I still lose to 6 and 8 pools if I don't scout on time, which is pure luck on some maps... I read this on the team liquid forum and would be very interesting to know if it actually works:
1. Select all workers, spam right clicks on mineral patch until drones stack and becomes one (lol).
2. WHen lings pull close, right click quickly on one of them. 14 x5 is 70 dmg, enough to one shot lings.
and seriously the margin of error a terran has between winning and losing against a FE mass muta is ridiculous because there is no good counter. Mutas snipe out individual turrets, kill some SCVs, swoop out. Snipe some marines, swoop out. Magic box your thors, swoop out.
You have to have just the right amount of units in the right position or else it just snowballs and then mass zerglings enter your base
Ehhhh, if a zerg player literally goes mass muta, just go mass marine. Seriously just pump reactor raxes and nothing but stimmed marines. They will literally decimate mutas unbelievably fast. On a cost-for-cost basis, marines will annihilate mutas.
I am finding that I tend to base race people... should I not do that? If their army gets to my base when my army gets to their base, I'm usually like screw it *lift off and float around* and kill their base.
Lift-off is OP.
Zerg should get burrow for their hatch, but noooooo. Terran already patented that shit for their supply depots.
that comparison isn't fair, supply depots don't gain invisibility when they burrow.
shit, I hope blizzard doesn't read this thread.
I wasn't being too serious. But burrow for zergs buildings would be kinda cool and fill the same function as terrans liftoff but with other pros/cons (no movement but you'd need detectors to shoot at it).
Zerg building burrow would be sweet. Maybe a late game upgrade or something, and have the buildings exit point be the nydus network? Awesome.
That is the EXACT response I hope for when I build a ton of mutas. Oh what you are reactor pumping tons of marines? Why hello mr baneling!
Seriously, if you are terran and I am massing mutas, PLEASSSEE please PLEASE!! mass marines PLEASE!
On a side note, this thread is filled with terrible advice.
and seriously the margin of error a terran has between winning and losing against a FE mass muta is ridiculous because there is no good counter. Mutas snipe out individual turrets, kill some SCVs, swoop out. Snipe some marines, swoop out. Magic box your thors, swoop out.
You have to have just the right amount of units in the right position or else it just snowballs and then mass zerglings enter your base
Ehhhh, if a zerg player literally goes mass muta, just go mass marine. Seriously just pump reactor raxes and nothing but stimmed marines. They will literally decimate mutas unbelievably fast. On a cost-for-cost basis, marines will annihilate mutas.
I am finding that I tend to base race people... should I not do that? If their army gets to my base when my army gets to their base, I'm usually like screw it *lift off and float around* and kill their base.
Lift-off is OP.
Zerg should get burrow for their hatch, but noooooo. Terran already patented that shit for their supply depots.
that comparison isn't fair, supply depots don't gain invisibility when they burrow.
shit, I hope blizzard doesn't read this thread.
I wasn't being too serious. But burrow for zergs buildings would be kinda cool and fill the same function as terrans liftoff but with other pros/cons (no movement but you'd need detectors to shoot at it).
Zerg building burrow would be sweet. Maybe a late game upgrade or something, and have the buildings exit point be the nydus network? Awesome.
That is the EXACT response I hope for when I build a ton of mutas. Oh what you are reactor pumping tons of marines? Why hello mr baneling!
Seriously, if you are terran and I am massing mutas, PLEASSSEE please PLEASE!! mass marines PLEASE!
On a side note, this thread is filled with terrible advice.
I'm still going to make quite a bit of marines and medivacs vs mass muta, I'm sorry. It's the easiest and often best response
Thors. I still have to sit down and learn how to magic box.
Ezekiel on
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
I often try for quick vikings if I'm feeling scared of Mutas. My problem tends to be that I'll build too many and a ground army will crush me.
You have to have quite a few more vikings than mutas to come out on top tho.
Ezekiel on
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
and seriously the margin of error a terran has between winning and losing against a FE mass muta is ridiculous because there is no good counter. Mutas snipe out individual turrets, kill some SCVs, swoop out. Snipe some marines, swoop out. Magic box your thors, swoop out.
You have to have just the right amount of units in the right position or else it just snowballs and then mass zerglings enter your base
the easiest solution is to punish that FE to stop the mass muta. he'll have to balance powering drones with defense, forcing him to defend will negate the extra economy from the FE. if you catch him while he's droning you've won the game right there.
letting him get a big muta ball is just like him letting you get a mmm ball or a mech ball and push out. if he engages with mutas he loses. hes trying to contain you so you cant expand, while he takes his 3rd and 4th. so you need to push out before he has enough mutas to instantly kill your main/scvs. if you can force him to engage, you win.
thors with marines support destroy mutas. if he magic boxes the marines rip the mutas, if he focus fires the thor splash rips the mutas apart.
and seriously the margin of error a terran has between winning and losing against a FE mass muta is ridiculous because there is no good counter. Mutas snipe out individual turrets, kill some SCVs, swoop out. Snipe some marines, swoop out. Magic box your thors, swoop out.
You have to have just the right amount of units in the right position or else it just snowballs and then mass zerglings enter your base
Ehhhh, if a zerg player literally goes mass muta, just go mass marine. Seriously just pump reactor raxes and nothing but stimmed marines. They will literally decimate mutas unbelievably fast. On a cost-for-cost basis, marines will annihilate mutas.
They will... kill one in every 10 mutas? That hardly sounds like a good counter.
I often try for quick vikings if I'm feeling scared of Mutas. My problem tends to be that I'll build too many and a ground army will crush me.
You have to have quite a few more vikings than mutas to come out on top tho.
I have had success with just getting a couple vikings and having them patrol your bases. Because of the vikings range you can cover more area than just building a lot missle turrets. The mutas have to get in range of the vikings, and if the vikings are in the right spot then missle turrets will be in range too. Once the zerg notices this they will try to fly away and your vikings will get a couple extra shots off. Then the terran is worry free of any more muta harass for the most part.
3-4 vikings and a few missle turrets is normally enough to stop the harassment and lets your marines move out and do more important things.
and seriously the margin of error a terran has between winning and losing against a FE mass muta is ridiculous because there is no good counter. Mutas snipe out individual turrets, kill some SCVs, swoop out. Snipe some marines, swoop out. Magic box your thors, swoop out.
You have to have just the right amount of units in the right position or else it just snowballs and then mass zerglings enter your base
Ehhhh, if a zerg player literally goes mass muta, just go mass marine. Seriously just pump reactor raxes and nothing but stimmed marines. They will literally decimate mutas unbelievably fast. On a cost-for-cost basis, marines will annihilate mutas.
They will... kill one in every 10 mutas? That hardly sounds like a good counter.
and seriously the margin of error a terran has between winning and losing against a FE mass muta is ridiculous because there is no good counter. Mutas snipe out individual turrets, kill some SCVs, swoop out. Snipe some marines, swoop out. Magic box your thors, swoop out.
You have to have just the right amount of units in the right position or else it just snowballs and then mass zerglings enter your base
the easiest solution is to punish that FE to stop the mass muta. he'll have to balance powering drones with defense, forcing him to defend will negate the extra economy from the FE. if you catch him while he's droning you've won the game right there.
letting him get a big muta ball is just like him letting you get a mmm ball or a mech ball and push out. if he engages with mutas he loses. hes trying to contain you so you cant expand, while he takes his 3rd and 4th. so you need to push out before he has enough mutas to instantly kill your main/scvs. if you can force him to engage, you win.
thors with marines support destroy mutas. if he magic boxes the marines rip the mutas, if he focus fires the thor splash rips the mutas apart.
This is where I'm talking about margin of error as well. You got to spot that FE and engage immediately, or things will not go your way after the 8 minute mark
and thor + marine does not destroy mass muta the way it should. With magic box + dwindling of marines over time, you'll never have the amount of marines needed to knock out enough mutas as they hover over your thors.
It's certainly possible to beat mass muta and I've done it, but I find myself losing to it a lot more than winning, and mostly it's because the other player messes up his micro and clumps them at some time.
And it's mostly annoying because you have to focus almost all your AA counters to take out one unit. You need a combination of turrets, thors, and marines spread across all your bases evenly to be able to counter it effectively, and even then it's not guaranteed
and seriously the margin of error a terran has between winning and losing against a FE mass muta is ridiculous because there is no good counter. Mutas snipe out individual turrets, kill some SCVs, swoop out. Snipe some marines, swoop out. Magic box your thors, swoop out.
You have to have just the right amount of units in the right position or else it just snowballs and then mass zerglings enter your base
the easiest solution is to punish that FE to stop the mass muta. he'll have to balance powering drones with defense, forcing him to defend will negate the extra economy from the FE. if you catch him while he's droning you've won the game right there.
letting him get a big muta ball is just like him letting you get a mmm ball or a mech ball and push out. if he engages with mutas he loses. hes trying to contain you so you cant expand, while he takes his 3rd and 4th. so you need to push out before he has enough mutas to instantly kill your main/scvs. if you can force him to engage, you win.
thors with marines support destroy mutas. if he magic boxes the marines rip the mutas, if he focus fires the thor splash rips the mutas apart.
This is where I'm talking about margin of error as well. You got to spot that FE and engage immediately, or things will not go your way after the 8 minute mark
and thor + marine does not destroy mass muta the way it should. With magic box + dwindling of marines over time, you'll never have the amount of marines needed to knock out enough mutas as they hover over your thors.
It's certainly possible to beat mass muta and I've done it, but I find myself losing to it a lot more than winning, and mostly it's because the other player messes up his micro and clumps them at some time.
And it's mostly annoying because you have to focus almost all your AA counters to take out one unit. You need a combination of turrets, thors, and marines spread across all your bases evenly to be able to counter it effectively, and even then it's not guaranteed
thats been the problem forever with mutas, and the reason for their major SC nerfing in 1.04 . That bounce damage does crazy damage when stacked with massive (around 20ish) amounts of mutas.
psi storm turns out to be about the only effective counter at that point...
I would just like to take this moment to recognize s_86 (aka Simon) for doing one of the most badass things a stranger has ever done for me.
I asked him if he could coach me a little bit to improve my game as I try to move up to diamond, and he agreed. So, we set up a game and he silently watched me play the computer on hard to get an idea of where I was at.
That same night (within 3 or 4 hours of watching me play) he sent me a 2000 word write up on how to improve my game.
Seriously s_86 thank you so much! Unfortunately I haven't had an opportunity to sit down and practice everything you suggested, but I am hoping to get some solid time in this weekend.
and seriously the margin of error a terran has between winning and losing against a FE mass muta is ridiculous because there is no good counter. Mutas snipe out individual turrets, kill some SCVs, swoop out. Snipe some marines, swoop out. Magic box your thors, swoop out.
You have to have just the right amount of units in the right position or else it just snowballs and then mass zerglings enter your base
Ehhhh, if a zerg player literally goes mass muta, just go mass marine. Seriously just pump reactor raxes and nothing but stimmed marines. They will literally decimate mutas unbelievably fast. On a cost-for-cost basis, marines will annihilate mutas.
I am finding that I tend to base race people... should I not do that? If their army gets to my base when my army gets to their base, I'm usually like screw it *lift off and float around* and kill their base.
Lift-off is OP.
Zerg should get burrow for their hatch, but noooooo. Terran already patented that shit for their supply depots.
that comparison isn't fair, supply depots don't gain invisibility when they burrow.
shit, I hope blizzard doesn't read this thread.
I wasn't being too serious. But burrow for zergs buildings would be kinda cool and fill the same function as terrans liftoff but with other pros/cons (no movement but you'd need detectors to shoot at it).
Zerg building burrow would be sweet. Maybe a late game upgrade or something, and have the buildings exit point be the nydus network? Awesome.
That is the EXACT response I hope for when I build a ton of mutas. Oh what you are reactor pumping tons of marines? Why hello mr baneling!
Seriously, if you are terran and I am massing mutas, PLEASSSEE please PLEASE!! mass marines PLEASE!
On a side note, this thread is filled with terrible advice.
So bring 2-3 tanks with your marines... keep good court awareness and siege your tanks. Micro your marines into small groups to avoid mass marine death, and you'll be ok.
You're letting yourself get contained as Terran versus Zerg. Just push out. You've got 1-2 turrets on your mineral line, you're fine. He's going to have to A. Fight the turrets and waste time. Or B Pull back and save his nat. Marines with Stim/Shield/1+ Weap utterly RAPE muta. Post some replays so I can see what the h*ck you're talking about. Cause I have no idea how you're losing to mass muta.
As val said, punish his FE. I dont know what small margin of error you're talking about. If you have a decent build you'll be applying pressure throughout the entire FE timing.
EDIT: If he's making banelings, just make hellions. It's not very hard to micro around them. Tanks also work like your said, but they're kind of slow. Due to the mobility of Muta/Bling it's not the best counter.
You're letting yourself get contained as Terran versus Zerg. Just push out. You've got 1-2 turrets on your mineral line, you're fine. He's going to have to A. Fight the turrets and waste time. Or B Pull back and save his nat. Marines with Stim/Shield/1+ Weap utterly RAPE muta. Post some replays so I can see what the h*ck you're talking about. Cause I have no idea how you're losing to mass muta.
As val said, punish his FE. I dont know what small margin of error you're talking about. If you have a decent build you'll be applying pressure throughout the entire FE timing.
EDIT: If he's making banelings, just make hellions. It's not very hard to micro around them. Tanks also work like your said, but they're kind of slow. Due to the mobility of Muta/Bling it's not the best counter.
IIRC, 1+ armor is superior vs muta. +1 weap causes a muta to go down from 18 shots instead of 20. +1 armor lets a marine survive a six shots after stim (prior, 5), while drastically cutting bounce damage.
Edit: raping mutas, while being vastly inferior in all other applications that is.
and seriously the margin of error a terran has between winning and losing against a FE mass muta is ridiculous because there is no good counter. Mutas snipe out individual turrets, kill some SCVs, swoop out. Snipe some marines, swoop out. Magic box your thors, swoop out.
You have to have just the right amount of units in the right position or else it just snowballs and then mass zerglings enter your base
Ehhhh, if a zerg player literally goes mass muta, just go mass marine. Seriously just pump reactor raxes and nothing but stimmed marines. They will literally decimate mutas unbelievably fast. On a cost-for-cost basis, marines will annihilate mutas.
They will... kill one in every 10 mutas? That hardly sounds like a good counter.
thestig is bad at jokes
the word you're looking for is decimate
not annihilate
He said "literally decimate"... here I'll bold it for you.
and seriously the margin of error a terran has between winning and losing against a FE mass muta is ridiculous because there is no good counter. Mutas snipe out individual turrets, kill some SCVs, swoop out. Snipe some marines, swoop out. Magic box your thors, swoop out.
You have to have just the right amount of units in the right position or else it just snowballs and then mass zerglings enter your base
Ehhhh, if a zerg player literally goes mass muta, just go mass marine. Seriously just pump reactor raxes and nothing but stimmed marines. They will literally decimate mutas unbelievably fast. On a cost-for-cost basis, marines will annihilate mutas.
They will... kill one in every 10 mutas? That hardly sounds like a good counter.
thestig is bad at jokes
the word you're looking for is decimate
not annihilate
He said "literally decimate"... here I'll bold it for you.
Seriously s_86 thank you so much! Unfortunately I haven't had an opportunity to sit down and practice everything you suggested, but I am hoping to get some solid time in this weekend.
I have found the PA community to be extremely helpful in this regard, i've had several people helping me get my game going in a positive direction after flailing aimlessly for 500 ladder games. It's one of the biggest reasons that I continue to hang in these forums.
Posts
He probably got fourgated
he probably got 2 gated
Is it really a 2-gateway double chronoboost? That does sound more robost and much more difficult to fight off.
Origin: Viycktor
A proxy pylon 4-warpgate is almost impossible to stop if the Toss times it right, because you have to somehow stop 4 zealots every 23 seconds.
the reason they are nerfing zealots is because exactly that, 2 gateway double chronoboost, they've stated as much
Isn't it a 5 second build time nerf? which would delay...3 seconds with chrono?
FFBE: 898,311,440
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/dElementalor
don't underestimate the amount of difference 5/3 seconds per unit is going to make in a rush, it's significant
people will still be able to 2-gate, the patch won't kill it... but you know
That is the EXACT response I hope for when I build a ton of mutas. Oh what you are reactor pumping tons of marines? Why hello mr baneling!
Seriously, if you are terran and I am massing mutas, PLEASSSEE please PLEASE!! mass marines PLEASE!
On a side note, this thread is filled with terrible advice.
I'm still going to make quite a bit of marines and medivacs vs mass muta, I'm sorry. It's the easiest and often best response
Thors. I still have to sit down and learn how to magic box.
Nah they still handily beat them on a cost/cost basis
thors still win mineral/gas wise
I often try for quick vikings if I'm feeling scared of Mutas. My problem tends to be that I'll build too many and a ground army will crush me.
real bitch
You have to have quite a few more vikings than mutas to come out on top tho.
Oh I didn't realize
I was under the impression vikings weren't that great against mutas
the easiest solution is to punish that FE to stop the mass muta. he'll have to balance powering drones with defense, forcing him to defend will negate the extra economy from the FE. if you catch him while he's droning you've won the game right there.
letting him get a big muta ball is just like him letting you get a mmm ball or a mech ball and push out. if he engages with mutas he loses. hes trying to contain you so you cant expand, while he takes his 3rd and 4th. so you need to push out before he has enough mutas to instantly kill your main/scvs. if you can force him to engage, you win.
thors with marines support destroy mutas. if he magic boxes the marines rip the mutas, if he focus fires the thor splash rips the mutas apart.
They will... kill one in every 10 mutas? That hardly sounds like a good counter.
you forgot siege tanks bro
I have had success with just getting a couple vikings and having them patrol your bases. Because of the vikings range you can cover more area than just building a lot missle turrets. The mutas have to get in range of the vikings, and if the vikings are in the right spot then missle turrets will be in range too. Once the zerg notices this they will try to fly away and your vikings will get a couple extra shots off. Then the terran is worry free of any more muta harass for the most part.
3-4 vikings and a few missle turrets is normally enough to stop the harassment and lets your marines move out and do more important things.
thestig is bad at jokes
the word you're looking for is decimate
not annihilate
This is where I'm talking about margin of error as well. You got to spot that FE and engage immediately, or things will not go your way after the 8 minute mark
and thor + marine does not destroy mass muta the way it should. With magic box + dwindling of marines over time, you'll never have the amount of marines needed to knock out enough mutas as they hover over your thors.
It's certainly possible to beat mass muta and I've done it, but I find myself losing to it a lot more than winning, and mostly it's because the other player messes up his micro and clumps them at some time.
And it's mostly annoying because you have to focus almost all your AA counters to take out one unit. You need a combination of turrets, thors, and marines spread across all your bases evenly to be able to counter it effectively, and even then it's not guaranteed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYZ-DwcWF6k&feature=player_embedded#!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=174GeMzzoWI&feature=player_embedded
not really needed since hellions cook lings and hydras
thats been the problem forever with mutas, and the reason for their major SC nerfing in 1.04 . That bounce damage does crazy damage when stacked with massive (around 20ish) amounts of mutas.
psi storm turns out to be about the only effective counter at that point...
Joe's Stream.
I asked him if he could coach me a little bit to improve my game as I try to move up to diamond, and he agreed. So, we set up a game and he silently watched me play the computer on hard to get an idea of where I was at.
That same night (within 3 or 4 hours of watching me play) he sent me a 2000 word write up on how to improve my game.
Seriously s_86 thank you so much! Unfortunately I haven't had an opportunity to sit down and practice everything you suggested, but I am hoping to get some solid time in this weekend.
So bring 2-3 tanks with your marines... keep good court awareness and siege your tanks. Micro your marines into small groups to avoid mass marine death, and you'll be ok.
You're letting yourself get contained as Terran versus Zerg. Just push out. You've got 1-2 turrets on your mineral line, you're fine. He's going to have to A. Fight the turrets and waste time. Or B Pull back and save his nat. Marines with Stim/Shield/1+ Weap utterly RAPE muta. Post some replays so I can see what the h*ck you're talking about. Cause I have no idea how you're losing to mass muta.
As val said, punish his FE. I dont know what small margin of error you're talking about. If you have a decent build you'll be applying pressure throughout the entire FE timing.
EDIT: If he's making banelings, just make hellions. It's not very hard to micro around them. Tanks also work like your said, but they're kind of slow. Due to the mobility of Muta/Bling it's not the best counter.
the bounce would kill the scvs in seconds.
Joe's Stream.
IIRC, 1+ armor is superior vs muta. +1 weap causes a muta to go down from 18 shots instead of 20. +1 armor lets a marine survive a six shots after stim (prior, 5), while drastically cutting bounce damage.
Edit: raping mutas, while being vastly inferior in all other applications that is.
He said "literally decimate"... here I'll bold it for you.
See, I am the best at jokes!
Daaaang, Lustre just got decimated.
so i mean
i guess to test the validity of the statement you would have to count the giblets that fly out when a muta gets killed?
not it
I have found the PA community to be extremely helpful in this regard, i've had several people helping me get my game going in a positive direction after flailing aimlessly for 500 ladder games. It's one of the biggest reasons that I continue to hang in these forums.
Joe's Stream.