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Streaming Anime is a Doomed Venture

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    IaculusIaculus Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Yeah, I just can't see an industry where the doujinshi market's so enormous being all that uptight about copyright.

    Iaculus on
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    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Man, I think I hate the anime industry now.

    Hexmage-PA on
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    So something that bugged me when I was watching FMA: B, for free, through Funimation's virtually commercial free streaming.

    What necessitated waiting a week for a show to be dubbed?

    Quid on
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    I want Furry Curry for $19.99

    You might could get one-fifth of a single episode for that much.

    Man, like 6 years ago I bought the whole series on 3 DVDs for about 20 per disc. I'm trying to remember who I bought it through. May have been J-list. I felt the price was pretty reasonable for the quality.

    Tofystedeth on
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    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    There's also the simple divergence in tastes. The "cute" thing and the focus on shonen titles grates on a lot of people who grew up with Fist of the North Star and Ninja Scroll.

    As an aside, I find this sort of humorous, considering Fist of the North Star was a Jump series :P

    That said, to get more on topic, I don't imagine we'll really see the "death" of the localization industry in America. At worst, it's going to end up paring back a great deal to pre-boom levels. However, output I imagine could be greater thanks to an increased move to the digital distribution model (streaming, iTunes, etc.).

    As for DVDs, thankfully we're starting to phase out of the "pay $30 for 3 to four episodes" model thanks to companies like FUNimation, who, while they sell their DVDs at around $50 new, sell the series in ~13 episode sets akin to DVDs for US television series. Incidentally, I think FUNi is supposed to be the most financially successful of the distributors (I forget where I read it). I suppose when you actually release things that aren't a ripoff to the consumer, you actually do well :V

    Bandai's getting better, but they run second when it comes to value for your dollar. For example, each Code Geass series (around 25 or 26 episodes) has three sets each; released by FUNimation, it'd likely just be two.

    Lanz on
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    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Iaculus wrote: »
    Yeah, I just can't see an industry where the doujinshi market's so enormous being all that uptight about copyright.

    The Manga/Anime industry and Copyright is a very peculiar beast when it comes to the doujinshi market. I forget who had a pretty good article on it a few years ago. May have been Wired, may have been one of the anime mags that's now defunct.

    I suppose it helps that a lot of artists wind up coming out of the Doujinshi scene, so the industry realizes it's a greater boon to let them do what they will, then pluck them up into their payrolls when they start creating original content.

    EDIT: Also, it's an entirely different kind of copyright violation. Doujinshi, you're creating derivative works from someone else's IP. Downloading it, you're copying an official release of the original IP and, the companies would argue, depriving them of a sale.

    Lanz on
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    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Anime, from what I have seen, has been declining in 'content quality' for ages. For every 1 good series, there's a 100 horrible series. I mean, seriously, you can only collect shit to kill shit for so long. You can only travel around the world so many times, power up so many times, collect swords so many times, gain and lose demon powers so many times.

    Sometimes I just want a decent fucking story about some normal fucking people dealing with every fucking day shit.

    ... You realize there's a genre devoted to that, right?

    But does it have a card game?

    That said, I suspect people in the US don't so much want more Prince of Tennis as they want non-shonen action titles. Imagine, an anime war drama without cute mascots, chibis, or sweat drops!

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8rg7e_cat-shit-one-trailer-idol-anime_shortfilms

    Lanz on
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    LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Putting shows on Hulu is a good idea, although I'm sure there's some strange reason why most anime companies can't do that I'm not aware of.

    For a long time, the licensing agreements for most anime series didn't include any internet download or streaming rights. This has been slowly changing, especially for the larger series that are (presumably) made with Western distribution in mind, and sometimes even the financial participation of American distributors.

    But for a lot of older series, unless a distributor has the time and cash to renegotiate a new licensing deal than includes streaming rights, they probably don't have them, and the Japanese company can't be bothered to deal with international streaming sites.

    Lawndart on
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    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Gaardean wrote: »
    Isn't the biggest problem just an incompatibility between the market strategies between Japan and western countries? The Japanese content producers basically use their purchased TV timeslots as an advertising format, then rely on heavy-priced DVDs and merchandise to recoup their losses/make a profit. While they try to justify the exorbitant DVD prices with extra episodes and other goodies, the crux of the matter is that a show usually only gets one airing, and if you've missed an episode your only recourse is to shell out the cash for the DVD to see it.

    It's a stark contrast to the American model, where the advertising hopefully covers the cost of the show from the start, and the big dream is syndication, collecting cash the more often you re-run the same episodes. DVD sales are usually just gravy, and comparatively cheap.

    Now, the Japanese producers can't allow American distributors to sell at a standard western price point, or a backflux of re-imported anime would collapse the inflated Japanese price point. Likewise, they keep a stranglehold on the broadcast of shows under a fear of "why buy the cow when you get the milk for free," and the threat of the American streaming market attracting the Japanese consumer is even more terrifying to them. Really, until one market or the other undergoes a drastic restructuring (unlikely, but with the Japanese market collapsing domestically, it's not out of the question), the sales collapse here is rather inevitable.

    This. Very much this.

    Case in point: Around 2001, Bandai brought the original Gundam TV series to the US via Cartoon Network, hoping that it'd be a hit in the way Wing was (Long story short digression: it was not). As anime was moving away from VHS releases in the US to DVD, they of course started releasing it in the US on DVD as well.

    But there was one caveat: It was dub only. Of course, fans complained about this, asking why on earth the original Japanese audio wasn't going to be present. Bandai's response? The audio was so degraded that it wasn't usable, there would never ever be a Japanese audio track for the original Gundam TV series ever again.

    Keep in mind, there had never been a DVD release of the original TV series at this point.

    Oh, until about 6 months to a year later, complete with what must apparently have been a miracle performed by the Audio Fairy, because it had the Japanese audio.

    Oh, and now we're getting a re-release of the series in the US with both Japanese and English tracks.

    Lanz on
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    Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    It's also probably the worst Gundam dub.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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    NovidNovid Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The Old Guard (On Both Sides) (Unless they have talent or have a successful business model) has got to die. Period.

    Until then there isnt going to be any changes. Both sides have lived under a ponzi scheme for years. The underlining problem is money and capital and when you dont have it no matter how good the business model is your gonna fail.

    The fan base started to lose money in 2005-6 and the rest of the dominos fell. All you see now is the fanbase protecting what they conceive as 'anime'

    Novid on
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    ChenChen Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    There's more to it than that. Simply put, the working conditions in the industry is abysmal. Unlike in America, animators work long hours for chump change. Production companies hire animators from overseas to keep costs down. At this rate, talent will just ebb to other markets, such as mobile gaming, and the quality will decline. Heck, it's already happened for years.

    I couldn't have been the only one who was shocked by the passing of Satoshi Kon and wondered what will happen to his legacy after his last work: The Dream Machine. Hopefully, new talent will rise up to the challenge, but I'm afraid there won't be anything resembling Paprika anytime soon, especially given the current state of the industry.

    Chen on
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    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Chen wrote: »
    Unlike in America, animators work long hours for chump change.

    I thought the animation in most American shows was outsourced to Asian countries?

    Hexmage-PA on
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    darksteeldarksteel Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    As far as I know, at least key frames are done by the key animators, and then the in-between frames are farmed out to in-betweeners in Korea and China. Isn't that how it's done in both Japan and America?

    darksteel on
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    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    I want Furry Curry for $19.99

    You might could get one-fifth of a single episode for that much.

    Man, like 6 years ago I bought the whole series on 3 DVDs for about 20 per disc. I'm trying to remember who I bought it through. May have been J-list. I felt the price was pretty reasonable for the quality.

    D:

    The show is six twenty two-minute episodes long and they stretched it out over three discs?!?

    I'm assuming two episodes per disc, right?

    emnmnme on
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    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    I want Furry Curry for $19.99

    You might could get one-fifth of a single episode for that much.

    Man, like 6 years ago I bought the whole series on 3 DVDs for about 20 per disc. I'm trying to remember who I bought it through. May have been J-list. I felt the price was pretty reasonable for the quality.

    D:

    The show is six twenty two-minute episodes long and they stretched it out over three discs?!?

    I'm assuming two episodes per disc, right?

    Ya see? Ya see? It's fucked up.

    Hexmage-PA on
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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited October 2010
    darksteel wrote: »
    As far as I know, at least key frames are done by the key animators, and then the in-between frames are farmed out to in-betweeners in Korea and China. Isn't that how it's done in both Japan and America?

    I don't know about Japan, but yeah, that's how US studios do it.

    Jacobkosh on
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    Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    It's also how its been done in animation since the sixties. This is not a new issue at all.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    It looks like CG is going to be coming more into the fore as well in the newer anime series.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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    OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Here's my take on at least Funimation's streaming scheme: the subs are there to maybe get some ad revenue from people who would otherwise fansub and the dubs are there to hopefully get you to buy the DVD. I remember watching a panel of theirs where they said something like 3/4ths of their DVD-buying audience buys them for the dubs, so those are worth more to them (in addition to costing more to produce, natually) and so they get limited exposure on the site.

    Another issue that I'm not sure has been touched on is the arrogance of the anime companies in regards to licensing. When the American anime boom happened, the Japanese producers realized they could get more money for their anime from America and rose the licensing costs. From what I can gather though, even after the crash the prices haven't really dropped back down. Couple that with streaming licenses and whatnot and you've got a huge quagmire of costs, fees and whatnot that western companies have to wade through to even be able to make subbed-only streams let alone dubbed DVD releases.

    Opty on
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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Chen wrote: »
    Unlike in America, animators work long hours for chump change.

    I thought the animation in most American shows was outsourced to Asian countries?

    Television shows, yes. But then you have stuff like Disney's in-house productions, which are done mostly by American animators. They are the exception rather than the rule for traditional animation in America, though.

    Centipede Damascus on
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    JintorJintor Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I really think TTGL could have worked as a series being pushed on normal TV or something if it had been marketed in the right way...

    Jintor on
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    DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I think a big problem comes from subs and how many anime fans are introduced to new series. Then since anime fans have such a strong community everyone kind of starts doing a word of mouth sort of deal. So before you know it with the internet you have people finding out about new anime way before american publications could start going on about it. Then you have this scenario.


    Hey Show X just aired in Japan.

    Hey someone released a fansub of the same episode a few days later.

    Hey it's going to be months before an american release :(

    Will the average anime fan wait for licensing or just watch the show with a few clicks of a button?

    DasUberEdward on
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    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I think a big problem comes from subs and how many anime fans are introduced to new series. Then since anime fans have such a strong community everyone kind of starts doing a word of mouth sort of deal. So before you know it with the internet you have people finding out about new anime way before american publications could start going on about it. Then you have this scenario.


    Hey Show X just aired in Japan.

    Hey someone released a fansub of the same episode a few days later.

    Hey it's going to be months before an american release :(

    Will the average anime fan wait for licensing or just watch the show with a few clicks of a button?

    Another Gundam Example!

    Fan Favorite Turn A Gundam: Aired in 1999 in Japan; In America, Bandai USA only announced back in July that they licensed it and are planning to release it at some indeterminate point in the future. Although Bandai's statement for all Gundam series is "All the series are effectively licensed, and we will eventually release them in the US."

    This statement is then followed by months of silence about anything that is not the latest series airing or just aired in Japan.

    Lanz on
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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Basically, the situation is this:

    The industry needs to provide a product superior to fansubs, otherwise they will never get any traction.

    So far they have not. The window for streaming a sub is basically 24 hours after the episode airs. If you can't hit that, everyone will have seen the fansub by the time you put it out, and no one will care.

    HamHamJ on
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Basically, the situation is this:

    The industry needs to provide a product superior to fansubs, otherwise they will never get any traction.

    So far they have not. The window for streaming a sub is basically 24 hours after the episode airs. If you can't hit that, everyone will have seen the fansub by the time you put it out, and no one will care.

    Being out within 24 hours after an episode airs =! superior product. I can't believe you're suggesting that the state of fansubs now, especially speedsubs, are superior to officially produced subtitles.

    Fansubs have declined in quality for... well, the decline's pretty much been in line with how readily available material to sub was. Now everyone treats it as a competition to get the fastest release out or have the fanciest subtitle graphics, rather than taking the time to do a translation that is nigh-indistinguishable from a professional job, because it was hard to fix errors once you've mastered the VHS.

    DarkPrimus on
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    AroducAroduc regular
    edited October 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Basically, the situation is this:

    The industry needs to provide a product superior to fansubs, otherwise they will never get any traction.

    So far they have not. The window for streaming a sub is basically 24 hours after the episode airs. If you can't hit that, everyone will have seen the fansub by the time you put it out, and no one will care.

    Issue is that they have, and it's clearly not succeeding.


    Something else I just thought of that has resulted from the move to streaming is that almost everything gets licensed and picked up, because if you don't, then somebody else is going to jump on it. Some of this shit is totally unfathomable. Like shows about magical cellphone strap fairies that help girls fulfill their dreams of baking cakes. This could make sense if everything was a package deal (ie, you gotta sub everything handled by Kadokawa, good and bad), but it's not. And the big players (Sunrise in particular) are happy to ignore them entirely since they don't need the little bits of extra profit no and know their shit's going to sell.

    Aroduc on
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    SlicerSlicer Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Basically, the situation is this:

    The industry needs to provide a product superior to fansubs, otherwise they will never get any traction.

    So far they have not. The window for streaming a sub is basically 24 hours after the episode airs. If you can't hit that, everyone will have seen the fansub by the time you put it out, and no one will care.

    Being out within 24 hours after an episode airs =! superior product. I can't believe you're suggesting that the state of fansubs now, especially speedsubs, are superior to officially produced subtitles.

    Fansubs have declined in quality for... well, the decline's pretty much been in line with how readily available material to sub was. Now everyone treats it as a competition to get the fastest release out or have the fanciest subtitle graphics, rather than taking the time to do a translation that is nigh-indistinguishable from a professional job, because it was hard to fix errors once you've mastered the VHS.

    I agree with most of this (though at least more and more fansubs are getting rid of some of the silly things nowdays) though I think the issue here is the perceived quality as opposed to a comparison of objective quality.

    I think I'll let a tweet from MXMedia, the company that provides subtitles for Crunchyroll's streams, speak for itself:
    Got a 1 page rant on how our company's subtitles are the devil that included a section praising a pirate group that... uses our subtitles.

    Most of these pirate groups that use their subtitles just take their script and maybe add fancy karaoke effects and that's that.


    Edit: @Aroduc yeah, there's a lot of unmarketable stuff that gets picked up and then forgotten. I mean for example as happy as I am that somebody cared about the new Cobra series, whoever thought that licensing the sequel to a tv series from the 80s that is only available in English via fansubs should be fired.

    Slicer on
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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Basically, the situation is this:

    The industry needs to provide a product superior to fansubs, otherwise they will never get any traction.

    So far they have not. The window for streaming a sub is basically 24 hours after the episode airs. If you can't hit that, everyone will have seen the fansub by the time you put it out, and no one will care.

    Being out within 24 hours after an episode airs =! superior product. I can't believe you're suggesting that the state of fansubs now, especially speedsubs, are superior to officially produced subtitles.

    Of course it's superior. TV has always been a medium that depends on the "Oh man did you see this weeks episode!" buzz. There is usually at least one good fansub out within 24 hours of a show airing. Even if it's not perfect, it's better than waiting.

    Aroduc wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Basically, the situation is this:

    The industry needs to provide a product superior to fansubs, otherwise they will never get any traction.

    So far they have not. The window for streaming a sub is basically 24 hours after the episode airs. If you can't hit that, everyone will have seen the fansub by the time you put it out, and no one will care.

    Issue is that they have, and it's clearly not succeeding.

    Not consistently or competently enough. For example, FMA: Brotherhood. Once the stream started lagging a week behind the Japanese release (and thus the fansubs), it might as well have not existed.

    HamHamJ on
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    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Aroduc wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Basically, the situation is this:

    The industry needs to provide a product superior to fansubs, otherwise they will never get any traction.

    So far they have not. The window for streaming a sub is basically 24 hours after the episode airs. If you can't hit that, everyone will have seen the fansub by the time you put it out, and no one will care.

    Issue is that they have, and it's clearly not succeeding.


    Something else I just thought of that has resulted from the move to streaming is that almost everything gets licensed and picked up, because if you don't, then somebody else is going to jump on it. Some of this shit is totally unfathomable. Like shows about magical cellphone strap fairies that help girls fulfill their dreams of baking cakes. This could make sense if everything was a package deal (ie, you gotta sub everything handled by Kadokawa, good and bad), but it's not. And the big players (Sunrise in particular) are happy to ignore them entirely since they don't need the little bits of extra profit no and know their shit's going to sell.

    Actually aren't quite a few deals these days package deals?

    I heard that was the theory as to why FUNi licensed that one vampire anime, because the studio made them take it as part of a deal for another series

    Lanz on
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    AroducAroduc regular
    edited October 2010
    Lanz wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Basically, the situation is this:

    The industry needs to provide a product superior to fansubs, otherwise they will never get any traction.

    So far they have not. The window for streaming a sub is basically 24 hours after the episode airs. If you can't hit that, everyone will have seen the fansub by the time you put it out, and no one will care.

    Issue is that they have, and it's clearly not succeeding.


    Something else I just thought of that has resulted from the move to streaming is that almost everything gets licensed and picked up, because if you don't, then somebody else is going to jump on it. Some of this shit is totally unfathomable. Like shows about magical cellphone strap fairies that help girls fulfill their dreams of baking cakes. This could make sense if everything was a package deal (ie, you gotta sub everything handled by Kadokawa, good and bad), but it's not. And the big players (Sunrise in particular) are happy to ignore them entirely since they don't need the little bits of extra profit no and know their shit's going to sell.

    Actually aren't quite a few deals these days package deals?

    I heard that was the theory as to why FUNi licensed that one vampire anime, because the studio made them take it as part of a deal for another series

    There are some, but not many, and a lot less recently since licensing gets announed at the start of seasons, not at cons and crap like the olden days. The only recent thing that comes to mind was Aniplex and ANN with OreImo and Togainu, but since ANN proceeded to fuck up the streaming and leak the second episode of the former before the Japanese broadcast, everything they had related to those shows has vanished off their site.

    Although I just now noticed that in their godawful trolltastic 'preview' of the new season (using pirated subs! And seriously, for some it's obvious that they didn't even watch a single minute of the episode), every single one of them somehow completely overlooked the two shows that ANN had invested money in. Funny how that works.

    Aroduc on
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Basically, the situation is this:

    The industry needs to provide a product superior to fansubs, otherwise they will never get any traction.

    So far they have not. The window for streaming a sub is basically 24 hours after the episode airs. If you can't hit that, everyone will have seen the fansub by the time you put it out, and no one will care.

    Being out within 24 hours after an episode airs =! superior product. I can't believe you're suggesting that the state of fansubs now, especially speedsubs, are superior to officially produced subtitles.

    Of course it's superior. TV has always been a medium that depends on the "Oh man did you see this weeks episode!" buzz. There is usually at least one good fansub out within 24 hours of a show airing. Even if it's not perfect, it's better than waiting.

    So you don't care about the accuracy of the subtitles, just as long as you can see the show soon after it airs. Why not just watch it raw, then?

    DarkPrimus on
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    DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Basically, the situation is this:

    The industry needs to provide a product superior to fansubs, otherwise they will never get any traction.

    So far they have not. The window for streaming a sub is basically 24 hours after the episode airs. If you can't hit that, everyone will have seen the fansub by the time you put it out, and no one will care.

    Being out within 24 hours after an episode airs =! superior product. I can't believe you're suggesting that the state of fansubs now, especially speedsubs, are superior to officially produced subtitles.

    Of course it's superior. TV has always been a medium that depends on the "Oh man did you see this weeks episode!" buzz. There is usually at least one good fansub out within 24 hours of a show airing. Even if it's not perfect, it's better than waiting.

    So you don't care about the accuracy of the subtitles, just as long as you can see the show soon after it airs. Why not just watch it raw, then?

    That's a stupid equivocation.

    Seriously it doesn't even compute on the most basic level. That's like saying if you can't speak a language fluently why bother visiting a country where it is the primary language.

    DasUberEdward on
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    DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Basically, the situation is this:

    The industry needs to provide a product superior to fansubs, otherwise they will never get any traction.

    So far they have not. The window for streaming a sub is basically 24 hours after the episode airs. If you can't hit that, everyone will have seen the fansub by the time you put it out, and no one will care.

    Honestly what can be done to provide something better than fan subs? I feel bad for the anime industry and I don't know much about the current scene so i'm asking in earnest here.

    DasUberEdward on
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Basically, the situation is this:

    The industry needs to provide a product superior to fansubs, otherwise they will never get any traction.

    So far they have not. The window for streaming a sub is basically 24 hours after the episode airs. If you can't hit that, everyone will have seen the fansub by the time you put it out, and no one will care.

    Being out within 24 hours after an episode airs =! superior product. I can't believe you're suggesting that the state of fansubs now, especially speedsubs, are superior to officially produced subtitles.

    Of course it's superior. TV has always been a medium that depends on the "Oh man did you see this weeks episode!" buzz. There is usually at least one good fansub out within 24 hours of a show airing. Even if it's not perfect, it's better than waiting.

    So you don't care about the accuracy of the subtitles, just as long as you can see the show soon after it airs. Why not just watch it raw, then?

    That's a stupid equivocation.

    Well then it fits right in with his stupid logic that quick = good even if quick = translations that aren't even remotely close to what is actually being said. If you're going to watch a show and not be able to understand the dialogue anyway, why even bother with waiting longer than you have to?

    DarkPrimus on
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Basically, the situation is this:

    The industry needs to provide a product superior to fansubs, otherwise they will never get any traction.

    So far they have not. The window for streaming a sub is basically 24 hours after the episode airs. If you can't hit that, everyone will have seen the fansub by the time you put it out, and no one will care.

    Honestly what can be done to provide something better than fan subs? I feel bad for the anime industry and I don't know much about the current scene so i'm asking in earnest here.

    Streaming anime, even within a day of the original broadcast, is not the answer for the American distributors, because streaming anime will not bring in the revenue they need to stay afloat. The anime industry, here and in Japan, are operating on models based on a long-burst bubble and they can't stay afloat unless... well... Japan keeps demanding high licensing fees for US distribution but that just means that US distributors need to charge higher prices which means consumers buy fewer copies... but in order to be able to charge more reasonable prices, US distributors need to be able to have lower costs, which requires the Japanese companies to ask more realistic prices, which means they have to get revenue another way... There's a lot of circles going on and I'm not sure how to get them broken.

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    DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Basically, the situation is this:

    The industry needs to provide a product superior to fansubs, otherwise they will never get any traction.

    So far they have not. The window for streaming a sub is basically 24 hours after the episode airs. If you can't hit that, everyone will have seen the fansub by the time you put it out, and no one will care.

    Being out within 24 hours after an episode airs =! superior product. I can't believe you're suggesting that the state of fansubs now, especially speedsubs, are superior to officially produced subtitles.

    Of course it's superior. TV has always been a medium that depends on the "Oh man did you see this weeks episode!" buzz. There is usually at least one good fansub out within 24 hours of a show airing. Even if it's not perfect, it's better than waiting.

    So you don't care about the accuracy of the subtitles, just as long as you can see the show soon after it airs. Why not just watch it raw, then?

    That's a stupid equivocation.

    Well then it fits right in with his stupid logic that quick = good even if quick = translations that aren't even remotely close to what is actually being said. If you're going to watch a show and not be able to understand the dialogue anyway, why even bother with waiting longer than you have to?

    Can you give some examples of translations that have been so far off as to completely ruin a show?

    http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/national/news/20101012-OYT1T00602.htm?from=main3

    that's a random article from a japanese newspaper. Run that through a translator and you get an idea of what happened instantly. If it pictures and video the message would be even more clear. Is something lost in translation? Yes.

    But I would say if I really was interested in that story the quick google translate option beats having the paper sent to a translation company who then speaks to the editors who then provides subtitles for all of the words and (again things will still be lost in translation) and then has it shipped to me.

    It's a spectrum. The quicker you are the less likely the subs are to be an amazing translation and the inverse applies but that does not mean a quick translation = garbage and a lengthy translation = gold.

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    MyDcmbrMyDcmbr PEWPEWPEW!!! America's WangRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    It looks like it really is all about waiting.

    I was just browsing around on Amazon.com and found 4 complete series of Anime that I am actually interested in and the total ended up at $199.

    2- 50 ep series
    2- 26 ep series
    2- OVAs

    Overall, not too shabby really considering it ends up being over 63 hours of anime. I was at Best Buy today and that same total (not counting tax) would get me the full set of Soul Eater..... and that's it. :shock:

    MyDcmbr on
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    DUE, that's not a good equivocation. Fansubs work off spoken language, not written language.

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    DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    DUE, that's not a good equivocation. Fansubs work off spoken language, not written language.

    Since we're talking about japanese here the phonetics of the language don't leave a ton of room for error if there's a cursory understanding. The point i'm getting at is that the idea of a group of people with a decent knowledge of the language being unable to translate 25-30 minutes of language in a day is just absurd.

    DasUberEdward on
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