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SC2 Multiplayer talk. 10 depot/12 rax/13 gas/15 oc or (baneling) bust!

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Posts

  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    not quite the roach buff I wanted, but it should help. roaches stick out like a sore thumb as a unit in need of a buff.

    I had 3 people try to cannon wall me in yesterday. didn't really work, but it does delay your hatch. If they try it though I know I can just churn drones after I make a few lings to deal with it and won every game against it.

    Jars on
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    So fuckin protoss can still cannon contain straight off the bat and I have to make a depot before I can even defend myself? That's...fantastic. And by fantastic I mean stupid.

    seriously just go proxy yourself a forge in your terran opponents base and oh he can't do shit about it now!

    SkutSkut on
  • rehtonAesoohCrehtonAesoohC Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes.

    Well that's silly...

    RIP 6 supply proxy reaper rush, I barely knew you :(.

    rehtonAesoohC on
    Was wowed by Rift so I'm trying that now.
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2010
    I'm no expert but that feels like making reaper rushes completely impossible.

    Honk on
    PSN: Honkalot
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Jars wrote: »
    not quite the roach buff I wanted, but it should help. roaches stick out like a sore thumb as a unit in need of a buff.

    last night when we were doing funday, a bunch of roaches got beat by queens and ghosts because they were fungaled slightly out of range, it was hilarious. Oh and later some carriers but that's not the point!

    So, will roaches be able to hit a pylon from the high ground in a cannon block now?

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • rehtonAesoohCrehtonAesoohC Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    So fuckin protoss can still cannon contain straight off the bat and I have to make a depot before I can even defend myself? That's...fantastic. And by fantastic I mean stupid.

    If you're following the standard 12 rax build, you shouldn't have a huge problem with cannon rushes as long as you catch the probe or pylon and kill it with SCV's, and micro correctly.

    rehtonAesoohC on
    Was wowed by Rift so I'm trying that now.
  • MonoxideMonoxide Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2010
    so Blizzard's finding is that PvT is skewed in favor of Protoss?

    and Zerg beats Terran more often in every league except Silver?

    what?

    Monoxide on
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Yea I always see people (in team games) go for the pylon that the probe drops, if you can surround and kill the probe even if it gets a cannon up you have lots of time to deal with it
    Monoxide wrote: »
    so Blizzard's finding is that PvT is skewed in favor of Protoss?

    and Zerg beats Terran more often in every league except Silver?

    what?

    It got cut off on last page but this data is from launch, and 4 gate was super friggin imba cruise control to diamond before

    override367 on
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    So fuckin protoss can still cannon contain straight off the bat and I have to make a depot before I can even defend myself? That's...fantastic. And by fantastic I mean stupid.

    If you're following the standard 12 rax build, you shouldn't have a huge problem with cannon rushes as long as you catch the probe or pylon and kill it with SCV's, and micro correctly.

    We'll see I guess. This means you're stuck with SCVs if they early cheese while they can poop gates and cannons and all kinds of dumb shit in your base. Also makes reapers 100% useless as their effectiveness window was already really small and now it's gone.

    Now if you'll excuse me I'll be in the angry dome.

    SkutSkut on
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Honk wrote: »
    I'm no expert but that feels like making reaper rushes completely impossible.

    Reaper harassment will still be fine, all-in reaper rushes (proxy reaper, 6 rax or 9 rax reaper) will be essentially dead.

    Should make 2v2 more tolerable.

    PotatoNinja on
    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    So fuckin protoss can still cannon contain straight off the bat and I have to make a depot before I can even defend myself? That's...fantastic. And by fantastic I mean stupid.

    If you're following the standard 12 rax build, you shouldn't have a huge problem with cannon rushes as long as you catch the probe or pylon and kill it with SCV's, and micro correctly.

    We'll see I guess. This means you're stuck with SCVs if they early cheese while they can poop gates and cannons and all kinds of dumb shit in your base. Also makes reapers 100% useless as their effectiveness window was already really small and now it's gone.

    Now if you'll excuse me I'll be in the angry dome.
    Do any Terrans actually open rax-first to prevent cheese, rather than perform it?

    His Corkiness on
  • rehtonAesoohCrehtonAesoohC Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    So fuckin protoss can still cannon contain straight off the bat and I have to make a depot before I can even defend myself? That's...fantastic. And by fantastic I mean stupid.

    If you're following the standard 12 rax build, you shouldn't have a huge problem with cannon rushes as long as you catch the probe or pylon and kill it with SCV's, and micro correctly.

    We'll see I guess. This means you're stuck with SCVs if they early cheese while they can poop gates and cannons and all kinds of dumb shit in your base. Also makes reapers 100% useless as their effectiveness window was already really small and now it's gone.

    Now if you'll excuse me I'll be in the angry dome.

    They can't "early cheese" while dropping pylons and cannons around your base... It's kind of an all-in deal. As long as you APM high enough to be dropping a rax, making SCV's and marines, a bunker, etc, you can deal with it effectively. Because they start with a forge super early, you'll already be ahead on econ.

    rehtonAesoohC on
    Was wowed by Rift so I'm trying that now.
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    So fuckin protoss can still cannon contain straight off the bat and I have to make a depot before I can even defend myself? That's...fantastic. And by fantastic I mean stupid.

    seriously just go proxy yourself a forge in your terran opponents base and oh he can't do shit about it now!

    I, uh, don't know about how this particular strategy plays out, but trying to cannon contain the race with the earliest defense-breaking unit and the earliest cliff-jumping unit and the deadliest infantry drop strategy seems, well, counter-intuitive.

    What do you do if you cannon contain a terran (who can stop enroaching cannons with a bunker) and they just send 2-3 reapers to your base? Can you afford forge + cannons + pylon + gateway + cybercore + gas + stalker before the terran can afford 2 reapers, 1 marauder, and 1 bunker?

    PotatoNinja on
    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    So fuckin protoss can still cannon contain straight off the bat and I have to make a depot before I can even defend myself? That's...fantastic. And by fantastic I mean stupid.

    If you're following the standard 12 rax build, you shouldn't have a huge problem with cannon rushes as long as you catch the probe or pylon and kill it with SCV's, and micro correctly.

    We'll see I guess. This means you're stuck with SCVs if they early cheese while they can poop gates and cannons and all kinds of dumb shit in your base. Also makes reapers 100% useless as their effectiveness window was already really small and now it's gone.

    Now if you'll excuse me I'll be in the angry dome.
    Do any Terrans actually open rax-first to prevent cheese, rather than perform it?

    I've been doing Rax 9 Depot 10 to get an early orbital command and to give me some options for fast reapers, fast marauders, or cheese protection.

    Its not a dramatically better build than a regular depot --> barracks, but having that early marine or early reaper / marauder was useful sometimes.

    PotatoNinja on
    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Monoxide wrote: »
    so Blizzard's finding is that PvT is skewed in favor of Protoss?

    and Zerg beats Terran more often in every league except Silver?

    what?

    edited b/c these stats are from launch

    valiance on
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    4 gate...

    I dunno about the zerg beating terran thing. I guess terrans are just generally bad players? :P

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    So fuckin protoss can still cannon contain straight off the bat and I have to make a depot before I can even defend myself? That's...fantastic. And by fantastic I mean stupid.

    seriously just go proxy yourself a forge in your terran opponents base and oh he can't do shit about it now!

    so how often do you go rax before depot in tvp?

    ever?

    Jars on
  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    disagree with barracks requiring supply depot. agree with factory needed for reaper speed upgrade. really i woulda been happy with increasing it to 100/100, 50/50 is nothing.

    i would like them to investigate tier1 units for team games. they are ridiculously viable unlike starcraft1 (except zealots really).

    TelMarine on
    3ds: 4983-4935-4575
  • TrusTrus Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Yay Roach buff!

    Trus on
    qFN53.png
  • mastmanmastman Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    wtb marauder range nerf from 6 to 5.

    I don't think they should balance anything around team games. 2v1 or 3v1ing someone in a team game makes everything seem OP.

    mastman on
    ByalIX8.png
    B.net: Kusanku
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Trus, was that not the sickest game ever last night?
    Have you watched the replay yet?

    The time when your slow ass ball of queens blocks his retreating zealots and he gets sandwiched between them and carriers is the most hilarious thing.

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • peacekeeperpeacekeeper AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The only thing I don't like is the roach range upgrade idea, it will make hellions and reapers silly and die, and marauders are too slow against zerglings to leave your base at the beginning to harass.

    peacekeeper on
  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    mastman wrote: »
    wtb marauder range nerf from 6 to 5.

    I don't think they should balance anything around team games. 2v1 or 3v1ing someone in a team game makes everything seem OP.

    i think the problem is they haven't been able to figure it out. Of course you can't survive 4v1 most of the time, 3v1 is very hard. Starcraft1, it was definitely more possible imo due to various reasons. Tough, but possible.

    TelMarine on
    3ds: 4983-4935-4575
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Jars wrote: »
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    So fuckin protoss can still cannon contain straight off the bat and I have to make a depot before I can even defend myself? That's...fantastic. And by fantastic I mean stupid.

    seriously just go proxy yourself a forge in your terran opponents base and oh he can't do shit about it now!

    so how often do you go rax before depot in tvp?

    ever?

    Well not anymore! :P

    but yes it's nice to have that marine on patrol or uhoh, double pylon in my corner on steppes or some small map like that, best throw down a ra...oh wait no I have to make a depot now while a single zealot kills 20+scvs and they funnel in.

    SkutSkut on
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The only thing I don't like is the roach range upgrade idea, it will make hellions and reapers silly and die, and marauders are too slow against zerglings to leave your base at the beginning to harass.

    Zerglings > Marauders

    Marauders > Roaches

    Hellions / Reapers > Zerglings

    Roaches > Hellions / Reapers

    All is well.

    PotatoNinja on
    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Marines > everything but banelings and fungal.

    Do hydras get used in anything but zvz now?

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    So fuckin protoss can still cannon contain straight off the bat and I have to make a depot before I can even defend myself? That's...fantastic. And by fantastic I mean stupid.

    seriously just go proxy yourself a forge in your terran opponents base and oh he can't do shit about it now!

    so how often do you go rax before depot in tvp?

    ever?

    Well not anymore! :P

    but yes it's nice to have that marine on patrol or uhoh, double pylon in my corner on steppes or some small map like that, best throw down a ra...oh wait no I have to make a depot now while a single zealot kills 20+scvs and they funnel in.

    You mean the zealots that build slower as of the most recent patch? :p

    You should be able to fight off a proxy with most standard build orders and some good micro and a cool head.

    PotatoNinja on
    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • McAllenMcAllen Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I think the Supply Depot for Barracks requirement is stupid, it closes a few strategies and it's just decreases a Terran's player to come back if you keep going for their depots.

    Reapers should be created after you make a Ghost Academy.

    Maybe require a Gateway to make a Forge instead.

    McAllen on
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Zealots and bunkers got the same speed nerf though :P

    And dammit I'll overreact if I want to! :lol:

    but yeah I guess it's not so bad, except the reaper stuff that's dumb, reapers lose all impact post factory tech.

    SkutSkut on
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    As a sign of solidarity to my terran brothers, I will only build a spawning pool after I have an overlord.

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Guess I've got to figure out a good way to beat the 5 Roach Rush if I ever plan on playing against PA Zergs again, huh

    His Corkiness on
  • mastmanmastman Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I still dislike how so much of the game evolves around ramps, and how zerg units have whole tons of melee guys, and terran and toss can just clog up these ramps with buildings or armored units and use their ranged everything to kill your guys trying to break in making it so hard to go in and win 1-base games as zerg. You have to lure them out of their bases before you can kill their guys.



    also, roaches rock toss gateway units, especially the 5rr. Feel sorry for you guys cause it's going to suck here for a bit :/

    edit to what v guy said. my last few attempts were force fielded and thwarted

    mastman on
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  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    force field? 5rr pretty much dies out in diamond because it's bad

    Jars on
  • Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    McAllen wrote: »
    I think the Supply Depot for Barracks requirement is stupid, it closes a few strategies and it's just decreases a Terran's player to come back if you keep going for their depots.

    Reapers should be created after you make a Ghost Academy.

    Maybe require a Gateway to make a Forge instead.

    gateways require a pylon haha

    Metal Gear Solid 2 Demo on
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  • TheBogTheBog Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Guess I've got to figure out a good way to beat the 5 Roach Rush if I ever plan on playing against PA Zergs again, huh

    Yeah, that's gonna be a hefty buff to 5RR. Looking forward to it.

    TheBog on
  • MuridenMuriden Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    TheStig wrote: »
    As a sign of solidarity to my terran brothers, I will only build a spawning pool after I have an overlord.

    And I will only build a gateway after a pylon. It will do terrible things to my build order but I will make this sacrifice.

    Muriden on
    MrGulio.332 - Lover of fine Cheeses. Replays
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  • MonoxideMonoxide Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2010
    McAllen wrote: »
    I think the Supply Depot for Barracks requirement is stupid, it closes a few strategies and it's just decreases a Terran's player to come back if you keep going for their depots.
    if you have zero barracks and zero supply depots, you aren't coming back.

    Monoxide on
  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    mastman wrote: »
    I still dislike how so much of the game evolves around ramps

    agree, im getting sick of ramp and shared bases.

    TelMarine on
    3ds: 4983-4935-4575
  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Jars wrote: »
    force field? 5rr pretty much dies out in diamond because it's bad
    Roaches may be able to fire over a force field after this patch (FF has a diameter of 3.4 now, so a 4 range roach would shoot over it).

    His Corkiness on
  • BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    TheBog wrote: »
    Guess I've got to figure out a good way to beat the 5 Roach Rush if I ever plan on playing against PA Zergs again, huh

    Yeah, that's gonna be a hefty buff to 5RR. Looking forward to it.

    Jars wrote: »
    force field? 5rr pretty much dies out in diamond because it's bad


    Or if you are Terran. 6 Marines or 2 Marauders? Bunker if you absolutely need to.

    Buddies on
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