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Dealing with players who like to make trouble
Inx
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Okay guys, I've been thinking and thinking and I just cant think of a good solution:
We have, in our group, a couple of guys who like to make evil characters in predominantly good aligned games. Normally, I have no problem with that. Except, they consistently cause trouble for the party and detract from the process of the storyline. Aside from the current case (a neutral evil half vampire who cares only about himself basically just turned the party in for a conspiracy to kill a political figure, which was a contract he himself had taken on and we knew nothing about), the most recent case of a halfling rogue/invisible blade COMPLETELY derailing the plot of the game for something he refused to tell the party about in-character (we all knew the deal out of character - and as far as the characters knew, what he was doing and telling us we should do was the job we were on), thus making it impossible for the other players to do anything of real worth - we did some shitty guard duty, we came up with plans to counteract forces that didn't even exist, etc. By the end of that game, only two of the other PC's were in on it in any manner, and half the players were completely disinterested.
So, my point is, what's a nice, subtle way to discourage other people from playing characters like this, that potentially ruin the fun of the game for others?
We have, in our group, a couple of guys who like to make evil characters in predominantly good aligned games. Normally, I have no problem with that. Except, they consistently cause trouble for the party and detract from the process of the storyline. Aside from the current case (a neutral evil half vampire who cares only about himself basically just turned the party in for a conspiracy to kill a political figure, which was a contract he himself had taken on and we knew nothing about), the most recent case of a halfling rogue/invisible blade COMPLETELY derailing the plot of the game for something he refused to tell the party about in-character (we all knew the deal out of character - and as far as the characters knew, what he was doing and telling us we should do was the job we were on), thus making it impossible for the other players to do anything of real worth - we did some shitty guard duty, we came up with plans to counteract forces that didn't even exist, etc. By the end of that game, only two of the other PC's were in on it in any manner, and half the players were completely disinterested.
So, my point is, what's a nice, subtle way to discourage other people from playing characters like this, that potentially ruin the fun of the game for others?
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Or, get some GM balls and tell him unless he makes something that fits the campaign, he can sit around bored like he has caused other players to do because of his antics.
I really don't get why people put up with this.
Admittedly you don't need to browbeat them in front of the rest of the group, but just take them to them one side and tell them that they're ruining the game for everyone else, you git.
Y'see, if you don't tell people you/the group has issues with their OOC or IC behaviour, there's a good chance they're not even aware of the kind of problems they're causing. Or they're bastards trying to call you out. So either way you win...
If they blow you off, then clear with the GM the right for the rest of the party to kill there asses. Make them go through the whole rigamarole of making new characters and then kill em again. After you've done this a few times, ask them If they'd like to be good little players and not screw over anyone else.
you could change the game to be a competition between the players, but that might damage the enjoyment of the players not them. You could ask them to leave, but it seems that that is not a desireable outcome. The only other suggestion I have it to make your creative agenda explicit so that everyone knows what the game is about, and what kind of social contract they are engaging in if they play. Develop in-game consequences for their actions--not lame "the guards take you to jail" excuses, but more like "I've polled the other party members, you awake to find that they've left early and taken your bags."
It's perfectly fine for you to draw the line and say "no, you can't play a character like that because it will disrupt the whole game" because if you don't then you're wasting everyones time.
As mentioned, try talking to them? It doesn't sound like you're running a 100% sandbox game where anything goes, so tell them as much, maybe they'll shape up. If not then you dump them.
If you can get one of them to play a Paladin, or a cleric of a good deity, and use detect evil on all their potential compatriots, refusing to take along anyone who's evil, you've pretty much taken care of the problem.
Works for me, but then, my players aren't douches.
Like, in real life.
See, don't go for any of that passive-aggressive shit. It just makes things worse. If a player is creating a problem, discuss the matter out of game.
If they are long time friends of yours, just coax them into playing a good aligned character so at least everyone else can have fun. This may or may not solve things, as they probably still will be goofs.
If they're new, kick them to the curb.
We used to have this jackoff in our group who would fucking ruin everyoen elses 'shining RP moments' with his jackoff characters. Finally we just told him to stop doing it or we're playing without him. He said he was just trying to be funny, but god is it aggravating when a buddy ruins your shining character defining moment by charging in when you're trying to roleplay.
Additionally, i think it's up to the PC's to act in a manner that fits with how well they know and trust someone. Why would people do gaurd duty for some guy that wouldn't tell them what he was doing? If they don't trust him, why go out of your way to help him?
For me, it comes down to this: Every PC needs to know why he's there and what (s)he wants to be doing. If you meet some random new dude cuz someone re-rolled or whatever, okay, suspend disbelief to get them in the party to a point. New guy shouldn't be able to hijack shit, he's in the "ridin' bitch" position of, the party is going HERE and doing THIS, you're come to come along, but, um, that's what we're doing.
On an aside, some of the problem might be, um, the half vampire in a party of good characters. btw, what is a half vampire? he can eat food but still needs blood? We talking Blade here?
There is an unspoken, understood, don't be stupid, clause in all gaming groups--and if there isn't, there needs to be or you get situations like that.
Then again if he hates playing that class then that doesnt work as well. Anouther idea is to get more backstory on how all the characters know each other, if the annoying player is the brother of one of the other players characters than killing him off is a bit less casual generally. Or if the backstory is that he is going with them because player X saved his life etc etc.
Or take a look at his intellegence and wisdom and charisma scores. If any of them are low enough he cant really trick them that easily. If he has a charasma of 8 he is not going to nessarily be able to convince them to undertake stupid action #51 because the chacters have realized something is up and seen through his lies etc etc.
Trying to work it out in the game world does make sense sometimes because people generally like playing that type of character, and this way it allows them to play a secretive and semi evil character but not be dicks about it, due to the consequences of their actions.
A half vampire is basically Blade. None of their weaknesses, some of their strengths. Basicallt theyre vampires for people who dont wanna be turnable.
And right now, as a character, I'm discouraging it by never healing him. And, being the only healer in the group, that can get annoying for sure. I also just generally treat him like I would someone who kicked my dog.
Hopefully it comes down to me kicking his ass.
This is the only way to go.
If you do any of that limp-wristed shit I read in this thread, they'll straighten up for a session or two and then go right back to their same old shit, and they'll start taking it out on any players that they see as getting the GM's favor, even if they aren't.
And Inx, if you're the GM, don't let them play stupid shit like that.
"I wanna play a character like Blade."
Fine. Go find someone who runs a fucking Marvel RPG. You want to play a vampire? Go join a White Wolf game. You want to act like being Evil gives you the right to be an asshole 24/7? Fine. But you won't be getting any XP for stupid shitass things you do that are outside of the storyline.
Oh, and you can also just tell them to stop showing up if they can't stop acting like assholes.
Also, the GM who allowed that needs to be hit to. You hit them and you say, No.
That said, i disagree with the out of game discussions IF the real problem is with the character and not the player. If the player is the problem--making jokes constantly or not paying attention or just taking up WAY too much time, etc--then deal with the player. If the issue is the character, then deal with the character. In this instance you go up to the nearest town gaurd and say, Yo, that guy's a vampire!
Problem solved.
Really though, you all need to confront the character and Panksea makes a good point--why the hell is this character in the party anyway? The characters in the party need to be very aware of that--and it seems like you guys are good with the diferentiation between IC and OOC--but you can't do things as a party if some jackoff who really has no hold over the party members is controlling where you all go and what you do. I think just a detailed examination and forthright in game action is the solution.
Like in the example in the OP of him turning the party in for a reward, the DM should simply say something like "OK, you got your money and a warm thanks from the political figure" and then focus exclusively on the party, coming up with some way for them to survive their encounter and ultimately prevail. No more attention needs to be paid, in-game or out-of-game, to the bad player because the focus of the "story" is on what happens to the party, and he has consciously excluded his character from the party's adventures. If he presses, maybe the DM will tell him that the characters may try to hunt him down, but at this point the "bad guy" character is more manageable as an NPC than a PC villain.
The player just threw his character away, and when the party escapes their fate, they're not going to be likely to pick up any new people (re-rolled characters).