Final Fantasy 14: Where crafting is half the battle! [FFXIV crafting]

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  • ostermeiostermei Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    If you're looking to eventually expand it to a more general audience (i.e., not just FFXIV), it looks like MMO-crafting.com is available.

    ostermei on
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  • jdmichaljdmichal Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Registered for the hosting today. Should have everything up and running in 1-2 days.

    EDIT: I have almost everything set up. I managed to screw up the database connection, and won't be able to fix it until I get home tonight.

    So expected ETA for the WangExchange is 7P EDT.

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  • AtomBombAtomBomb Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    My expectations for WangExchange are unreasonably high!

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  • nevilleneville The Worst Gay (Seriously. The Worst!)Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    jdmichal wrote: »
    AtomBomb wrote: »
    jdmichal wrote: »
    I have characters and provisions working for the site. That includes dynamic searching and adding items via YG, with hover-over tooltips! (That took like an entire night by itself.)

    I will probably host that part of it at least as soon as I get the hosting up; realistically sometime this weekend, since it will also involve database configuration. I might also get some level of requests working by then.

    Exciting! I actually saw you playing last night and resisted the urge to yell at you to get back to work :P

    Thanks for what sounds like a whole lot of effort, it's appreciated.

    Hey, I only really get one solid night a week to play. But I can code during lots of nights. So thanks for not yelling at me :)

    Also, the final product is woefully small. It's all the random flailing I did between the empty page and that final product that's taking so much time!

    What's a link to your page you're working on?
    Also, any future plans? After November I should have a lot more free time, so I'd be willing to pitch in if there's something that people would find useful and needs some dev work on.

    neville on
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  • jdmichaljdmichal Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Without any further ado, because I'm already 10 minutes late...

    I present: Heads, Butts, and Shafts!

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  • MaguanoMaguano Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    yay. Nicely done.
    now i just need for the kidling to go to sleep so i can log into the game and see what crap i have on my retainer.

    speaking of retainers, should we add a 2nd character for your retainer, or just dump all data under the main toon?

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  • jdmichaljdmichal Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Maguano wrote: »
    yay. Nicely done.
    now i just need for the kidling to go to sleep so i can log into the game and see what crap i have on my retainer.

    speaking of retainers, should we add a 2nd character for your retainer, or just dump all data under the main toon?

    That is completely up to you. If you do put them under a retainer, I would suggest putting a last name of "Retainer", just so people know.

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  • MaguanoMaguano Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    sounds good. My retainer is chock full of mats that i need to unload.

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  • jdmichaljdmichal Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Also, note that provisions are currently only used by the system in the Requests::Available area. The system is really made to work around requests, not provisions. I want to let you all use it a bit and tell me what is necessary, rather than trying to come up with it myself. So consider what you see suggestions.

    Also, you can provide links to your requests by going to Requests::Mine. The URL of the Details link is available for any user to view.

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  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2010
    Thanks for going to the effort. This ought to really help out a lot!

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
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  • IndieGirlIndieGirl Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    jdmichal wrote: »
    Also, note that provisions are currently only used by the system in the Requests::Available area. The system is really made to work around requests, not provisions. I want to let you all use it a bit and tell me what is necessary, rather than trying to come up with it myself. So consider what you see suggestions.

    Also, you can provide links to your requests by going to Requests::Mine. The URL of the Details link is available for any user to view.

    I'm kind of confused, as a gatherer, how I say "I have this shit, who wants it?" I thought it would be under available but now I don't see what I added showing up anywhere. How do I do that?

    IndieGirl on
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  • MaguanoMaguano Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    jdmichal wrote: »
    Also, note that provisions are currently only used by the system in the Requests::Available area. The system is really made to work around requests, not provisions. I want to let you all use it a bit and tell me what is necessary, rather than trying to come up with it myself. So consider what you see suggestions.

    Also, you can provide links to your requests by going to Requests::Mine. The URL of the Details link is available for any user to view.


    so, phase 1 is
    1 goto site, create a request, "hey i want/need this"
    2 someone goes to site and says, "hey i can deliver this"
    3 we have a love connection?

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  • IndieGirlIndieGirl Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Maguano wrote: »
    jdmichal wrote: »
    Also, note that provisions are currently only used by the system in the Requests::Available area. The system is really made to work around requests, not provisions. I want to let you all use it a bit and tell me what is necessary, rather than trying to come up with it myself. So consider what you see suggestions.

    Also, you can provide links to your requests by going to Requests::Mine. The URL of the Details link is available for any user to view.


    so, phase 1 is
    1 goto site, create a request, "hey i want/need this"
    2 someone goes to site and says, "hey i can deliver this"
    3 we have a love connection?

    Is there a way for someone to "claim" available goods and/or requests? I couldn't find a way for someone to say "Hey I want that!" for the item I posted, not sure if the same is true for requests but that would be my first major feature request if it's possible. Maybe something along the lines of a page that says "X wants your Y/X wants your Z" and auto-removes them so we don't have to shuffle items or bloat?

    Another really nice thing would be a way to autodelete items after say, 3 days if no one has claimed them. That way I know no one wants it and I can bazaar/vendor it.

    IndieGirl on
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  • jdmichaljdmichal Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    So the problem with that is it then creates two side-by-side systems. Some people are using Provisions and some people are using Requests.

    The idea behind this is to only have one possible action for something. That way everyone uses the same system. If you want something, open a request. It is then up to someone else to provide for it. The Requests::Available page shows you all requests for items you have marked as provisioned.

    The first patch is going to be to make requests with no quantity unclaimable. These will be the "open requests", mostly useful for grinding materials or things that are always needed. (Like Flax for Alchemists.)

    I don't want to add an automatic timer on provisions, because some of them will be long-lasting, like any LS stores we may eventually have. I can easily add a field to show how old provisions and requests are, though.

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  • IndieGirlIndieGirl Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    So maybe I missed my answer, but... does that mean there's no way for me to say "I have 800 maple saps, who wants it?" There are several of us that are strictly gatherers, we occasionally have requests for new tools and stuff but mostly are requests are more along the lines of plz take this shit off my hands.

    IndieGirl on
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  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2010
    IndieGirl wrote: »
    Another really nice thing would be a way to autodelete items after say, 3 days if no one has claimed them. That way I know no one wants it and I can bazaar/vendor it.

    I would like this to be optional for those who intent to hang onto things without vendoring them.

    Edit: Or at least that the auto-delete setting defaults to 0 for never and you can change it manually for things you don't intend to keep.

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
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  • IndieGirlIndieGirl Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    IndieGirl wrote: »
    Another really nice thing would be a way to autodelete items after say, 3 days if no one has claimed them. That way I know no one wants it and I can bazaar/vendor it.

    I would like this to be optional for those who intent to hang onto things without vendoring them.

    Edit: Or at least that the auto-delete setting defaults to 0 for never and you can change it manually for things you don't intend to keep.

    Yeah I think most likely I will just say "expires 11/5" or whatever date in my description field and give people time. I am generally levelling two DoL jobs at once and simply do not have the space to hang on to low demand items for more than a day or two, as much as I would love to.

    IndieGirl on
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  • jdmichaljdmichal Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    IndieGirl wrote: »
    So maybe I missed my answer, but... does that mean there's no way for me to say "I have 800 maple saps, who wants it?" There are several of us that are strictly gatherers, we occasionally have requests for new tools and stuff but mostly are requests are more along the lines of plz take this shit off my hands.

    Let's propose that you have something you want. You could go claim a provision, and then wait for that person to log in, see your claim, and deliver it to you. Or, you can open a request for it. Worst case is that that same person you would have claimed it from anyway logs in and grabs the request, and then delivers it, thus achieving the same goal in the exact same amount of time. But, this also gives the opportunity for someone else to log in first, see the request, and claim it instead, getting you the item sooner than claiming the provision.

    Going by this, if there's not an open request for an item you're provisioning, you assume that no one currently wants that item. If you don't see an open request for some time, then it's pretty safe to assume that you can otherwise dispose of it. Vendor trash and low demand items will be such with or without this system. It can not help you get rid of things no one needs.

    The bottom line is that if people aren't opening requests for items they want or need, the system is not going to work. But, in that case, there is also no way to modify the system to make it work.

    EDIT: I feel like I should also say, I know where you're coming from, because my primaries are MRD and MIN. But creating a less-efficient parallel system is not the answer to the problem. People opening requests for every item they can use now or in the future is the answer.

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  • IndieGirlIndieGirl Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    jdmichal wrote: »
    IndieGirl wrote: »
    So maybe I missed my answer, but... does that mean there's no way for me to say "I have 800 maple saps, who wants it?" There are several of us that are strictly gatherers, we occasionally have requests for new tools and stuff but mostly are requests are more along the lines of plz take this shit off my hands.

    Let's propose that you have something you want. You could go claim a provision, and then wait for that person to log in, see your claim, and deliver it to you. Or, you can open a request for it. Worst case is that that same person you would have claimed it from anyway logs in and grabs the request, and then delivers it, thus achieving the same goal in the exact same amount of time. But, this also gives the opportunity for someone else to log in first, see the request, and claim it instead, getting you the item sooner than claiming the provision.

    Going by this, if there's not an open request for an item you're provisioning, you assume that no one currently wants that item. If you don't see an open request for some time, then it's pretty safe to assume that you can otherwise dispose of it. Vendor trash and low demand items will be such with or without this system. It can not help you get rid of things no one needs.

    The bottom line is that if people aren't opening requests for items they want or need, the system is not going to work. But, in that case, there is also no way to modify the system to make it work.

    EDIT: I feel like I should also say, I know where you're coming from, because my primaries are MRD and MIN. But creating a less-efficient parallel system is not the answer to the problem. People opening requests for every item they can use now or in the future is the answer.

    Yes but let me say that I have 5 stacks of crow feathers. Those are pretty nice to grind on around WVR15, but people are probably not going to open requests for crow feathers. However, if they saw that I had 5 stacks I was trying to offload, they would probably take it. That goes for most of the shit I have in my inventory with the exception of some very high demand alchemy items, wind shards, and rainbow trout.

    Bottom line for me is, if I can't log in and manage things I would like to give away as a gatherer, I most likely won't use the system. People know I gather and if they need things they ask me for them and I go get them. I figure it's enough I spend 95% of my time running around hitting various nodes, I would be kind of irritated if I then had to spend an hour going back and forth matching my inventory to a list of open requests to see if anyone might need the various stuff I have.

    Your system is GREAT if you're a crafter or if you need crafted stuff and I am not trying to say it's not, but as someone who solely gathers, it doesn't really do what I need it to do to save me time and be useful.

    In regards to the bolded statement, that isn't really fair at this point and is not what I'm trying to do. A) there isn't really a whole lot of vendor trash at this point. I'd argue that you could find a use for just about anything in your bag. B) the stuff that you CAN'T find a use for probably has a use that hasn't been found yet.

    I understand that you have a vision in mind for your project and as someone who could not code her way out of a paper bag I applaud and appreciate what you've done here. I do feel kind of like you think what I'm asking for doesn't make sense or is counterintuitive or something which is why I have explained it as much as I have. <3

    IndieGirl on
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  • jdmichaljdmichal Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    What you described is completely unaffected by someone being able to claim a provision or not. People would still have to somehow know that you are provisioning the Crow Feathers, probably by search for it. But by searching for it, they already have some idea of getting some. At this point, the exact situation I described in my last post is present, and it is more efficient for them to simply open a request for Crows Feathers and let the providers (and possibly you) deliver, than to claim a provision.

    Also, matching provisions to open requests is a single operation. Go to Requests::Available. Done.

    I guess I'm not understanding what changes you want to see, other than claiming provisions, which will not actually solve any problems, and will only make things less efficient. If what you want is another way to see what provisions are available beyond searching by item, then I can definitely do that.

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  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2010
    Since there is no mail system, you still have to meet the person in game to get the items you want. Seeing who has what is enough at this stage, no?

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  • SaphierSaphier Aka Errant Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Registered my name on there... I don't see anyone else's requests. Gonna throw a few things up there to test it out =) Looks great!

    Hmm... so, you can't see a full list of requested items? I can provide a ton of stuff, and it would be very time consuming to list every single item. For example... Copper rivets, copper buckles, bronze rivets, bronze buckles, brass rivets, brass buckles, iron rivets, iron buckles, silver rivets, silver buckles, darksilver rivets, darksilver buckles...

    Or if someone wants a piece of armor, like KF wanting a celata tonight. It'd be nice to just look and see if anyone wants X piece of armor, not list every piece of armor I can craft first...

    Apologies if this is already implimented and I'm just too dense to identify the method to view it.

    Saphier on
  • useruser Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I put up what I wanted, and also my basic list of available leathers, straps and cords. I'm not going to list every individual crafted part I can make because, what the fuck.

    user on
  • MoiraMoira Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Registered and put in some cooking ingredient requests. Is there a way to just browse the registry of who is participating and what's provided/requested? It'd be a nice feature and easier to find out what people need.

    I'm a little unclear on how to use the front page where it says "ready for pickup" "ready for delivery" and "ready for work."

    Submitting requests and listing what I can provide was simple enough.

    Moira on
  • jdmichaljdmichal Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Unfortunately, YG doesn't expose items by tradeskill through their API, and I am relying on them for the item databases. I'll see if I can think up an easy way to do such.

    I suppose a Requests::Open page wouldn't be too overwhelming with the 20ish active users I expect us to have. (At 16 as of now, but I already see most of the names I expected to. And yes, I can see the database. And no, I can't see your password. Here's what my password looks like in the database:
    sJeIdbPK8wP1+ajQ/XOwxbASRCE=
    

    And I'm glad to see at least one cook getting on. I figured alchemy and cooking would benefit from this the most, as they have all the recipes with random stuff that no one knows they need. Like Flax.
    Yes, I will forever be bitter.
    Just kidding. I think it's funny.

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  • IndieGirlIndieGirl Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    jdmichal wrote: »
    Unfortunately, YG doesn't expose items by tradeskill through their API, and I am relying on them for the item databases. I'll see if I can think up an easy way to do such.

    If not tradeskill, the how about its category? For example, I can specifically search and see that Moira needs Rainbow Trout (sorry Moira, I don't have any, I got disconnected during my leve last night and that's where I get all my trouts) but trout is also classified as "Freshwater Fare," like Highland Parsley is classified as a "Vegetable" and Flax is classified as a "Fiber."

    I am also humbly requesting a browsable list of open requests. If I'm understanding the system correctly, a crafter has to have either inputted that they can make X item so that it can be paired with a person when they request it, or specifically search for an open request for X item? I see that you're trying to keep things from becoming cluttered, but it may be at the expense of ease of use for the people doing the providing part of the deal.

    Unless I am completely misunderstanding the system, which is entirely possible - probably even - in which case I apologize in advance.

    IndieGirl on
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  • IndieGirlIndieGirl Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Okay so I have sort of figured out (and I now realize you said this last night but not really in a way I could grasp it) that if I just enter all the stuff I have under provisions, and someone requests it, and I look under my Requests > Available tab it will show up. If I "provide" it to someone, does it then automatically delete from my provisions?

    Also I can see how this would be really difficult for the crafters. Is there any way to maybe show them as provisioning any recipe that falls at or below their skill level, assuming of course they keep their level up to date? For example, Zeph says he's a level 25 LW, so he's recognized by the site as able to provision all recipes requiring a skill of less than or equal to 25 LW on YG. Does that make sense?

    IndieGirl on
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  • AtomBombAtomBomb Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    How do I work with something that doesn't show up in the search? For example, when I search for "sheepskin", I see these items:

    Item Name:

    Sheepskin Targe
    Sheepskin Pot Helm
    Sheepskin Jerkin
    Sheepskin Jerkin (Brown)
    Sheepskin Jerkin (Grey)
    Sheepskin Jerkin (Beige)
    Sheepskin Harness (Taupe)
    Sheepskin Harness (Grey)
    Sheepskin Culottes
    Sheepskin Culottes (Grey)

    But not "Sheepskin". On YG it's not the first thing listed either, it's #7 after Fingerless Sheepskin Gloves and various Padded Sheepskin Duckbills.

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  • jdmichaljdmichal Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    IndieGirl wrote: »
    If not tradeskill, the how about its category?

    The recipe levels are changing all the time, so it would be very difficult to keep it up to date. But, the item category is static, and provides a similar function. Let me think about that one, but that is probably a good idea.
    IndieGirl wrote: »
    I am also humbly requesting a browsable list of open requests. [...] I see that you're trying to keep things from becoming cluttered, but it may be at the expense of ease of use for the people doing the providing part of the deal.

    I was trying keeping things from being cluttered, but I think I agree with you that for the small audience it's probably more of a hinderance than a help. I'll be adding the view for all open (that is, non-provided) requests tonight.
    AtomBomb wrote: »
    How do I work with something that doesn't show up in the search? For example, when I search for "sheepskin", I see these items:

    Item Name:

    Sheepskin Targe
    Sheepskin Pot Helm
    Sheepskin Jerkin
    Sheepskin Jerkin (Brown)
    Sheepskin Jerkin (Grey)
    Sheepskin Jerkin (Beige)
    Sheepskin Harness (Taupe)
    Sheepskin Harness (Grey)
    Sheepskin Culottes
    Sheepskin Culottes (Grey)

    But not "Sheepskin". On YG it's not the first thing listed either, it's #7 after Fingerless Sheepskin Gloves and various Padded Sheepskin Duckbills.

    That's definitely going to be a problem. YG only gives 10 results for their search API, and there's not a whole lot I can do about that. I'll email them to see if they can make sure that exact matches are always on the list of 10. In the mean time, the only solution I can think of is allowing searches by ID along with name. That would require you to look up the item on YG, copy its ID from the URL, then paste it in the search box. I'll probably add that tonight, along with the open requests view.

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  • jdmichaljdmichal Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I have posted on YG's forums about this problem:

    http://forums.yg.com/showthread.php?p=3766

    We'll see how long they take to get back.

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  • AtomBombAtomBomb Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Searching by ID isn't perfect, but it's a good work around for now. Thanks again for all the work on this!

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  • SaphierSaphier Aka Errant Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    As an example of how being able to see a list of everything being requested is needed: I put a request up for 3 pink canvas sleeves. I can almost guarantee no one is going to put up a provision for pink canvas sleeves though, so there's no way it'll get passed along as a requested item.

    While on the subject, could it also be made to view all of a specific player's provisions and requests? That way I can keep a close eye on what the other 25+ crafters are after. Requests from highly active folks I play chat with all the time hold a bit more priority with me than folks who I only see once a week (though I'll do my best to help everyone, as time permits).

    Saphier on
  • jdmichaljdmichal Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Updates:
    • Requests::All
    • Provisions::All
    • Requests with no quantity may not be claimed.
    • Item searches now automatically recognize IDs and search accordingly.

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  • jdmichaljdmichal Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Saphier wrote: »
    While on the subject, could it also be made to view all of a specific player's provisions and requests? That way I can keep a close eye on what the other 25+ crafters are after. Requests from highly active folks I play chat with all the time hold a bit more priority with me than folks who I only see once a week (though I'll do my best to help everyone, as time permits).

    I was thinking of adding this very functionality earlier today. It will have to wait until the next update, though.

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  • MoiraMoira Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    jdmichal wrote: »
    Updates:
    • Requests::All
    • Provisions::All
    • Requests with no quantity may not be claimed.
    • Item searches now automatically recognize IDs and search accordingly.

    So does this mean that all requests must have a quantity? I listed general ingredients without quantities since they are open requests for items I use frequently.

    Just need clarification please.

    Thank you very much for all of your hard work. It is appreciated.

    Moira on
  • SaphierSaphier Aka Errant Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    That looks awesome! I'll be filling some orders as soon as I get off work tonight =)

    Here's an idea, maybe a page break in between 'open/ongoing' orders and normal orders? And a checkbox to designate an ongoing/open orders ? Some folks are leaving quantities blank, others are requesting 9999. Awesome, amazing job, thank you very much for this!

    Saphier on
  • MoiraMoira Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    The most recent changes have made the database much easier to use. Thank you!

    Moira on
  • IndieGirlIndieGirl Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Moira wrote: »
    jdmichal wrote: »
    Updates:
    • Requests::All
    • Provisions::All
    • Requests with no quantity may not be claimed.
    • Item searches now automatically recognize IDs and search accordingly.

    So does this mean that all requests must have a quantity? I listed general ingredients without quantities since they are open requests for items I use frequently.

    Just need clarification please.

    Thank you very much for all of your hard work. It is appreciated.

    Actually if it's an open request it looks like you should not use a quantity, that way it can't be "filled" and removed. I filled your lemon and parsley request and it looks they were removed because they either had quantities or the behavior was changed at some point after I filled them (so reopen them).

    And also this is fast becoming close to perfect. Would it be a total pain to make the Requests:All and Provisions:All page sortable by name and/or item by any chance?

    IndieGirl on
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  • useruser Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Could you make it so that I can edit the quantity of an existing request? Not a huge issue, if it's too troublesome.

    user on
  • jdmichaljdmichal Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    So, as a general answer: Requests without quantities are unclaimable "open requests", though I think I might switch that language to be "ongoing requests" per Saphier, as that is much more self-explanatory. Claimed requests are basically invisible to anyone but the requester and provider, so having open requests allows you to list requests for items you need a lot of without having to reopen them every time someone claims it.

    I'm not sure I want to separate these into two lists, because it seems like it's more convenient together since the Requests::All view is sorted by item, then quantity. I can add the ability to sort to the control, but that will only sort on one column I think.

    I can easily make the quantity and details editable on a request, in the Details page. I'll add this the next update. Also on the list for next update is making the details pages reflect proper permissions. Right now, anyone with a link to the Details page for a provision or request can mark it as ready or delete it. Obviously not desirable.

    EDIT: Until the next update, please feel free to message me any editing requests, and I will modify them in the database. I already ran a query to modify any request with the word 'open' in the details to have no quantity.

    jdmichal on
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