I think the analogy goes beyond that. The matchmaking is supposed to make you win/lose 50/50 so it's pretty much just like flipping a coin.
Yes, but there's a level of skill beyond which the game can't find a suitable number of equally skilled opponents and you end up with a permanent W/L of greater than 0.50. Likewise, those at the very bottom end up absorbing these extra losses (trickle down economics!) as they are unable to find sufficiently bad opponents to climb up to a 0.50 W/L.
In practice I think most the "extra" losses are absorbed by people who only play a few times, though. Still, you can aim to be in that "permanently above 50%" bracket if you want.
I've noticed this, but other than my getting to 15 wins above 500 while on my way to diamond, I have since been almost perfectly 500 in my next 60 games.
Maratastik on
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
Yeah, that's it DarkMecha, attacking at good times.
They expanded and can't defend well for a few minutes, you just finished a key upgrade, etc.
Cool deal, glad I'm on the right track. Now to get better at recognizing these good timings.
Thanks for the help!
well I think its a little more than that. from what I understand timing attacks are fairly specific in the time they hit while also being both upgrade and matchup driven.
For example: say you have a tightly timed BO set up such that your +1 attack, stim and combat shields all finish at the same time (say 6:00 ), and then you push in at that timing point when you expect your enemy to be weak.
or a +1 zerg ground weapons push in ZvZ against a player going mass lings will devastate him because now your roaches 2 shot his lings instead of taking 3 shots.
the thing I wanted to emphasis is that timing attacks are very much built around your matchup and specific timings. theres a specific rationale behind a timing push, its a bit more detailed than attacking when youre strong and the enemy is weak. feeling it out is good but I think thats a separate more general skill than a timing attack. I'd try looking up the solid timing pushes out there before I'd try inventing my own--at least to understand the rationale behind each. but thats just me
while this isn't inaccurate, it is also true that if you say to yourself 'I think right when stim finishes I'll be ahead' and attack then, whether it was preplanned for that matchup or not, it's a timing attack.
eeSanGI slice like a goddamn hammer.Registered Userregular
edited October 2010
Don't forget that there is skill growth and that doesn't ever really stop if you don't want it to.
Of course it's possible to stunt skill growth with the wrong attitude but as long as you keep getting better, 50/50 is a good way to do it so you can learn from both your wins and losses.
eeSanG on
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
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INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
day9's stream is running like complete shit for me
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
I think zerglings should come with speed.
Then the spawning pool should give them an upgrade that makes them jump in the air and do an attack a specific target. Put it on a 10 minute cooldown or something. I don't care. This needs to happen.
Think about it. Not only would it help zerg with early banshees, but it would also be fucking hilarious.
Hey guys, i need help.
I can't seem to beat zerg. It's a relatively recent issue since i got moved up to plat. I play protoss, and no matter what i do, it seems i get rolled. I've tried 2 gate robo, 1 gate stargate, even a dt rush. i've gone 1-10 in my last games.
What do other toss players do against zerg/what are good openings against zerg?
I really think the only reason I haven't gotten demoted is because of my PvP matches... lol i've only lost one in like, the past 15 games or something
the one with mass roaches reminds me why i wish i could go mass roaches
there is something about being able to hold position micro forward towards somebody and see the volleys of acid
i guess it makes me feel like a terran
but i always get scared about air units
like, that one game in the IEM with idra where he was on the back foot for a while and suddenly pops 30 roaches and just hold positions into the guy's expo then base
Has anyone been using reapers to great effect lately? And in what matchup? I ask because I've pretty much completely stopped using them.
If I'm going to harass as terran, I tend to favor hellions. If I spend the gas on the factory and/or reactor instead of reapers, then I have a harass unit AND a factory that can now transition me to Thor or Tank and get me closer to starport tech, instead of being stuck with a bunch of barracks w/techlabs.
In my TvZ matchup:
I've been preferring a hellion+few marine opener. If he chooses to go roach, I drop a techlab onto my barracks and crank out some marauders. If he goes speed baneling/zergling (actually, this is pretty effective as the zergling can surround the hellions easily on creep - which then get completely destroyed by the baneling) then I go Thor and either add another factory for hellions or more barracks for marauder. In both cases I can easily toss up a starport and a fairly quick expansion depending on what the zerg is doing - I'm most vulnerable to baneling/zergling right before my Thor comes out, but I've found it to work well on all but the shortest maps. If I wind up not needing many marauders, I'll usually get a pair of viking for overlord hunting before any medivac as early thor tends to discourage muta play.
As always I try to make sure I can take them before hive tech because hive tech is scary scary stuff if you're mech heavy. Mech does really well against everything else. I favor it over bio because it *feels* that there are more bio counters before hive (banelings and infestors are scarier).
I've been doing similar in TvP.
While the early stalker can be a pain, hellions are very good against zealot+sentry and I can usually get a few probes. I can then pop out a quick thor or marauders to handle an early stalkers push -I rush to get thor+some marauders out quickly if they're pushing hard stalker 4-gate. Thor/hellion is actually really good against a 4-gate push once you get that thor out. Sprinkle in the right barracks unit to counter the force (marauders for stalkers, otherwise marine) and youre pretty golden.
The danger is early immortals and templar. Typically I can snipe templar with hellions, but not after they do their damage.
The best played protoss I've run into while using this strat resulted in a series of army trades where I eventually out-macroed him. The last battle was Immortal/Colossus/Stalker/Sentry/Zealot vs Thor/Marine/Marauder/Raven/Medivac/Banshee (I had stopped making hellions at this point and it was clear he wasn't going to make a templar) If he had a templar it could have been another army trade but as it was I had a medivac and 1-2 marauders with two very hurt Thor at the end to take out his expansion we were fighting over.
I'm thinking that I should research the 250mm cannons to pick off the immortals and colossus and look to fit in ghosts at some point as they're just too sexy vs Protoss to not build.
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I've noticed this, but other than my getting to 15 wins above 500 while on my way to diamond, I have since been almost perfectly 500 in my next 60 games.
while this isn't inaccurate, it is also true that if you say to yourself 'I think right when stim finishes I'll be ahead' and attack then, whether it was preplanned for that matchup or not, it's a timing attack.
so the original poster was correct as are you.
Of course it's possible to stunt skill growth with the wrong attitude but as long as you keep getting better, 50/50 is a good way to do it so you can learn from both your wins and losses.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
Guess you just gotta get more broodlords
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
Been playing mostly 2v2 though to get the chops down. I had 5 zerg partners in a row today, lost 3 won 2.
Hope he shows it 'stead of just talking about how awesome it is.
I'm assuming the game is awesome.
Although in that game I had 106 banelings at one stage and killed 4 expansions in 1 min.
literally rubbed your tip and put it back
that's so hot...
Then the spawning pool should give them an upgrade that makes them jump in the air and do an attack a specific target. Put it on a 10 minute cooldown or something. I don't care. This needs to happen.
Think about it. Not only would it help zerg with early banshees, but it would also be fucking hilarious.
PSN: Threeve703
Joe's Stream.
Maybe we were approaching this too much from a "make a strange but effective combo" perspective when that when wasn't really the intention.
I can't seem to beat zerg. It's a relatively recent issue since i got moved up to plat. I play protoss, and no matter what i do, it seems i get rolled. I've tried 2 gate robo, 1 gate stargate, even a dt rush. i've gone 1-10 in my last games.
What do other toss players do against zerg/what are good openings against zerg?
I really think the only reason I haven't gotten demoted is because of my PvP matches... lol i've only lost one in like, the past 15 games or something
Flamma inferno
Igne cutis
Definitely that guy
Play in a FFA, and you must kill your opponents in alphabetical order.
Fortunately, my name starts with a D, which is near the end of the alphabet!
"oh I had an ultra queen medivac game... but here's an incredibly lame unit comp instead"
That includes just running into them or multi-sided battles.
Really he just wasn't looking for combos, I guess.
there is something about being able to hold position micro forward towards somebody and see the volleys of acid
i guess it makes me feel like a terran
but i always get scared about air units
like, that one game in the IEM with idra where he was on the back foot for a while and suddenly pops 30 roaches and just hold positions into the guy's expo then base
it gives me a tingly feeling
If I'm going to harass as terran, I tend to favor hellions. If I spend the gas on the factory and/or reactor instead of reapers, then I have a harass unit AND a factory that can now transition me to Thor or Tank and get me closer to starport tech, instead of being stuck with a bunch of barracks w/techlabs.
In my TvZ matchup:
I've been preferring a hellion+few marine opener. If he chooses to go roach, I drop a techlab onto my barracks and crank out some marauders. If he goes speed baneling/zergling (actually, this is pretty effective as the zergling can surround the hellions easily on creep - which then get completely destroyed by the baneling) then I go Thor and either add another factory for hellions or more barracks for marauder. In both cases I can easily toss up a starport and a fairly quick expansion depending on what the zerg is doing - I'm most vulnerable to baneling/zergling right before my Thor comes out, but I've found it to work well on all but the shortest maps. If I wind up not needing many marauders, I'll usually get a pair of viking for overlord hunting before any medivac as early thor tends to discourage muta play.
As always I try to make sure I can take them before hive tech because hive tech is scary scary stuff if you're mech heavy. Mech does really well against everything else. I favor it over bio because it *feels* that there are more bio counters before hive (banelings and infestors are scarier).
I've been doing similar in TvP.
While the early stalker can be a pain, hellions are very good against zealot+sentry and I can usually get a few probes. I can then pop out a quick thor or marauders to handle an early stalkers push -I rush to get thor+some marauders out quickly if they're pushing hard stalker 4-gate. Thor/hellion is actually really good against a 4-gate push once you get that thor out. Sprinkle in the right barracks unit to counter the force (marauders for stalkers, otherwise marine) and youre pretty golden.
The danger is early immortals and templar. Typically I can snipe templar with hellions, but not after they do their damage.
The best played protoss I've run into while using this strat resulted in a series of army trades where I eventually out-macroed him. The last battle was Immortal/Colossus/Stalker/Sentry/Zealot vs Thor/Marine/Marauder/Raven/Medivac/Banshee (I had stopped making hellions at this point and it was clear he wasn't going to make a templar) If he had a templar it could have been another army trade but as it was I had a medivac and 1-2 marauders with two very hurt Thor at the end to take out his expansion we were fighting over.
I'm thinking that I should research the 250mm cannons to pick off the immortals and colossus and look to fit in ghosts at some point as they're just too sexy vs Protoss to not build.
Origin: Viycktor