finally got to read ASM from last week, and it was pretty awesome. im really looking forward to big time.
ive also been getting the ratchet and clank ongoing, and i saw that theyre shutting down wildstorm. having not read any other wildstorm comics, i had no idea. whats the deal with that? are they gonna cancel a lot of books?
not at all a bitch but here's dan slott talking about carlie cooper
When we looked at Carlie, the very first issue starts off where she’s pining for Peter, and Peter has this kiss with someone he doesn’t even know. So here’s single Pete, and this strange woman is kissing him. Someone he has no connection with. So it kind of felt like a very nice journey, that at the end, Peter’s found a girl. And it’s that girl who’s been there all along. That felt like a very nice story beat for the overarching arc of Brand New Day. That was something all the Web-Heads came up with together and agreed on as a team.
That said, I think one of the problems with Carlie, as a character, is that I think more than any other character in the Brand New Day, in her case there were too many cooks. There wasn’t one strong voice guiding Carlie. If you look at the best characters of the new ones that came out of Brand New Day, I think they all came about because one person would come in and champion them. Mark Waid came in and went, “I have this idea to bring in J. Jonah Jameson’s father, and here’s what I’d like to do with him.” Joe Kelly came to the table and said, “I want to introduce this Front Line reporter, Norah. Here’s how she works.” In my case, I said, “Here’s Mr. Negative. I want Martin Li to do this, and be here, yadda yadda.” Even though we moved from writer to writer in Brand New Day, and we tried to keep a consistent tone, you can see that a lot of us had favorite characters. Like I think Marc Guggenheim did the best work on Lily. But Carlie was this one character that I think a lot of us tried to play with. When you picked up the baton and ran, you kind of wanted to leave the character in the same spot for the next guy to pick up, so it kind of felt, a lot of the times, that she floated in amber.
If readers have had a problem with Carlie, I think that might go away now that there’s one writer guiding her. I think we can find a footing for that. There’s nothing about this character that’s wrong. There’s nothing about this character that she can’t go on to do interesting things and have interesting developments. I think it’s that case with many, many, many characters in all of serialized fiction. I think it’s very rare that there’s some character out there that’s completely flawed and irredeemable. Hey, you’re talking to the guy who picked up and ran with Squirrel Girl.
Dan Slott is a great writer, you only need to look at his Avengers runs to see that, and I'm sure he will write an excellent Spider-Man especially now he has control of the book.
However that's not why people didn't and don't like Carlie Cooper, and I think Slott knows it.
People who don't like carlie for that reason need to get the fuck over it, either in the sense of sucking it up and reading the book or just dropping the issue entirely. No amount of complaining is going to matter. It just makes you look weird and obsessive.
Furu on
0
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited November 2010
So people upset about Carlie being the "it" girl is obsessive, yet it's the writers continuing to push her into being the perfect girl for Peter, on top of repeated "MJ and Peter will never be together under Quesada's reign" jabs like through BND and even in #648 isn't obsessive itself?
If Marvel want people to let it go, they need to do the same thing instead of aiming to piss former Spider-Man readers off.
And Joe Kelly wrote Norah, but it also seemed that his issues were the ones that really showed her flinging racial slurs and jokes and being a jerk. Having one person championing a character does not always mean better than multiple writers having a roll in the hay. Look at Loeb with Red Hulk or JMS with Superman, way to just piledrive a character into nothing.
Anyways, Slott never seemed to me to be a Marvel Style type writer though, that was interesting. Especially since he's been so slow, I thought he would pine over the script for days. Hell, I still wonder if Slott can do one book twice a month.
Can we just make it a rule of thumb to ignore furu in the bitching threads? He doesn't seem to grasp that this is a thread for bitching about comics for all manner of reasons.
Anyways, It seems to me that Marvel has no real idea what they want to do long term with Petey, aside from keep him far away from the women he spent half his written history with due to the whims of a editor with a bug up his ass. Like, the whole point of OMD was to break with the status quo: Stable relationship, public identity, productive job.
Aside from everyone knowing his identity, Big time looks like it's going to Give him a productive job and a stable relationship thereby defeating the purpose behind OMD.
I honestly think they could have made Carlie work as a character and as a love interest, if they had just taken their time, gradually developed her backstory and personality, and then, from there, they could lay the groundwork for a relationship with Pete. But NOPE! They wanted everything right now, no time for development. So just have MJ talk Carlie up and all the fans will be cool with it! And that went over like the lead balloon it is.
I honestly think they could have made Carlie work as a character and as a love interest, if they had just taken their time, gradually developed her backstory and personality, and then, from there, they could lay the groundwork for a relationship with Pete. But NOPE! They wanted everything right now, no time for development. So just have MJ talk Carlie up and all the fans will be cool with it! And that went over like the lead balloon it is.
Dude, Carlie was introduced two years ago. That's more than enough time to develop a character.
Furthermore, if your character doesn't catch on after two years of publishing a pseudo-weekly title, it's possible that she just isn't very good.
Well a girlfriend introduced right after the marriage was removed was always going to have a hard time. The fact that she wasn't all that amazing (not terrible, just not amazing) means that Carlie Cooper got dragged down by association.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that it is the case. Personally I liked married pete and I think the retcon can go fuck itself, but that the stories in BND were good, but I'll admit a distaste for Carlie Cooper due to the marriage retcon. Irrational? Maybe, but there it is.
It's not irrational to dislike carlie in the wake of the omd fuckmuppetry; you're basicly trading a vibrant lively character who had been with the main character for the better part of his existence with a character who is meh.
And frankly, I don't even understand why they needed to create a new character for petey to date. Dude's had enough girlfriends in the past and you could just as easily dig one of them up for dating purposes.
I don't know why they didn't just have Peter realize that hey, he really likes the peter.
The All-New, All-Gay Spider-Man.
Seriously, let's go down the checklist:
-He has a close relationship with his mother-figure, which borders on the parasitic.
-He has an artsy job.
-His best friend is a glamorous fashion model.
-He likes to accessorize.
-He can't seem to maintain a relationship with any of the couple dozen hot women swooning for him.
-He spends most of his free time wrestling with burly men.
Peter Parker is a dude that's clearly hungry for the tender embrace of say, a Living Lightning or a Flatman.
I'm so tired of MAX titles just throwing swears and slurs around for no reason and substituting that for story, ( it's really out of control in the latest Deadpool MAX)
edit: (and like , I'm far from a prude, and have no problems with language, the slurs bug me but eh , that's been done too, but the sheer bombardment, almost 10 fucks, and 7 racial slurs, by page 4)
I say the f-word alot. Like... when I'm angry, it's just a sound that happens. And I'm generally considered an incredibly eloquent person. But, when the anger happens... well... so does the f-word
I say the f-word alot. Like... when I'm angry, it's just a sound that happens. And I'm generally considered an incredibly eloquent person. But, when the anger happens... well... so does the f-word
ya as I said, far from a prude ( and don't even want to waste time scanning this, barely read it , and don't really want to host the examples rofl) , but like, I love dirty comedy, I love dark stories, I can overlook slurring when done properly, but this issue feels like schoolchildren that just discovered swearing, ( and actually I semi remember when a char got angry was when he didn't swear, but I digress) like every 2nd word, and then the huge speil of racial slurs , dunno , it really was offputting, and not even comedic.
also, when I'm angry the swearing flies like a sailor on leave too ! , but this was shoehorned in. ( and it's more the slurs that made everything else noticable)
Whenever someone mentions Gay versions of superhero's, I always think of this scene from Brave and Bold, with or without context , it's hilarious/weird/creepy all in one.
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited November 2010
So in Spider-Girl #1 the recap page says Arana lost her powers before Grim Hunt, and gave up being a hero then was captured by the Kravinoffs. But in Young Allies #1 it says she lost her powers during Grim Hunt (ASM #637 I think, which then never showed anything so there's still a big ? with what happened to her).
My distaste for The Breakup aside, I was looking forward to exploring Carol / Peter a bit more - shame that didn't seem to go anywhere either.
yeah i'd rather see peter date a superhero for a change.
scratch that, he should always date black cat, and only black cat.
hottest chick in the marvel u, can i get an amen?
Ooh, sorry man I can't agree. I don't think Black Cat has or could ever fit into Peter Parker's life as opposed to Spider-Man's life - and Peter wouldn't be able to accept that.
I think the past few years of Spider-Man have made me realize how little I care about Peter's life.
I care that Spider-Man is a guy with real-life problems, but I just do not care a bit that they are Peter's real-life problems.
I mean money issues, like basic pay-the-rent money issues when you're around 30 and know Tony Stark? Here's a tip: liquidate your assets and invest in Tony Stark Magic Technology That Is Great, you silly goose.
It's gone on so long in both real-time and comic-time that I've stopped seeing him as someone sympathetic.
I would have been much more interested in the conflict between him having a job, and having a career. Something like the choice of spending time writing/publishing/working, and spending time hitting people. Is science the change he wants to be in the world and Spider-Man his hobby, or is it reversed? That's something new. Going from high-school to college to money troubles to money troubles to money troubles to money troubles is just getting silly.
Hopefully the whole lab thing in Big Time actually amounts to something.
Posts
Tumblr Twitter
ive also been getting the ratchet and clank ongoing, and i saw that theyre shutting down wildstorm. having not read any other wildstorm comics, i had no idea. whats the deal with that? are they gonna cancel a lot of books?
XBL: MightyManotaur
PA: TheSecretSeventh
wait....
However that's not why people didn't and don't like Carlie Cooper, and I think Slott knows it.
If Marvel want people to let it go, they need to do the same thing instead of aiming to piss former Spider-Man readers off.
And Joe Kelly wrote Norah, but it also seemed that his issues were the ones that really showed her flinging racial slurs and jokes and being a jerk. Having one person championing a character does not always mean better than multiple writers having a roll in the hay. Look at Loeb with Red Hulk or JMS with Superman, way to just piledrive a character into nothing.
Anyways, Slott never seemed to me to be a Marvel Style type writer though, that was interesting. Especially since he's been so slow, I thought he would pine over the script for days. Hell, I still wonder if Slott can do one book twice a month.
One that shares the name of Joe Q's daughter at that.
Anyways, It seems to me that Marvel has no real idea what they want to do long term with Petey, aside from keep him far away from the women he spent half his written history with due to the whims of a editor with a bug up his ass. Like, the whole point of OMD was to break with the status quo: Stable relationship, public identity, productive job.
Aside from everyone knowing his identity, Big time looks like it's going to Give him a productive job and a stable relationship thereby defeating the purpose behind OMD.
Furthermore, if your character doesn't catch on after two years of publishing a pseudo-weekly title, it's possible that she just isn't very good.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that it is the case. Personally I liked married pete and I think the retcon can go fuck itself, but that the stories in BND were good, but I'll admit a distaste for Carlie Cooper due to the marriage retcon. Irrational? Maybe, but there it is.
And frankly, I don't even understand why they needed to create a new character for petey to date. Dude's had enough girlfriends in the past and you could just as easily dig one of them up for dating purposes.
Not exactly a stellar endorsement if that's the case
The All-New, All-Gay Spider-Man.
Seriously, let's go down the checklist:
-He has a close relationship with his mother-figure, which borders on the parasitic.
-He has an artsy job.
-His best friend is a glamorous fashion model.
-He likes to accessorize.
-He can't seem to maintain a relationship with any of the couple dozen hot women swooning for him.
-He spends most of his free time wrestling with burly men.
Peter Parker is a dude that's clearly hungry for the tender embrace of say, a Living Lightning or a Flatman.
Tumblr Twitter
The Peter/Carol thing was one of the only good things Reed did with Ms. Marvel. The guy does write a really great Venom though I must admit.
Seriously, this thing looks like it came out of a Freddie Mercury fever dream.
Tumblr Twitter
Maybe his problems stem from the fact that he went gay and can not stray?
edit: (and like , I'm far from a prude, and have no problems with language, the slurs bug me but eh , that's been done too, but the sheer bombardment, almost 10 fucks, and 7 racial slurs, by page 4)
ya as I said, far from a prude ( and don't even want to waste time scanning this, barely read it , and don't really want to host the examples rofl) , but like, I love dirty comedy, I love dark stories, I can overlook slurring when done properly, but this issue feels like schoolchildren that just discovered swearing, ( and actually I semi remember when a char got angry was when he didn't swear, but I digress) like every 2nd word, and then the huge speil of racial slurs , dunno , it really was offputting, and not even comedic.
also, when I'm angry the swearing flies like a sailor on leave too ! , but this was shoehorned in. ( and it's more the slurs that made everything else noticable)
There you go furu
Darling, I'm Batman
Furu please explain.
Is.... is that Diedrich Bader as the voice of Batman?
Yeah. Diedrich Bader has been good in everything he's done except Beverly Hillbillies.
yeah i'd rather see peter date a superhero for a change.
scratch that, he should always date black cat, and only black cat.
hottest chick in the marvel u, can i get an amen?
XBL: MightyManotaur
PA: TheSecretSeventh
wait....
He was the Jethro! And yeah, he's the bomb.
Ooh, sorry man I can't agree. I don't think Black Cat has or could ever fit into Peter Parker's life as opposed to Spider-Man's life - and Peter wouldn't be able to accept that.
I care that Spider-Man is a guy with real-life problems, but I just do not care a bit that they are Peter's real-life problems.
I mean money issues, like basic pay-the-rent money issues when you're around 30 and know Tony Stark? Here's a tip: liquidate your assets and invest in Tony Stark Magic Technology That Is Great, you silly goose.
It's gone on so long in both real-time and comic-time that I've stopped seeing him as someone sympathetic.
I would have been much more interested in the conflict between him having a job, and having a career. Something like the choice of spending time writing/publishing/working, and spending time hitting people. Is science the change he wants to be in the world and Spider-Man his hobby, or is it reversed? That's something new. Going from high-school to college to money troubles to money troubles to money troubles to money troubles is just getting silly.
Hopefully the whole lab thing in Big Time actually amounts to something.