alright I just tested it and its not so bad. The reaper CAN get in the base before the first zealot is even finished, but the toss should be able to chronoboost out a stalker around the second or third reaper is done. Then the toss can just march to victory.
So unless your original plan was to go straight core, then you are pretty much screwed.
Reapers can be in your base by 3:00 in.
Honestly, a 6 rax reaper rush is not difficult for a toss to deal with. First, you should always drop a cyber core asap against terran - you need ranged units asap to deal with any early pushes, b/c zealots are infinitely kitable. Second, the first reaper will be there long before the cyber core is done. All you do is grab 5 probes from your line and set them to attack the reaper (the key is to not overreact and attack with or run away with all the workers. By chasing the reaper with a few of them, you force the terran to micro while the rest of your probes continue to mine. By the time he can slowly wear down the first few attack probes the stalker should be nearly out. Plus, you have the off chance of catching the reaper and surrounding it with the probes - this seems to happen often when I go up against reaper rushing terran as I don't think they're very good in general). Do the same with the zealot when he gets out. As soon as the cyber core finishes, chrono a stalker. Crisis averted.
I mean yeah thats what I kinda wrote. Going for super early stalker stops it. Even then I could see a plat or below player get really flustered by such an early reaper. This is 1v1.
In 2v2, if its a terran and zerg both pretty much six pooling the only thing to stop that is to wall in completely. I pretty much think that its a gg for any toss player getting hit by that.
wakkawa on
0
MaratastikJust call me Mara, please!Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
Definitely was not disagreeing with you. Just throwing in my 2 cents.
alright I just tested it and its not so bad. The reaper CAN get in the base before the first zealot is even finished, but the toss should be able to chronoboost out a stalker around the second or third reaper is done. Then the toss can just march to victory.
So unless your original plan was to go straight core, then you are pretty much screwed.
Reapers can be in your base by 3:00 in.
Honestly, a 6 rax reaper rush is not difficult for a toss to deal with. First, you should always drop a cyber core asap against terran - you need ranged units asap to deal with any early pushes, b/c zealots are infinitely kitable. Second, the first reaper will be there long before the cyber core is done. All you do is grab 5 probes from your line and set them to attack the reaper (the key is to not overreact and attack with or run away with all the workers. By chasing the reaper with a few of them, you force the terran to micro while the rest of your probes continue to mine. By the time he can slowly wear down the first few attack probes the stalker should be nearly out. Plus, you have the off chance of catching the reaper and surrounding it with the probes - this seems to happen often when I go up against reaper rushing terran as I don't think they're very good in general). Do the same with the zealot when he gets out. As soon as the cyber core finishes, chrono a stalker. Crisis averted.
I mean yeah thats what I kinda wrote. Going for super early stalker stops it. Even then I could see a plat or below player get really flustered by such an early reaper. This is 1v1.
In 2v2, if its a terran and zerg both pretty much six pooling the only thing to stop that is to wall in completely. I pretty much think that its a gg for any toss player getting hit by that.
The basic toss build is always gate->core with a zealot and stalker popping out, in that order. the zealot won't slow down either the core or the stalker, if you have the build down correclty.
Nothin' like lookin' up your opponent's build order in their match history, seeing he doesn't build very many units, and then 5 roach rushing him. Mmmm.
2 Gate Stargate seems to be pretty cool. It's gotten me two wins against zerg so far, and I think it'll work pretty well against the other races.
I've got to get better about spending my resources though. There's way too many minerals in my bank after I expand.
how the hell do you have minerals to expand with 2 warp/2 stargates? not constant production?
but, if you're floaing minerals, drop more production buildings. a robo or two, and a couple more gates will do it.
The upgrade at the fleet beacon for the VRs (and Carriers) is a worthwhile money sink.
bu, how on earth do you have resources to expand, and then float with 2/2?
It's 2 gate, 1 stargate. Zealots, one sentry, one stalker, and a bunch of phoenixes.
I start floating minerals after I expand, which is around the time I have 5 phoenixes and start harassing mineral lines. I couldn't support 2 stargates and 2 gates on one base.
GoodKingJayIII on
Battletag: Threeve#1501
PSN: Threeve703
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
gsl is great in so many ways. high level games and also the realization that a fair amount of these players, while greatly outplaying me, aren't that good. it's better than watching 64 of the absolute best in a way...
2 Gate Stargate seems to be pretty cool. It's gotten me two wins against zerg so far, and I think it'll work pretty well against the other races.
I've got to get better about spending my resources though. There's way too many minerals in my bank after I expand.
how the hell do you have minerals to expand with 2 warp/2 stargates? not constant production?
but, if you're floaing minerals, drop more production buildings. a robo or two, and a couple more gates will do it.
The upgrade at the fleet beacon for the VRs (and Carriers) is a worthwhile money sink.
bu, how on earth do you have resources to expand, and then float with 2/2?
It's 2 gate, 1 stargate. Zealots, one sentry, one stalker, and a bunch of phoenixes.
I start floating minerals after I expand, which is around the time I have 5 phoenixes and start harassing mineral lines. I couldn't support 2 stargates and 2 gates on one base.
ok, that makes a helluva lot more sense. but basically, once you expand, you can support more production structures, right? Drop several gates, a robo and twilight. poof, float problem gone, and you'll be rolling in units in a minute or two.
-- on edit --
but... if you're 1 gate/2stargating, why arent you pumping VRs and LOLRaying their base instead of probe harassment? I mean, you probably won't have gas for anything but rays, and a fast expand is out of the question... but... pretty instawin if they don't have a crapload of anti-air ready, and in position...
gsl is great in so many ways. high level games and also the realization that a fair amount of these players, while greatly outplaying me, aren't that good. it's better than watching 64 of the absolute best in a way...
I like that everyone can qualify in sc2
And if you just do a lot of cheese you can even win some money, ie Davit!
Has anyone been having problems with SC2 gears since update? I've also updated my JVM in the midst, so it could be either, but its throwing tons of exceptions and parse errors when i try to look at an analyze replay....
--- on edit ---
Fuck, they changed the sc2 saved file format w/1.1, and its not supported yet as per author of sc2gears:
---
Yes, it looks like something was changed in the replay format, Sc2gears
cannot handle 1.1 replays. I will add support to 1.1 replays soon.
---
Blizzard changed more things than I expected. I don't know when it will be
ready.
---
who the hell do they think they are, Microsoft? Serious annoying BS. At least it still can automatically save the replays. I wouldn't be surprised if they (Activision) started putting reps into a DB, only accessible through some convoluted in game menu. Color me Grrrr.
but... if you're 1 gate/2stargating, why arent you pumping VRs and LOLRaying their base instead of probe harassment? I mean, you probably won't have gas for anything but rays, and a fast expand is out of the question... but... pretty instawin if they don't have a crapload of anti-air ready, and in position...
it's not 1 gate, 2 stargate. It's 2 gate, 1 stargate. Basically a variation on 2gate/robo. Void rays are slow and a complete waste in the early game. Phoenixes are faster, cheaper, great for scouting, and excellent for picking off workers and anything else caught by itself. Void rays show up later to back up zealots with charge.
Any halfway decent player can deal with a few void rays easily in the early game. Phoenixes are much better at making the other guy feel uncomfortable.
but... if you're 1 gate/2stargating, why arent you pumping VRs and LOLRaying their base instead of probe harassment? I mean, you probably won't have gas for anything but rays, and a fast expand is out of the question... but... pretty instawin if they don't have a crapload of anti-air ready, and in position...
it's not 1 gate, 2 stargate. It's 2 gate, 1 stargate. Basically a variation on 2gate/robo. Void rays are slow and a complete waste in the early game. Phoenixes are faster, cheaper, great for scouting, and excellent for picking off workers and anything else caught by itself. Void rays show up later to back up zealots with charge.
Any halfway decent player can deal with a few void rays easily in the early game. Phoenixes are much better at making the other guy feel uncomfortable.
Not perfect play by any means, but have a look.
i apparently have a reading comprehension problem tonight. sorry for the confusion.
Has anyone been having problems with SC2 gears since update? I've also updated my JVM in the midst, so it could be either, but its throwing tons of exceptions and parse errors when i try to look at an analyze replay....
--- on edit ---
Fuck, they changed the sc2 saved file format w/1.1, and its not supported yet as per author of sc2gears:
---
Yes, it looks like something was changed in the replay format, Sc2gears
cannot handle 1.1 replays. I will add support to 1.1 replays soon.
---
Blizzard changed more things than I expected. I don't know when it will be
ready.
---
who the hell do they think they are, Microsoft? Serious annoying BS. At least it still can automatically save the replays. I wouldn't be surprised if they (Activision) started putting reps into a DB, only accessible through some convoluted in game menu. Color me Grrrr.
They always change something in the replays with every new version. In the beta the replay upload sites didn't work for a few days after every patch because of this. Whether they are doing it to obstruct replay analyzers or just changing data due to version updates is anyone's guess.
By the way, I was testing out the 7% early mining boost and did it the lazy way: select all workers and hold down C (or whatever it is on grid). Watching the replay showed me having an APM of up to 800.
I think I am going to do this from now on to make people wonder how the hell I am getting my APM so high without click spamming like a spaz.
Has anyone been having problems with SC2 gears since update? I've also updated my JVM in the midst, so it could be either, but its throwing tons of exceptions and parse errors when i try to look at an analyze replay....
--- on edit ---
Fuck, they changed the sc2 saved file format w/1.1, and its not supported yet as per author of sc2gears:
---
Yes, it looks like something was changed in the replay format, Sc2gears
cannot handle 1.1 replays. I will add support to 1.1 replays soon.
---
Blizzard changed more things than I expected. I don't know when it will be
ready.
---
who the hell do they think they are, Microsoft? Serious annoying BS. At least it still can automatically save the replays. I wouldn't be surprised if they (Activision) started putting reps into a DB, only accessible through some convoluted in game menu. Color me Grrrr.
They always change something in the replays with every new version. In the beta the replay upload sites didn't work for a few days after every patch because of this. Whether they are doing it to obstruct replay analyzers or just changing data due to version updates is anyone's guess.
By the way, I was testing out the 7% early mining boost and did it the lazy way: select all workers and hold down C (or whatever it is on grid). Watching the replay showed me having an APM of up to 800.
I think I am going to do this from now on to make people wonder how the hell I am getting my APM so high without click spamming like a spaz.
that is a brilliant way to mineral boost why didn't I think of that.
edit: something about the command not being available until they finish mining + latency = very little effect if any if you're not queuing it
No, if you hold C down, you are sending the command like 5 times a second at least. As soon as the command is on the card, it is hit, so it works just the same as queuing, but with less micro work. Obviously the tradeoff is once you go do something else it stops working. Whether or not it actually increases income enough to be worth it is not my concern.
I just want to inflate my APM without looking like a spaz. :P
Edit: Didn't think about the latency part, but my workers appeared to return cargo faster than normal. Still, I can show off my 800+ APM to spectators/replay viewers.
It doesn't help that I'm being put up against 1250+ diamonds (Who, coincidentally, were all first in their league) and I still lose to shit like proxy gateways and baneling busts.
Alright so I played a 1v1 ladder game today (yes, I actually laddered! holy shit).
According to the replay, I had over 1000 APM during the initial mining phase. My average APM tapered down from 300 to 200 to 150 for most of the game before settling on 100ish (my actual APM was probably like 40-60).
However, I realized why I lost so hard after making such a huge army.
Apparently when I sent a strike team of roaches into my nydus network to the enemy's base, my entire army went in there as well.
Promoting someone into 1st place from a lower league is a dick move bliz.
Ezekiel on
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
Too bad they remove it, the game needs small obscure tricks like this.
Someone figured out how to elevator troops insanely fast with dropships, thanks to their loading range being a bit further than where they drop troops. So park it right at the edge of a cliff, get troops in, unload, get in etc. Can get troops up really fast that way if given a few seconds.
Posts
I mean yeah thats what I kinda wrote. Going for super early stalker stops it. Even then I could see a plat or below player get really flustered by such an early reaper. This is 1v1.
In 2v2, if its a terran and zerg both pretty much six pooling the only thing to stop that is to wall in completely. I pretty much think that its a gg for any toss player getting hit by that.
how the hell do you have minerals to expand with 2 warp/2 stargates? not constant production?
but, if you're floaing minerals, drop more production buildings. a robo or two, and a couple more gates will do it.
The upgrade at the fleet beacon for the VRs (and Carriers) is a worthwhile money sink.
bu, how on earth do you have resources to expand, and then float with 2/2?
Joe's Stream.
The basic toss build is always gate->core with a zealot and stalker popping out, in that order. the zealot won't slow down either the core or the stalker, if you have the build down correclty.
Joe's Stream.
its a fun experience!
They can friend you without any acceptance on your part, though.
I wonder if it looks like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_I73d1f3eA
yes
Because it is hilarious
I would take you up on it if I had access to my gaming rig right now.
Also, which one of you all are captainJLpicard?
if you wanna, play, i may be on in a couple. so, sure. i mean, its not like i havent lost before.
Joe's Stream.
It's 2 gate, 1 stargate. Zealots, one sentry, one stalker, and a bunch of phoenixes.
I start floating minerals after I expand, which is around the time I have 5 phoenixes and start harassing mineral lines. I couldn't support 2 stargates and 2 gates on one base.
PSN: Threeve703
I like that everyone can qualify in sc2
ok, that makes a helluva lot more sense. but basically, once you expand, you can support more production structures, right? Drop several gates, a robo and twilight. poof, float problem gone, and you'll be rolling in units in a minute or two.
-- on edit --
but... if you're 1 gate/2stargating, why arent you pumping VRs and LOLRaying their base instead of probe harassment? I mean, you probably won't have gas for anything but rays, and a fast expand is out of the question... but... pretty instawin if they don't have a crapload of anti-air ready, and in position...
Joe's Stream.
And if you just do a lot of cheese you can even win some money, ie Davit!
--- on edit ---
Fuck, they changed the sc2 saved file format w/1.1, and its not supported yet as per author of sc2gears:
---
Yes, it looks like something was changed in the replay format, Sc2gears
cannot handle 1.1 replays. I will add support to 1.1 replays soon.
---
Blizzard changed more things than I expected. I don't know when it will be
ready.
---
who the hell do they think they are, Microsoft? Serious annoying BS. At least it still can automatically save the replays. I wouldn't be surprised if they (Activision) started putting reps into a DB, only accessible through some convoluted in game menu. Color me Grrrr.
Joe's Stream.
it's not 1 gate, 2 stargate. It's 2 gate, 1 stargate. Basically a variation on 2gate/robo. Void rays are slow and a complete waste in the early game. Phoenixes are faster, cheaper, great for scouting, and excellent for picking off workers and anything else caught by itself. Void rays show up later to back up zealots with charge.
Any halfway decent player can deal with a few void rays easily in the early game. Phoenixes are much better at making the other guy feel uncomfortable.
Not perfect play by any means, but have a look.
PSN: Threeve703
i apparently have a reading comprehension problem tonight. sorry for the confusion.
Joe's Stream.
They always change something in the replays with every new version. In the beta the replay upload sites didn't work for a few days after every patch because of this. Whether they are doing it to obstruct replay analyzers or just changing data due to version updates is anyone's guess.
By the way, I was testing out the 7% early mining boost and did it the lazy way: select all workers and hold down C (or whatever it is on grid). Watching the replay showed me having an APM of up to 800.
I think I am going to do this from now on to make people wonder how the hell I am getting my APM so high without click spamming like a spaz.
SC2 NA: exoplasm.519 | PA SC2 Mumble Server | My Website | My Stream
that is a brilliant way to mineral boost why didn't I think of that.
edit: something about the command not being available until they finish mining + latency = very little effect if any if you're not queuing it
No, if you hold C down, you are sending the command like 5 times a second at least. As soon as the command is on the card, it is hit, so it works just the same as queuing, but with less micro work. Obviously the tradeoff is once you go do something else it stops working. Whether or not it actually increases income enough to be worth it is not my concern.
I just want to inflate my APM without looking like a spaz. :P
Edit: Didn't think about the latency part, but my workers appeared to return cargo faster than normal. Still, I can show off my 800+ APM to spectators/replay viewers.
SC2 NA: exoplasm.519 | PA SC2 Mumble Server | My Website | My Stream
It'll be removed eventually anyway.
Storm is OP vs Terran Bio balls.
That is all.
(My templars had a field day vs a guy who should have beaten me about 5 times during 30min+ match)
It doesn't help that I'm being put up against 1250+ diamonds (Who, coincidentally, were all first in their league) and I still lose to shit like proxy gateways and baneling busts.
According to the replay, I had over 1000 APM during the initial mining phase. My average APM tapered down from 300 to 200 to 150 for most of the game before settling on 100ish (my actual APM was probably like 40-60).
However, I realized why I lost so hard after making such a huge army.
Apparently when I sent a strike team of roaches into my nydus network to the enemy's base, my entire army went in there as well.
But they never came out.
SC2 NA: exoplasm.519 | PA SC2 Mumble Server | My Website | My Stream
I'm terrified what is to come
thank god they are removing this
Someone figured out how to elevator troops insanely fast with dropships, thanks to their loading range being a bit further than where they drop troops. So park it right at the edge of a cliff, get troops in, unload, get in etc. Can get troops up really fast that way if given a few seconds.