reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
Well, the way I understand it, the idea behind it is that in Cata both 10 mans and 25 mans give you the same quality items, so they don't want you to double dip.
Heroic raids are run almost exactly like all raids are currently?
This is what I'm gathering, yes. I don't understand what the hubub is all about.
I mean, there is no such thing as a heroic pug raid. Sure, you'll see them forming in /2 but they're not ever successful. An ICC pug that does heroic lootship does not count as a heroic pug raid.
If you're doing heroics, you're doing it with your guild and you'll be there on a schedule. And if you miss a day, just like before, you'll be out a set of bosses. No difference. You'll still be able to rejoin later, if there is room, as you'll still be saved to that same heroic ID.
It's just that now, every other person who plays and doesn't do heroics, or at least isn't ready to join their guild in heroics, has the benefit of not getting screwed for a week with a fail pug.
I should point out that heroic is the same thing as HM's in this post.
The hubub is about doing HMs, apparently, locking you out of doing HMs in another raid size.
That, and the general "Fuck you!" to people who were doing acheivements and the like in both raid sizes.
It's great for Cataclysm, but it doesn't mesh at all with WOTLK's raid design.
Well, the way I understand it, the idea behind it is that in Cata both 10 mans and 25 mans give you the same quality items, so they don't want you to double dip.
But the system they're implementing for normal modes will already prevent that. This is overkill at best and just plain stupid at worst.
Well, the way I understand it, the idea behind it is that in Cata both 10 mans and 25 mans give you the same quality items, so they don't want you to double dip.
But the system they're implementing for normal modes will already prevent that. This is overkill at best and just plain stupid at worst.
Oh the new stuff about having to beat heroics with the same group of people? I don't see what's so bad about that. I mean, that's how raids work now, isn't it? If you dc and the group finishes the instance, you're shit out of luck for the week.
edit. Actually, if I'm reading it right, you can't bring in a new guy if you've already killed one boss on heroic and one guy disappears for whatever reason. That could be somewhat annoying if one guy ends up screwing the rest of you over, but that's what gkicks are for.
Why? They've pretty much said they don't want you raiding as much as you've been "forced" to in WOTLK and never did. They didn't want everyone running through TOC 4 times a week.
Right and that's why there is going to be a Valor cap for each week so you don't feel obligated to run heroics daily if you're already running raids throughout the week.
And you still have alts you can go run with if you feel the need to run the same content more than once per week, which I personally never understood. I'm not putting that style of play down in any way, but probably my biggest beef with WotLK raiding was feeling compelled to run the same raid twice or more per week per character to get everything I wanted (achievements, loot, badges, etc.).
Kind of? From what I understand, it's a set amount per week. So you could do your whole week worth of frost emblems in a day instead of once a day for a week.
I suspect what's going to happen is a lot like the gear movement in Wrath or rated pvp. When the new tier of raiding comes out, the previous top level gear moves down to be bought with justice points.
So after the second tier of raiding, purple letters will be about as meaningful as they are now.
But will Heroic instances still give raid-level points (like Frosts are now) once a day?
This is my understanding.
You will still get your daily Valor points from your first heroic, just like you do with frosts now; boss kills and further runs will just be Justice.
I'm not 100% sure they're still sticking with the model but they are setting a weekly cap on valor gains so that you don't feel forced to do a heroic and a complete raid every single day of every week so you can get your "max" amount of valor.
I think you won't be able to reach the cap doing just dailys; but you should be able to doing just raids.
It is also a way for them to gate gear to stagger progression in normal guilds, with the weekly max earnings.
EDIT: I'm not sure if this system is fully implemented on Beta because I haven't played as an 85 hardly at all. I've transferred a few premades but just haven't devoted any time to it.
Keep in mind we'll also be able to buy/craft the majority of an epic set right at the start of Cataclysm.
If you're referring to what you can buy with Justice Points you're mistaken. Currently, JP (oooh, FFT!) only lets you buy Blue Gear. I think you can craft some epic level items, I'm not really sure on that one tho.
Well, the way I understand it, the idea behind it is that in Cata both 10 mans and 25 mans give you the same quality items, so they don't want you to double dip.
But the system they're implementing for normal modes will already prevent that. This is overkill at best and just plain stupid at worst.
Oh the new stuff about having to beat heroics with the same group of people? I don't see what's so bad about that. I mean, that's how raids work now, isn't it? If you dc and the group finishes the instance, you're shit out of luck for the week.
edit. Actually, if I'm reading it right, you can't bring in a new guy if you've already killed one boss on heroic and one guy disappears for whatever reason. That could be somewhat annoying if one guy ends up screwing the rest of you over, but that's what gkicks are for.
I'm referring to the fact that if you do a single heroic boss on 25-man mode, you can't do any heroic bosses on 10-man mode, not even ones you haven't killed that week. I find this upsetting since I would like to do the occasional 10-man raid in Cata, but don't have time for 25-mans.
Keep in mind we'll also be able to buy/craft the majority of an epic set right at the start of Cataclysm.
If you're referring to what you can buy with Justice Points you're mistaken. Currently, JP (oooh, FFT!) only lets you buy Blue Gear. I think you can craft some epic level items, I'm not really sure on that one tho.
The buy portion of my statement referred to buying these items off the AH, not the justice points vendors. I was only talking about crafted items from blacksmithing, leatherworking, etc. Pretty much the titansteel set for the new expansion.
Edit: I had also read somewhere that Blizzard was planning for 25 man raids to give you all the valor points you need to cap in a week but 10 man would not get you to the cap, as an incentive to keep running 25 mans. Because frankly, there isn't much reason to do 25 mans now, from my perspective. Also, this was a while ago, and Blizzard could've very well changed their mind by now.
Keep in mind we'll also be able to buy/craft the majority of an epic set right at the start of Cataclysm.
If you're referring to what you can buy with Justice Points you're mistaken. Currently, JP (oooh, FFT!) only lets you buy Blue Gear. I think you can craft some epic level items, I'm not really sure on that one tho.
The buy portion of my statement referred to buying these items off the AH, not the justice points vendors. I was only talking about crafted items from blacksmithing, leatherworking, etc. Pretty much the titansteel set for the new expansion.
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Edit: I had also read somewhere that Blizzard was planning for 25 man raids to give you all the valor points you need to cap in a week but 10 man would not get you to the cap, as an incentive to keep running 25 mans. Because frankly, there isn't much reason to do 25 mans now, from my perspective. Also, this was a while ago, and Blizzard could've very well changed their mind by now.
I don't think this will be the case. If you run everything 10 man, you're done for the week.
Like I said, I read that some time ago, and it was nothing official (just a blue post, if I remember correctly). But it would make for a modest incentive to go through the extra hassle of maintaining a 25 man raiding roster over a 10 man.
They should make a sadflower, that sunflower is a little too sunny.
Maybe zombieflower?
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Just had the best LFD group ever after starting with the worst.
Doing an AK run, the tank pulls everything in sight and drops like a fly then leaves as do two of the DPS. Queue again and get replacements. Tank is called Itankedyamom so I sigh and imagine it's gonna be the same again on the next pull. Dude turns out to be one of the best tanks I've ever seen; chain pulls but constantly flicks between targeting mana classes to make sure they have just enough for the next few pulls. So we're storming through at an awesome pace but he still makes sure to look out for the back of the group and any stragglers. DPS is fantastic too and everyone is friendly.
Ended up doing a few dungeons, each only taking about 15 mins with me never having to cast more than renew and dispel to keep our badass tank up. Shame they can't all be like that.
I had a raid where we had two awesome DPS's, a good tank, a good healer, and me not doing terrible DPS. It was Gun'drak and I think we broke the record for every boss I had in there, got Less-rabi on sheer dps alone, and finish the whole thing in a little over 10 minutes. Twas awesome.
Apparently you've never played Plants vs. Zombies, which it is related to.
I've played it, but the sunniness is still overpowering!
That sunflower looks like it's been huffing one too many cans of pesticide.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Posts
The hubub is about doing HMs, apparently, locking you out of doing HMs in another raid size.
That, and the general "Fuck you!" to people who were doing acheivements and the like in both raid sizes.
It's great for Cataclysm, but it doesn't mesh at all with WOTLK's raid design.
But the system they're implementing for normal modes will already prevent that. This is overkill at best and just plain stupid at worst.
Steam: pazython
Oh the new stuff about having to beat heroics with the same group of people? I don't see what's so bad about that. I mean, that's how raids work now, isn't it? If you dc and the group finishes the instance, you're shit out of luck for the week.
edit. Actually, if I'm reading it right, you can't bring in a new guy if you've already killed one boss on heroic and one guy disappears for whatever reason. That could be somewhat annoying if one guy ends up screwing the rest of you over, but that's what gkicks are for.
No. Not as far as we know anyway.
You get to run each raid once.
I thought it'd be fewer Valor points than heroic, but Valor.
No.
Raids give Valor points. Hard modes or not.
Instances give Justice.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
But will Heroic instances still give raid-level points (like Frosts are now) once a day?
Awesome.
Wait no not awesome.
Did Blizzard just fucking timetravel, or just forget how horrible Vanilla was in almost every aspect?
So after the second tier of raiding, purple letters will be about as meaningful as they are now.
I'm sure after 4.1 is released, everyone will be purpled up pretty quick.
Seeing as the achievement says "equip an epic item..." that won't happen.
This is my understanding.
You will still get your daily Valor points from your first heroic, just like you do with frosts now; boss kills and further runs will just be Justice.
I'm not 100% sure they're still sticking with the model but they are setting a weekly cap on valor gains so that you don't feel forced to do a heroic and a complete raid every single day of every week so you can get your "max" amount of valor.
I think you won't be able to reach the cap doing just dailys; but you should be able to doing just raids.
It is also a way for them to gate gear to stagger progression in normal guilds, with the weekly max earnings.
EDIT: I'm not sure if this system is fully implemented on Beta because I haven't played as an 85 hardly at all. I've transferred a few premades but just haven't devoted any time to it.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
If you're referring to what you can buy with Justice Points you're mistaken. Currently, JP (oooh, FFT!) only lets you buy Blue Gear. I think you can craft some epic level items, I'm not really sure on that one tho.
I'm referring to the fact that if you do a single heroic boss on 25-man mode, you can't do any heroic bosses on 10-man mode, not even ones you haven't killed that week. I find this upsetting since I would like to do the occasional 10-man raid in Cata, but don't have time for 25-mans.
Steam: pazython
The buy portion of my statement referred to buying these items off the AH, not the justice points vendors. I was only talking about crafted items from blacksmithing, leatherworking, etc. Pretty much the titansteel set for the new expansion.
Edit: I had also read somewhere that Blizzard was planning for 25 man raids to give you all the valor points you need to cap in a week but 10 man would not get you to the cap, as an incentive to keep running 25 mans. Because frankly, there isn't much reason to do 25 mans now, from my perspective. Also, this was a while ago, and Blizzard could've very well changed their mind by now.
Don't forget rep vendors.
Steam: pazython
I don't think this will be the case. If you run everything 10 man, you're done for the week.
Typo?
No. He was talking about ICC, which gives Justice points.
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
Maybe zombieflower?
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Apparently you've never played Plants vs. Zombies, which it is related to.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Doing an AK run, the tank pulls everything in sight and drops like a fly then leaves as do two of the DPS. Queue again and get replacements. Tank is called Itankedyamom so I sigh and imagine it's gonna be the same again on the next pull. Dude turns out to be one of the best tanks I've ever seen; chain pulls but constantly flicks between targeting mana classes to make sure they have just enough for the next few pulls. So we're storming through at an awesome pace but he still makes sure to look out for the back of the group and any stragglers. DPS is fantastic too and everyone is friendly.
Ended up doing a few dungeons, each only taking about 15 mins with me never having to cast more than renew and dispel to keep our badass tank up. Shame they can't all be like that.
I've played it, but the sunniness is still overpowering!
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".