How come no one ever bitches about Mario getting knocked out during a cutscene, but doesn't shrink down to a small size like he's supposed to in the game? Or why Sonic didn't have a bunch of rings pop out of him when he's put into a similar matter?
You need a real explanation? Phoenix Down brings back people from KO status, not death. If anyone could be revived with a store-bought feather, there wouldn't be nearly as many tragic deaths in the series.
If you want the best example, go play FFV, where the group tries to revive a certain character using every possible item and spell in their inventory.
Also people don't give enough credit to FF13's battle retry feature, it's pretty unusual for a console game to have such nice autosaves.
Yeah, restarting me just before where I was when combat started, thus occasionally giving me a chance to not botch the ambush, as well as restoring my used shrouds. It was handy.
By far the best feature was having your HP/MP restored to full at the end of every battle. This is something I'd like to see carried over to most RPGs.
Honestly, I think it's better than trying to come up with some hamfisted way of explaining game logic.
I agree, which is why HP as the ability to dodge is specifically not hamfisted. HP representing actual physical trauma, bruises, cuts, loss of limbs, is at this point much less believable than simply as a sort of stamina meter, a means to avoid real bodily damage. Devs do not state that this is the case, but they demonstrate it by the way they handle gameplay and it is eminently logical.
How come no one ever bitches about Mario getting knocked out during a cutscene, but doesn't shrink down to a small size like he's supposed to in the game? Or why Sonic didn't have a bunch of rings pop out of him when he's put into a similar matter?
You need a real explanation? Phoenix Down brings back people from KO status, not death. If anyone could be revived with a store-bought feather, there wouldn't be nearly as many tragic deaths in the series.
If you want the best example, go play FFV, where the group tries to revive a certain character using every possible item and spell in their inventory.
I was about to mention that case. I've only played the DS version of IV so maybe the dialogue got added, but it's a similar situation there, isn't it?
It kind of shows where FFVII's success comes from that Aeris' death is such a big deal, when the series has been killing off party members since it started giving them names. :P
It's because it's happened before why I never understood why it was a big deal.
Granted it's a very tragic moment, and it's never happened to a female character, but people act like it's never, ever happened before in the series when there were similarly tragic deaths prior.
I still consider Rydia's "death" from Leviathan a more tragic moment, even though she survives, because I think about how horrible Cecil must have felt at that point, failing to save the little girl he vowed to protect. Adding in those comic-relief Hobbits did little to soften the absolute downer tone the game had at that point.
The player-controlled character KO = game over thing doesn't work because it's a really strange decision to make regardless of how much sense it makes in the game world; the arbitrary nature of it just makes it more annoying. I'm done arguing about it though, as I said everything I want to about it in my last post. Anything else is going to remain a matter of opinion and we won't get anywhere.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that HP was originally intended to work that way. Lowering it was supposed to mean that the character is getting tired or bruised up, while falling below the 10% mark or so means you've actually gotten hurt. Not all modern games treat it like that, but from my understanding that's what it's supposed to be.
I keep hearing all these good things about X-2's combat, so I may have to actually play it sometime now that I'm done laughing at it. I have to finish FF1 first though. I've had that game for longer than I can remember and I've never beat it.
EDIT: FF4 had characters dropping like flies, so I don't see anything special about FF7 in that regard either. However, I happened to be one of the people who actually used her all the time since I hadn't fully grasped the idea that it simply doesn't matter who you use in that game, and all previous RPGs had drilled the rule of always bringing a healer into my head, so I was particularly pissed about losing her.
Rydia got thrown overboard and it wasn't unreasonable to guess she might pop back up later (hell, that's what I thought way back when, it didn't even bother me beyond 'dammit, I liked her skillset, now I won't see it for awhile').
Aeris on the other hand.......yeah, sword through the back then giving her a burial is a little final.
And not only was she female but she was the female LEAD up to that point. Killing of the hero/heroine is very very rare in any media.
Rydia got thrown overboard and it wasn't unreasonable to guess she might pop back up later (hell, that's what I thought way back when, it didn't even bother me beyond 'dammit, I liked her skillset, now I won't see it for awhile').
Aeris on the other hand.......yeah, sword through the back then giving her a burial is a little final.
And not only was she female but she was the female LEAD up to that point. Killing of the hero/heroine is very very rare in any media.
The thing is you get the official word from Yang that she was eaten by Leviathan, and the characters readily and begrudgingly accept this, thus diminished any hope that she had survived. It really is tragic when you consider their relationship prior, which again is something I wished these subsequent re-releases would put more emphasis toward.
Look how damn sad it is, and that's just fan-art. This is how you breathe new life to your old games, Square!
Also found this amusing thing. It comes from a NSFW site, but if I don't directly link it you won't get the translation.
Amusing, because this is something I still wonder about to this day: they never have given an official word how the "time skip" thing works, but I always assumed it was like the link says, and made me wonder what would happen when she returns there at the end of the game.
X-2 had you changing classes as well, and I hold that it has the best gameplay in any FF. X had you changing characters which was essentially the same thing for 90% of the game, and that's my second favourite system.
To my mind, characters being able to do everything is functionally the same as switching jobs (if you're doing it right). The switching just adds another layer to the gameplay, which isn't exactly complicated in the first place.
I enjoy the experimentation that systems like this promote - there's some fun in figuring out the correct way to beat an encounter that's absent from the older titles. I think it's a shame when people aren't up for trying something new and attempt to fit a round peg into a square hole.
Don't even get me started on X-2.
Because it's so good you'll talk about it all day?
I mean, it's either that or you hate fun.
Yes, I also love how the story was crappy, and there to make a good ending for FFX. I also love how you had to do side-quests and get perfects on mini-games to get a better ending.
And who's idea was that, anyway? "Oh, you gotta completely perfect this massaging mini-game that you're doing for the first time and will never do again, or you can't get best ending!"
Rydia got thrown overboard and it wasn't unreasonable to guess she might pop back up later (hell, that's what I thought way back when, it didn't even bother me beyond 'dammit, I liked her skillset, now I won't see it for awhile').
Aeris on the other hand.......yeah, sword through the back then giving her a burial is a little final.
And not only was she female but she was the female LEAD up to that point. Killing of the hero/heroine is very very rare in any media.
The thing is you get the official word from Yang that she was eaten by Leviathan, and the characters readily and begrudgingly accept this, thus diminished any hope that she had survived. It really is tragic when you consider their relationship prior, which again is something I wished these subsequent re-releases would put more emphasis toward.
Look how damn sad it is, and that's just fan-art. This is how you breathe new life to your old games, Square!
yes, those certainly are tears running down her hideous pumpkin-shaped head
X-2 has a great sub-plot (for FF standards) in the whole Nooj/Baralai/Gippal thing. I won't deny that any time Brother is on screen is absolutely awful.
You don't need to do sidequests for the "good" ending, just for the "best" one and playing through once as each faction means you can skip some. (Don't actually know what happens in the best ending, got 99.7% trying for 100% in a single run.)
That hasn't got anything to do with the battle system so gone off at a tangent :P
The normal ending is the best one anyway, so it doesn't matter.
I know it's not the same people with the complaints, but it bugs me that this is considered the better, more mature ending for Yuna, but in Tactics Advance, oh no, everyone needs to get everything they want or Marche is an asshole.
The normal ending is the best one anyway, so it doesn't matter.
I know it's not the same people with the complaints, but it bugs me that this is considered the better, more mature ending for Yuna, but in Tactics Advance, oh no, everyone needs to get everything they want or Marche is an asshole.
In my defense, I have always been pretty firmly Team Marche.
Got no sympathy for whatsherface (Ritz?) but it's hard not to think Marche is an asshole considering Mewt is bullied daily, his dad is unemployed and Marche's brother is in a wheelchair.
"No guys my Aryan life is perfect who cares how bad the rest of you have it"
That said, FFT:A is the most fun to play. A2 and WotL are sloooooooooooooooooooooow.
The normal ending is the best one anyway, so it doesn't matter.
I know it's not the same people with the complaints, but it bugs me that this is considered the better, more mature ending for Yuna, but in Tactics Advance, oh no, everyone needs to get everything they want or Marche is an asshole.
I like the normal ending better and agree with FFTAs ending!
Just booted up to check. Menus and loading are significantly slower on A2 compared to Advance, plot moves quicker in Advance, battles take less time in Advance due to faster animations and not having to wait for MP.
TA: 300 missions done, 54 hours, party level 31 (100%)
A2: 112 quests completed, 34 hours, party level 33 (not even close :P)
Oh come on, you're going to rag on FFIX's ending now?
Terra should have disappeared with the magic, Cloud and the entire human population was killed by Holy, and everything past Disc 1 was Squall's dream.
Depressing fuckers....
I'm not ragging on it, I'm saying it was... convenient.
C'mon, though... Zidane was believed to be dead, but then, with no explanation at the end, "TADAAH! HAPPY ENDING!"
There's a very specific explanation for it. You might have missed it since it was in the Ultimania.
he survived because HE IS AWESOME
...And once again, my mind comes up with something majorly fucked up.
He survived because it turned out the Iifa Tree is female, and he slept with it.
This would later result in Exdeath being born. Somehow.
I get the worrying feeling I'm not the first to have that particular thought. I get the even more worrying feeling that it exists somewhere as fanfiction. Or even worse, fanart.
And that is what my brain has come up with at 3:20am. I should probably go to sleep before my brain decides to think of anything else.
BlitzAce1981 on
PSN ID - BlitzAce1981 FFXIV - Raiden Solitaire (Sargatanas)
You probably are the first, but heck, I've heard worse theories.
Such as how The Spirits Within actually led to the birth of FFVIII's world. Now there's a crazy one.
Then again, they revealed that FFX actually takes place in FFVII's past, so I'm perfectly willing to accept that all of the stories are somehow canonical to each other.
YggiDeeThe World Ends With You ShillRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
Am I the only one who remembers FFX-2's "good ending" being foreshadowed in FFX?
In FFX's endgame, after most of the plot is unfurled, I remember going around to talk to all of the Fayths in their chambers. They basically clarified the Yu Yevon/Sin/Final Summon clusterfuck, and wanted to be free of the endless cycle. One of them promised to Dream a new ocean for Tidus. I basically assumed that meant Tidus would be coming back to life.
Am I the only one who remembers FFX-2's "good ending" being foreshadowed in FFX?
In FFX's endgame, after most of the plot is unfurled, I remember going around to talk to all of the Fayths in their chambers. They basically clarified the Yu Yevon/Sin/Final Summon clusterfuck, and wanted to be free of the endless cycle. One of them promised to Dream a new ocean for Tidus. I basically assumed that meant Tidus would be coming back to life.
Did this actually happen or am I confused?
It's that kind of talk that had people thinking that Aerith came back to life at the end of FFVII.
Posts
Not really though.
Honestly, I think it's better than trying to come up with some hamfisted way of explaining game logic.
You need a real explanation? Phoenix Down brings back people from KO status, not death. If anyone could be revived with a store-bought feather, there wouldn't be nearly as many tragic deaths in the series.
If you want the best example, go play FFV, where the group tries to revive a certain character using every possible item and spell in their inventory.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Yeah, restarting me just before where I was when combat started, thus occasionally giving me a chance to not botch the ambush, as well as restoring my used shrouds. It was handy.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
I agree, which is why HP as the ability to dodge is specifically not hamfisted. HP representing actual physical trauma, bruises, cuts, loss of limbs, is at this point much less believable than simply as a sort of stamina meter, a means to avoid real bodily damage. Devs do not state that this is the case, but they demonstrate it by the way they handle gameplay and it is eminently logical.
I was about to mention that case. I've only played the DS version of IV so maybe the dialogue got added, but it's a similar situation there, isn't it?
It kind of shows where FFVII's success comes from that Aeris' death is such a big deal, when the series has been killing off party members since it started giving them names. :P
Granted it's a very tragic moment, and it's never happened to a female character, but people act like it's never, ever happened before in the series when there were similarly tragic deaths prior.
I still consider Rydia's "death" from Leviathan a more tragic moment, even though she survives, because I think about how horrible Cecil must have felt at that point, failing to save the little girl he vowed to protect. Adding in those comic-relief Hobbits did little to soften the absolute downer tone the game had at that point.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that HP was originally intended to work that way. Lowering it was supposed to mean that the character is getting tired or bruised up, while falling below the 10% mark or so means you've actually gotten hurt. Not all modern games treat it like that, but from my understanding that's what it's supposed to be.
I keep hearing all these good things about X-2's combat, so I may have to actually play it sometime now that I'm done laughing at it. I have to finish FF1 first though. I've had that game for longer than I can remember and I've never beat it.
EDIT: FF4 had characters dropping like flies, so I don't see anything special about FF7 in that regard either. However, I happened to be one of the people who actually used her all the time since I hadn't fully grasped the idea that it simply doesn't matter who you use in that game, and all previous RPGs had drilled the rule of always bringing a healer into my head, so I was particularly pissed about losing her.
Aeris on the other hand.......yeah, sword through the back then giving her a burial is a little final.
And not only was she female but she was the female LEAD up to that point. Killing of the hero/heroine is very very rare in any media.
The thing is you get the official word from Yang that she was eaten by Leviathan, and the characters readily and begrudgingly accept this, thus diminished any hope that she had survived. It really is tragic when you consider their relationship prior, which again is something I wished these subsequent re-releases would put more emphasis toward.
Look how damn sad it is, and that's just fan-art. This is how you breathe new life to your old games, Square!
Also found this amusing thing. It comes from a NSFW site, but if I don't directly link it you won't get the translation.
http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/278612/breasts-cape-cecil_harvey-death_note-final_fantasy
Amusing, because this is something I still wonder about to this day: they never have given an official word how the "time skip" thing works, but I always assumed it was like the link says, and made me wonder what would happen when she returns there at the end of the game.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Yes, I also love how the story was crappy, and there to make a good ending for FFX. I also love how you had to do side-quests and get perfects on mini-games to get a better ending.
And who's idea was that, anyway? "Oh, you gotta completely perfect this massaging mini-game that you're doing for the first time and will never do again, or you can't get best ending!"
XBL: GamingFreak5514
PSN: GamingFreak1234
yes, those certainly are tears running down her hideous pumpkin-shaped head
You don't need to do sidequests for the "good" ending, just for the "best" one and playing through once as each faction means you can skip some. (Don't actually know what happens in the best ending, got 99.7% trying for 100% in a single run.)
That hasn't got anything to do with the battle system so gone off at a tangent :P
The normal ending is the best one anyway, so it doesn't matter.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I know it's not the same people with the complaints, but it bugs me that this is considered the better, more mature ending for Yuna, but in Tactics Advance, oh no, everyone needs to get everything they want or Marche is an asshole.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
"No guys my Aryan life is perfect who cares how bad the rest of you have it"
That said, FFT:A is the most fun to play. A2 and WotL are sloooooooooooooooooooooow.
I like the normal ending better and agree with FFTAs ending!
TA: 300 missions done, 54 hours, party level 31 (100%)
A2: 112 quests completed, 34 hours, party level 33 (not even close :P)
Yeah, too many grumpy geese here; FFX-2's good ending is bittersweet and doesn't negate the original game's ending.
I have issues with the METHOD to how it was achieved....
but the actual FMV was well done.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Or maybe I'm wrong and completely making it up. I don't really remember now. :P
Oh, I have no qualms with the ending. But was everything before it necessary? They could've just as easily ended FFX with
But no, that would be too convenient, like FF9's ending.
XBL: GamingFreak5514
PSN: GamingFreak1234
Terra should have disappeared with the magic, Cloud and the entire human population was killed by Holy, and everything past Disc 1 was Squall's dream.
Depressing fuckers....
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Handmade Jewelry by me on EtsyGames for sale
Me on Twitch!
If there is any ending we should be complaining about, it's XIII's.
That would require us to play XIII.
I'm not ragging on it, I'm saying it was... convenient.
XBL: GamingFreak5514
PSN: GamingFreak1234
There's a very specific explanation for it. You might have missed it since it was in the Ultimania.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
...And once again, my mind comes up with something majorly fucked up.
And that is what my brain has come up with at 3:20am. I should probably go to sleep before my brain decides to think of anything else.
Such as how The Spirits Within actually led to the birth of FFVIII's world. Now there's a crazy one.
Then again, they revealed that FFX actually takes place in FFVII's past, so I'm perfectly willing to accept that all of the stories are somehow canonical to each other.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Did this actually happen or am I confused?
Not until the January conference.
It's that kind of talk that had people thinking that Aerith came back to life at the end of FFVII.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero