[World of Darkness] Red Star shining at WW HQ, heads to roll

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  • Jack HobbesJack Hobbes Registered User
    edited June 2011
    I've got an idea for a massive WoD crossover taking place in a large city (let's say Hartford) that I've been kicking around for a while.

    The basic premise is that in the late 1950s, the local Consilium came to an understanding with the local Freehold, a local Werewolf pack, and a local Sin-Eater krewe. After a meeting of the minds, the various supernaturals came to the conclusion that they had more in common than they didn't, and that the best way for everyone to get what they wanted was to pool resources. They agreed to control local politics only to the point where outside influences couldn't, and they agreed that the common people had to be protected. They christened the agreement (and themselves) the Accord.

    The first thing to go were the Vampires. Accorders broke the spine of the community and hunted them down like dogs in a matter of weeks. The vast majority were put to the torch, but a good few (mostly opportunistic Carthians and Ordo Dracul) played quisling and sold out their fellows in exchange for a place in new order. After that, the Accord's plans were threefold.

    First, they would help assist each other however they can in hunting down their enemies. When the Werewolves took to the spirit world to hunt down a dangerous and gluttonous murder spirit. they brought with them Thrysus mages. When the Bound tracked down a particularly vicious abmortal, they did so armed with Changeling Tokens and Vampire blood magic. When the True Fae The Lord of Fallen Leaves came knocking, Changelings fought back with Promethean allies.

    Second, in order to best protect the population, the Accord had to turn Hartford into a modern day Here Be Dragons. As far as the supernatural community was concerned, people that went to Hartford were never heard from again. Visitors were either absorbed into the community, mindwiped and sent on their way, or simply slain on sight. In the 1970's, for example, the Pure Confederacy got tired of wondering what was going on in Hartford and sent a contingent of 300 Werewolves, who proceeded to engage in a campaign of kidnapping, torture, and humiliation against the local Uratha. Eventually, the Pure received a notice that they had been challenged to mass combat in the Hisil, along with a time and a date. Thinking they had a clear numbers advantage, the Pure brought along with them every Werewolf the had, along with their massive totem allies.

    They were expecting a slaughter, and they got one. Instead of a modest motley of Werewolf packs, they found that they were staring down the full force of the Accord. Every Mage, every Sin-Eater, every Vampire and Changeling and Werewolf in fighting condition was there, along with a passing Promethean thong. Every last Pure was put down as their totems were blasted apart by Awakened magic. As far as the Confederacy was concerned, their contingent just upped and vanished.

    Third, to dissuade Hunters, all evidence of supernatural activity had to be suppressed. The Hunters thing that Hartford is a city with no supernaturals whatsoever. The Accord is quick to jump on Hunter red flags that pop up; Belial's Brood and slashers are to be taken care of quickly, before they can arouse mortal suspicion.

    The scary part? It worked. The Accord ruled Hartford for 50 years, and while there were some hiccups here and there, things ran as smoothly as they could in the World of Darkness.

    The problem is that the old guard are dying off. The original founding members of the Accord are now few in number, and while they're still paragons of morality and cooperation, it's only a matter of time before they're gone. Moreover, the younger generation (that grew up with the Accord in place and doesn't remember what it was like before it) doesn't see the point of cooperating with other supernaturals, so tensions are running high. Plus, with the cracks starting to show, some of the Vampires that jumped ship half a century ago are poised to take back their city.

    Were that not enough, other forces are at work against Hartford. The Seer of the Throne have been engaging in a cold war of espionage and sabotage with the Accord, and only now are they starting to gain some ground. The Pure are done licking their wounds from what happened in the 70's and are ready to try again, only this time they're going to test the waters first by sending in smaller groups to scout out supernatural activity. Perhaps most frightening, a Cheiron executive has purchased a private loft in Hartford as his new primary residence, thinking that it's a city free of supernatural influence where he can relax. If he finds out about what's really going on, it will be war on the streets.

    The mood is co-operation. Nothing can really get done without people working together towards a common goal, and with enough luck truly amazing things can be accomplished. At the same time, the theme is entropy: the alliance is falling apart, and what will the PCs do if their respective organizations decide that it's time to cut off ties with each other?

    Will I ever run this? Probably not. It's fun to think about, though.

    Jack Hobbes on
    ironzerg wrote: »
    I have a rule zero-zero at my table. If you're debating anything about the rules, and your argument starts with something like "...it just doesn't seem realistic that...", it's automatically invalid.
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Sounds wild. And something you could easily run a 10-15 player game off of.

    cj iwakura on
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  • TunosTunos Registered User
    edited June 2011
    I'd play!

    Tunos on
  • WubWub Registered User
    edited June 2011
    That sounds completely nuts, I can dig it. Turning it in to something cohesive and playable would likely be a pain, but if you could pull it off... words fail me as to describe how bad ass it would be.

    Wub on
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  • Abysmal LynxAbysmal Lynx Registered User
    edited June 2011
    I often dream of ridiculously huge crossover games.

    You should run it.

    Abysmal Lynx on
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  • MoosehatIVMoosehatIV Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I would definitely be down to try something like that. It sounds awesome beyond reason.

    MoosehatIV on
  • TunosTunos Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Give me a reason to make a Sin-Eater or a Promethean...GIVE ME A REASON!

    Tunos on
  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I'm obviously just too old school, but I really like Mage/Werewolf/Vamp crossovers.

    Delmain on
    syndalis wrote: »
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  • MoosehatIVMoosehatIV Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Just a few cross overs are better. The more you add the more confusing things start to get. Especially with the whole mage/arcadia thing.

    MoosehatIV on
  • darksteeldarksteel Registered User
    edited June 2011
    I ran a crossover campaign with like 13 people in it once, half of them Mages, half of them Vampires. We kept it up for three months during which we had some of the better stories we've ever shared. It was very political, with a few spurts of violent action, but mostly it was roleplay all the way. But it was still so fucking tiring to keep track of everyone, trying to give them a character arc, equal time to develop and grow their character, and give them cool NPCs to bounce their character off of. It taxed me about as much as writing a book.

    So, I only have one really, really good experience with crossover games. But I wouldn't run one again for a very long time. If that makes sense.

    darksteel on
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  • KayKay What we need... Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I think some of the most fun I've had in oWoD was in that Vancouver based Werewolf/Vampire crossover story. We had a really good setup for it, and it was just really well done.

    Then again, I was about 16 at the time so rose-tinted glasses and all that.

    Kay on
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  • AmiguAmigu Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    For someone who is totally unknowledgeable about this game system beyond the basic fluff... how does a game of WoD play out compared to a game of D&D 4th edition?

    Amigu on
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Amigu wrote: »
    For someone who is totally unknowledgeable about this game system beyond the basic fluff... how does a game of WoD play out compared to a game of D&D 4th edition?
    Very, very differently.

    I haven't played any nWoD, but oWoD was very RP heavy and intrigue-interaction based. Not that 4E can't do those things, but that's not the core purpose behind the system.

    WoD is a lot angstier than 4E games tend to be. And a lot less tactical when you actually come to combat. There are more unfixable existential crises that just never get resolved, whereas D&D in general is about resolving those sorts of things through force of arms.

    It's a very different vibe.

    OptimusZed on
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  • GrogGrog My sword is only steel in a useful shape.Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Sounds interesting. May have a look for the books

    Grog on
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  • AmiguAmigu Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Amigu wrote: »
    For someone who is totally unknowledgeable about this game system beyond the basic fluff... how does a game of WoD play out compared to a game of D&D 4th edition?
    Very, very differently.

    I haven't played any nWoD, but oWoD was very RP heavy and intrigue-interaction based. Not that 4E can't do those things, but that's not the core purpose behind the system.

    WoD is a lot angstier than 4E games tend to be. And a lot less tactical when you actually come to combat. There are more unfixable existential crises that just never get resolved, whereas D&D in general is about resolving those sorts of things through force of arms.

    It's a very different vibe.

    Interesting. Is there mechanical back up for this (ie more non combat skills) or is it more just the vibe players bring to the table?

    Amigu on
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Amigu wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Amigu wrote: »
    For someone who is totally unknowledgeable about this game system beyond the basic fluff... how does a game of WoD play out compared to a game of D&D 4th edition?
    Very, very differently.

    I haven't played any nWoD, but oWoD was very RP heavy and intrigue-interaction based. Not that 4E can't do those things, but that's not the core purpose behind the system.

    WoD is a lot angstier than 4E games tend to be. And a lot less tactical when you actually come to combat. There are more unfixable existential crises that just never get resolved, whereas D&D in general is about resolving those sorts of things through force of arms.

    It's a very different vibe.

    Interesting. Is there mechanical back up for this (ie more non combat skills) or is it more just the vibe players bring to the table?
    There are more non-combat skills, and they're divided into groups and such. Combat skills are actually right there with them, but they are relatively few and far between (Brawl, Weapon, Dodge and Firearms are the only ones, I think). And combat is just like any other action where you're making opposed checks, you just deal wounds at the end of a successful action instead of gaining some other type of success. The rules are really leveraged toward inventive solutions to problems rather than direct combat. It's kind of like AD&D if every character were a slightly different kind of Wizard.

    OptimusZed on
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    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • gtrmpgtrmp Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Also, 4E is designed in part around making sure that characters are balanced against one another. WoD... not so much.

    gtrmp on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    WoD combat can be messy, but with enough elements at play, it can end pretty quick, which you usually want. (The ST sure does, anyway.)

    cj iwakura on
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  • Jack HobbesJack Hobbes Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Combat in WoD is brutal, messy, and over quickly. Since it is a system where a character with lots of XP will have HP and Defense maybe two to three points higher than a fresh character, things like lucky initiative rolls, who has the element of surprise, and clever tactics win the day more often.

    Moreover, knocking people out is generally much more common than killing them, because murder pings most Karma Meters. Werewolves can kill humans as long as they can justify it, Sin-Eaters can murder as long as it is a "clean" death, and Hunters can modify their codes on the fly, but by and large murder is a large no no. That said, the different splats have various "mooks" that don't count: Vampires have Larvae, Werewolves have Hosts, Prometheans have Pandorans, Changelings have Hobgoblins, Sin-Eaters have roughly 95% of the things that reside in the Underworld, and Mages have the various ghosts, spirits, and Abyssal entities they encounter on a daily basis.

    Damage comes in three types: bashing, lethal, aggravated. Bashing takes hour to heal, while lethal takes a day and aggravated takes a week. Most splats have a way of healing damage quickly, but healing aggravated damage is always taxing. This means that if your group comes up against an enemy or group of enemies that can deal aggravated damage (such as a Vampire with Claws of the Wild or a Werewolf with Savage Rending), there's a good chance that one or more members of your party will be taken out of commission for weeks (in-game).

    Jack Hobbes on
    ironzerg wrote: »
    I have a rule zero-zero at my table. If you're debating anything about the rules, and your argument starts with something like "...it just doesn't seem realistic that...", it's automatically invalid.
  • MoosehatIVMoosehatIV Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I love the damage system because it is so different from DnD. It changes the standoff scene between the two games immensely.

    DnD
    "Look out! He has a crossbow!"
    "So? That is like a d8 tops... I charge him"

    WoD
    "Look out! He has a gun!"
    "Oh fuck! Don't shoot! I have a family!"

    MoosehatIV on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    One of my Mage NPCs got killed by a gun, true story. Granted, he had horrible dice luck, but hey.

    cj iwakura on
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  • AmiguAmigu Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Sounds like fights are messy and fast and in general something you try to avoid? Kind of reminds me of what I've seen of DH but maybe even a bit more intense. I'd be keen to try it out sometime. Probably as a player rather than as a DM. I can also see the cross overs having huge potential for disaster if people want to play like dicks...

    Amigu on
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  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    They can be a headache, yes, mostly when armor comes into play.

    -That deals two lethal!
    -I have prime armor plus forces warding.
    -...or not.

    cj iwakura on
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  • darksteeldarksteel Registered User
    edited June 2011
    One thing I like about WoD is that, on the rare occasion when gunfights actually happen, and everyone is shooting out of reasonably good cover, they will never resolve because no one will be hitting anyone. It encourages people to be active and flank the enemy, but also encourages them to not step out of cover and lose their bonus.

    The other good thing about WoD is that generally, combat is a last resort, something that the players don't look forward to; not because it's a bad combat system, but it's because they're in a situation where they can unintentionally kill someone, when most of their characters haven't killed a man in their lives. I love an RPG that makes you think really hard about what it means to kill a person and makes it a very weighty decision most of the time.

    darksteel on
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  • WubWub Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Yeah, true. I liked that combat is only useful as a last resort. The last character I played in NWoD was in a Werewolf game and he mostly just served as a negotiator between the spirit and the mortal planes. It was some of the most fun I've ever had RPing a character, but I guess it helped that we had a terrific ST. The game was set in 1920 Paris, just six months after WWI tore the world apart, so there was a lot of spiritual trauma that needed resolution, and beating the crud out of mortals was exceedingly rarely the best way to go about it.

    Wub on
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  • MoosehatIVMoosehatIV Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    So any advice on getting a group that is mainly experienced in D&D to start WoD? It feels like I am having some trouble getting them to really focus and try to follow the plot. Odd characters, little backstory, chaos at the table. Etc.

    It is sort of ruining my ambition at trying to run the game.

    Any advice?

    MoosehatIV on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Give them a good hook. Also, depends on the universe you want.


    I've been considering running a vanilla WoD Inferno-flavored game.



    By the by, update on my Mage IRL game: the Mysterium now run the Consilium.

    Fun times.

    cj iwakura on
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  • Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    So Mage-ers: what's a good way to punish a player who likes to screw with the Umbra/spirit realm? Be creative.

    Give him Whispers(•), but in addition to whatever the "normal" effect is(Epilepsy, insanity, stigmata) each dot of Dream turns into a -1 penalty to psychical defenses.
    Spirits understand this intuitively.

    Addendum:If he uses imbued tin-foil, laugh like a villain.

    Edith Upwards on
  • TunosTunos Registered User
    edited July 2011
    Stiiiiiill interested in that mage game...

    Tunos on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Just need to say that this has been one of my favorite Mage supplements yet.

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    Has everything you could want in a group book. Their history, rivalries(and alliances) with other orders, exclusive positions, hierarchies, rotes, the works.

    cj iwakura on
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  • MoosehatIVMoosehatIV Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    I don't know. I like mage, but I just have trouble getting into it.

    I went and browsed the above book, got a couple pages in and then got bored and just went to go look at the rotes and artifacts. They were kinda cool I suppose.

    I can see where the hooks in mage are, but they aren't hooking me. Help me get hooked.

    MoosehatIV on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Think of the Pentacle like the Camarilla. Five orders always at each other's throats with different ideas of how to run society. Boom, political drama.

    cj iwakura on
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  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    MoosehatIV wrote: »
    I don't know. I like mage, but I just have trouble getting into it.

    I went and browsed the above book, got a couple pages in and then got bored and just went to go look at the rotes and artifacts. They were kinda cool I suppose.

    I can see where the hooks in mage are, but they aren't hooking me. Help me get hooked.

    This is not an uncommon problem; there is a fairly sizable contingent of people who consider Awakening the weakest of the nWoD games, precisely because of design choices that limit the setting's potential.

    Some of these criticisms are unfair, some have been resolved, but you could find Awakening boring just because, well, it is boring.

    Professor Phobos on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited July 2011
    It's all in what you make of it. Otherwise no one would play Requiem.

    cj iwakura on
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  • Steel-LionSteel-Lion Registered User
    edited July 2011
    I've not got much experience with nWoD rules and what not, but I ran a game which involved having a mage beat down a werewolf by throwing an engine block made of silver at it whilst the player characters distracted it.

    It was fun! Though probably not "do-able" by actual rules.

    Steel-Lion on
  • MoosehatIVMoosehatIV Registered User regular
    MoosehatIV wrote: »
    I don't know. I like mage, but I just have trouble getting into it.

    I went and browsed the above book, got a couple pages in and then got bored and just went to go look at the rotes and artifacts. They were kinda cool I suppose.

    I can see where the hooks in mage are, but they aren't hooking me. Help me get hooked.

    This is not an uncommon problem; there is a fairly sizable contingent of people who consider Awakening the weakest of the nWoD games, precisely because of design choices that limit the setting's potential.

    Some of these criticisms are unfair, some have been resolved, but you could find Awakening boring just because, well, it is boring.

    I knew it! Turns out it was boring all along.

    I guess it still just sort of seems like humans with super powers to me. Mage doesn't quite have the same level of baggage that some of the other templates have. The baggage you get is sort just the trouble you get into by screwing around with your wicked cool super powers.

  • Jack HobbesJack Hobbes Registered User
    There are two reasons people don't like Awakening.

    First is that the core rulebook doesn't do a terribly good job of selling itself. It doesn't really click for people until they pick up Tome of Mysteries, Seers of the Throne and Encounters with the Abyss, but magic is fucking scary. If you aren't careful, someone you've never heard of can easily stop your heart without even needing to leave his house. This might be intentional; after all, Mage is a game primarily about hubris and pride, so if a Mage gets too caught up in the coolness of being able to make things levitate with his mind, he's all too likely to not notice that Banisher sneaking up on him with a knife.

    Second, people hate Awakening for not being Ascension. Granted, most of this has to do with Ascension mostly being played as a straight-up superhero game and Awakening not supporting that playstyle.

    ironzerg wrote: »
    I have a rule zero-zero at my table. If you're debating anything about the rules, and your argument starts with something like "...it just doesn't seem realistic that...", it's automatically invalid.
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    I had assumed Reign of the Exarchs was a seers book, it just happens to be a nifty storyline arc collection. Still haven't read Seers.

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  • Saint JusticeSaint Justice Mercenary Mah-vel Baybee!!!Registered User regular
    I'm finally going to get to run a hunter game with some friends tomorrow! I'm very stoked and will let you know what my first impressions are in case anyone's considering running/playing in a hunter campaign.

    Some people play tennis, I erode the human soul. ~ Tycho
  • CapfalconCapfalcon Tunnel Snakes Rule Capital WastelandRegistered User regular
    So, I'm looking at trying to run a game of Geist: The Sin Eaters online. It's going to be set in New Orleans during carnival season, and the krewe were actually members of a Mardi Gras krewe before their... incident. Just a rough idea for now, to see if there's any interest.

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