DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited December 2014
Thing is...and this is me being snobby action game fan, but games like these are never going to be super big because they require a certain amount of investment that other AAA titles don't. At least for you to feel cool while playing them.
That isn't to say they can't do well enough for themselves. I think 3-4 million is more than possible. Maybe even a bit more than that if it catches fire.
Which is a shame because they did some really incredible level design.
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Psychotic OneThe Lord of No PantsParts UnknownRegistered Userregular
I think the main difference in DmC Vergil and Vergil Classic is that classic was raised in a world where he had not only manifested his power but trained and powered it. Him and Dante would fight each other constantly at super human levels. DmC Vergil was raised as a rebel fighter and anarchist. Sure he had some power but I don't think it was implied that he had near the experience fighting demons that his brother Dante had. DmC Dante was a loner who killed demons and went to Angel strip bars and didn't know he had a brother. He was forced to basically Goku his Devil form out of necessity. Vergil at that point never faced adversity at that tier yet.
Basically Classic was nothing but a blood knight while DmC was a strategist but not a front line warrior. If anything the only real downside of DmC Vergil is that his Heel / Face turn was so quick and sudden with virtually no build up.
Critical praise for gameplay and it got mediocre sales because nobody wanted a redesign so yeah Im pretty sure the next game will be in the real DMC universe
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
I think the main difference in DmC Vergil and Vergil Classic is that classic was raised in a world where he had not only manifested his power but trained and powered it. Him and Dante would fight each other constantly at super human levels. DmC Vergil was raised as a rebel fighter and anarchist. Sure he had some power but I don't think it was implied that he had near the experience fighting demons that his brother Dante had. DmC Dante was a loner who killed demons and went to Angel strip bars and didn't know he had a brother. He was forced to basically Goku his Devil form out of necessity. Vergil at that point never faced adversity at that tier yet.
Basically Classic was nothing but a blood knight while DmC was a strategist but not a front line warrior. If anything the only real downside of DmC Vergil is that his Heel / Face turn was so quick and sudden with virtually no build up.
I'm all for different kinds of characters, and Vergil in DmC works as a supporting character. He comes off as a tricky bastard. Problem is this will never engage you as a rival to fight in a character action game like in DMC3. This is a character action game, the only thing trickery will do is give you catharsis when you beat them (and considering the abruptness of the confrontation this isn't even really a thing in DmC), not the holy shit epic fights a proper rival can.
Because Vergil in DmC isn't your rival, he's only attempted to be sold as such at the end because it's expected. It's like if the tech support nerd turns factions in your face at the end of splinter cell, within punching distance, and going all "I'm gonna beat your ass!". As Fischer you'd just raise your eyebrow and smack him in the face.
It's basically fanservice, except with the wrong characters so it doesn't really work that way either.
Everyone coming into this thread interested in DmC remaster: Don't take this as me trashing the game though, I liked DmC and it went above my expectations as a DMC fan. Also these aren't issues that's unique to DmC, DMC4 had a terrible story made all the worse because it could have been good.
I think the main difference in DmC Vergil and Vergil Classic is that classic was raised in a world where he had not only manifested his power but trained and powered it. Him and Dante would fight each other constantly at super human levels. DmC Vergil was raised as a rebel fighter and anarchist. Sure he had some power but I don't think it was implied that he had near the experience fighting demons that his brother Dante had. DmC Dante was a loner who killed demons and went to Angel strip bars and didn't know he had a brother. He was forced to basically Goku his Devil form out of necessity. Vergil at that point never faced adversity at that tier yet.
Basically Classic was nothing but a blood knight while DmC was a strategist but not a front line warrior. If anything the only real downside of DmC Vergil is that his Heel / Face turn was so quick and sudden with virtually no build up.
DmC Vergil wasn't weak persay.
They/He just came up with multiple plot reasons for him not to go to town on some demons.
Remember, they didn't know there were two kids, in order for their plans to work, Dante had to be the big demon-killing diversion, in order for Vergil to be able to stealth kill his Demon Gate.
Which is why his activity was mostly limited to the human world. They knew who he was, they just didn't know what he was capable of.
DMC3 Vergil was an emotionally scarred child who lost his mother and there was nothing he could do about it. Which is why he becomes obsessed with power, while Dante dealt with it by NOT dealing with it.
Also, DMC3
A nice little tidbit, Vergil was obsessed with power, right? because , his words, without power you can't protect anything?
But this is a kid who's already lost his mom, so why is he going after more power?
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2014
He was just talking down to dante there. I don't think he actually wants to protect anything. He was lecturing dante on why he was weak even though dante keeps trying to protect people.
It was shit talk.
His motivation is power, but his purpose is lost. That's his main character arc and what dante points out at the end.
DMC3 has a much better story than it has any right to considering how crazy 80% of the cutscenes are.
I quite liked DMC4's story but I'm a sucker for romance plots. :P
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A nice little tidbit, Vergil was obsessed with power, right? because , his words, without power you can't protect anything?
But this is a kid who's already lost his mom, so why is he going after more power?
If nothing has value if you cannot personally protect it, what's the point of getting anything before you are powerful? He lost everything and finds no reason to collect anything but power until he has arbitrarily decided he's powerful enough to protect whatever else he might want.
Edit: Don't even get me started on DMC4s plot, it could've been so much better but ended up trite. DMC3s story is indeed great, more action games need to understand to make extremely simple plots with few characters for their games. Anything else just turns up unpolished or boring when the focus of the budget won't be story elements anyway.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2014
I didn't say it was a well written story. Just that I liked it. It could have been better, but I don't ask for much from my action games.
DMC3 and Shadow Warrior are two crazy ass high octane games that I just utterly did not expect such a good story from.
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It's actually kind of weird how they rebooted right after 4. Was there anyone in the world that didn't like DMC4 Dante? He was The Best. The tango innuendo cutscene was too much for me, but pretty much everything else (oh god the opening cutscene with Dante vs Nero he's so great) was amazing.
He was just talking down to dante there. I don't think he actually wants to protect anything. He was lecturing dante on why he was weak even though dante keeps trying to protect people.
It was shit talk.
His motivation is power, but his purpose is lost. That's his main character arc and what dante points out at the end.
DMC3 has a much better story than it has any right to considering how crazy 80% of the cutscenes are.
I quite liked DMC4's story but I'm a sucker for romance plots. :P
If you look into what Dante and Virgil actually went through for the bulk of their childhood its amazing only one of them became a Sasuke.
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
It's actually kind of weird how they rebooted right after 4. Was there anyone in the world that didn't like DMC4 Dante? He was The Best. The tango innuendo cutscene was too much for me, but pretty much everything else (oh god the opening cutscene with Dante vs Nero he's so great) was amazing.
There was no logic behind it. 4 sold better than all the previous games. The only net positive is we got Dragons Dogma and it was amazing
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
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MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
It's actually kind of weird how they rebooted right after 4. Was there anyone in the world that didn't like DMC4 Dante? He was The Best. The tango innuendo cutscene was too much for me, but pretty much everything else (oh god the opening cutscene with Dante vs Nero he's so great) was amazing.
I adore the part where Dante sticks his sword in the ground and "revs" it.
It's worth rewatching with tutorials enabled just to see those scenes again, otherwise they get cut.
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I actually got a lot of depth from Vergil's arc in DMC3 and his reasons for wanting power.
He wanted the power of Sparda, so he could do what Sparda did. He and Dante were both trying to play the role of protector, while Dante was very passive, Vergil was persistent. I think he knew about Mundus all along, and wanted Sparda's power so he could defeat him.
It's actually kind of weird how they rebooted right after 4. Was there anyone in the world that didn't like DMC4 Dante? He was The Best. The tango innuendo cutscene was too much for me, but pretty much everything else (oh god the opening cutscene with Dante vs Nero he's so great) was amazing.
I adore the part where Dante sticks his sword in the ground and "revs" it.
It's worth rewatching with tutorials enabled just to see those scenes again, otherwise they get cut.
That cracked me up so bad, it was perfectly Dante. I liked how they presented both Nero and Dante at the beginning, it's only later that Nero becomes bland. The all out rage/angst thing isn't Dante's schtick so Nero feels like his own character when he fights that way.
I actually got a lot of depth from Vergil's arc in DMC3 and his reasons for wanting power.
He wanted the power of Sparda, so he could do what Sparda did. He and Dante were both trying to play the role of protector, while Dante was very passive, Vergil was persistent. I think he knew about Mundus all along, and wanted Sparda's power so he could defeat him.
Yeah its heavily implied thats why Dante is the heir. He doesnt want the power so it cant corrupt him like it dies with Virgil
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Critical praise for gameplay and it got mediocre sales because nobody wanted a redesign so yeah Im pretty sure the next game will be in the real DMC universe
Nobody wanted that redesign and I never heard anything good about the high level gameplay from hardcore fans of this genre.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
DmC has a good base as far as Dante's moveset went.
Just that the enemy design really didn't match it.
Also, Demon Evade was hella broke.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2014
You should see Saur tear DmC apart. It's an education.
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Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2014
Saurian Dash.
He wrote the bayonetta official game guide. Had an interview with platinum games about it. http://platinumgames.com/2014/05/19/interview-with-saurian-dash-part-1/
He knows what he's talking about. When I eventually get the wonderful 101 I will be going straight to his system breakdown guides.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Critical praise for gameplay and it got mediocre sales because nobody wanted a redesign so yeah Im pretty sure the next game will be in the real DMC universe
Nobody wanted that redesign and I never heard anything good about the high level gameplay from hardcore fans of this genre.
That "hardcore" fan base can't support the kind of numbers Capcom wants for their games to be considered successful.
And, as someone who had maxed out everything in DMC 3 and 4, finished every difficulty mode with at least S rank, and loved the minutia of the games' systems, DmC was an awesome game that tells a fantastic story, and manages to have a deep combat system that also manages to be accessible for people who aren't crazy like me.
Yes there is. It fixes a lot of issues, adds 360 controller support, improves the visuals and performance, and adds some really awesome gameplay features.
Saurian Dash.
He wrote the bayonetta official game guide. Had an interview with platinum games about it. http://platinumgames.com/2014/05/19/interview-with-saurian-dash-part-1/
He knows what he's talking about. When I eventually get the wonderful 101 I will be going straight to his system breakdown guides.
Can you link this DmC thing please? Google seems to be failing me.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Yes there is. It fixes a lot of issues, adds 360 controller support, improves the visuals and performance, and adds some really awesome gameplay features.
And if you just want the fixes the gameplay stuff can be turned off.
So... how well does that mod work? I mean, are we talking "It's still an awful port, but at least it looks pretty and you can just about use a 360 controller" or "Blows the PS2 version out of the water, makes the PC version the definitive DMC3"?
It basically makes PC DMC 3 into the best version ever, imo. Playing it at 1920x1080 with the washed out look gone is fucking glorious and there are some nice QoL fixes in there for both casual and hardcore players. It also generally just seems to run better. The gamepad fix is support for xinput devices in general so it adds support for a hell of a lot more than just 360 pads and the gameplay alterations open up a giant wealth of combo opportunities if you want to venture down that path but it's all optional.
The other upshot to the PC version is that you can just download a 100% complete save and treat the game like a giant combo playground if you don't want to be bothered playing through the whole thing again.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
DmC was the only game in the series I genuinely enjoyed, I'll be sad if they revert back to the old universe for future games.
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That isn't to say they can't do well enough for themselves. I think 3-4 million is more than possible. Maybe even a bit more than that if it catches fire.
Basically Classic was nothing but a blood knight while DmC was a strategist but not a front line warrior. If anything the only real downside of DmC Vergil is that his Heel / Face turn was so quick and sudden with virtually no build up.
Well I think theyve proven that theyre idiots this was just one of several moves that showed they revel in it
Critical praise for gameplay and it got mediocre sales because nobody wanted a redesign so yeah Im pretty sure the next game will be in the real DMC universe
I'm all for different kinds of characters, and Vergil in DmC works as a supporting character. He comes off as a tricky bastard. Problem is this will never engage you as a rival to fight in a character action game like in DMC3. This is a character action game, the only thing trickery will do is give you catharsis when you beat them (and considering the abruptness of the confrontation this isn't even really a thing in DmC), not the holy shit epic fights a proper rival can.
Because Vergil in DmC isn't your rival, he's only attempted to be sold as such at the end because it's expected. It's like if the tech support nerd turns factions in your face at the end of splinter cell, within punching distance, and going all "I'm gonna beat your ass!". As Fischer you'd just raise your eyebrow and smack him in the face.
It's basically fanservice, except with the wrong characters so it doesn't really work that way either.
Everyone coming into this thread interested in DmC remaster: Don't take this as me trashing the game though, I liked DmC and it went above my expectations as a DMC fan. Also these aren't issues that's unique to DmC, DMC4 had a terrible story made all the worse because it could have been good.
DmC Vergil wasn't weak persay.
They/He just came up with multiple plot reasons for him not to go to town on some demons.
Remember, they didn't know there were two kids, in order for their plans to work, Dante had to be the big demon-killing diversion, in order for Vergil to be able to stealth kill his Demon Gate.
Which is why his activity was mostly limited to the human world. They knew who he was, they just didn't know what he was capable of.
DMC3 Vergil was an emotionally scarred child who lost his mother and there was nothing he could do about it. Which is why he becomes obsessed with power, while Dante dealt with it by NOT dealing with it.
Also, DMC3
But this is a kid who's already lost his mom, so why is he going after more power?
It was shit talk.
His motivation is power, but his purpose is lost. That's his main character arc and what dante points out at the end.
DMC3 has a much better story than it has any right to considering how crazy 80% of the cutscenes are.
I quite liked DMC4's story but I'm a sucker for romance plots. :P
Edit: Don't even get me started on DMC4s plot, it could've been so much better but ended up trite. DMC3s story is indeed great, more action games need to understand to make extremely simple plots with few characters for their games. Anything else just turns up unpolished or boring when the focus of the budget won't be story elements anyway.
DMC3 and Shadow Warrior are two crazy ass high octane games that I just utterly did not expect such a good story from.
Even with these two releases, I am not convinced we will see a DmC2 or DMC5
Capcom is super dumb
If you look into what Dante and Virgil actually went through for the bulk of their childhood its amazing only one of them became a Sasuke.
It was like after Virgil was written for the main plot, someone came in and said, "OK, now we have to make them fight because reasons."
So they tacked on some bullshit that really isn't all that supported in the main story.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
All three of them are significantly more clever than they initially present themselves as.
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
Huh.
You can never tell.
I adore the part where Dante sticks his sword in the ground and "revs" it.
It's worth rewatching with tutorials enabled just to see those scenes again, otherwise they get cut.
He wanted the power of Sparda, so he could do what Sparda did. He and Dante were both trying to play the role of protector, while Dante was very passive, Vergil was persistent. I think he knew about Mundus all along, and wanted Sparda's power so he could defeat him.
That cracked me up so bad, it was perfectly Dante. I liked how they presented both Nero and Dante at the beginning, it's only later that Nero becomes bland. The all out rage/angst thing isn't Dante's schtick so Nero feels like his own character when he fights that way.
Yeah its heavily implied thats why Dante is the heir. He doesnt want the power so it cant corrupt him like it dies with Virgil
Bulletstorm was such a wonderful little gem.
Nobody wanted that redesign and I never heard anything good about the high level gameplay from hardcore fans of this genre.
Just that the enemy design really didn't match it.
Also, Demon Evade was hella broke.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
He wrote the bayonetta official game guide. Had an interview with platinum games about it. http://platinumgames.com/2014/05/19/interview-with-saurian-dash-part-1/
He knows what he's talking about. When I eventually get the wonderful 101 I will be going straight to his system breakdown guides.
actually you can tell
That "hardcore" fan base can't support the kind of numbers Capcom wants for their games to be considered successful.
And, as someone who had maxed out everything in DMC 3 and 4, finished every difficulty mode with at least S rank, and loved the minutia of the games' systems, DmC was an awesome game that tells a fantastic story, and manages to have a deep combat system that also manages to be accessible for people who aren't crazy like me.
DMC4 is great, DMC3 is bad.
And if you're interested in the gameplay over story, the Revengeance port is fantastic.
Could you expand a bit on why DMC3 is bad? Bad performance, no controller support, low resolutions, etc.
All of the above.
BUT!
Yes there is. It fixes a lot of issues, adds 360 controller support, improves the visuals and performance, and adds some really awesome gameplay features.
http://www.nexusmods.com/devilmaycry3/mods/1/?
And if you just want the fixes the gameplay stuff can be turned off.
Can you link this DmC thing please? Google seems to be failing me.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
So... how well does that mod work? I mean, are we talking "It's still an awful port, but at least it looks pretty and you can just about use a 360 controller" or "Blows the PS2 version out of the water, makes the PC version the definitive DMC3"?
The other upshot to the PC version is that you can just download a 100% complete save and treat the game like a giant combo playground if you don't want to be bothered playing through the whole thing again.
Let's be reasonable here.
DMC3 has issues, but it's not bad. At least, it's not a horrifying stealthy torpedo of suck like DMC2.