Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[World of Darkness] Marginally safer than V:TM conventions.

12122232527

Posts

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Man, nWoD is the new kid compared to like 80% of my collection.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
    DevoutlyApatheticToxAssuranameybes
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    The oldest games I have are 2nd Edition D&D and Vampire the Masquerade, but it's the Revised edition. After that, it's pretty much 2000+ with the 15 different games I have.

    I wish I had more oWoD books, which I got a few from Humble Bundle deal a few months ago. Vampire, especially, is one of my favorite games for lore, but it's also one of the reasons I would never run a VtM game.

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    I've been collecting books long enough that when I first encountered the oWoD, I wrote it off as a Nightlife ripoff.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Rogue The 25th WardRegistered User regular
    I saw a couple old(and I do mean OLD) WoD ones called Shadow Realms at Tate's yesterday while I was being schooled on the crazy factions in Requiem, namely how insane the Invictus' orders are.

    The oldest ones I own besides LotN are probably my clanbooks. Setite, Nosferatu, Malkavian. (The originals too, not the ones with the clan novel covers.)

    GNKPlZ6.png
    The autopsy is the means through which all is revealed.
  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    edited April 1
    I found a copy of Mage 1st ed in a local used book store.

    Bought that shit with a quickness. Wasn't amazing condition, but it was cool to have because I've been a huge fan of Mage from go

    e: I also have every D&D phb except the first (o)D&D one.

    Tox on
    Wishlists! General | Gaming | Comics | Dilige, et quod vis fac
  • MrAnthropyMrAnthropy Court Mathemagician From BeyondRegistered User regular
    So, Onyx Path just put out a call for ideas from fans for eras/game-lines for CoD: Dark Eras 2.

    I pitched the following:
    "A Wilderness of Mirrors" - 1970s-early 80s Washington D.C. - Mage: the Awakening/Demon: the Descent
    The mages who will in later years be known as Project Nightfall are convinced that mysterious forces have infiltrated and seek to control the US government. Images of arcane machinery and a hall of mirrors confounds them. Are their suspicions correct? If so, what is the nature of these forces--Seers? Or something previously unknown? And what about this mystery drives them to eventually seek to take control of the most powerful nation on earth themselves?
    Influences: Le Carre, Various 70s thrillers, the Americans, the CIA career of James Angleton (who was practically a portrait in obsession with mystery to the edge of sanity)

    @jacobkosh @thomamelas @elldren @desc

    "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows." -- George Orwell
    "The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
    I am a noise maker: And They Have A Plan
    ElldrenGrunt's GhostsJacobkoshToxjakobaggerDer Waffle MousHarry Dresden
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Rogue The 25th WardRegistered User regular
    I'm a Mage fan too, y'know. :P Sounds interesting.

    GNKPlZ6.png
    The autopsy is the means through which all is revealed.
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    MrAnthropy wrote: »
    So, Onyx Path just put out a call for ideas from fans for eras/game-lines for CoD: Dark Eras 2.

    I pitched the following:
    "A Wilderness of Mirrors" - 1970s-early 80s Washington D.C. - Mage: the Awakening/Demon: the Descent
    The mages who will in later years be known as Project Nightfall are convinced that mysterious forces have infiltrated and seek to control the US government. Images of arcane machinery and a hall of mirrors confounds them. Are their suspicions correct? If so, what is the nature of these forces--Seers? Or something previously unknown? And what about this mystery drives them to eventually seek to take control of the most powerful nation on earth themselves?
    Influences: Le Carre, Various 70s thrillers, the Americans, the CIA career of James Angleton (who was practically a portrait in obsession with mystery to the edge of sanity)

    @jacobkosh @thomamelas @elldren @desc

    I'd play this as a demon. Or even a Hunter.

  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    MrAnthropy wrote: »
    So, Onyx Path just put out a call for ideas from fans for eras/game-lines for CoD: Dark Eras 2.

    I pitched the following:
    "A Wilderness of Mirrors" - 1970s-early 80s Washington D.C. - Mage: the Awakening/Demon: the Descent
    The mages who will in later years be known as Project Nightfall are convinced that mysterious forces have infiltrated and seek to control the US government. Images of arcane machinery and a hall of mirrors confounds them. Are their suspicions correct? If so, what is the nature of these forces--Seers? Or something previously unknown? And what about this mystery drives them to eventually seek to take control of the most powerful nation on earth themselves?
    Influences: Le Carre, Various 70s thrillers, the Americans, the CIA career of James Angleton (who was practically a portrait in obsession with mystery to the edge of sanity)

    jacobkosh thomamelas elldren desc

    70's spy thriller and a mages love of mystery does seem like it goes together.

    JacobkoshMrAnthropyToxSolarjakobaggerMoridin889Harry Dresden
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    The oldest book I have is a Dark Ages VTM book my girlfriend of the time wrote a bunch of lovely stuff in the margins so I will not part with it as it's a relic of good memories even in these bleak unfun times

    A.jpg
  • MrAnthropyMrAnthropy Court Mathemagician From BeyondRegistered User regular
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    MrAnthropy wrote: »
    So, Onyx Path just put out a call for ideas from fans for eras/game-lines for CoD: Dark Eras 2.

    I pitched the following:
    "A Wilderness of Mirrors" - 1970s-early 80s Washington D.C. - Mage: the Awakening/Demon: the Descent
    The mages who will in later years be known as Project Nightfall are convinced that mysterious forces have infiltrated and seek to control the US government. Images of arcane machinery and a hall of mirrors confounds them. Are their suspicions correct? If so, what is the nature of these forces--Seers? Or something previously unknown? And what about this mystery drives them to eventually seek to take control of the most powerful nation on earth themselves?
    Influences: Le Carre, Various 70s thrillers, the Americans, the CIA career of James Angleton (who was practically a portrait in obsession with mystery to the edge of sanity)

    jacobkosh thomamelas elldren desc

    70's spy thriller and a mages love of mystery does seem like it goes together.

    Angleton's biography gives a fantastic example of what a Guardian of the Veil obsessed with possible seer/demon infiltration of their consillium would look like.

    "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows." -- George Orwell
    "The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
    I am a noise maker: And They Have A Plan
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Rogue The 25th WardRegistered User regular
    The Guardian sourcebook is the best, Mysterium a close second.

    GNKPlZ6.png
    The autopsy is the means through which all is revealed.
    MrAnthropy
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Rogue The 25th WardRegistered User regular
    So uh, is anyone down to start up a NWoD thing? Mage, Hunter, whatever? Changeling might be interesting.

    GNKPlZ6.png
    The autopsy is the means through which all is revealed.
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    I had an idea once for a Changeling game where instead of being kidnapped, or whatever normally happens to people pulled into Arcadia, Changelings are people who made deals with True Faes, in which the Fae in question grants these mortals with talents, resources, or whatever, to have what they want, but after a certain time, the Fae collects the person (or even their first born child) to be servants to the True Fae. Most Changelings are such people who are either running away after their contracts have ended or people who have escaped through the Hedge. I need to reread the setting stuff again to see how much this would change the core concepts from the original setting, but I think it wouldn't do much damage.

  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Rogue The 25th WardRegistered User regular
    I find Changeling fascinating, but it doesn't really inspire me for some reason. I was going to start a chronicle here but I couldn't think of anything past the initial spark. It has everything I like; factions, political machinations, different races and ways of life, I just can't find ideas for it.

    GNKPlZ6.png
    The autopsy is the means through which all is revealed.
    Rchanen
  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    I had an idea once for a Changeling game where instead of being kidnapped, or whatever normally happens to people pulled into Arcadia, Changelings are people who made deals with True Faes, in which the Fae in question grants these mortals with talents, resources, or whatever, to have what they want, but after a certain time, the Fae collects the person (or even their first born child) to be servants to the True Fae. Most Changelings are such people who are either running away after their contracts have ended or people who have escaped through the Hedge. I need to reread the setting stuff again to see how much this would change the core concepts from the original setting, but I think it wouldn't do much damage.

    If you say that changeling are just those taken as a result of contracts made by their parents, then it has almost no impact, aside from the potential dramatic moment of learning your parent(s) ultimately knew this would happen to you.

    Could be interesting. You wouldn't probably have the Fetch be a thing very often, but otherwise it seems interesting.

    I'd be down

    Wishlists! General | Gaming | Comics | Dilige, et quod vis fac
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Yeah, the first born thing wouldn't be the only way (as some people might go "If I never have kids, then they'll never be taken!" to get around that contract) but it would be something interesting to learn and be a personal quest to find their parent(s) and confront them about why they were taken.

  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Rogue The 25th WardRegistered User regular
    edited May 1
    Yeah, the first born thing wouldn't be the only way (as some people might go "If I never have kids, then they'll never be taken!" to get around that contract) but it would be something interesting to learn and be a personal quest to find their parent(s) and confront them about why they were taken.

    It could be an antagonist's scheme that the players become aware of.

    I think the whole thing of Changeling is more your life got taken from you, not your life is about to be taken from you... it does sound interesting though.

    cj iwakura on
    GNKPlZ6.png
    The autopsy is the means through which all is revealed.
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Well, the thing is that in Changeling you got two goals, the first is to find a balance between the life you want and the fae world you are part of. The second is getting away from the True Fae so that you can keep the life you are struggling to balance in the first place. They took you, you escaped, and they want you back.

  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    So I've been rereading Changeling the Lost and I think what turned me away from it originally was the freeholds/Courts. It seems like the writers wanted to make them have that power struggle like Vampires have in Masquerade but the problem is that it doesn't make much sense, at least so far in my reading (pg.39 for those wondering).

    Vampires' struggles come from the Camarilla society and their laws. It's a big secret government that holds power over the vampires of the city and try to keep their existence a secret. That government is built as a pyramid scheme, the higher up the ladder, the more power you have, the less likely you are to be bossed around by someone higher up, but the more likely you are to have enemies.

    Changelings' struggle, however, comes from the fact that everyone of them are broken people who don't fit in the world and are hunted by an immortal antagonist, the True Fae, who want their property back, in some cases. Their society is built as a way to gather together and support and protect people like them, to create a place in the world where the Changelings belong. They also don't have a true power struggle, power between the Courts change seasonally, and there are even freeholds where the King/Queen of the season changes each year too. So far it seems that freeholds are independent of each other, unlike the Vampires where each city has a Prince to answers to Archons and Justicars, who hold the highest power in the Camarilla. I'm so far not seeing any reason for there to be any true conflict among the Courts. Courts just have to wait their turn and they will have power. They really just have to protect their slice of life, keep an eye out for those looking to betray the freehold to True Fae, and find ways to help the Lost find their place. The whole Court thing seems tacked on because Faerie Courts sound so cool in other settings. I'm going to keep reading up on them but I feel like they don't work with the setting as is.

    Zombie Gandhi
  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    I'm not familiar with what conflict you're referring to, but it's worth pointing out that the Lost are some damaged ass people.

    And damaged ass people will do some shit, just because they're damaged. And when a damaged person does some shit to another damaged person, the odds of shit stirring up goes up, because the subject of the shit is less likely to go "this person is damaged and needs me to let some shit go." It's hard to let shit go when you're damaged.

    ...

    damaged.

    Wishlists! General | Gaming | Comics | Dilige, et quod vis fac
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Rogue The 25th WardRegistered User regular
    So I've been rereading Changeling the Lost and I think what turned me away from it originally was the freeholds/Courts. It seems like the writers wanted to make them have that power struggle like Vampires have in Masquerade but the problem is that it doesn't make much sense, at least so far in my reading (pg.39 for those wondering).

    Vampires' struggles come from the Camarilla society and their laws. It's a big secret government that holds power over the vampires of the city and try to keep their existence a secret. That government is built as a pyramid scheme, the higher up the ladder, the more power you have, the less likely you are to be bossed around by someone higher up, but the more likely you are to have enemies.

    Changelings' struggle, however, comes from the fact that everyone of them are broken people who don't fit in the world and are hunted by an immortal antagonist, the True Fae, who want their property back, in some cases. Their society is built as a way to gather together and support and protect people like them, to create a place in the world where the Changelings belong. They also don't have a true power struggle, power between the Courts change seasonally, and there are even freeholds where the King/Queen of the season changes each year too. So far it seems that freeholds are independent of each other, unlike the Vampires where each city has a Prince to answers to Archons and Justicars, who hold the highest power in the Camarilla. I'm so far not seeing any reason for there to be any true conflict among the Courts. Courts just have to wait their turn and they will have power. They really just have to protect their slice of life, keep an eye out for those looking to betray the freehold to True Fae, and find ways to help the Lost find their place. The whole Court thing seems tacked on because Faerie Courts sound so cool in other settings. I'm going to keep reading up on them but I feel like they don't work with the setting as is.

    I kind of feel the same way. Reading about Chronicles that have Court conflicts and story hooks, it all sounds really cool... but it does feel a little out of place somehow. I have a hard time Changelings settling down in a city and establishing a political system. It feels like a giant 'Hi True Fae! WE'RE RIGHT HERE!' beacon.

    GNKPlZ6.png
    The autopsy is the means through which all is revealed.
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    The Fey were definitely portrayed in the material as being foreign enough to miss something like a court in a mortal city if they weren't actively hunting the changelings inside of it. And even then, they weren't exactly working together to the point where they'd give a shit about any escapees that weren't their own for the most part.

    Changeling games definitely have a different vibe than the a lot of the other lines. Their challenges were external, pushing in. Rather than something like Vampire where the herd was trying to push them out.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    So I've been rereading Changeling the Lost and I think what turned me away from it originally was the freeholds/Courts. It seems like the writers wanted to make them have that power struggle like Vampires have in Masquerade but the problem is that it doesn't make much sense, at least so far in my reading (pg.39 for those wondering).

    Vampires' struggles come from the Camarilla society and their laws. It's a big secret government that holds power over the vampires of the city and try to keep their existence a secret. That government is built as a pyramid scheme, the higher up the ladder, the more power you have, the less likely you are to be bossed around by someone higher up, but the more likely you are to have enemies.

    Changelings' struggle, however, comes from the fact that everyone of them are broken people who don't fit in the world and are hunted by an immortal antagonist, the True Fae, who want their property back, in some cases. Their society is built as a way to gather together and support and protect people like them, to create a place in the world where the Changelings belong. They also don't have a true power struggle, power between the Courts change seasonally, and there are even freeholds where the King/Queen of the season changes each year too. So far it seems that freeholds are independent of each other, unlike the Vampires where each city has a Prince to answers to Archons and Justicars, who hold the highest power in the Camarilla. I'm so far not seeing any reason for there to be any true conflict among the Courts. Courts just have to wait their turn and they will have power. They really just have to protect their slice of life, keep an eye out for those looking to betray the freehold to True Fae, and find ways to help the Lost find their place. The whole Court thing seems tacked on because Faerie Courts sound so cool in other settings. I'm going to keep reading up on them but I feel like they don't work with the setting as is.

    I kind of feel the same way. Reading about Chronicles that have Court conflicts and story hooks, it all sounds really cool... but it does feel a little out of place somehow. I have a hard time Changelings settling down in a city and establishing a political system. It feels like a giant 'Hi True Fae! WE'RE RIGHT HERE!' beacon.

    My issue that that the courts seem small, like each freehold has it's own four courts which are different from the courts of another freehold, even if the two are in the same city. It seems super excessive. If the courts were larger, like the Camarilla, or at least a city wide thing, then maybe I might like them more. Also, it seems odd to me to be worrying about inter-social politics when the True Fae are a large threat and your society is one of protecting each other from the True Fae. The Themes seem to conflict too much. I think if I run the game, I'm going to just use the mechanics and rip out most of the Changeling lore involving Courts. Maybe, I'm going to keep reading on.

  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Rogue The 25th WardRegistered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    So I've been rereading Changeling the Lost and I think what turned me away from it originally was the freeholds/Courts. It seems like the writers wanted to make them have that power struggle like Vampires have in Masquerade but the problem is that it doesn't make much sense, at least so far in my reading (pg.39 for those wondering).

    Vampires' struggles come from the Camarilla society and their laws. It's a big secret government that holds power over the vampires of the city and try to keep their existence a secret. That government is built as a pyramid scheme, the higher up the ladder, the more power you have, the less likely you are to be bossed around by someone higher up, but the more likely you are to have enemies.

    Changelings' struggle, however, comes from the fact that everyone of them are broken people who don't fit in the world and are hunted by an immortal antagonist, the True Fae, who want their property back, in some cases. Their society is built as a way to gather together and support and protect people like them, to create a place in the world where the Changelings belong. They also don't have a true power struggle, power between the Courts change seasonally, and there are even freeholds where the King/Queen of the season changes each year too. So far it seems that freeholds are independent of each other, unlike the Vampires where each city has a Prince to answers to Archons and Justicars, who hold the highest power in the Camarilla. I'm so far not seeing any reason for there to be any true conflict among the Courts. Courts just have to wait their turn and they will have power. They really just have to protect their slice of life, keep an eye out for those looking to betray the freehold to True Fae, and find ways to help the Lost find their place. The whole Court thing seems tacked on because Faerie Courts sound so cool in other settings. I'm going to keep reading up on them but I feel like they don't work with the setting as is.

    I kind of feel the same way. Reading about Chronicles that have Court conflicts and story hooks, it all sounds really cool... but it does feel a little out of place somehow. I have a hard time Changelings settling down in a city and establishing a political system. It feels like a giant 'Hi True Fae! WE'RE RIGHT HERE!' beacon.

    My issue that that the courts seem small, like each freehold has it's own four courts which are different from the courts of another freehold, even if the two are in the same city. It seems super excessive. If the courts were larger, like the Camarilla, or at least a city wide thing, then maybe I might like them more. Also, it seems odd to me to be worrying about inter-social politics when the True Fae are a large threat and your society is one of protecting each other from the True Fae. The Themes seem to conflict too much. I think if I run the game, I'm going to just use the mechanics and rip out most of the Changeling lore involving Courts. Maybe, I'm going to keep reading on.

    Courts can very much still be a thing, maybe it's just not established in your chronicle. Maybe the local Fae think that they're a bad idea(and rightly so).

    GNKPlZ6.png
    The autopsy is the means through which all is revealed.
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    So I've been rereading Changeling the Lost and I think what turned me away from it originally was the freeholds/Courts. It seems like the writers wanted to make them have that power struggle like Vampires have in Masquerade but the problem is that it doesn't make much sense, at least so far in my reading (pg.39 for those wondering).

    Vampires' struggles come from the Camarilla society and their laws. It's a big secret government that holds power over the vampires of the city and try to keep their existence a secret. That government is built as a pyramid scheme, the higher up the ladder, the more power you have, the less likely you are to be bossed around by someone higher up, but the more likely you are to have enemies.

    Changelings' struggle, however, comes from the fact that everyone of them are broken people who don't fit in the world and are hunted by an immortal antagonist, the True Fae, who want their property back, in some cases. Their society is built as a way to gather together and support and protect people like them, to create a place in the world where the Changelings belong. They also don't have a true power struggle, power between the Courts change seasonally, and there are even freeholds where the King/Queen of the season changes each year too. So far it seems that freeholds are independent of each other, unlike the Vampires where each city has a Prince to answers to Archons and Justicars, who hold the highest power in the Camarilla. I'm so far not seeing any reason for there to be any true conflict among the Courts. Courts just have to wait their turn and they will have power. They really just have to protect their slice of life, keep an eye out for those looking to betray the freehold to True Fae, and find ways to help the Lost find their place. The whole Court thing seems tacked on because Faerie Courts sound so cool in other settings. I'm going to keep reading up on them but I feel like they don't work with the setting as is.

    I kind of feel the same way. Reading about Chronicles that have Court conflicts and story hooks, it all sounds really cool... but it does feel a little out of place somehow. I have a hard time Changelings settling down in a city and establishing a political system. It feels like a giant 'Hi True Fae! WE'RE RIGHT HERE!' beacon.

    My issue that that the courts seem small, like each freehold has it's own four courts which are different from the courts of another freehold, even if the two are in the same city. It seems super excessive. If the courts were larger, like the Camarilla, or at least a city wide thing, then maybe I might like them more. Also, it seems odd to me to be worrying about inter-social politics when the True Fae are a large threat and your society is one of protecting each other from the True Fae. The Themes seem to conflict too much. I think if I run the game, I'm going to just use the mechanics and rip out most of the Changeling lore involving Courts. Maybe, I'm going to keep reading on.

    Courts can very much still be a thing, maybe it's just not established in your chronicle. Maybe the local Fae think that they're a bad idea(and rightly so).

    I still want to use the concept of Courts, it's just that I'm not sure how I want to use them. I keep thinking of the Light and Dark Fae from Lost Girl or the Winter and Summer Courts of The Dresden Files, but those are Courts of True Fae, more or less, where the Lost Courts are made up of Lost trying to hide from True Fae.

  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    So looking at the stuff about the Courts on the wiki, I think they are kinda like the Vampire Clans and the Freehold is the Camarilla, just on smaller scale. Still seems odd but it's got some gears turning.

  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Rogue The 25th WardRegistered User regular
    I think the Kiths are more like clans... though the Courts kind of are too, sort of like Mage paths and orders.

    GNKPlZ6.png
    The autopsy is the means through which all is revealed.
    Grunt's GhostsTox
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    I think the Kiths are more like clans... though the Courts kind of are too, sort of like Mage paths and orders.

    Yes, as in they are powers within each Seeming, but clans in Vampire are also social where Kiths aren't.

  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Rogue The 25th WardRegistered User regular
    edited May 2
    Also fun to point out that Changeling was meant to be one-and-done, but it was so successful that it inspired all those crazy supplement books.

    And cross post from the V:TM thread, a new sourcebook on the Bloodlines:

    http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/207392/V20-Lore-of-the-Bloodlines
    207392-thumb140.jpg

    Covers the Baali, Samedi, Daughters of Cacophony, Salubri, True Brujah, etc.

    cj iwakura on
    GNKPlZ6.png
    The autopsy is the means through which all is revealed.
    Tox
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    So I think I have an idea on how I want to deal with Courts and freeholds.

    So Courts are large, international things. There is one King or Queen for each Season, which is called the Grand Court. They stay in power until death, they step down, get captured by the True Fae, or do something that demands them to be stripped from their title, like the last Autumn King who broke his Contract with Autumn itself and basically depowered all Changelings with that same Contract. The current Queen of Autumn has restored it but it's not as it was...

    In places where Arcadia and the mortal world seem to have strong ties, there are usually Changeling communities, which have seasonal courts called the Lesser Courts, which are ruled by Lords of Seasons. While the King/Queen is responsible with dealing with Changeling problems on global scale, Lords normally deal with a small area, a city, town, county, ect. There are usually four Lesser Courts in an area but not always. Small towns might have only one or two or even no court. Places with hardly no seasonal shifts, like deserts or top of tall mountains, may have only one court that rules the area all year long, or may have non-seasonal courts, like Hawaii's Land and Sea Courts, or much of Arizona with it's Day and Night Courts. The Lesser Courts are responsible with dealing with Changelings who have just escaped and keeping their communities safe. They do come to the aid of other Courts and Courtless Changelings, but they all have their own interest and ways to deal with the looming threat of the True Fae.

    Freeholds are just places where a Court or individual have made to be a safe place. Depending on what that place is, it could be permanent or temporary. It could be someone's house, a place of business, a park, a lake, a cave, sewers, under a bridge, anywhere. Most Courts like having freeholds that feel close to their season while Courtless freeholds are more like homes, hotels, apartments, or other places where a newly escaped Changeling can rest for a long time and use to start their new life.

    cj iwakuraRchanen
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Question: Are mages still human? Like I know vampires, werewolves, and changelings kinda don't see themselves as humans, but what about mages?

  • The Hanged ManThe Hanged Man Be cool, Gurney. Registered User regular
    Question: Are mages still human? Like I know vampires, werewolves, and changelings kinda don't see themselves as humans, but what about mages?

    With either NWoD or OWoD Mages, you'd have to be getting into some pretty esoteric classification shit to call them Inhuman. Biologically and psychologically they're still clearly human (until they start tampering with those states). Spiritually, they're basically operating with the same set of Soul components that a normal human has, but some have been activated that are normally dormant.

    TUMBLR: canstthoudrawoutleviathan.tumblr.com (mostly tabletop RPG anecdotes & art)
    TWITTER: @DesertLeviathan, PSN: LeviathanAscends, 3DS FRIEND CODE: 1590-4800-2407
    0c9YdeS.png
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Question: Are mages still human? Like I know vampires, werewolves, and changelings kinda don't see themselves as humans, but what about mages?

    With either NWoD or OWoD Mages, you'd have to be getting into some pretty esoteric classification shit to call them Inhuman. Biologically and psychologically they're still clearly human (until they start tampering with those states). Spiritually, they're basically operating with the same set of Soul components that a normal human has, but some have been activated that are normally dormant.

    So a mage could be turned into a vampire or changeling?

  • The Hanged ManThe Hanged Man Be cool, Gurney. Registered User regular
    edited May 4
    Question: Are mages still human? Like I know vampires, werewolves, and changelings kinda don't see themselves as humans, but what about mages?

    With either NWoD or OWoD Mages, you'd have to be getting into some pretty esoteric classification shit to call them Inhuman. Biologically and psychologically they're still clearly human (until they start tampering with those states). Spiritually, they're basically operating with the same set of Soul components that a normal human has, but some have been activated that are normally dormant.

    So a mage could be turned into a vampire or changeling?

    I'll speak more to the OWoD, because I know it better. A Mage can become a Vampire, but they won't be a Mage any more. At best, if they have a generous DM, they may be able to get some kind of EXP credit for their Spheres, Arete, and other Mage traits, and cash those in for dots of Thaumaturgy in paths that are similar to their old Mage Paradigm. This is what happened to the Tremere elders, for example.

    In the OWoD, Awakening as a Mage required you to start with a baseline human soul, so Changelings who were born with Faerie Souls hiding in human bodies would be ineligible to Awaken. And Mages who had already Awakened obviously would be ineligible to become Changelings, because it's already been confirmed that they do not have a Faerie Soul. The exception in that case was for recent exiles like the Sidhe, who weren't being reincarnated into human bodies, but were rather fleeing Arcadia and stealing whatever human bodies they could get hold of. Theoretically, a Sidhe or other Arcadian Refugee could do their body snatcher routine on a Mage just like any other Human, although a given Mage may have capabilities that would enable them to resist this. In any case, the newly-incarnated Sidhe would not have access to Mage Powers, the Mage's spirit would be cast out to wander the Dreaming, and would be deep in "make it up yourself" territory if the Storyteller didn't just declare their part in the narrative over.

    In the NWoD, if I recall correctly, an individual can only be subject to one supernatural template at a time, and generally once you acquire one, you are now immune to all others. But in any case where a new supernatural template can be applied to someone who already has one, the new one overwrites the old template. In that context, I'd bet that Vampirism could sever a Mage's connection to the watchtowers, but being abducted to Arcadia could not, just because "Vampires First, Changelings Last" has tended to be the order of operations the developers have favored. I don't remember for sure though, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they just said that templates that can be willfully imposed, such as Vampirism, are just fatally incompatible with other templates, so that a Mage who got bit would just whither and die because of some kind of mystic feedback or whatever.

    The Hanged Man on
    TUMBLR: canstthoudrawoutleviathan.tumblr.com (mostly tabletop RPG anecdotes & art)
    TWITTER: @DesertLeviathan, PSN: LeviathanAscends, 3DS FRIEND CODE: 1590-4800-2407
    0c9YdeS.png
    Magic Pink
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    In oWoD, yes but they lose their magic powers. The Tremere clan were in fact originally mages of House Tremere of the Order of Hermes.

    In nWoD, no, the process kills them, the Embrace fails and the mage just dies.

  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Ok, I was trying to figure out what kind of interactions mages might have with changelings or True Fae, seeing that the Autumn Court stuff in Changeling the Lost says they sometimes deal with Mages, which feels like those two groups play in the same playground but in different ways.

  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    If I remember correctly, in OWoD, the second sight ability that imbued Hunters have would show mages as different from normal humans.

    Which is like, you know, means whatever you want it mean. Hunters are racist against mages.

    weapon_rex.jpg
  • The Hanged ManThe Hanged Man Be cool, Gurney. Registered User regular
    Delduwath wrote: »
    If I remember correctly, in OWoD, the second sight ability that imbued Hunters have would show mages as different from normal humans.

    Which is like, you know, means whatever you want it mean. Hunters are racist against mages.

    Hunter kind of occupied its own personal bubble of canon that was pretty incompatible with everyone else. When a Hunter game encountered Mages, they really weren't encountering the Mages from the Mage Books, they were encountering the Mages from the Hunter Antagonist Appendix, who had some broad similarities. A ton of their stuff about other splats ignored or rewrote pretty explicit stuff in the books of those other splats about themselves.

    This was the case with all OWoD games of course, but the nature of Hunter, using the other splats as primary antagonists, really highlighted that fact.

    TUMBLR: canstthoudrawoutleviathan.tumblr.com (mostly tabletop RPG anecdotes & art)
    TWITTER: @DesertLeviathan, PSN: LeviathanAscends, 3DS FRIEND CODE: 1590-4800-2407
    0c9YdeS.png
  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    Delduwath wrote: »
    If I remember correctly, in OWoD, the second sight ability that imbued Hunters have would show mages as different from normal humans.

    Which is like, you know, means whatever you want it mean. Hunters are racist against mages.

    Hunter kind of occupied its own personal bubble of canon that was pretty incompatible with everyone else. When a Hunter game encountered Mages, they really weren't encountering the Mages from the Mage Books, they were encountering the Mages from the Hunter Antagonist Appendix, who had some broad similarities. A ton of their stuff about other splats ignored or rewrote pretty explicit stuff in the books of those other splats about themselves.

    This was the case with all OWoD games of course, but the nature of Hunter, using the other splats as primary antagonists, really highlighted that fact.
    Yeah, that's fair enough.

    weapon_rex.jpg
Sign In or Register to comment.