i wonder if you could modify carriers to shoot carriers and then loop it so the carriers shoot carriers and more carriers and goes on until your starcraft explodes
Which is the most useless unit: Carriers, Mothership or Archons?
I'm really gonna have to go w/ Mothership.
I'm going to DT rush specifically to make Archons.
i wonder if you could modify carriers to shoot carriers and then loop it so the carriers shoot carriers and more carriers and goes on until your starcraft explodes
Which is the most useless unit: Carriers, Mothership or Archons?
I'm really gonna have to go w/ Mothership.
I'm going to DT rush specifically to make Archons.
It feels wrong that I win more games than I lose when I just do void rays every single game.
This is why I go double or triple queens when toss hard wall off with cannons.
This feels like such a huge waste of minerals and totally telegraphs their play.
Especially because I see people go for void rays without a hard wall all the time. I don't understand why people feel the need to put four canons in front of their ramp just to build one or two VRs.
It feels wrong that I win more games than I lose when I just do void rays every single game.
This is why I go double or triple queens when toss hard wall off with cannons.
This feels like such a huge waste of minerals and totally telegraphs their play.
Especially because I see people go for void rays without a hard wall all the time. I don't understand why people feel the need to put four canons in front of their ramp just to build one or two VRs.
if you're not going to go hide them in a corner of the map/proxied close to base, you seal in your base, you pretty much can only afford zealots and cannons, as all your gas goes to Starports and VRs.
i wonder if you could modify carriers to shoot carriers and then loop it so the carriers shoot carriers and more carriers and goes on until your starcraft explodes
Which is the most useless unit: Carriers, Mothership or Archons?
I'm really gonna have to go w/ Mothership.
I'm going to DT rush specifically to make Archons.
i wonder if you could modify carriers to shoot carriers and then loop it so the carriers shoot carriers and more carriers and goes on until your starcraft explodes
Which is the most useless unit: Carriers, Mothership or Archons?
I'm really gonna have to go w/ Mothership.
I'm going to DT rush specifically to make Archons.
i wonder if you could modify carriers to shoot carriers and then loop it so the carriers shoot carriers and more carriers and goes on until your starcraft explodes
Which is the most useless unit: Carriers, Mothership or Archons?
I'm really gonna have to go w/ Mothership.
I'm going to DT rush specifically to make Archons.
i wonder if you could modify carriers to shoot carriers and then loop it so the carriers shoot carriers and more carriers and goes on until your starcraft explodes
Which is the most useless unit: Carriers, Mothership or Archons?
I'm really gonna have to go w/ Mothership.
I'm going to DT rush specifically to make Archons.
i wonder if you could modify carriers to shoot carriers and then loop it so the carriers shoot carriers and more carriers and goes on until your starcraft explodes
Which is the most useless unit: Carriers, Mothership or Archons?
I'm really gonna have to go w/ Mothership.
I'm going to DT rush specifically to make Archons.
i wonder if you could modify carriers to shoot carriers and then loop it so the carriers shoot carriers and more carriers and goes on until your starcraft explodes
Which is the most useless unit: Carriers, Mothership or Archons?
I'm really gonna have to go w/ Mothership.
I'm going to DT rush specifically to make Archons.
i wonder if you could modify carriers to shoot carriers and then loop it so the carriers shoot carriers and more carriers and goes on until your starcraft explodes
Which is the most useless unit: Carriers, Mothership or Archons?
I'm really gonna have to go w/ Mothership.
I'm going to DT rush specifically to make Archons.
uhhh....
uh what?
DTs don't turn into archons
In SC2 they do.
what?
DTs and HTs are interchangeable when making Archons in Starcraft 2.
i wonder if you could modify carriers to shoot carriers and then loop it so the carriers shoot carriers and more carriers and goes on until your starcraft explodes
Which is the most useless unit: Carriers, Mothership or Archons?
I'm really gonna have to go w/ Mothership.
I'm going to DT rush specifically to make Archons.
uhhh....
uh what?
DTs don't turn into archons
In SC2 they do.
what?
DTs and HTs are interchangeable when making Archons in Starcraft 2.
The more you know [insert rainbow here]
i've had decent sized groups of DTs before... how on earth did i miss the "Merge into Archons" button?
i wonder if you could modify carriers to shoot carriers and then loop it so the carriers shoot carriers and more carriers and goes on until your starcraft explodes
Which is the most useless unit: Carriers, Mothership or Archons?
I'm really gonna have to go w/ Mothership.
I'm going to DT rush specifically to make Archons.
if you're not going to go hide them in a corner of the map/proxied close to base, you seal in your base, you pretty much can only afford zealots and cannons, as all your gas goes to Starports and VRs.
That hiding isn't necessary. Building a few VRs is not the kind of all in strategy that would require a gigantic wall in the front of your base. As you're teching you can get the standard 1 zealot/sentry/stalker, and by not building canons (or building only one cannon) you save money for other things that are more useful than static defenses. Like more zealots. Or void rays.
McSnuggles posted some replays in the old thread of him doing exactly what I've just described. I also seem to recall HuK doing it a lot in the late beta and first month of the game. You really don't need a ton of static defenses for this kind of thing.
If I see you with that kind of wall, I'm going to expand at least twice and simply starve you out. You're not going to be able to build enough VRs on one base to handle that kind of thing.
If you're not 100% on the ball with your queen's energy...you're WASTING macro opportunities. It's going down the toilet with every passing second.
T and P don't have that danger. Hell, terran still gain energy even while in flight. Land...mule your ass off. I'm of the opinion that it should DRAIN while in flight.
It's not that Z is HARDER to macro...it's just more punishing if you screw up.
Yes but, if you forget to make units as Z but you have been keeping up with spawn larva, you can oh shit a bunch of them cause your money has piled. But if you forget to make units as T or P, and your money has piled the best you can do is queue units up, or oh shit a bunch of unit producing structures(that you wont be able to use to their fullest extent). So terran and protoss unit production is more punishing if you screw up. So do you want to remember to have to spam units? Or remember to have to spam spawn larva?
"I'm gonna sit on my one base and make only Void Rays and hope that you respond incorrectly" is a specific use of VRs and if that's pretty much all you want to do then cannons can't hurt. A good player will see the wall + cannons and prepare for VRs, but they'd probably not fall to that build anyway.
It's perfectly possible to incorporate VRs into a normal build with no cannons, but I feel that's a very different type of thing and is probably not something you're going to see poor players pull off well. Phoenixes in PvT are almost standard, for example, and they're almost as gas-expensive as VRs.
If you're not 100% on the ball with your queen's energy...you're WASTING macro opportunities. It's going down the toilet with every passing second.
T and P don't have that danger. Hell, terran still gain energy even while in flight. Land...mule your ass off. I'm of the opinion that it should DRAIN while in flight.
It's not that Z is HARDER to macro...it's just more punishing if you screw up.
Yes but, if you forget to make units as Z but you have been keeping up with spawn larva, you can oh shit a bunch of them cause your money has piled. But if you forget to make units as T or P, and your money has piled the best you can do is queue units up, or oh shit a bunch of unit producing structures(that you wont be able to use to their fullest extent). So terran and protoss unit production is more punishing if you screw up. So do you want to remember to have to spam units? Or remember to have to spam spawn larva?
I have a hard time seeing how it would be possible to remember to spawn larva, but forget to build units. If I have a problem in this regard, it is almost always the exact opposite: When I am having a rough time, I will panic-build units, but I will forget to spawn larva, and then I am super fucked because I can't make anything by the time I realize I've been forgetting to spawn larva. It's lost me a couple games recently.
I don't really know how I manage this, considering I have hatches on 4 and queens on 5. I just forget to spawn the larva.
Hoping we see a zerg in the semis, but not sure it's very likely. At least sSKS has a decent chance of taking it, although intotherainbow might just win over him.
If you're not 100% on the ball with your queen's energy...you're WASTING macro opportunities. It's going down the toilet with every passing second.
T and P don't have that danger. Hell, terran still gain energy even while in flight. Land...mule your ass off. I'm of the opinion that it should DRAIN while in flight.
It's not that Z is HARDER to macro...it's just more punishing if you screw up.
Yes but, if you forget to make units as Z but you have been keeping up with spawn larva, you can oh shit a bunch of them cause your money has piled. But if you forget to make units as T or P, and your money has piled the best you can do is queue units up, or oh shit a bunch of unit producing structures(that you wont be able to use to their fullest extent). So terran and protoss unit production is more punishing if you screw up. So do you want to remember to have to spam units? Or remember to have to spam spawn larva?
I have a hard time seeing how it would be possible to remember to spawn larva, but forget to build units. If I have a problem in this regard, it is almost always the exact opposite: When I am having a rough time, I will panic-build units, but I will forget to spawn larva, and then I am super fucked because I can't make anything by the time I realize I've been forgetting to spawn larva. It's lost me a couple games recently.
I don't really know how I manage this, considering I have hatches on 4 and queens on 5. I just forget to spawn the larva.
Well I more so mean for terran, it seems hard to remember to constantly build units. I compare them having to remember to constantly build units to me having to constantly remember to spawn larva.
edit: basically they have to check a status bar, ie the units building, while i have to check on hatches
i wonder if you could modify carriers to shoot carriers and then loop it so the carriers shoot carriers and more carriers and goes on until your starcraft explodes
Which is the most useless unit: Carriers, Mothership or Archons?
I'm really gonna have to go w/ Mothership.
I'm going to DT rush specifically to make Archons.
if you're not going to go hide them in a corner of the map/proxied close to base, you seal in your base, you pretty much can only afford zealots and cannons, as all your gas goes to Starports and VRs.
That hiding isn't necessary. Building a few VRs is not the kind of all in strategy that would require a gigantic wall in the front of your base. As you're teching you can get the standard 1 zealot/sentry/stalker, and by not building canons (or building only one cannon) you save money for other things that are more useful than static defenses. Like more zealots. Or void rays.
McSnuggles posted some replays in the old thread of him doing exactly what I've just described. I also seem to recall HuK doing it a lot in the late beta and first month of the game. You really don't need a ton of static defenses for this kind of thing.
If I see you with that kind of wall, I'm going to expand at least twice and simply starve you out. You're not going to be able to build enough VRs on one base to handle that kind of thing.
bye forgoing Warp Gate Research, and one sentry, you've got your gas for your first startport. you want to be pumping from 2 stars, so you need 300 gas just to get the structs up. 150 gas per VR, and i don't know how you're doing anything except building VRs, Zealots and the occassional cannon. maybe if you manage to find enough to expand in there, but while you will have some minerals to spend on a typical quick VR, Gas is defeinitely your limiting input. Anyone pops in with a reasonable force before 2 VRs are out, and you're totally toast. you can defend after the first 2 VRs, but your surprise factor is a little lower on teh VR's :-) Takes about 4 VRs to go in and LOLRay their base unless they have perfect intelligence and know where/when to position their counter.
"I'm gonna sit on my one base and make only Void Rays and hope that you respond incorrectly" is a specific use of VRs and if that's pretty much all you want to do then cannons can't hurt. A good player will see the wall + cannons and prepare for VRs, but they'd probably not fall to that build anyway.
It's perfectly possible to incorporate VRs into a normal build with no cannons, but I feel that's a very different type of thing and is probably not something you're going to see poor players pull off well. Phoenixes in PvT are almost standard, for example, and they're almost as gas-expensive as VRs.
VRs don't really go with a mixed force until you get the speed upgrade... then they're suddenly a viable part of your entrie game...
Phoenixes take 100g-150g for VRs. You can still pump a stalker out with the extra gas, that you couldnt have gotten if going VR.
"I'm gonna sit on my one base and make only Void Rays and hope that you respond incorrectly" is a specific use of VRs and if that's pretty much all you want to do then cannons can't hurt. A good player will see the wall + cannons and prepare for VRs, but they'd probably not fall to that build anyway.
It's perfectly possible to incorporate VRs into a normal build with no cannons, but I feel that's a very different type of thing and is probably not something you're going to see poor players pull off well. Phoenixes in PvT are almost standard, for example, and they're almost as gas-expensive as VRs.
VRs don't really go with a mixed force until you get the speed upgrade... then they're suddenly a viable part of your entrie game...
Phoenixes take 100g-150g for VRs. You can still pump a stalker out with the extra gas, that you couldnt have gotten if going VR.
Phoenixes also build quicker. It works out to be 2.5 gas per second for VRs, and 2.2 gas per second for Phoenixes.
edit: there was a PvT build I saw on the TL forums where you go Void Ray/Stalker in order to break his wall, using the VRs as vision for the Stalkers.
"I'm gonna sit on my one base and make only Void Rays and hope that you respond incorrectly" is a specific use of VRs and if that's pretty much all you want to do then cannons can't hurt. A good player will see the wall + cannons and prepare for VRs, but they'd probably not fall to that build anyway.
It's perfectly possible to incorporate VRs into a normal build with no cannons, but I feel that's a very different type of thing and is probably not something you're going to see poor players pull off well. Phoenixes in PvT are almost standard, for example, and they're almost as gas-expensive as VRs.
VRs don't really go with a mixed force until you get the speed upgrade... then they're suddenly a viable part of your entrie game...
Phoenixes take 100g-150g for VRs. You can still pump a stalker out with the extra gas, that you couldnt have gotten if going VR.
If you have paid for premium GSL vods you should check out Clide vs HungunPrime game 3. Hongun showed some insanely well done early VR+troop pressure there. Slow VRs are extremely gimmicky used as a pure harass unit, but pretty awesome if used with a good ground army.
I've found 3 warp gate stargate is not too bad, spending your money on mainly your gateway units, and building up the voids, poking at your enemy to "force a defensive posture" while you expand. As long as you keep the voids alive, you can push from 2 fronts with critical mass of 4-5 VRs.
Then again, I really have no idea what im doing most of the time.
Doomninja on
0
MaratastikJust call me Mara, please!Registered Userregular
bye forgoing Warp Gate Research, and one sentry, you've got your gas for your first startport. you want to be pumping from 2 stars, so you need 300 gas just to get the structs up.
That's your problem right there. Trying to pump voidrays from two starports on one base. Of course you can't support anything else. Pumping voidrays from one stargate on one base on the other hand....you can actually support gateway units. Whether or not you think this is a viable build over massing nothing but voidrays is another matter entirely.
Lately, I've completely changed my game up and no longer try to tech while on one base(most toss tech is way too gas intensive). I wait till I expand and then chose a tech route. (The exception to this is an early robo for observers).
"I'm gonna sit on my one base and make only Void Rays and hope that you respond incorrectly" is a specific use of VRs and if that's pretty much all you want to do then cannons can't hurt. A good player will see the wall + cannons and prepare for VRs, but they'd probably not fall to that build anyway.
It's perfectly possible to incorporate VRs into a normal build with no cannons, but I feel that's a very different type of thing and is probably not something you're going to see poor players pull off well. Phoenixes in PvT are almost standard, for example, and they're almost as gas-expensive as VRs.
You can VR harass perfectly well with one stargate without completely sacrificing your army. And I'm not simply talking about sending your VRs in along with the main attack force.
It's a harassment strategy that allows the player to make the opponent feel too uncomfortable to properly counter attack, make them overreact and build a shitload of marines/static defenses, allow the protoss player to comfortably expand, and then tech to something else to counter-counter. I see it done all the time. I used to do it in my own Silverish newb way. It doesn't require a huge wall or two Stargates. Just a little scouting and some timely harass.
If you don't believe me, look up the McSnuggles videos I mentioned. He's probably floating around here somewhere if you can't find 'em. I just watched them last night. Good example of what I'm talking about from a Diamond player. I don't recall much walling beyond Gateway/Cybercore and a few units at his ramp.
Posts
I'm going to DT rush specifically to make Archons.
uhhh....
Joe's Stream.
This feels like such a huge waste of minerals and totally telegraphs their play.
Especially because I see people go for void rays without a hard wall all the time. I don't understand why people feel the need to put four canons in front of their ramp just to build one or two VRs.
if you're not going to go hide them in a corner of the map/proxied close to base, you seal in your base, you pretty much can only afford zealots and cannons, as all your gas goes to Starports and VRs.
Joe's Stream.
uh what?
DTs don't turn into archons
B.net: Kusanku
Where is this?
Yes, they do
http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/archon
In SC2 they do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3I5h7UaOuk
what?
Joe's Stream.
Yep.
Plus, it already has big name streams in the OP since mine is there
DTs and HTs are interchangeable when making Archons in Starcraft 2.
The more you know [insert rainbow here]
SC2 NA: exoplasm.519 | PA SC2 Mumble Server | My Website | My Stream
i've had decent sized groups of DTs before... how on earth did i miss the "Merge into Archons" button?
Joe's Stream.
Indeed they do, my friends. Indeed they do.
But back to the VR discussion:
That hiding isn't necessary. Building a few VRs is not the kind of all in strategy that would require a gigantic wall in the front of your base. As you're teching you can get the standard 1 zealot/sentry/stalker, and by not building canons (or building only one cannon) you save money for other things that are more useful than static defenses. Like more zealots. Or void rays.
McSnuggles posted some replays in the old thread of him doing exactly what I've just described. I also seem to recall HuK doing it a lot in the late beta and first month of the game. You really don't need a ton of static defenses for this kind of thing.
If I see you with that kind of wall, I'm going to expand at least twice and simply starve you out. You're not going to be able to build enough VRs on one base to handle that kind of thing.
Yes but, if you forget to make units as Z but you have been keeping up with spawn larva, you can oh shit a bunch of them cause your money has piled. But if you forget to make units as T or P, and your money has piled the best you can do is queue units up, or oh shit a bunch of unit producing structures(that you wont be able to use to their fullest extent). So terran and protoss unit production is more punishing if you screw up. So do you want to remember to have to spam units? Or remember to have to spam spawn larva?
It's perfectly possible to incorporate VRs into a normal build with no cannons, but I feel that's a very different type of thing and is probably not something you're going to see poor players pull off well. Phoenixes in PvT are almost standard, for example, and they're almost as gas-expensive as VRs.
I have a hard time seeing how it would be possible to remember to spawn larva, but forget to build units. If I have a problem in this regard, it is almost always the exact opposite: When I am having a rough time, I will panic-build units, but I will forget to spawn larva, and then I am super fucked because I can't make anything by the time I realize I've been forgetting to spawn larva. It's lost me a couple games recently.
I don't really know how I manage this, considering I have hatches on 4 and queens on 5. I just forget to spawn the larva.
Hoping we see a zerg in the semis, but not sure it's very likely. At least sSKS has a decent chance of taking it, although intotherainbow might just win over him.
and I lost some
so it was a pretty average day
Well I more so mean for terran, it seems hard to remember to constantly build units. I compare them having to remember to constantly build units to me having to constantly remember to spawn larva.
edit: basically they have to check a status bar, ie the units building, while i have to check on hatches
bye forgoing Warp Gate Research, and one sentry, you've got your gas for your first startport. you want to be pumping from 2 stars, so you need 300 gas just to get the structs up. 150 gas per VR, and i don't know how you're doing anything except building VRs, Zealots and the occassional cannon. maybe if you manage to find enough to expand in there, but while you will have some minerals to spend on a typical quick VR, Gas is defeinitely your limiting input. Anyone pops in with a reasonable force before 2 VRs are out, and you're totally toast. you can defend after the first 2 VRs, but your surprise factor is a little lower on teh VR's :-) Takes about 4 VRs to go in and LOLRay their base unless they have perfect intelligence and know where/when to position their counter.
Joe's Stream.
well hopefully it's awesome
links?
Edit: i can't believe you guys didn't know DTs turned into archons.
change "sir" to "sid" right this fucking second
VRs don't really go with a mixed force until you get the speed upgrade... then they're suddenly a viable part of your entrie game...
Phoenixes take 100g-150g for VRs. You can still pump a stalker out with the extra gas, that you couldnt have gotten if going VR.
Joe's Stream.
edit: there was a PvT build I saw on the TL forums where you go Void Ray/Stalker in order to break his wall, using the VRs as vision for the Stalkers.
If you have paid for premium GSL vods you should check out Clide vs HungunPrime game 3. Hongun showed some insanely well done early VR+troop pressure there. Slow VRs are extremely gimmicky used as a pure harass unit, but pretty awesome if used with a good ground army.
Then again, I really have no idea what im doing most of the time.
That's your problem right there. Trying to pump voidrays from two starports on one base. Of course you can't support anything else. Pumping voidrays from one stargate on one base on the other hand....you can actually support gateway units. Whether or not you think this is a viable build over massing nothing but voidrays is another matter entirely.
Lately, I've completely changed my game up and no longer try to tech while on one base(most toss tech is way too gas intensive). I wait till I expand and then chose a tech route. (The exception to this is an early robo for observers).
If you can beat a pro Terran in 6 out of 10 matches, you get $200.
SC2 NA: exoplasm.519 | PA SC2 Mumble Server | My Website | My Stream
You can VR harass perfectly well with one stargate without completely sacrificing your army. And I'm not simply talking about sending your VRs in along with the main attack force.
It's a harassment strategy that allows the player to make the opponent feel too uncomfortable to properly counter attack, make them overreact and build a shitload of marines/static defenses, allow the protoss player to comfortably expand, and then tech to something else to counter-counter. I see it done all the time. I used to do it in my own Silverish newb way. It doesn't require a huge wall or two Stargates. Just a little scouting and some timely harass.
If you don't believe me, look up the McSnuggles videos I mentioned. He's probably floating around here somewhere if you can't find 'em. I just watched them last night. Good example of what I'm talking about from a Diamond player. I don't recall much walling beyond Gateway/Cybercore and a few units at his ramp.
wonder who the terran is