After finishing FFXIII's post-game, I don't see why it gets so much hate. Are everyone's nostalgia glasses really that strong? It delivers on more than 1/2 of the things i'm looking for in Final Fantasy game.
Great battle system.
Great graphics/cutscenes.
Great music. Favorite battle themes in the series.
Good setting. (Who cares if it's linear? FFX was also super linear)
Mediocre characters. (Although the voice acting is probably the best I've seen in a JRPG.)
Poor story. Too bad the sweet battle music is used on lame bosses. If only
Jihl Nabaat and Titan
were bosses...
Because it's linear, the plot falls apart, and the game spends 20 hours holding your hand. I had no problem with any of the above, as all ff's are guilty of the same shit to varying degrees, but I understand where people are put off.
After finishing FFXIII's post-game, I don't see why it gets so much hate. Are everyone's nostalgia glasses really that strong? It delivers on more than 1/2 of the things i'm looking for in Final Fantasy game.
Great battle system.
Great graphics/cutscenes.
Great music. Favorite battle themes in the series.
Good setting. (Who cares if it's linear? FFX was also super linear)
Mediocre characters. (Although the voice acting is probably the best I've seen in a JRPG.)
Poor story. Too bad the sweet battle music is used on lame bosses. If only
Jihl Nabaat and Titan
were bosses...
Well, to start, those are opinions. And due to that, its obvious that people might not share the same view as you.
Edit: Clarification, the only objective thing you said was that the graphics are top notch, but that's relative, all FF's were top notch graphically for their time.
Well, to start, those are opinions. And due to that, its obvious that people might not share the same view as you.
Edit: Clarification, the only objective thing you said was that the graphics are top notch, but that's relative, all FF's were top notch graphically for their time.
Ok granted, opinions are opinions and your mileage may vary, but there is some loose consensus on certain things about Final Fantasy.
VI: 95% of the cast is inconsequential to the story, but they're fun anyway.
VII: Midgar is great, but the 2nd act is underwhelming.
VIII: Drawing system is boring, but start and end of disc 1 are sweet.
IX: Slow battles and load times, but has an endearing cast and interesting plot development.
X: Customization/sphere grid is sweet, but ultimate weapon minigames are frustrating. Also, laughing scene is silly.
XII:Vaan/Penelo are barely characters in XII ("You couldn't pick her out of a lineup of one!"), but Balthier has enough character to compensate.
They all have their flaws, I just don't see why XIII's flaws are so focused upon, while its strengths are ignored. I was thinking general consensus would be: "Slow start, fun/challenging battle system, pretty graphics and music, meh story, characters and ending." Instead of: LINEARRRRR, Hope/Snow/Lightning/Vanille are the worst characters ever, ruined Final Fantasy forever." I didn't really go on message boards back then, was there similar bemoaning for the older titles when they came out? Is it just that it's too soon for a balanced consensus to be made?
Re: linear. The other complaints are valid, but the complaints about linearity confuse me. I don't see how backtracking across a sprawling desert to hunt a tomato on some random fetch quest or talking to a bunch of random NPCs about whatever makes a game better. It's filler. It can be good or enjoyed, but it's hardly necessary. And again, X is essentially as linear, it just has towns.
Re graphics: While they might be "top notch", the second installments on systems weren't as graphically impressive, IX, VIII and XII didn't improve that much on VII and X. Not really their fault, but the first games next-gen consoles always have more wow-factor. VI, VII, X and XIII definitely wowed me (VI was the first one I played on the SNES.)
JellySalmon on
What do you say we take a relaxed attitude towards work and watch the baseball game? The nye Mets are my favorite squadron.
They all have their flaws, I just don't see why XIII's flaws are so focused upon, while its strengths are ignored.
probably because opinions are formed and felt in different degrees.
It's like saying that you can't see very far in Mario 3, so why is the kryptonite fog a problem in Superman 64?
You list off the FFs like they all have equal problems and strengths, but the fact is that most people don't think of it this way. "Midgar is great, but the 2nd act is underwhelming" is not equal to "drawing system is boring, but start and end of disc 1 are sweet." I think it's safe to say that more people like 7 than 8, probably because they feel the positives outweigh the negatives in 7 and vice versa for 8 (and yes, sometimes the positives include rose-tinted glasses).
Apparently FFXIII just doesn't have enough positives to outweigh its negatives, in most people's minds, while the rest of the FFs fare better in this department.
In Dissidia, do any of the accessories boost when a Summon will take effect? I'm trying to do the Ex-Death method to super-level, but Magic Pot will not appear even when he has 9999 BRV. Is it purely random?
It should say on the summon menu what triggers the <auto> versions of summons. I think Magic Pot <auto> is opponent has 3x your brave.
If it is the manual version, as noted previous, hit R+O when you want to copy BRV.
The linearity is about the same in most FFs but FF13 doesn't even attempt to give the appearance of a real area most of the time. It's a psychological thing.
And to be fair I was pretty pissed at FFX for being that way too. Start at the bottom of the world map and walk to the top, then you get the useless-by-then airship and beat the game.
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited December 2010
Honestly, the linearity of FFXIII dungeons never hurt it, because really unless you think backtracking a lot is fun that doesn't matter. What hurt it was that there wasn't really much of a world to explore outside of it.
Most every other FF has a break between dungeons, a town or something similiar to break off the fighting and let you take in the setting. Even FFX, the game a lot of people like to criticize for being really linear, had this. XIII didn't really have that and it was a worse game for it.
Also, like it was said, the game spends 10 or so hours telling you just how to play the game. But when you see there isn't much else to the world, you understand why.
After finishing FFXIII's post-game, I don't see why it gets so much hate. Are everyone's nostalgia glasses really that strong? It delivers on more than 1/2 of the things i'm looking for in Final Fantasy game.
Great battle system.
Great graphics/cutscenes.
Great music. Favorite battle themes in the series.
Good setting. (Who cares if it's linear? FFX was also super linear)
Mediocre characters. (Although the voice acting is probably the best I've seen in a JRPG.)
Poor story. Too bad the sweet battle music is used on lame bosses. If only
Jihl Nabaat and Titan
were bosses...
Well, to start, those are opinions. And due to that, its obvious that people might not share the same view as you.
Edit: Clarification, the only objective thing you said was that the graphics are top notch, but that's relative, all FF's were top notch graphically for their time.
Exactly. For example, I hated the battle system and the stupid fact that I had to switch classes constantly (and yet you had to make a stupid setup ahead of time to determine what classes you could change to?). And I also hated having control of 1 character the entire time, and if that character got KO'd, UH-OH!
After finishing FFXIII's post-game, I don't see why it gets so much hate. Are everyone's nostalgia glasses really that strong? It delivers on more than 1/2 of the things i'm looking for in Final Fantasy game.
Great battle system.
Great graphics/cutscenes.
Great music. Favorite battle themes in the series.
Good setting. (Who cares if it's linear? FFX was also super linear)
Mediocre characters. (Although the voice acting is probably the best I've seen in a JRPG.)
Poor story. Too bad the sweet battle music is used on lame bosses. If only
Jihl Nabaat and Titan
were bosses...
Well, to start, those are opinions. And due to that, its obvious that people might not share the same view as you.
Edit: Clarification, the only objective thing you said was that the graphics are top notch, but that's relative, all FF's were top notch graphically for their time.
Exactly. For example, I hated the battle system and the stupid fact that I had to switch classes constantly (and yet you had to make a stupid setup ahead of time to determine what classes you could change to?). And I also hated having control of 1 character the entire time, and if that character got KO'd, UH-OH!
Switching classes constantly is what made the fighting system great, and people who complain about the main character getting knocked out causing a game over are the silliest of gooses.
Switching classes constantly is what made the fighting system great, and people who complain about the main character getting knocked out causing a game over are the silliest of gooses.
Come on, surely you can see why getting a game over, when you have 2 guys with perfectly good revive items/spells still standing, can annoy some people.
Switching classes constantly is what made the fighting system great, and people who complain about the main character getting knocked out causing a game over are the silliest of gooses.
Come on, surely you can see why getting a game over, when you have 2 guys with perfectly good revive items/spells still standing, can annoy some people.
Same shit happens in persona, where losing a battle sends you back to your last save instead of, you know, starting the fight over and yet I've seen twice as much complaining about it happening in FF13 than I have in the megaten threads, which both move faster and have had longer to complain. If you're going to complain about it then you may as well mope about dying in general, or aeris or any other pc death in every rpg with a rez item ever.
Switching classes constantly is what made the fighting system great, and people who complain about the main character getting knocked out causing a game over are the silliest of gooses.
Come on, surely you can see why getting a game over, when you have 2 guys with perfectly good revive items/spells still standing, can annoy some people.
Same shit happens in persona, where losing a battle sends you back to your last save instead of, you know, starting the fight over and yet I've seen twice as much complaining about it happening in FF13 than I have in the megaten threads, which both move faster and have had longer to complain. If you're going to complain about it then you may as well mope about dying in general, or aeris or any other pc death in every rpg with a rez item ever.
That's because you play one main character in Persona who clearly cannot be brought back to life, ever. In FF13 you play everyone and for some unexplained reason if you aren't directly controlling someone they can be revived as often as 80's rock music but as soon as you have a say in what they're doing they can't. It makes zero sense.
Switching classes constantly is what made the fighting system great, and people who complain about the main character getting knocked out causing a game over are the silliest of gooses.
Come on, surely you can see why getting a game over, when you have 2 guys with perfectly good revive items/spells still standing, can annoy some people.
Same shit happens in persona, where losing a battle sends you back to your last save instead of, you know, starting the fight over and yet I've seen twice as much complaining about it happening in FF13 than I have in the megaten threads, which both move faster and have had longer to complain. If you're going to complain about it then you may as well mope about dying in general, or aeris or any other pc death in every rpg with a rez item ever.
That's because you play one main character in Persona who clearly cannot be brought back to life, ever. In FF13 you play everyone and for some unexplained reason if you aren't directly controlling someone they can be revived as often as 80's rock music but as soon as you have a say in what they're doing they can't. It makes zero sense.
I think we can all agree on one thing: Matsuno needs to go back and make another FF set in Ivalice. And if anyone disagrees, they just don't like things that are good or fun.
I think we can all agree on one thing: Matsuno needs to go back and make another FF set in Ivalice. And if anyone disagrees, they just don't like things that are good or fun.
I like fun things but not good things. Can I stay?
Magic Pink on
0
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Best bit of FF13 was Oerba. Hella good music and had the "downtime" I never realised I was missing until I got there. Annoyingly marred by there being encounters there.
13's postgame soured it for me, because those Adamantoises were really boring after the first time. Same with 12 - random chests and 4 hours of fighting Yiazmat underlevelled before leaving him with 10 million hp remaining. (For whatever reason, I was okay with grinding spheres in FFX.)
On Persona, I couldn't bring myself to finish 3 on PS2 because the AI was sometimes pants on head retarded and refused to do what I wanted to, leading to my MC getting killed. This never happens in 13, plus death is a setback of all of a few seconds so whatever.
Switching classes constantly is what made the fighting system great, and people who complain about the main character getting knocked out causing a game over are the silliest of gooses.
Come on, surely you can see why getting a game over, when you have 2 guys with perfectly good revive items/spells still standing, can annoy some people.
Same shit happens in persona, where losing a battle sends you back to your last save instead of, you know, starting the fight over and yet I've seen twice as much complaining about it happening in FF13 than I have in the megaten threads, which both move faster and have had longer to complain. If you're going to complain about it then you may as well mope about dying in general, or aeris or any other pc death in every rpg with a rez item ever.
That's because you play one main character in Persona who clearly cannot be brought back to life, ever. In FF13 you play everyone and for some unexplained reason if you aren't directly controlling someone they can be revived as often as 80's rock music but as soon as you have a say in what they're doing they can't. It makes zero sense.
EXACTLY.
Oh god things don't make sense! Giant metal balloons can't fly! People can't cast magic!
Various FF spoilers for 4, 8, 10 and 7.
I can't soft Palom and Porom! I can't phoenix down Aeris, who died to a single sword stroke despite later on the entire party survivng a meteor that smashes through planets! I can't remedy Rinoa! Casting life on Auron doesn't make him not a zombie, and for that matter, casting zombie on a zombie doesn't make double zombie!
Here's the sense. It makes the game harder. That is good enough. If the advancement of a coherent narrative is good enough a reason to let the above slide then improved gameplay is one as well.
Oh hey look, it's that bad argument again that you're not entitled to complain about something that doesn't make sense because nothing really makes sense!
Except some things strain belief more than others, and are also incredibly annoying as a game mechanic.
Oh god things don't make sense! Giant metal balloons can't fly! People can't cast magic!
Yeeeaaah, can we just agree that people who use this lame butt argument are just admitting they have no leg to stand on already?
Please explain the functional difference between why I can't life Aeris and why it is game over when the main character dies, from the perspective of in game consistency. Because we both know the reason you can't life Aeris is because it is an integral plot point, and the reason you can't life the main character in 13 is because it increases the challenge and affects how you approach combat. Why is one cool and the other not when both break the internal lore just as hard?
You explained it yourself already. One of them is plot related, and plot stuff has nothing to do with in-game logic because that's how the genre does things. The other is based directly in the mechanics, so it feels a lot more silly to not be able to pheonix down someone in mid-combat, which is exactly when you're SUPPOSED to be able to do that. You're looking at internal lore as an all-inclusive thing, and that has never been the case. This particular thing is breaking the logic of the battle system from within the battle system itself. It's always going to feel wrong and awkward when a game does that.
Having the double standard of not being able to revive the controlled character, as a mechanic, just made me control higher HP characters, because the difference between getting a squishy character killed changed from having to work in a revive, to restarting the entire battle. Given that you can barely affect party position it was just an annoyance.
And I haven't played any other FF or Persona game, and I'm pretty sure I'd complain about this in those games too.
You explained it yourself already. One of them is plot related, and plot stuff has nothing to do with in-game logic because that's how the genre does things. The other is based directly in the mechanics, so it feels a lot more silly to not be able to pheonix down someone in mid-combat, which is exactly when you're SUPPOSED to be able to do that. You're looking at internal lore as an all-inclusive thing, and that has never been the case. This particular thing is breaking the logic of the battle system from within the battle system itself. It's always going to feel wrong and awkward when a game does that.
The battle system itself is effectively abstract nonsense to begin with so adding another bit to that is hardly logic breaking.
If your controlled character is dying, you've got a few options.
1. Stop controlling Hope
2. Stop being bad at setting Paradigms
I think 13's battle system is great and strong enough to carry the whole game, which is fortunate because there's precious little else there apart from flash.
The battle system itself is effectively abstract nonsense to begin with so adding another bit to that is hardly logic breaking.
It doesn't matter. Most games are abstract nonsense. What matters is that a game be internally consistent with whatever rules it sets up. Final Fantasy Tactics also allowed the death of the main character to cause a game over, but death was permanent for all characters. It wouldn't make any sense if Ramza was the only one who could die, especially if he only died while you were focusing on him. There are many ways they could have increased the challenge without giving you that weird restriction, if that's your sticking point.
How much sense it makes isn't important though, since just from a gameplay perspective I can't see how this could ever be a good idea. It forces you into controlling high HP characters for no benefit that I can see. When playing 12 I was always playing as Fran since I could stand back and watch the battle more easily with her, and as my caster she was the one that needed the most attention. It worked out great since the melee guys went and did their thing while I sat back and made the important decisions. 13 is encouraging the exact opposite and it just felt wrong to me.
Then again, I didn't play 13 long enough to get too deep into the combat. The first 4 hours or so killed any desire I might have had to continue. I'm aware that it improves later, but that doesn't excuse it. An RPGs first couple hours are supposed to suck me in and make me want to play more, and 13 completely failed at that. I don't have the time or patience anymore to play an RPG that I'm not enjoying, which I have to sink over 10 hours into before it hits the point where people say it starts getting better.
If your controlled character is dying, you've got a few options.
1. Stop controlling Hope
2. Stop being bad at setting Paradigms
I think 13's battle system is great and strong enough to carry the whole game, which is fortunate because there's precious little else there apart from flash.
See, it's not being bad at switching Paradigms that's my problem. It's the fact that I have to switch them.
They could've handled it so much better. For example, do like they did in the good old days, and put everyone in a static class, with set abilities pertaining to that character. Or do what they did in the past few games: Let people learn various abilities and magic without the need to switch up all the damn time.
X-2 had you changing classes as well, and I hold that it has the best gameplay in any FF. X had you changing characters which was essentially the same thing for 90% of the game, and that's my second favourite system.
To my mind, characters being able to do everything is functionally the same as switching jobs (if you're doing it right). The switching just adds another layer to the gameplay, which isn't exactly complicated in the first place.
I enjoy the experimentation that systems like this promote - there's some fun in figuring out the correct way to beat an encounter that's absent from the older titles. I think it's a shame when people aren't up for trying something new and attempt to fit a round peg into a square hole.
X-2 had you changing classes as well, and I hold that it has the best gameplay in any FF. X had you changing characters which was essentially the same thing for 90% of the game, and that's my second favourite system.
To my mind, characters being able to do everything is functionally the same as switching jobs (if you're doing it right). The switching just adds another layer to the gameplay, which isn't exactly complicated in the first place.
I enjoy the experimentation that systems like this promote - there's some fun in figuring out the correct way to beat an encounter that's absent from the older titles. I think it's a shame when people aren't up for trying something new and attempt to fit a round peg into a square hole.
If your controlled character is dying, you've got a few options.
1. Stop controlling Hope
2. Stop being bad at setting Paradigms
I think 13's battle system is great and strong enough to carry the whole game, which is fortunate because there's precious little else there apart from flash.
See, it's not being bad at switching Paradigms that's my problem. It's the fact that I have to switch them.
They could've handled it so much better. For example, do like they did in the good old days, and put everyone in a static class, with set abilities pertaining to that character. Or do what they did in the past few games: Let people learn various abilities and magic without the need to switch up all the damn time.
Why? That would defeat the entire point. Class changing is the meat of the combat.
It doesn't matter. Most games are abstract nonsense. What matters is that a game be internally consistent with whatever rules it sets up.
Yes. The rules it sets up are that the main character cannot die. I do not follow why this doesn't make sense at all if you want to separate mechanics from the rest of the game. It is another mechanic, done for mechanical reasons. It makes makes as much sense as any other arbitrary construct. Oh no, it invalidates a couple abilities! So fucking what, it added tension in battle to a series that has almost never had it.
Why are you guys arguing about phoenix downs and what not?
The way I alway saw it was they brought you back from being knocked out, which I swear is even its description in a game.
Being dead is not being knocked out.
X-2 had you changing classes as well, and I hold that it has the best gameplay in any FF. X had you changing characters which was essentially the same thing for 90% of the game, and that's my second favourite system.
To my mind, characters being able to do everything is functionally the same as switching jobs (if you're doing it right). The switching just adds another layer to the gameplay, which isn't exactly complicated in the first place.
I enjoy the experimentation that systems like this promote - there's some fun in figuring out the correct way to beat an encounter that's absent from the older titles. I think it's a shame when people aren't up for trying something new and attempt to fit a round peg into a square hole.
Don't even get me started on X-2.
Because it's so good you'll talk about it all day?
Why are you guys arguing about phoenix downs and what not?
The way I alway saw it was they brought you back from being knocked out, which I swear is even its description in a game.
Being dead is not being knocked out.
This isn't worth arguing about because then you have to presume that all guns must be airsoft and all world-ending summons take place in the minds of those targeted or whatever.
Personally the way I like to rationalize HP in any RPG is to assume that being hit with any attack would probably kill you outright and HP is your ability to keep dodging attacks. Thus why characters never get bloody but just bend over panting or whatever. Their HP is low, they're tired and not as nimble on their feet anymore.
Posts
Because it's linear, the plot falls apart, and the game spends 20 hours holding your hand. I had no problem with any of the above, as all ff's are guilty of the same shit to varying degrees, but I understand where people are put off.
LoL: failboattootoot
Well, to start, those are opinions. And due to that, its obvious that people might not share the same view as you.
Edit: Clarification, the only objective thing you said was that the graphics are top notch, but that's relative, all FF's were top notch graphically for their time.
Ok granted, opinions are opinions and your mileage may vary, but there is some loose consensus on certain things about Final Fantasy.
VI: 95% of the cast is inconsequential to the story, but they're fun anyway.
VII: Midgar is great, but the 2nd act is underwhelming.
VIII: Drawing system is boring, but start and end of disc 1 are sweet.
IX: Slow battles and load times, but has an endearing cast and interesting plot development.
X: Customization/sphere grid is sweet, but ultimate weapon minigames are frustrating. Also, laughing scene is silly.
XII:Vaan/Penelo are barely characters in XII ("You couldn't pick her out of a lineup of one!"), but Balthier has enough character to compensate.
They all have their flaws, I just don't see why XIII's flaws are so focused upon, while its strengths are ignored. I was thinking general consensus would be: "Slow start, fun/challenging battle system, pretty graphics and music, meh story, characters and ending." Instead of: LINEARRRRR, Hope/Snow/Lightning/Vanille are the worst characters ever, ruined Final Fantasy forever." I didn't really go on message boards back then, was there similar bemoaning for the older titles when they came out? Is it just that it's too soon for a balanced consensus to be made?
Re: linear. The other complaints are valid, but the complaints about linearity confuse me. I don't see how backtracking across a sprawling desert to hunt a tomato on some random fetch quest or talking to a bunch of random NPCs about whatever makes a game better. It's filler. It can be good or enjoyed, but it's hardly necessary. And again, X is essentially as linear, it just has towns.
Re graphics: While they might be "top notch", the second installments on systems weren't as graphically impressive, IX, VIII and XII didn't improve that much on VII and X. Not really their fault, but the first games next-gen consoles always have more wow-factor. VI, VII, X and XIII definitely wowed me (VI was the first one I played on the SNES.)
probably because opinions are formed and felt in different degrees.
It's like saying that you can't see very far in Mario 3, so why is the kryptonite fog a problem in Superman 64?
You list off the FFs like they all have equal problems and strengths, but the fact is that most people don't think of it this way. "Midgar is great, but the 2nd act is underwhelming" is not equal to "drawing system is boring, but start and end of disc 1 are sweet." I think it's safe to say that more people like 7 than 8, probably because they feel the positives outweigh the negatives in 7 and vice versa for 8 (and yes, sometimes the positives include rose-tinted glasses).
Apparently FFXIII just doesn't have enough positives to outweigh its negatives, in most people's minds, while the rest of the FFs fare better in this department.
It should say on the summon menu what triggers the <auto> versions of summons. I think Magic Pot <auto> is opponent has 3x your brave.
If it is the manual version, as noted previous, hit R+O when you want to copy BRV.
By all accounts FFXIII is even worse though.
Most every other FF has a break between dungeons, a town or something similiar to break off the fighting and let you take in the setting. Even FFX, the game a lot of people like to criticize for being really linear, had this. XIII didn't really have that and it was a worse game for it.
Also, like it was said, the game spends 10 or so hours telling you just how to play the game. But when you see there isn't much else to the world, you understand why.
Exactly. For example, I hated the battle system and the stupid fact that I had to switch classes constantly (and yet you had to make a stupid setup ahead of time to determine what classes you could change to?). And I also hated having control of 1 character the entire time, and if that character got KO'd, UH-OH!
XBL: GamingFreak5514
PSN: GamingFreak1234
Switching classes constantly is what made the fighting system great, and people who complain about the main character getting knocked out causing a game over are the silliest of gooses.
LoL: failboattootoot
XBL: GamingFreak5514
PSN: GamingFreak1234
Come on, surely you can see why getting a game over, when you have 2 guys with perfectly good revive items/spells still standing, can annoy some people.
Same shit happens in persona, where losing a battle sends you back to your last save instead of, you know, starting the fight over and yet I've seen twice as much complaining about it happening in FF13 than I have in the megaten threads, which both move faster and have had longer to complain. If you're going to complain about it then you may as well mope about dying in general, or aeris or any other pc death in every rpg with a rez item ever.
LoL: failboattootoot
That's because you play one main character in Persona who clearly cannot be brought back to life, ever. In FF13 you play everyone and for some unexplained reason if you aren't directly controlling someone they can be revived as often as 80's rock music but as soon as you have a say in what they're doing they can't. It makes zero sense.
EXACTLY.
XBL: GamingFreak5514
PSN: GamingFreak1234
I like fun things but not good things. Can I stay?
13's postgame soured it for me, because those Adamantoises were really boring after the first time. Same with 12 - random chests and 4 hours of fighting Yiazmat underlevelled before leaving him with 10 million hp remaining. (For whatever reason, I was okay with grinding spheres in FFX.)
On Persona, I couldn't bring myself to finish 3 on PS2 because the AI was sometimes pants on head retarded and refused to do what I wanted to, leading to my MC getting killed. This never happens in 13, plus death is a setback of all of a few seconds so whatever.
Also a WRONG machine!
Oh god things don't make sense! Giant metal balloons can't fly! People can't cast magic!
Various FF spoilers for 4, 8, 10 and 7.
Here's the sense. It makes the game harder. That is good enough. If the advancement of a coherent narrative is good enough a reason to let the above slide then improved gameplay is one as well.
LoL: failboattootoot
Except some things strain belief more than others, and are also incredibly annoying as a game mechanic.
Yeeeaaah, can we just agree that people who use this lame butt argument are just admitting they have no leg to stand on already?
Please explain the functional difference between why I can't life Aeris and why it is game over when the main character dies, from the perspective of in game consistency. Because we both know the reason you can't life Aeris is because it is an integral plot point, and the reason you can't life the main character in 13 is because it increases the challenge and affects how you approach combat. Why is one cool and the other not when both break the internal lore just as hard?
LoL: failboattootoot
Having the double standard of not being able to revive the controlled character, as a mechanic, just made me control higher HP characters, because the difference between getting a squishy character killed changed from having to work in a revive, to restarting the entire battle. Given that you can barely affect party position it was just an annoyance.
And I haven't played any other FF or Persona game, and I'm pretty sure I'd complain about this in those games too.
The battle system itself is effectively abstract nonsense to begin with so adding another bit to that is hardly logic breaking.
LoL: failboattootoot
1. Stop controlling Hope
2. Stop being bad at setting Paradigms
I think 13's battle system is great and strong enough to carry the whole game, which is fortunate because there's precious little else there apart from flash.
It doesn't matter. Most games are abstract nonsense. What matters is that a game be internally consistent with whatever rules it sets up. Final Fantasy Tactics also allowed the death of the main character to cause a game over, but death was permanent for all characters. It wouldn't make any sense if Ramza was the only one who could die, especially if he only died while you were focusing on him. There are many ways they could have increased the challenge without giving you that weird restriction, if that's your sticking point.
How much sense it makes isn't important though, since just from a gameplay perspective I can't see how this could ever be a good idea. It forces you into controlling high HP characters for no benefit that I can see. When playing 12 I was always playing as Fran since I could stand back and watch the battle more easily with her, and as my caster she was the one that needed the most attention. It worked out great since the melee guys went and did their thing while I sat back and made the important decisions. 13 is encouraging the exact opposite and it just felt wrong to me.
Then again, I didn't play 13 long enough to get too deep into the combat. The first 4 hours or so killed any desire I might have had to continue. I'm aware that it improves later, but that doesn't excuse it. An RPGs first couple hours are supposed to suck me in and make me want to play more, and 13 completely failed at that. I don't have the time or patience anymore to play an RPG that I'm not enjoying, which I have to sink over 10 hours into before it hits the point where people say it starts getting better.
See, it's not being bad at switching Paradigms that's my problem. It's the fact that I have to switch them.
They could've handled it so much better. For example, do like they did in the good old days, and put everyone in a static class, with set abilities pertaining to that character. Or do what they did in the past few games: Let people learn various abilities and magic without the need to switch up all the damn time.
XBL: GamingFreak5514
PSN: GamingFreak1234
To my mind, characters being able to do everything is functionally the same as switching jobs (if you're doing it right). The switching just adds another layer to the gameplay, which isn't exactly complicated in the first place.
I enjoy the experimentation that systems like this promote - there's some fun in figuring out the correct way to beat an encounter that's absent from the older titles. I think it's a shame when people aren't up for trying something new and attempt to fit a round peg into a square hole.
Don't even get me started on X-2.
XBL: GamingFreak5514
PSN: GamingFreak1234
Why? That would defeat the entire point. Class changing is the meat of the combat.
Yes. The rules it sets up are that the main character cannot die. I do not follow why this doesn't make sense at all if you want to separate mechanics from the rest of the game. It is another mechanic, done for mechanical reasons. It makes makes as much sense as any other arbitrary construct. Oh no, it invalidates a couple abilities! So fucking what, it added tension in battle to a series that has almost never had it.
LoL: failboattootoot
I see... your problem is that you hate fun/are an old person who feels overwhelmed if you crank up battle speed and switch from Wait to Active.
You have my condolences :P
The way I alway saw it was they brought you back from being knocked out, which I swear is even its description in a game.
Being dead is not being knocked out.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
I mean, it's either that or you hate fun.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
This isn't worth arguing about because then you have to presume that all guns must be airsoft and all world-ending summons take place in the minds of those targeted or whatever.
Personally the way I like to rationalize HP in any RPG is to assume that being hit with any attack would probably kill you outright and HP is your ability to keep dodging attacks. Thus why characters never get bloody but just bend over panting or whatever. Their HP is low, they're tired and not as nimble on their feet anymore.