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landlord refuses to return property. what do i do?
Grimm
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Long Version:
Last month i was given a 30 day eviction notice in person by my landlord. She says the gas man told her the house was dirty. I of course am wondering when and why was there a gas man in the house without my knowledge or consent. This has happened several times with her sending people into the house without notice and is the reason i'm not fighting the eviction. I just don't feel safe leaving my things there while im out. Other then some dust and a sink full of dirty dishes, i don't feel it was all that bad anyways.
She tells me i need to have my stuff out by a certain date, i say ok. She then says i need to clean the house when i leave, i say ok. She goes on to say that when the house is clean, she will unlock her garage and i can remove my quad. This immediately sends up a red flag with me but since i had nowhere else to store it at the time, i just let it go for the moment. I don't speak with her for a couple weeks until she comes to see me as im moving some things out one afternoon. She becomes very hostel with me as soon as she sees im not going to bend over backwards to meet her other demands and drives off.
Another couple weeks later (today) i go to return the keys and ask when would be a good time to retrieve the quad. She informs me that she will not unlock the garage until the end of the month so she can make sure all my utility bills are paid, (all bills are in my name) and she sees what it is going to cost to repair the three things she claims i damaged. One of these items was damaged when i moved in and she agreed to fix it but i didn't get it in writing. Now she claims she has pictures to prove it wasn't broke before. The second was a light switch that stopped working. I had gotten a new switch to install but when she evicted me, i really just didn't care about it anymore so it never got replaced. The third item was a clogged sink in the basement that other then the washing machine draining into, i never used. I had replaced the drain pipe leading into the ground on my own and was able to unclog one side of the sink but not the other.
I admit i should have told her about these last two problems but after the first issue not being fixed along with a few others, i just figured it would be easier if i did it myself. She also claims that she will need to hire someone to clean the house since the person i hired didn't do a good enough job. The ceiling fans were dusty and she feels the walls should have been washed down but considering the paint is peeling off bad in several spots, i don't smoke, and they looked fine to me, i don't see why i need to wash them.
So until all these issues are resolved, she plans on holding my security deposit and my quad. I could just go cut the lock off the garage but i don't want to be arrested for breaking and entering.
Short Version:
I moved out, shes holding my security deposit and my property until her demands are met.
Last month i was given a 30 day eviction notice in person by my landlord. She says the gas man told her the house was dirty. I of course am wondering when and why was there a gas man in the house without my knowledge or consent. This has happened several times with her sending people into the house without notice and is the reason i'm not fighting the eviction. I just don't feel safe leaving my things there while im out. Other then some dust and a sink full of dirty dishes, i don't feel it was all that bad anyways.
She tells me i need to have my stuff out by a certain date, i say ok. She then says i need to clean the house when i leave, i say ok. She goes on to say that when the house is clean, she will unlock her garage and i can remove my quad. This immediately sends up a red flag with me but since i had nowhere else to store it at the time, i just let it go for the moment. I don't speak with her for a couple weeks until she comes to see me as im moving some things out one afternoon. She becomes very hostel with me as soon as she sees im not going to bend over backwards to meet her other demands and drives off.
Another couple weeks later (today) i go to return the keys and ask when would be a good time to retrieve the quad. She informs me that she will not unlock the garage until the end of the month so she can make sure all my utility bills are paid, (all bills are in my name) and she sees what it is going to cost to repair the three things she claims i damaged. One of these items was damaged when i moved in and she agreed to fix it but i didn't get it in writing. Now she claims she has pictures to prove it wasn't broke before. The second was a light switch that stopped working. I had gotten a new switch to install but when she evicted me, i really just didn't care about it anymore so it never got replaced. The third item was a clogged sink in the basement that other then the washing machine draining into, i never used. I had replaced the drain pipe leading into the ground on my own and was able to unclog one side of the sink but not the other.
I admit i should have told her about these last two problems but after the first issue not being fixed along with a few others, i just figured it would be easier if i did it myself. She also claims that she will need to hire someone to clean the house since the person i hired didn't do a good enough job. The ceiling fans were dusty and she feels the walls should have been washed down but considering the paint is peeling off bad in several spots, i don't smoke, and they looked fine to me, i don't see why i need to wash them.
So until all these issues are resolved, she plans on holding my security deposit and my quad. I could just go cut the lock off the garage but i don't want to be arrested for breaking and entering.
Short Version:
I moved out, shes holding my security deposit and my property until her demands are met.
Grimm on
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I agree with everything you said. I already spoke to the local magistrate. He said he is not allowed to give me legal advice. I am welcome to try calling the police but they may not help. They might decide its a civil matter and tell me to take her to court. I realize it most likely will come to that but im really hoping to keep this out of court. I work alot of hours and i just dont want to miss a days pay to deal with her. Not to mention the boss being able to spare me for the day.
Or be patient and wait it out.
Also, do NOT cut the lock off the garage and take it back. That is definitely illegal regardless of if your property is in there.
Yeah, no.
IANAL, but I know in some states, like here in Minnesota, people are allowed to hold the possessions of another person if that person owes you money and won't pay. I don't know how it exactly works where you live, OP, but there might be a statute that says something like that. Your landlord believes you owe them money, or will, so following that statute they are able to hold onto your possessions. I'd be a bit leery because I've never heard of anything that says they're allowed to hold onto your things before you owe them money, but by calling the cops and making it out that she's just seizing your property without any reason won't do you any good. She'll just show up and say that you owe her money, and it's legal to keep them until you pay her back, and the cops will smile and drive away. They're not there to settle such a dispute, this is what courts are for.
I'd really recommend you speak to a local lawyer over this, because there's no way we can know all the local statutes where you live (where ever that is). What I mean is, it's good to know if there is a statute or something, or if there's any way she's able to hold onto your possessions in such a manner.
Also, my state has a rule that says the security deposit has to be returned within X days with documentation of required repairs and associated costs, after which point the landlord owes triple the security deposit. You should check to see if there's something similar for your state, since it would motivate her to settle things sooner rather than later.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Request receipts for any work which she takes from your deposit to keep her honest. At least in my state, if a landlord skimps and you take them to court, you can be awarded up to three times your deposit.
This is subjective to lease & statutes, but it sounds like some of those issues really aren't a tenant's responsibility in general if they occur in general wear of a place, if argued in court you may not even be determined to be responsible for at least some of this.
It sounds like you are 100% out now? If not I would tidy up a bit more, fix what else you can, and take pictures.
Um, YMMV by state, but I would be 90% sure that such a clause is not enforceable. About 90% of what are in those contracts are generally overreach by landlords, who are counting on you being too stupid or timid to assert your rights.
You (potentially) owe her for any damage done to the property and maybe cleaning costs depending on your lease, and local law may or may not allow her to hold your property in lieu of cash payment. But she certainly cannot hold your property as collateral against future possible charges. She can either present you a bill, immediately and in writing and give you the chance to contest or pay it, or she can shut the fuck up and let you access your property.
ed: also, I would absolutely call the police. Police are smart enough to realize when someone's feeding them bullshit, especially when it's as simple as saying "she won't give me a bill and I want my property."
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Honestly I am reading this act and have no idea what it means, you WILL need a lawyer as others have said above. She will probably try and sell your property to fix up the place, which I doubt is legal as the act only seems to cover seizing it for rent.
Also sorry what is the value of this item and exactly what is it (sorry if it's slang I don't understand).
Oh and also thank you, I got some interesting reading in.
From what i found, she has thirty days in Pennsylvania to either give me a list of things she had to have repaired and what each cost, or refund the security deposit. If she fails to do this, i'm allowed to sue her for twice the amount and possibly court cost as well.
There was nothing like that in the lease.
The item is a 1991 Honda Fourtrax. I do not know the current value.
If you expect it back get a lawyer (or legal advise of some form). From my perspective I wouldn't trust your landlord if she said the sky was blue and birds fly. Sorry you had such a tough time with this one though. Also you might want to look over your tenant agreement if you have a copy still, in PA its possible to put in one of those that you have to fix and pay for upkeep like rusted pipes and other things that are in no way your fault.
I didnt hire a company to clean. A woman i know cleaned the place. She scrubbed out the bathroom, washed the kitchen and bathroom floors, wiped out the sink, counter, fridge, cleaned the oven, vacumed, etc.
Theoretically, yes it would. From what i understand, shes broken the law more then once already here but i don't want to risk getting myself arrested.
This is a terrible idea. All this will do is make any judge the case comes across sympathetic to the landlord, rather than the OP. Go through a lawyer, take photographs, get all the documents you can.
But don't resort to theft. That won't lead anywhere good, even if you do get away with it.
she needs to provide you an itemized list and cost of deductions and/or any recepts that she has to show proof of work and that it was a legitimate expense. if she doesn't than she can't legally withhold that and you can take her to court.
i would just be patient about the quad. wait for the end of the clause, if its thirty days send her a certified letter on the last week with the jist being if you don't release my property by this day i will file suit.
if you cut her lock you get busted for destruction of property/breaking and entering
you were served an eviction notice without cause, she failed to perform a proper walk through at the beginning and end of the lease, she has no interest in your utility bills, was supposed to be giving you reasonable notice before entering the property or having someone else enter the property (except to make emergency repairs) and she absolutely cannot just fucking steal your quad and keep it locked up. The only situations where that is possible is a mechanic's lien or something similar.
your only real mistakes were not getting a record of the property as it was when you moved in and not getting advice earlier. I think this is a shakedown. She wants to keep your deposit illegitimately and thinks she can just sell your property for an easy buck.
unless you're willing to do the research and try the case yourself (inadvisable) You Need a Lawyer, and you should have called one earlier.
the only problem now is that a lawyer will probably send her a frank letter explaining where she went wrong and the shitshow that will ensue if she has to go to court over an issue she should have litigated in the first place before resorting to self-help
the problem with this is that if she is crazy enough to go to a hearing over it (and the abusive landlord personalities usually are crazy enough to think they're right) it could well cost you more in legal fees than you stand to recover from her. Only your lawyer will be able to give you an honest opinion on that.
Check to see if there are any tenant legal assistance programs in the area. If that fails, go to the courthouse, figure out in which room they are holding landlord-tenant disputes (if they have such a specialty part) or to small-claims court. There will likely be a few students there or volunteer lawyers working with a local legal assistance agency that can get you a little free advice.
It probably won't get to that point though, because she knows that she's full of shit and is trying to extort money out of you.
Until she gives you a written bill for all damages claimed, you don't owe her shit other than rent and she doesn't have any right to take or restrict access to your property. This is the bottom line.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
In the meantime, yeah call the cops. she has no right to your property. She might be able to keep your property after a judge says it's ok (as in, you clearly have no intention of paying a legit debt otherwise) but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
Sure call the cops but don't expect them to get involved considering its a civil matter and not a legal one. Now you might be able to use law enforcement to scare her, but you won't get them out there if you are asking for their involvement. What you do is you contact your non emergency number and tell them, she has property of yours that you are going to retrieve while she is there, and due to previous actions of hers you would like them to come to keep the peace. Then their job is just to monitor the situation and make sure it doesn't get out of hand, but you showing up with a cop at her door stating you're here to pick up your property might scare her enough to just give it you.
You need to get a list of items from her that she claims to be broken and you need to get copies of the receipts for any items replaced. If it's agreable, make sure that the cost of the repair is deducted from your security check.
If there is anything requiring actual labor, of the cost of repairs increases into the hundreds of dollars, you reserve the right to find a competing repair service to ensure that you are not ripped off by a handpicked repair man.
If she'd go this far I have no reason to doubt that she'd try to gin up a reason for her to keep the entire deposit.
Her position on utility bills is complete nonsense. The utilities are in your name and you are responsible for them. You could disappear and they could not charge her. They may try, but they could not do so.
Depending on how the covnersation with your father goes, I suggest calling the police and asking them to assist you in retrieving stolen property. Have them escort you and your landlord to the garage, have them ask her to open the garage, and claim your ATV. Make sure you have any proof of ownership available to you to provide for the police.
As far as proof of ownership goes, we don't have any papers. My parents are going through a divorce at the moment and any paperwork if any would be at my mothers house in another town. Im sure she would not be able to find anything in the near future. If it came to that, i was hoping since there is no way the landlord has any paperwork either, my knowledge of the make, model, year, color, etc would help prove my case to the police. Yes im sure she can also tell them its a red honda 200 atv but i doubt she knows the year for example. Or that the top gear doesn't work and i have two keys to the atv and she has none.
The landlord just called me a few minutes ago to say she has to work late and will not be able to attend our meeting tonight. She would call me when shes available.
If they don't, it has to be returned in the normal timeframe (15-30 days or something after notice of new address is given?)
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Well the actual reason for this meeting was for me to give her this months rent. The rent us usually due on the first of each month but since i didnt know how long it would take to move out and i didn't feel she should get a full months rent when im not there the entire month. We agreed last night when i saw her that it came out to be 10 dollars a day. I told her i would gladly pay her for the days of the month up till i turned over the keys. Somehow she concluded that i owe her 210 dollars when i gave her the keys on the night of the 20th. I was going to meet her this evening to deliver a check for 200 dollars and ask one last time for her to unlock her garage. If she refused, i had planned on calling the police. When my father learned of this, he decided that he wanted to deliver the check for me (im sick with the flu) and try to get the quad back since its actually his.
I'm pretty much thinking im gonna give her a couple days till i feel better then im going back to my plan of asking once more nicely then getting the law involved.
What she is doing is literally extortion. It's illegal. The time to be nice or give her leeway ended long ago.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
3DS FC: 4699-5714-8940 Playing Pokemon, add me! Ho, SATAN!
ha
yeah
sure she will
classic dick landlord behavior. I would be unsurprised if the security deposit hasn't been lawfully placed in escrow
Call her right now, tell her you're tired of playing games and that because you are tired of her evasive tactics, you are informing her that she has 48 hours to return your father's property and to do a proper walk-through of the house with you present to itemize any supposed damages or you will be filing a formal complaint at the courthouse.
You should check on your local laws, but almost all jurisdictions in the US prescribe a formal walk-through of the house with both tenant and landlord at the beginning and end of the lease period, and proscribe entry without reasonable notice except in emergency situations. Remind her that she's been playing fast and loose with these rules and that if this turns ugly in a court hearing, she could stand to lose the entire security deposit.
Unless your deposit is tiny, and there's a ton of sentimental value wrapped up in the quad or something.
Well the deposit is only a months rent (300 dollars). But we have had that quad since i was six years old. I am kinda wondering what would happen if she attempted to sell the quad though. I assume to make it legal she would have to go though the state and somehow have them issue her a new title.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Don't let stall for time
Call right now and tell her what MrMonroe said
Be firm, don't waiver, and don't accept excuses