As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
We're funding a new Acquisitions Incorporated series on Kickstarter right now! Check it out at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pennyarcade/acquisitions-incorporated-the-series-2

Sid Meier's Civilization V: one...more...post...

1161719212267

Posts

  • wonderpugwonderpug Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    It's kind of bullshit that I have a 160-page art book but the actual manual for the fucking game is 4 pages.

    The actual manual is a 233 page PDF. I don't know what you'd call that little game install pamphlet. Game install pamphlet, I guess.

    wonderpug on
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    My god. Never have I had a use for navies before this game. Bombarding knights, workers, and cities with my frigates of doom is so satisfying.

    I know, throughout history nations with the biggest navy have had tremendous power and in the other civ games, naval power isn't very important.

    In this game? Unless the world is a pangea, you can push people's shit in with a big navy

    override367 on
  • JediNightJediNight Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Sheep wrote: »
    One difficulty up from the default and I'm just not doing very well. Heheh.

    Though, again, I blame the game constantly sticking me on islands by myself.

    What map settings are you using that you are being placed like that?

    PS: What about the 1GB patch? Are the servers slow for some reason, or are you just stuck on shitty internet? I pre-loaded the game on Steam the day before release and it finished in like 15-20mins. And I live in bumfuck Wisconsin...

    JediNight on
  • zilozilo Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Dracil wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Dracil wrote: »
    LavaKnight wrote: »
    Best use for a great scientist: Build an Academy, or discover an expensive tech?

    Expensive tech. Academy is -2 gold for 5 research and loss of tile improvement. Almost better to just create a specialist. Especially when you have the policies to half their unhappiness and food consumption and give production.

    counterpoint - after a certain point your bigger cities will be totally oversaturated for workable tiles, so the loss of income for a science boost is totally worth it.

    So you make them specialists...

    yes but then we get into a discussion on the optimal allocation of specialists, which is of course hugely situational. what im basically saying is that there are choices, it's not a simple case of you must get a free tech.

    If I really want to go balls-out on science I can run out of specialist slots pretty easily. I do academies up to 3 or 4 near my capital, then burn the rest of my Great Scientists on tech. Academies are really only useful in numbers, with lots of +% and the right set of social policies and once you've run out of science specialist slots.

    zilo on
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    You never really need to go balls out on science. It's easier to go full out on great persons/happiness and just chain golden ages.

    Really, both are viable depending on your social choices, which are many and varied. A communist police state is not going to have the same requirements as a trading naval power.

    The_Scarab on
  • hadokenhadoken Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    It's 10 am on the 24th of spetember where i live (near sydney) and i still dont have my game.

    hadoken on
  • Shorn Scrotum ManShorn Scrotum Man Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Anybody have an issue with the launcher where DirectX 10 & 11 are grayed out, saying it requires Service Pack 2 or greater?

    I'm running 64-bit Windows 7. There is no service pack 2.

    Did you launch the game (or Steam) in compatability mode for XP SP1 or something?

    Nope, both are being launched normally.

    Shorn Scrotum Man on
    steam_sig.png
  • SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    hadoken wrote: »
    It's 10 am on the 24th of spetember where i live (near sydney) and i still dont have my game.

    Just wait until 2K pull a Borderlands on us.

    One hour before the Australian release time came, they set it back about 3 days.

    Suriko on
  • ZeonZeon Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    So if im trying to get the Bollywood achiement with Ghandi, can i still have puppet cities? Or do i have to raze every city i take? Or can i just not fight at all?

    Zeon on
    btworbanner.jpg
    Check out my band, click the banner.
  • XiaNaphryzXiaNaphryz Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    wonderpug wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    It's kind of bullshit that I have a 160-page art book but the actual manual for the fucking game is 4 pages.

    The actual manual is a 233 page PDF. I don't know what you'd call that little game install pamphlet. Game install pamphlet, I guess.
    What would have made the SE even more awesome is if they had also included a full color manual. Paradox did that with their EU3 SE. I'd also have prefered if they replaced the art book with a full color hardbound Civilopedia with the art book stuff just thrown in spread throughout it.

    XiaNaphryz on
  • zilozilo Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    You never really need to go balls out on science. It's easier to go full out on great persons/happiness and just chain golden ages.

    Really, both are viable depending on your social choices, which are many and varied. A communist police state is not going to have the same requirements as a trading naval power.

    I concur, though if you're "booming" tech then you're definitely already running a Great People factory. There's certainly a mathematical tipping point that makes academies worthwhile. You can either spend a scientist on a tech (midgame, say ~300 science), or build an academy worth 5 per turn. If you have the correct social policies and a library/university you can easily pull in 10 science per turn from the academy, making back your "investment" in 30 turns + lost food/hammers (though I'd still take less science in favor of a specialist due to the extra GP points). If you've got a city with the right wonders you can do even better than that. It's really useful if you're trying for a tech or culture win with a small civ (3 cities or so), almost all of my tech comes from my capital and I'm way ahead of everybody else in the 1700s on Prince.

    zilo on
  • DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    zilo wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Dracil wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Dracil wrote: »
    LavaKnight wrote: »
    Best use for a great scientist: Build an Academy, or discover an expensive tech?

    Expensive tech. Academy is -2 gold for 5 research and loss of tile improvement. Almost better to just create a specialist. Especially when you have the policies to half their unhappiness and food consumption and give production.

    counterpoint - after a certain point your bigger cities will be totally oversaturated for workable tiles, so the loss of income for a science boost is totally worth it.

    So you make them specialists...

    yes but then we get into a discussion on the optimal allocation of specialists, which is of course hugely situational. what im basically saying is that there are choices, it's not a simple case of you must get a free tech.

    If I really want to go balls-out on science I can run out of specialist slots pretty easily. I do academies up to 3 or 4 near my capital, then burn the rest of my Great Scientists on tech. Academies are really only useful in numbers, with lots of +% and the right set of social policies and once you've run out of science specialist slots.

    Well, how many +% science buildings are there? (I think there are 4 +50% buildings and 1 +100% building for a +300% total)

    4 academies is +20 science and -8 money. In 125 turns that's 2500 science and -1000 gold. With the right research buildings and maybe a wonder or two that's like +5000 to +10000 science I think depending on what stage of the game you're in.

    For 1000 gold, I can make a city-state my ally for about 135 turns (assuming they're already my allies or something). With the 135 turns I could get about 1100 science from them with the right patronage policy plus whatever benefits that city-state provides. I can also gain about 4000-12000 tech points worth of research if I save the great scientists for renaissance or later techs.

    With the 4 tiles I didn't spend on academies, I can also build trading posts for either another 500 or 1000 gold (not sure if it's +1 or +2 gold each), giving me about another 500-1000 science. I'm also not potentially covering up future resource reveals.

    Now, a very early great scientist might be better spent on an academy, like you're Babylonian and get writing, simply for the early tech lead you'll get for those early technologies which could get you a lot of wonder access.

    Dracil on
    3DS: 2105-8644-6304
    Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
    MH3U Monster Cheat Sheet / MH3U Veggie Elder Ticket Guide
  • CycloneRangerCycloneRanger Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I think maybe I've been playing this too much like Civ IV with respect to happiness. I've been treading the line between unhappy/happy and 400 turns into the game I haven't yet had a golden age.

    However, the whole combat system kicks tremendous ass. I was invaded by a force twice the size of my combined armies, but thanks to my road network, my Great Generals (I had two, one assigned to each front), and some careful planning I obliterated the invaders without a single loss, and as the last archer went limping home Siam bought peace with 900 gold and another 1100 spread out over the next 90 turns.

    Also, Cho-Ko-Nu are extremely kickass. The ability to attack twice per turn on a ranged unit like that is just devastating, especially when those Cho-Ko-Nu are upgraded from the decorated archer battalions of ancient wars and led by multiple Great Generals.

    CycloneRanger on
  • Feels Good ManFeels Good Man Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I think maybe I've been playing this too much like Civ IV with respect to happiness. I've been treading the line between unhappy/happy and 400 turns into the game I haven't yet had a golden age.

    However, the whole combat system kicks tremendous ass. I was invaded by a force twice the size of my combined armies, but thanks to my road network, my Great Generals (I had two, one assigned to each front), and some careful planning I obliterated the invaders without a single loss, and as the last archer went limping home Siam bought peace with 900 gold and another 1100 spread out over the next 90 turns.

    Also, Cho-Ko-Nu are extremely kickass. The ability to attack twice per turn on a ranged unit like that is just devastating, especially when those Cho-Ko-Nu are upgraded from the decorated archer battalions of ancient wars and led by multiple Great Generals.

    I feel the same way, I'm really glad they "advance wars-ized" the combat. and out of all of my completed games (a whopping total of three) my Chinese playthrough seemed the strongest




    I'm always a warring asshole, though, so maybe Montezuma is more my style

    Feels Good Man on
  • LavaKnightLavaKnight Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Also, is there a way to lock out a tile to automated workers? They keep wanting to build a mine over a farm I built on a grassy hill, and wont listen when I tell them that two hammers is enough!

    LavaKnight on
  • SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I have Civilization 5!

    Now to decide whether to try Russia or Arabia for my first game.

    Suriko on
  • kedinikkedinik Captain of Industry Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I just had a 1-city cultural win as Ghandi.

    Shit be crazy, yo.

    kedinik on
    I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
  • JediNightJediNight Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    How did you do that? I was wondering if I had enough cities to do it with 3 even...

    JediNight on
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Is there any way to rename your cities?
    I think maybe I've been playing this too much like Civ IV with respect to happiness. I've been treading the line between unhappy/happy and 400 turns into the game I haven't yet had a golden age.

    However, the whole combat system kicks tremendous ass. I was invaded by a force twice the size of my combined armies, but thanks to my road network, my Great Generals (I had two, one assigned to each front), and some careful planning I obliterated the invaders without a single loss, and as the last archer went limping home Siam bought peace with 900 gold and another 1100 spread out over the next 90 turns.

    Also, Cho-Ko-Nu are extremely kickass. The ability to attack twice per turn on a ranged unit like that is just devastating, especially when those Cho-Ko-Nu are upgraded from the decorated archer battalions of ancient wars and led by multiple Great Generals.

    I feel the same way, I'm really glad they "advance wars-ized" the combat. and out of all of my completed games (a whopping total of three) my Chinese playthrough seemed the strongest


    I'm always a warring asshole, though, so maybe Montezuma is more my style

    Yeah I'm really enjoying the combat, and how different the civilization can be compared to civ4. I was faced with a superior army as the Iroquois but much if my territory was woodland (Iroquois treat woods that belong to you as roads) and I was able to out maneuver a greater force and use my mohawks that gain bonuses in forests to my advantage.

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • kedinikkedinik Captain of Industry Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    JediNight wrote: »
    How did you do that? I was wondering if I had enough cities to do it with 3 even...

    Each additional city increases the cultural cost of new policies by 30%, so 7 cities actually makes it pretty hard to get a cultural victory.

    Aside from that, I bee-lined for the policies, technologies and wonders that increase cultural output and lower the cost of new policies.

    kedinik on
    I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
  • XiaNaphryzXiaNaphryz Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    For those of you having issues trying to get the game to launch in DX10/11:
    This was happening to me. It turns out for whatever reason Windows 7 had been running Steam in compatibility mode for Vista (with no service pack) the entire time without me knowing. When I tried to turn it off, it was grayed out. I followed this and was able to fix it.

    XiaNaphryz on
  • parabolaparabola Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Is it even possible to get a cultural victory with less than 3 cities/with one city as Gandhi? I can get to everything except one social policy before i get a time defeat.

    parabola on
  • SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I'm playing as France and I started with two cities with the intention of doing a cultural victory. Japan stuck its nose in my business and tried to take my shit so now while I'm taking over half the map I'm still trying to focus on social policies. The game said that puppet states don't contribute to the cost of social policies.

    I learned my lesson from my first game where I let my guard down after Julius Caesar retreated from the war he started before coming back a bunch of turns later with loads of artillery which wiped me off the map. Japan is getting assimilated.

    Sarksus on
  • XiaNaphryzXiaNaphryz Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    parabola wrote: »
    Is it even possible to get a cultural victory with less than 3 cities/with one city as Gandhi? I can get to everything except one social policy before i get a time defeat.

    Are you calling kedinik a liar? ;)

    I'd think India's special trait kind of forces you to stick to a small empire anyway (doubles unhappiness for number of cities, halves unhappiness for population).

    XiaNaphryz on
  • ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    TheStig wrote: »
    Is there any way to rename your cities?

    On a city's production detailed production screen, there's a tiny "Edit" text-button underneath the right arrow of the city's name box.

    CivilizationV_DX112010-09-2323-53-28-19.jpg

    It's a pretty retarded location, like they put it on there haphazardly after the whole UI was developed when someone mentioned "hey we forgot to put in the ability to rename cities!"

    Zxerol on
  • SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Considering one preview at quite a late stage mentioned cities couldn't be renamed, and was quickly responded to with "actually you can" from the devs after fans raised an eyebrow at the omission, it's very possible that's the exact thing that happened.

    Suriko on
  • parabolaparabola Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    XiaNaphryz wrote: »
    parabola wrote: »
    Is it even possible to get a cultural victory with less than 3 cities/with one city as Gandhi? I can get to everything except one social policy before i get a time defeat.

    Are you calling kedinik a liar? ;)

    I'd think India's special trait kind of forces you to stick to a small empire anyway (doubles unhappiness for number of cities, halves unhappiness for population).

    Actually no. I didn't read his post. I just came on to whine about it. Now that I know it's apparently possible im gonna go try it again.

    parabola on
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Greece is my favorite civilization right now. The city state bonuses are incredibly good.

    Oh and the Forbidden Palace -50% happiness from number of cities and the Order tree policy -50% stack to -100%, completely removing the penalty. That is pretty insanely broken if it completely eliminates it for India. Well, I don't know if it would eliminate it, or just cancel out the penalty for India.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • SavantSavant Simply Barbaric Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I've won two games so far. First was as Rome on Warlord difficulty, which turned out to be not even remotely fair for the AI. I was on a continent with India and Germany, but there was a mountain range with a few city states in the middle that made it impossible to reach India by land, and very difficult to reach Germany. So I got some sea techs and started expanding on India's mostly empty landmass until I totally crushed them with an oversized and overteched army. Then in the modern era I marched down to Germany with an assortment of modern units and an airforce and wiped them out when most of what they had was their unique pikemen things. Montezuma ran over the other continent roughshod, so all it took to win was to do a sneak attack on his capital.

    Second game I upped the difficulty to Prince and tried for Bollywood as India, and that turned out to be quite a bit harder. I only had two cities, and shared my continent with America and a couple city states. Washington decided to be a really big dick, and periodically massed a big force and invaded me while allied with the 2 nearby city states. I was able to fend these attacks off with an assorted mounted army thanks to a bunch of bonuses for fighting on my turf, but it was rather annoying because I had to devote quite a bit of effort towards building up defenses out of only two cities. Fortunately he would come groveling to me and give away his treasury after wiping out his army to end the war, which offset the cost a bit. Eventually he got the picture that invading me wasn't going to work, so he started going across the water to expand and he backstabbed one of his former city state buddies.

    Cultural victories seem to take for-bloody-ever too, at least through that method. I got a bunch of wonders to support my effort like the Sistine Chapel, Stonehenge, and free social policy wonders, and I was still only able to fill out my policy trees by the time Siam on the other continent had gotten into the future era. Getting the -75% reduction to culture cost of expansion Wonder (Angkor Wat?) when going for a culture victory is pretty ridiculous though. My borders were huge despite only having 2 cities.

    Savant on
  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Is it possible to have it launch directly into DX10 without it asking every single time you try to load it?

    Also, how do you check if a city state is connected to your capital?

    Spoit on
    steam_sig.png
  • zilozilo Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Dracil wrote: »
    Well, how many +% science buildings are there? (I think there are 4 +50% buildings and 1 +100% building for a +300% total)

    4 academies is +20 science and -8 money. In 125 turns that's 2500 science and -1000 gold. With the right research buildings and maybe a wonder or two that's like +5000 to +10000 science I think depending on what stage of the game you're in.

    For 1000 gold, I can make a city-state my ally for about 135 turns (assuming they're already my allies or something). With the 135 turns I could get about 1100 science from them with the right patronage policy plus whatever benefits that city-state provides. I can also gain about 4000-12000 tech points worth of research if I save the great scientists for renaissance or later techs.

    With the 4 tiles I didn't spend on academies, I can also build trading posts for either another 500 or 1000 gold (not sure if it's +1 or +2 gold each), giving me about another 500-1000 science. I'm also not potentially covering up future resource reveals.

    Now, a very early great scientist might be better spent on an academy, like you're Babylonian and get writing, simply for the early tech lead you'll get for those early technologies which could get you a lot of wonder access.

    Yay, civtheory :)

    In Civ5 beakers aren't related to gold, but in any case I'm not sure where you're getting the -2 gold per academy figure from- building a GP improvement on a tile doesn't remove any of its natural bonuses, all you pay is the opportunity cost of building something else (plus not using the GP for a free tech). Assuming the best-case scenario for a single trading post versus a single academy, over 100 turns you would either get 300 gold or 1000 science (assuming a +100% science bonus, easily achievable by turn 200 with a library and university, versus +50% gold for a market and a bank). 1000 science is a lot, that's at least one full extra tech up through the middle of the Renaissance. Assuming you build it at turn 200 it gives you an extra 3000 science through the end of the game in the worst case (with just a library and university), versus a few hundred depending on what Classical-era tech you get for free plus 900 gold (assuming 300 turns of 2 gold per turn, +50% for a Market and a Bank). Or you could save the scientist until the industrial/modern era, which has its own advantages, but you miss out on a couple hundred turns of extra science.

    Obviously it depends a lot on what your nearby city-states are doing and what your financial situation is like but 900 gold versus roughly 2500 science over the course of a game is a pretty good deal, generally.

    Later in the game, though, it makes a lot more sense to spend Great Scientists on techs. I haven't worked the math but my gut feeling is that once you hit the industrial era building an academy isn't going to give you a good return on your investment, with the possible exception of edge cases involving wonders and social policies. A rule of thumb that's been working out well for me so far is once I hit the middle of the industrial era, start spending great scientists on tech and everyone else except engineers on golden ages (engineers make manufactories, which are almost always really good).

    tl,dr: Academies are almost always better than a free tech + a trading post up through turn 300 or so, then they're almost always worse.

    edit: Also, for extra fun- did you know that city-states base their tech level on the most advanced player in the game? I'm in a game on Prince where I'm way, WAY beyond everybody else in tech and the city states on another continent have modern infantry running around and cities that launch rockets, versus knights and trebuchets. It is quite amusing.

    zilo on
  • tofutofu Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I was thinking they should bring colonies back from Civ 3

    Give them 2 functions: spreading influence, act as a city for trade routes

    This allows a civ to grab resources in a spot that would be junk for a regular city, to fill in "influence gaps" in their empire, and help offset the cost of longer roads with extra trade route income

    Colonies (maybe call them towns?) are built by consuming a worker. This means they can't be easily spammed everywhere, especially at the beginning of the game, and it also allows you to do something if you suddenly find yourself with an excess of workers

    tofu on
  • DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    zilo wrote: »
    Dracil wrote: »
    Well, how many +% science buildings are there? (I think there are 4 +50% buildings and 1 +100% building for a +300% total)

    4 academies is +20 science and -8 money. In 125 turns that's 2500 science and -1000 gold. With the right research buildings and maybe a wonder or two that's like +5000 to +10000 science I think depending on what stage of the game you're in.

    For 1000 gold, I can make a city-state my ally for about 135 turns (assuming they're already my allies or something). With the 135 turns I could get about 1100 science from them with the right patronage policy plus whatever benefits that city-state provides. I can also gain about 4000-12000 tech points worth of research if I save the great scientists for renaissance or later techs.

    With the 4 tiles I didn't spend on academies, I can also build trading posts for either another 500 or 1000 gold (not sure if it's +1 or +2 gold each), giving me about another 500-1000 science. I'm also not potentially covering up future resource reveals.

    Now, a very early great scientist might be better spent on an academy, like you're Babylonian and get writing, simply for the early tech lead you'll get for those early technologies which could get you a lot of wonder access.

    Yay, civtheory :)

    In Civ5 beakers aren't related to gold, but in any case I'm not sure where you're getting the -2 gold per academy figure from- building a GP improvement on a tile doesn't remove any of its natural bonuses, all you pay is the opportunity cost of building something else (plus not using the GP for a free tech). Assuming the best-case scenario for a single trading post versus a single academy, over 100 turns you would either get 300 gold or 1000 science (assuming a +100% science bonus, easily achievable by turn 200 with a library and university, versus +50% gold for a market and a bank). 1000 science is a lot, that's at least one full extra tech up through the middle of the Renaissance. Assuming you build it at turn 200 it gives you an extra 3000 science through the end of the game in the worst case (with just a library and university), versus a few hundred depending on what Classical-era tech you get for free plus 900 gold (assuming 300 turns of 2 gold per turn, +50% for a Market and a Bank). Or you could save the scientist until the industrial/modern era, which has its own advantages, but you miss out on a couple hundred turns of extra science.

    Obviously it depends a lot on what your nearby city-states are doing and what your financial situation is like but 900 gold versus roughly 2500 science over the course of a game is a pretty good deal, generally.

    Later in the game, though, it makes a lot more sense to spend Great Scientists on techs. I haven't worked the math but my gut feeling is that once you hit the industrial era building an academy isn't going to give you a good return on your investment, with the possible exception of edge cases involving wonders and social policies. A rule of thumb that's been working out well for me so far is once I hit the middle of the industrial era, start spending great scientists on tech and everyone else except engineers on golden ages (engineers make manufactories, which are almost always really good).

    tl,dr: Academies are almost always better than a free tech + a trading post up through turn 300 or so, then they're almost always worse.

    edit: Also, for extra fun- did you know that city-states base their tech level on the most advanced player in the game? I'm in a game on Prince where I'm way, WAY beyond everybody else in tech and the city states on another continent have modern infantry running around and cities that launch rockets, versus knights and trebuchets. It is quite amusing.

    I remember seeing somewhere, either in-game or in some forum post that Great Academies are -2 gold +5 beakers. Is that not so?

    Edit: Just started the game and verified. Guess I misremembered the -2 gold. Ok, that does make the academies a lot better then.

    But it's not just 900 gold vs 2500 tech. It's 900 gold + a free tech vs 2500 tech. Also after rationalism, you can get +2 science per trading post.

    Modern Era tech costs between 2600-3350 tech and Future era costs 3350-4000 tech. Saving a great scientists till modern age could recoup you as much tech as the great academy could have generated, but I agree 4000 tech over 400 turns is a lot better than 4000 tech in the last 100 turns.

    Dracil on
    3DS: 2105-8644-6304
    Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
    MH3U Monster Cheat Sheet / MH3U Veggie Elder Ticket Guide
  • SavantSavant Simply Barbaric Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Dracil wrote: »
    zilo wrote: »
    Dracil wrote: »
    Well, how many +% science buildings are there? (I think there are 4 +50% buildings and 1 +100% building for a +300% total)

    4 academies is +20 science and -8 money. In 125 turns that's 2500 science and -1000 gold. With the right research buildings and maybe a wonder or two that's like +5000 to +10000 science I think depending on what stage of the game you're in.

    For 1000 gold, I can make a city-state my ally for about 135 turns (assuming they're already my allies or something). With the 135 turns I could get about 1100 science from them with the right patronage policy plus whatever benefits that city-state provides. I can also gain about 4000-12000 tech points worth of research if I save the great scientists for renaissance or later techs.

    With the 4 tiles I didn't spend on academies, I can also build trading posts for either another 500 or 1000 gold (not sure if it's +1 or +2 gold each), giving me about another 500-1000 science. I'm also not potentially covering up future resource reveals.

    Now, a very early great scientist might be better spent on an academy, like you're Babylonian and get writing, simply for the early tech lead you'll get for those early technologies which could get you a lot of wonder access.

    Yay, civtheory :)

    In Civ5 beakers aren't related to gold, but in any case I'm not sure where you're getting the -2 gold per academy figure from- building a GP improvement on a tile doesn't remove any of its natural bonuses, all you pay is the opportunity cost of building something else (plus not using the GP for a free tech). Assuming the best-case scenario for a single trading post versus a single academy, over 100 turns you would either get 300 gold or 1000 science (assuming a +100% science bonus, easily achievable by turn 200 with a library and university, versus +50% gold for a market and a bank). 1000 science is a lot, that's at least one full extra tech up through the middle of the Renaissance. Assuming you build it at turn 200 it gives you an extra 3000 science through the end of the game in the worst case (with just a library and university), versus a few hundred depending on what Classical-era tech you get for free plus 900 gold (assuming 300 turns of 2 gold per turn, +50% for a Market and a Bank). Or you could save the scientist until the industrial/modern era, which has its own advantages, but you miss out on a couple hundred turns of extra science.

    Obviously it depends a lot on what your nearby city-states are doing and what your financial situation is like but 900 gold versus roughly 2500 science over the course of a game is a pretty good deal, generally.

    Later in the game, though, it makes a lot more sense to spend Great Scientists on techs. I haven't worked the math but my gut feeling is that once you hit the industrial era building an academy isn't going to give you a good return on your investment, with the possible exception of edge cases involving wonders and social policies. A rule of thumb that's been working out well for me so far is once I hit the middle of the industrial era, start spending great scientists on tech and everyone else except engineers on golden ages (engineers make manufactories, which are almost always really good).

    tl,dr: Academies are almost always better than a free tech + a trading post up through turn 300 or so, then they're almost always worse.

    edit: Also, for extra fun- did you know that city-states base their tech level on the most advanced player in the game? I'm in a game on Prince where I'm way, WAY beyond everybody else in tech and the city states on another continent have modern infantry running around and cities that launch rockets, versus knights and trebuchets. It is quite amusing.

    I remember seeing somewhere, either in-game or in some forum post that Great Academies are -2 gold +5 beakers. Is that not so?

    It's -2 gold if you replace an existing trading post with it, but otherwise there is no immediate negative of it.

    I think the academy early and buy a tech later is probably a good guideline, except perhaps if you are doing the rationalism strategy of getting bonus science out of trading posts.

    Savant on
  • hadokenhadoken Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    So, i suck so much that the only way i know to win is to get to the year 2050 and have more points than everyone else.

    How do you get rid of the unhappiness caused by overpopulation?

    hadoken on
  • SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
  • DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    hadoken wrote: »
    So, i suck so much that the only way i know to win is to get to the year 2050 and have more points than everyone else.

    How do you get rid of the unhappiness caused by overpopulation?

    Social policies. Luxuries. Wonders. Play India.

    Forbidden palace halves all unhappiness (banking)

    Social policies will give you +1 happiness/-1 unhappiness per city here and there.

    Dracil on
    3DS: 2105-8644-6304
    Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
    MH3U Monster Cheat Sheet / MH3U Veggie Elder Ticket Guide
  • Feels Good ManFeels Good Man Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    build theatres so your populace can watch the latest musicals and be happy

    Feels Good Man on
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2010
    huh, so I just got the achievement for being one of the civilizations and getting 10 barbarian naval units.

    Only I was Japan.

    So apparently some of the achievements you get if the appropriate civ in the game meets the condition, sloppy.

    Morkath on
  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Just had an AI offer me a pact of cooperation, then cancel it on the next turn because I'm a warmongering bastard, then offer it again on the next. The hell?

    Do puppet states contribute to social policy costs? Also, it seems that one of my puppet states has stopped building anything... huh.

    ronya on
    aRkpc.gif
This discussion has been closed.