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Is gaming a dirty secret in the business world?
ReusableGore
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I am a senior in college, I will graduate with an accounting degree next May. This semester I have started my college's recruiting process to find an internship/job and have started brushing elbows with the top students I am competing with and recruiters for various firms. I am conflicted because I feel like my gaming history and interests would be a very bad thing to mention to a recruiter.
Gaming has been such a big part of my life there is no doubt in my mind it has helped make me who I am today. To leave that off a resume or not mention once seems not only dishonest, but disloyal to myself and the hobby. I have tried giving gaming up to become more professional, but I never can. While other students are out earning merit badges to put on their resume I'm home playing Civilization.
Are my feelings correct here? Would mentioning gaming be risking a job? Will it be something I have to hide my entire career?
Gaming has been such a big part of my life there is no doubt in my mind it has helped make me who I am today. To leave that off a resume or not mention once seems not only dishonest, but disloyal to myself and the hobby. I have tried giving gaming up to become more professional, but I never can. While other students are out earning merit badges to put on their resume I'm home playing Civilization.
Are my feelings correct here? Would mentioning gaming be risking a job? Will it be something I have to hide my entire career?
ReusableGore on
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and it's not about gaming being a 'dirty secret'. i'm a passionate amatuer cook, and love nothing more than to experiment with my risotto recipes and masala spices; that doesn't mean i'm going to highlight it on my resume when i'm seeking unrelated jobs in publishing
Sure, but you could mention loving to cook in an interview and probably get a positive reaction. Gaming, probably not.
I see that more of a creator vs consumer issue
If you wrote games in your free time, then it might be something interesting to talk about; talking about how you enjoy playing games, though, is like mentioning that you enjoy going out to restaurants to eat - who cares? Other than showing that you have free time and spend it doing something you enjoy, it doesn't tell them that you're motivated, or that you're creative, or that you can collaborate with people to create something.
I don't think there's some stigma against being a gamer. Heck at my company we have a chatroom specifically for all the people who play WoW.
I have competed professionally, won tournaments, led guilds, created maps/add-ons, etc. One of the reasons I love gaming so much is the ability to create and compete, limited only by your imagination.
Gaming could be used to show creativity, motivation, and collaboration all at the same time! It just seems to have a harsh stigma surrounding it that makes it an up-hill climb.
Not sure I'd agree w that 100%
I do agree showing creativity has more merit. But most people could talk about how they enjoy watching mainstream sports with a hiring manager/recruiter and no one would bat an eyelash at it. Gaming, to many people, still caries a connotation of immaturity with it.
Let me put it this way: I can play three different musical instruments fluently, and I can speak, read, and write Latin. These are pretty interesting skills that also have no real place on my resume as a mechanical engineer. If they come up during an interview or conversation, you can certainly mention it, but unless it's some sort of achievement that's both relevant to the job and something that's not mundane, I'd leave it off.
Unless the interviewer is part of the gaming community, he's probably going to look at you like you're fucking nuts.
You have a point. Gaming may not relate at all or may relate negatively to some people. There's a stereotype that someone who plays games a lot may not be able to socialize well, or will waste time at work, or is lazy. But I think this is due to a generational gap, not because people are in business or not. If it doesn't relate to the job I'd leave it off as people have said. I've even sometimes kept gaming off the interests of my facebook profile because certain people can stereotype you sooo wrong.
Also, cooking is a skill, not really in the category of entertainment, so it's just gonna seem more impressive. If you want to mention gaming, mention a positive aspect of it such as getting together with friends to play games. Anyone will be likely to be able to relate to that!
The question is, when? After they've hired you? Sure, you can talk about it. But nobody puts "Sports Enthusiast" or "Fantasy Football Expert" on their resume. If they ask what you do in your free time, being honest and saying "I play video games" probably isn't going to hurt you. But there is no reason to volunteer any information unless you're asked about it. And putting anything on your resume that's not 100% applicable to the job you're applying for is a bad idea.
I agree neither has a place in a resume (unless in a related field), but people can talk about their sports team(s) of preference or just general sports talk and it's accepted as a norm. Maybe the guy interviewing you doesn't care for that sport/team or even sports in general, but it's not going to really influence his opinion of you unless you go off the deep end of the pool with it... IE: A raving sports nutjob.
Even mentioning you are an avid gamer can inspire looks of disdain from many people. It's nowhere near as bad as it used to be, but it's still not something you can mention and be sure that it will, at the least, be a neutral impact.
The situation I'm in, the assumption is that all applicants have the same knowledge and ability. You have to have a 3.5 before most of these recruiters will even talk to you. What these firms are interested in is who/what you are beyond that ability everyone else has. I went to a recruiting event last week and one of the most popular questions I was asked was, "What do you do when not working?"
Despite this, I would never put gaming on my resume, or bring it up voluntarily in an interview. First reason: It is in no way a real marketable skill. This has been said earlier, but I feel it should be brought up again.
Secondly: Though many people play games, and enjoy them (like I said, I talk with my co-workers about games we play), they do still carry a social stigma, especially in the professional world. I agree with Esh that if you were to tell your interviewer that you have won professional gaming tourneys you would probably be passed up for someone who won a design award, or spent the summer at an internship gaining work experience.
Gaming is something I would wait to talk about until you can get a gauge on your co-workers to see if they share your interest in it.
It is creeping towards acceptability right now. The dance around the subject is funny, because a lot of people won't own up to it initially, but when someone else makes the first comment outside of "mixed" company a lot of people will admit to gaming, whether it's Madden, Farmville or "core" gaming. 20 Years from now? I'm hoping that its an acceptable coroprate expense to take a big client out for round of Rock Band X.
It seems you have already reached a decision about what you are going to do, so I am not sure why you asked H&A in the first place, even when everyone is telling you that it's not relevant.
It's OK to like games. It's OK to like gangsta rap. It's OK to get really fucking drunk at football matches and yell obscenities. Some people will respond to each one, some won't. It's not worth mentioning unless you're specifically asked. None of it is relevant to almost all job applications.
I understand your reasoning, but you're gambling on short odds. The "what do you do when not working" question really translates to "prove to me you have a passion for this particular job". They don't care about what you do outside of work unless it directly helps you inside of work. In Computer Science positions, a right answer would be "I work on an open-source project." A wrong answer is "I play a lot of games," even though it seems like it might be a good reply.
A couple examples for my situation: I love cooking so much that I went to culinary school. It helped me become a better leader, more efficient in my activities, and improved my communication skills. (Notice the point isn't that I like to cook, but that it made me a better prospective employee)
Another is that I enjoy reading accounting blogs and following accounting and financial news. It keeps me up to date on changing economic conditions.
The only real risk is that you're giving someone pointless information. I could tell the recruiter that I'm a big sports fan, but unless he likes Tennis/Football/MMA that part of the conversation is going to go no where.
And this is where you tell them what they want to hear. Gaming will not be it. You need to come up with an answer that tells them positive things about you that anyone can understand. You need to mention activities and interests that they will mentally be able to see at an instant the positive attributes those things have that translate to the work world.
That 3.5 requirement? That's not an assumption that everyone is equally skilled or able. It's a simple way to limit the pool, not an assumption that you're all equal.
I think the main thing here is that there is nothing wrong with playing games and they probably won't care at all that you do, provided that isn't the only thing you say.
Give a couple of answers, not just games and you'll probably be fine. If you go on a long rant about how much you love games, you spend all your time playing them, you run guilds, you make mods, etc etc they will probably think you're crazy. If you mention that you like to play video games and also do X, Y, and Z it won't be a big deal.
Edit: Also, after I mentioned games in my interview the CEO I was interviewing with went on to ask me what games I play and what appeals to me about them. It can provide a good opening to talk about other things, such as planning ability (RTSes), good snap judgement (FPSes), or leadership ability (guilds) provided you don't push it and you let the interviewer bring it up. If you mention it and they ignore it, don't bring it up again. However, it's not a bad thing to mention in case they are interested in discussing it.
A lot of old guys in suits* will also think that your gaming will cut into your work time, because you spend all your time playing those "addictive Warcraft Worlds online games"
If you mention gaming, there is a very small chance that the person hiring you will have a positive response above and beyond what they would have had if you didn't mention it. There is a bigger likelihood that the recruiter will have a problem with it. There is far greater value to be gained by not mentioning it.
Look, you're bringing this question to the Penny Arcade forums, the most gaming-friendly crowd in existence, and we're telling you it's not a good idea. Do you really think a random recruiter is going to be MORE positive than us?
It's an awesome hobby, and it sucks that people don't realize the positive qualities of thought and dedication that gaming can generate, but looking for a job is not the time to try to shake up the system. Do that after you get hired
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
In my experience it's not particularly frowned upon in the working world; you won't have to deliberately hide it or anything. I played StarCraft with 3 other guys (all of them more senior than I am) from my project team yesterday, and a few from elsewhere in the company. I did not mention this on my resume when seeking the position, however.
Do not bring it up in the interview unless you can sound really smart while discussing it. If you can't, pick another of your hobbies to talk about when they ask that question.
Also, video games are one of those hobbies that "normal" people often don't understand - like comics or D&D or anime. When I'm applying for a mundane job (especially in child care) I NEVER bring up the fact that I play D&D, even though it shows team building and an ability to plan, because there's a chance the person has negative associations. I do bring up the fact that I like board games and that I play Wii, because a lot of parents want someone their kids can identify with. It makes me seem hip and child-friendly while at the same time remaining utterly nonthreatening.
Similarly, when I'm interviewing for a games-related position I talk about all the games I've played passionately, but I try not to gush too much over their direct competitors. You just have to learn to judge your audience.
Triwizard Drinking Tournament - '09 !Hufflepuff unofficial conscript, '10 !Gryffindor
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Don't bring up WoW specifically, and don't try to defend your hobby or convert someone into a believer. It's not your job. You don't have a job. Your job is to get a job. Gushing about your obsessive hobby will only hurt you, and 99.99% of the time, fairly or not, that's what it will look like.
No one is saying hide who you are or never bring up video games or WoW. Just get the job first. Then feel free to talk about your hobbies with your colleagues. Just keep in mind that for many, there is a stigma, particularly among the older generations who didn't grow up with gaming. No one wants to hear their co-worker natter on about things they don't care about, whether it be WoW, chess, triathlon racing, or basket weaving. Don't bring it up unprompted, and don't feel obligated to talk about it in anything more than a cursory mention, and even if they ask you questions, don't get all defensive or go into too much detail.
See, this is far from typical. So far from typical that I know a Gamestop manager who, point blank, will only hire somebody who mentions they play an MMORPG if they don't raid, because it's hard to get raiders to take that last push before the raid reset off to come in and do a midnight launch.
There's enough of a stigma against video games that there's even a stigma amongst gamers about "other" gamers, be they "kiddy" Wii games, casual facebook games, or 40 hour a week raid schedules.
It's not the only hobby that's better not to mention. You'd be surprised the negative reaction that fishkeeping can get from most people.
The type of game can also make a difference. Everywhere I have ever worked in the last 5-8 years if you said "I like to get on xbox live and play Halo <insert number here> a couple times/week with friends" there's a good chance the response would be "yeah, me too". Not so much with MMOs, other RPGs, etc.
But really, as others have said, it's not going to come up unless you bring it up. I have ever only been asked about video games in one interview where some of the sample source code I provided the company was video game related.
I think the main problem with it are the words 'play' and 'games' as they seem juvenile. There really isn't a good way to discuss them in a formal situation like a job interview. Personally I'd leave them out and then once hired see if anyone else in the office is into them.
Ultimately everyone got a few unique skills, hobbies, and experiences. However the stuff you put on your resume is the things that you think your potential employer wants to hire you over and stuff that you can add positive value to the company. You shouldn't hand in the same resume for each job, but to change things a little to suit the needs and requirement of that particular position you are hiring (but don't lie) So in fact, depending on how the corporate culture of the company, playing video games might even be a positive depending on people you'll end up working with.
As an example, I play double bass. Not professionally, but as a hobby, and it's something that I'm quite happy about and I have improved significantly over the past couple years. Does this belong on a resume? It depends. Will the people doing the hiring value creativity? Will they have similar interests, or think it's "cool" even though they aren't into music? Some of the best resumes have surprising elements, but some of the worst will completely misjudge their target. If I dabble with guitar in a garage band, I would likely not put that on a resume because most people interpret playing guitar in a bar band as a juvenile hobby. Most people interpret "contrabass" as classical music, though, which implies intelligence and creativity. Would I clarify that I may actually play contrabass with a bar band? No, that's not the impression I would want to give.
It's similar with video games. If I read on a resume "Hobbies: Video games," I would interpret it to mean that you view it as important in your life but that you would probably call out sick on launch days or potentially come in late after your raid days. If your resume stated instead "Hobbies: Amateur coding for video games," I would interpret that to mean that you like the challenge of learning more about the details of something you're interested in. Obviously the implication is that you also play video games, but it is not the central focus -- your creative input into the hobby is.
A resume or interview is brief and should focus on the best qualities of you as a person, which also means that you should gloss over the boring or common stuff. Someone who has tons of merit badges and frat associations isn't going to put "I really love watching Dancing With The Stars" on their resume, and it's unlikely that during an interview they would state that they spend their freetime "watching TV and drinking with friends." Video games are generally grouped in with passive leisure activities. That means that if you feel strongly about including it, you need to turn it around and show how you are active in a creative pursuit, rather than passive in leisure.