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[World of Darkness] Red Star shining at WW HQ, heads to roll

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Posts

  • never dienever die Registered User regular
    It will be interesting to see how they thread the needle, as they are also going to be competing with Onyx Path, who is running still with nWOD 2nd edition, and uses a modified version of the storyteller system. If they are too similar you might run into the issue of "why pick this up?" among your players. You might get some people who dropped off from oWOD to nWOD, but I feel like that will not get them as many players as they want.

  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Yeah, Chronicles of Darkness is going to continue. At least that was originally the plan.

    So the new World of Darkness will likely be significantly different from nWoD. (I should note White Wolf owns the Storytelling engine that nWoD uses, but is licensing to Onyx Path.)

    Ardent on
    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    I think they could boil the old storyteller system way, way down and add in some narrative elements liberally stolen from the it games of the modern zeitgeist and probably produce something pretty compelling.

    I also think that their willingness to do so is probably based on exactly how many neckbeards are involved in the process, and/or how much external neckbeard backlash they're willing to endure from the katanas and trenchcoats crowd.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    Uh... what is PbtA?

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Uh... what is PbtA?

    Powered by the Apocalypse, according to the googles.

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    It's the engine that is used for Apocalypse World, Urban Shadows, MonsterHearts, etc. 2d6+[attribute], beat 7 or fail, 10 or something goes wrong. Very narrative system with a ton of player control. It's been ported into basically every genre at this point, with good results.

    I was putting it forward as an example of a more modern system that could be imitated.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Ardent wrote: »
    PbtA is a design award winner several times over. It's difficult to take someone seriously arguing that Storyteller is better than it.

    Personal preference, however, is entirely subjective.

    The problem with this argument is that WoD and the Storytelling/Storyteller system existed long before most of those awards that PbtA earned even existed. The two awards I see from Wikipedia that PbtA got are the Gen Con EN World RPG Awards which started in 2001 and the Indie RPG Awards which started in 2002. Vampire the Masquerade started in 1991. And nWoD core won Origins Gamers' Choice Award in 2004, so both are award winning systems.

    Grunt's Ghosts on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    It's the engine that is used for Apocalypse World, Urban Shadows, MonsterHearts, etc. 2d6+[attribute], beat 7 or fail, 10 or something goes wrong. Very narrative system with a ton of player control. It's been ported into basically every genre at this point, with good results.

    I was putting it forward as an example of a more modern system that could be imitated.

    Never even heard of it. I guess it could work, but I'm happy with the current method(s).

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
    Lanlaorn
  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    Ardent wrote: »
    PbtA is a design award winner several times over. It's difficult to take someone seriously arguing that Storyteller is better than it.

    Personal preference, however, is entirely subjective.

    The problem with this argument is that WoD and the Storytelling/Storyteller system existed long before most of those awards that PbtA earned even existed. The two awards I see from Wikipedia that PbtA got are the Gen Con EN World RPG Awards which started in 2001 and the Indie RPG Awards which started in 2002. Vampire the Masquerade started in 1991. And nWoD core won Origins Gamers' Choice Award in 2004, so both are award winning systems.
    Storytelling is a better engine than Storyteller, but that's not saying a whole lot. The Callies are notoriously biased towards financially successful properties, at that, given that its one of the judgment criteria.

    Gonna be blunt here: there's no chance they're using Storytelling. The principles have made their dislike for it very clear; they bought the property in part to move away from that engine (and in part to keep the MET license alive, and in part to make video games).

    Onyx Path has Storypath, which avoids many of the foibles of the Storyteller-based games and, heh, includes a lot of the new narrative game tricks. Which means I'm confident White Wolf likely avoid that course as well, since the last thing they want is a reverse-licensing problem.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Ardent wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Ardent wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    I'm gonna laugh if the nnWoD is PbtA or something.
    Why? It would be a fundamentally better game than the old Storyteller-based games.

    In your opinion. If it was PbtA I'd never buy another book by them, so I hope they don't go down that route

    No, it'd objectively be a better game.

    Whether it's the game someone wants is subjective.

    lol yeah alright mate, if the objective criteria is "something Ardent has made up in his head" sure

    Like whether a game wins awards has got shit all to do with how much I enjoy it

    Solar on
    Lanlaorn
  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Ardent wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Ardent wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    I'm gonna laugh if the nnWoD is PbtA or something.
    Why? It would be a fundamentally better game than the old Storyteller-based games.

    In your opinion. If it was PbtA I'd never buy another book by them, so I hope they don't go down that route

    No, it'd objectively be a better game.

    Whether it's the game someone wants is subjective.

    lol yeah alright mate, if the objective criteria is "something Ardent has made up in his head" sure

    Like whether a game wins awards has got shit all to do with how much I enjoy it
    No, objectively better is when a game plays exactly as written without requiring significant and in some cases constant errata.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    In your opinion

  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    In your opinion
    I'm sorry you feel that way about facts.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    yeah alright then

  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Ardent wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Ardent wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Ardent wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    I'm gonna laugh if the nnWoD is PbtA or something.
    Why? It would be a fundamentally better game than the old Storyteller-based games.

    In your opinion. If it was PbtA I'd never buy another book by them, so I hope they don't go down that route

    No, it'd objectively be a better game.

    Whether it's the game someone wants is subjective.

    lol yeah alright mate, if the objective criteria is "something Ardent has made up in his head" sure

    Like whether a game wins awards has got shit all to do with how much I enjoy it
    No, objectively better is when a game plays exactly as written without requiring significant and in some cases constant errata.

    PbtA is like a simple engine in complex, moving parts compared to most games. It's not hard to have the game play exactly as written when the rules are summed up to "roll dice, 6 and below is a fail, 7-9 is success with consequences (which then the GM goes to a list of GM moves and picks one to enact), and 10+ is complete success."

    It's like saying that a one speed bike is better than a motorcycle because you don't have to gas it up or worry about engine wear and tear. But, for me, I know I'm not seeing myself enjoying the bike as much as that sweet crotch rocket on the open road.

    LanlaornCalica
  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    It's like saying that a one speed bike is better than a motorcycle because you don't have to gas it up or worry about engine wear and tear. But, for me, I know I'm not seeing myself enjoying the bike as much as that sweet crotch rocket on the open road.
    I had a BMW.

    I much prefer the Nissan that isn't in the garage for a week every two months. I suspect most people would feel the same way.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Ardent wrote: »
    It's like saying that a one speed bike is better than a motorcycle because you don't have to gas it up or worry about engine wear and tear. But, for me, I know I'm not seeing myself enjoying the bike as much as that sweet crotch rocket on the open road.
    I had a BMW.

    I much prefer the Nissan that isn't in the garage for a week every two months. I suspect most people would feel the same way.

    This explains everything. Yamaha, Harley Davidson, or Kawasaki. Don't ever waste your money on a BMW bike. It's the Rifts of the motorcycling world.

    ameybes
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Ardent wrote: »

    Gonna be blunt here: there's no chance they're using Storytelling. The principles have made their dislike for it very clear; they bought the property in part to move away from that engine (and in part to keep the MET license alive, and in part to make video games).

    Onyx Path has Storypath, which avoids many of the foibles of the Storyteller-based games and, heh, includes a lot of the new narrative game tricks. Which means I'm confident White Wolf likely avoid that course as well, since the last thing they want is a reverse-licensing problem.

    All of this is new information for me. I had pretty much just figured we were going to get a fanboy rehash of (possibly even oWoD) storyteller.

    What is Storypath? I haven't had any contact with Onyx Path at all, so I'm not sure what they did with the system. My last WoD book I bought off the shelf a Borders.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    What is Storypath? I haven't had any contact with Onyx Path at all, so I'm not sure what they did with the system. My last WoD book I bought off the shelf a Borders.
    Storypath is the engine they developed for Trinity and Scion, properties they actually own.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Ardent wrote: »
    It's like saying that a one speed bike is better than a motorcycle because you don't have to gas it up or worry about engine wear and tear. But, for me, I know I'm not seeing myself enjoying the bike as much as that sweet crotch rocket on the open road.
    I had a BMW.

    I much prefer the Nissan that isn't in the garage for a week every two months. I suspect most people would feel the same way.

    This explains everything. Yamaha, Harley Davidson, or Kawasaki. Don't ever waste your money on a BMW bike. It's the Rifts of the motorcycling world.

    My grandpa spent his entire adult life fixing motorcycles. He hated Harley Davidsons the most, because he never fixed them first hand. He always had to tutor their owners on how to do it, because they broke down every time out.

    When we used to take road trips when I was a kid, he'd point at every motorcycle along the side of the road and say; "there goes a Harley."

    They migh have turned around in the last 20 years or so, but they've traditionally just been a shit machine for staying on the road and off the trailer (on the way to the garage).

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    My dad swears by Honda 500s for daily riders. Harleys are for the weekends when you've got time for wrenching.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Grandpa would only buy Hondas for his own use. He and grandma had a series of matching bikes over the years. He also approved of Yamaha bikes (mine was a Yamaha).

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Ardent wrote: »
    It's like saying that a one speed bike is better than a motorcycle because you don't have to gas it up or worry about engine wear and tear. But, for me, I know I'm not seeing myself enjoying the bike as much as that sweet crotch rocket on the open road.
    I had a BMW.

    I much prefer the Nissan that isn't in the garage for a week every two months. I suspect most people would feel the same way.

    This explains everything. Yamaha, Harley Davidson, or Kawasaki. Don't ever waste your money on a BMW bike. It's the Rifts of the motorcycling world.

    My grandpa spent his entire adult life fixing motorcycles. He hated Harley Davidsons the most, because he never fixed them first hand. He always had to tutor their owners on how to do it, because they broke down every time out.

    When we used to take road trips when I was a kid, he'd point at every motorcycle along the side of the road and say; "there goes a Harley."

    They migh have turned around in the last 20 years or so, but they've traditionally just been a shit machine for staying on the road and off the trailer (on the way to the garage).

    My dad had a Harley for years until he died. He rode it to work, out on the weekends, down to the bar, pretty much anytime he didn't need to pack up the car full of kids, he used the Harley.

    I can remember it being broke once in those years. The problem with Harleys (and really a lot of bikes in general) is the owners. They either don't know shit and try to "mod" or "upgrade" it, which then does extra wear, or they ride the damn thing rough as fuck because "it's a bike lol", or just fail to properly maintain it like you should any machine, be it a car, a bike, a computer, ect. You show your bike just a little love and not being an asshat on it and it will never fail you.

    Except for BMW. Those damn bikes are cheaply made and are built to fail just so you have to keep replacing parts every few years. I've yet to hear someone ever praise their BMW bike after having it for a year or more.

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    I wonder how much the old system informed the fiction. Because it definitely wasn't done in reverse. Off the top of my head, the bright line between generations really feels like a game construct that grew into setting information.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    So... White Wolf is making a Werewolf: The Apocalypse game.

    Details Here!

    Nyhtcj iwakura
  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    Cyanide is probably the best development studio FHI works with, so that's something.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    WtA was a bit... one note. It was a fun note, but still.

    It'll be interesting to see how they make that into a videogame without disappointing everyone that loved V:TM:B:C.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    WtA was a bit... one note. It was a fun note, but still.

    It'll be interesting to see how they make that into a videogame without disappointing everyone that loved V:TM:B:C.

    What's the "C"? I'm assuming you meant Vampire: the Masquerade: Bloodlines.

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    :Colons

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    :Colons
    I don't have very much hope this will be a groundbreaking game or anything. I suspect it will be a semi-open world slasher RPG with a decent but not spectacular plotline about Pentex being an evil corporation.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure I stole that joke from @cj iwakura 's G&T thread, btw.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    Sounds great, it's ripe for a good RPG.

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited March 2017
    A friend let me borrow a ton of WoD books(well, I cherry picked ones I wanted to look at), and Chicago is really interesting. I love how it has a massive section for each of the Big Three.

    MSbJhAu.jpg
    (Pay no mind to the bottom two.)

    And of course the Guardians of the Veil run Chicago.


    Really excited to read Witch Finders, even though it feels like heresy for a Mage fan.

    cj iwakura on
    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
    Tox
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    Witch Finders is absolutely bonkers. The variety of ways Hunters came up with to combat Mages should give anyone with a fear of Banishers the cold shivers.

    They have a faction that believe Mages are basically killing Mother Earth and have decided to go all-out ecoterrorism to stop them.

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
    Ardent
  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    Yep, the old material was great. Broken, but great.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    It's already old material now? Eerie.

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    It's already old material now? Eerie.

    Released September 2008

  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    It's already old material now? Eerie.

    Released September 2008

    Yeeeesh.

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    It's already old material now? Eerie.

    Released September 2008

    Yeeeesh.
    No worries man. I have a first edition printing of Vampire the Masquerade that I actually played with.

    You get used to being Old Man Winter of gaming.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
    DevoutlyApatheticcj iwakuraOptimusZedToxAssuranameybes
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    Ardent wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    It's already old material now? Eerie.

    Released September 2008

    Yeeeesh.
    No worries man. I have a first edition printing of Vampire the Masquerade that I actually played with.

    You get used to being Old Man Winter of gaming.

    The oldest book I have is my V:TM Laws of the Night from Tampa, which I bought in 2000.
    It looks it.

    That's what I consider old, heh. Anything NWoD is like... just seasoned?

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
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