. If the old ones are viable 1-80, then why would people want heirlooms just for 80-85?
The XP bonus. It's not so much that you would want heirlooms just for 80-85 it's that you would use the new heirlooms from 1-85. Unless you are stockpiling emblems now once Cata drops it is going to be more trouble than it's probably worth to farm enough emblems to get the current heirlooms. Unless Blizz has said they are going to move the current heirlooms to the new point/badge system. I haven't seen anything about that.
I'm kinda curious what they've doing with the older stuff as far as the new point system.
I mean, all the BC items should be still around and purchasable, no? So...will we be buying them (if we wanted) with the same points that will buy WotLK and Cata gear?
Vincent Grayson on
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
I didn't check the heirloom prices when I was on thr PTR last, but I can do it as soon as I get home from work in a few hours. If anyone can do it sooner, feel free.
Probably the most satisfying builds I've played so far has go to be Assassination Rogue with second being Unholy DK: both are extremely fun to play, not too overwhelming (looking at Subtelty here), and not boring (Mage).
Assassination leveling build is pretty awesome with Improved Ambush and such, I love opening up with a crit Ambush then Mutilating and having 5 CPs right off.
There are some choices though, I'm wondering if Improved Expose Armor is worth it for leveling? Because after that opener/Mut, you could immediately hit Expose Armor and get that up as you continue, then also hit a Recuperate before you start building CPs again.
My gear is just good enough at 80 that I can't quite get a good Rupture going and still be able to SnD and/or Envenom though.
I didn't bother with Murderous Intent, more of a grouping talent for obvious reasons, but yeah. My slight problem is that there's so much good stuff in early Subtlety and not enough points... like Opportunity I think it is, for the 30%+ damage to Mutilate. Things like that. I suppose ultimately, Improved Ambush is a leveling/PvP talent and won't make it into other builds, but I still like it.
Muderous intent is useless I find, but doing many tests on boss dummies with Mutilate is nice: Start with garrote (might switch to ambush cause garrote is dealing almost no damage on my parses) mutilate, SnD, mutilate mutilate for 5, use imp expose armor (which is a great dps booster), then throw on a rupture, spam mutilate throwing in C/D's and such and using envenom at 5 and keeping expose armor and rupture up. Rupture isn't dealing that much damage on my parses, but the poison that u use it for does some moderately nice damage.
Recuperate is pretty freaking sweet and makes duels last much longer. Dueled at rogue earlier and we ended up opening on each other 5-6 times cause we can't using recuperate at the right time.
I'd probably play Assassination in raid settings in Cataclysm, cause not only is the damage pretty fair and fun, but it also brings two sizable dps buffs (Master Poisoner and Expose Armor).
Oghulk on
0
SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
Posts
Of all this I think I found bwl the most impressive. Yeah I know, shitty trash and some really dull middle bosses in the drakes, but considering the progression I was able to experience at that time, the best moments I ever experienced were those fights.
I got to finally do BWL on my warlock even thought we blew through the instance it was still fun
We followed it up with AQ40 with fewer people and failed on the twin emperors
More thought than your witty reply that shows what is so bad about it. Oh wait..
Article showed up on my RSS feed, but site access is restricted here, and the entire meat of the post is hidden behind a 'click here to see more' :P
I am a freaking nerd.
Spoiler'd for long.
Edit -
I actually hope the justice -> gold rate is crap, because I spent all mine buying gems to vendor at 6g a pop. :P
I am a freaking nerd.
ed: also, I guess that's the end of my plan to use my pile of stone keeper shards to buy WG honor tokens to save for later. Spose I can buy a bunch with what I have now, though
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Mag is a pretty boring fight to be honest. Pre-nerf he was a crazy-frantic fight, but they nerfed the infernal spawn, and got rid of the channeling debuff so its not the madhouse that made it fun when TBC launched.
I wouldn't be so surprised if vendoring gems was a better deal than whatever they offer.
I guess I'll wait and find out what the conversion to gold is; the return on buying epic gems is low enough that I feel like it can't be much worse.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Basically - although I assume that triumph badges are going to give less points than frost badges when they do the conversion. Once 4.0 hits cata should only be about a month away anyway, so whatever. My question is can we cap out justice points before cata comes out and buy a ton of crap when we hit 85, or if they are going to force a cash out when cata launches.
I am a freaking nerd.
Being able to grab a bunch of frost badge gear by farming triumph pre-patch would be nice.
Steam/PSN/XBL/Minecraft / LoL / - Benevicious | WoW - Duckwood - Rajhek
Also, Spirit Shards are those things you get from Auchindoun when you control the towers, right? I'm pretty sure I've got a huge stack of them somewhere. Wonder why they decided to include them, and if we can expect similar treatment for Honor Hold/Thrallmar marks and Halaa Battle Tokens. It was kind of annoying that those things still took up bag space because they were too lazy to move them to the currency tab, so it would be nice if they got converted as well (plus if it gets converted to Honor Points then I may finally get around to getting that damn Dark War Talbuk, it's the only talbuk I'm missing).
I guess I can see why Venture Coins are going away since that was kind of a failed experiment that people did for the achievement and not much else, especially after 3.1 and 3.2 when even the relics weren't worth getting the coins for.
All this is pretty much going to leave the currency tab with nothing but the two dungeon currencies and two pvp currencies, isn't it?
You mean the example that's 2 paragraphs from where they explicitly say that the conversions won't be 1:1 but will be indicative of the relative worth of the legacy badges?
Probably a few others. The dailies for Fishing/Cooking in the capital cities give tokens, if memory serves. The JC daily tokens will probably be around still...
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He says that when he's talking about the pvp stuff. Then when he is talking about the definitive cap of 4000 he lists both triumph and frost as being 1:1.
It's ambiguous at the moment whether or not that part was an example, but the wording used certainly suggested that those were the currently accurate figures.
Except those who just resubbed.
Anyway, it's business as usual if you want T10. Get 5.5 GS and pug the hell out of ICC.
do you use the heroism points to buy herilooms then? I guess I want to know if I should burn all my triumph badges getting heirloom gear now.
I'm guessing yes. I'm just curious if you'll be able to buy the same amount of heirlooms post-conversion or less.
I'm kinda curious what they've doing with the older stuff as far as the new point system.
I mean, all the BC items should be still around and purchasable, no? So...will we be buying them (if we wanted) with the same points that will buy WotLK and Cata gear?
Also, I find something about the name "justice points" terribly amusing
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
There are some choices though, I'm wondering if Improved Expose Armor is worth it for leveling? Because after that opener/Mut, you could immediately hit Expose Armor and get that up as you continue, then also hit a Recuperate before you start building CPs again.
My gear is just good enough at 80 that I can't quite get a good Rupture going and still be able to SnD and/or Envenom though.
I didn't bother with Murderous Intent, more of a grouping talent for obvious reasons, but yeah. My slight problem is that there's so much good stuff in early Subtlety and not enough points... like Opportunity I think it is, for the 30%+ damage to Mutilate. Things like that. I suppose ultimately, Improved Ambush is a leveling/PvP talent and won't make it into other builds, but I still like it.
Recuperate is pretty freaking sweet and makes duels last much longer. Dueled at rogue earlier and we ended up opening on each other 5-6 times cause we can't using recuperate at the right time.
I'd probably play Assassination in raid settings in Cataclysm, cause not only is the damage pretty fair and fun, but it also brings two sizable dps buffs (Master Poisoner and Expose Armor).
Assn Rogue or Enh Shammie for Cata?
Well, what do you like more: poking dudes from behind or gangbanging them with your hairy friends?