It's because they spent their entire FMV budget on the opening
it's this. Once you're seeing the victory screen, you obviously already bought the game, right? So, no need to bother.
I hope not all game developers think that way. Imagine seeing the intro of a game and the whole campaign turning out to be a useless game! We wouldn't want that now would we?:?
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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but has anyone noticed that starting locations on Earth maps seem less than random?
Every time I start a game with the Earth map I end up in the worst starting position. As Ghandi I ended up in northern Siberia, as Germany I was in Alaska, as the Iroquois I was in Mongolia with another Civ in China, and now as the Aztec I'm in the Canadian Yukon.
Is my luck just that bad?
I've also never seen anyone start off in Australia. Is that even possible?
Is there a way to start Civs in their historic starting areas on Earth? For some reason, the base Civs always seem to neglect this option and I have to go download a user-created map.
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Rigorous Scholarship
I would like to pause for a moment, to talk about my penis.
My penis is like a toddler. A toddler—who is a perfectly normal size for his age—on a long road trip to what he thinks is Disney World. My penis is excited because he hasn’t been to Disney World in a long, long time, but remembers a time when he used to go every day. So now the penis toddler is constantly fidgeting, whining “Are we there yet? Are we there yet? How about now? Now? How about... now?”
And Disney World is nowhere in sight.
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but has anyone noticed that starting locations on Earth maps seem less than random?
Every time I start a game with the Earth map I end up in the worst starting position. As Ghandi I ended up in northern Siberia, as Germany I was in Alaska, as the Iroquois I was in Mongolia with another Civ in China, and now as the Aztec I'm in the Canadian Yukon.
Is my luck just that bad?
I've also never seen anyone start off in Australia. Is that even possible?
Is there a way to start Civs in their historic starting areas on Earth? For some reason, the base Civs always seem to neglect this option and I have to go download a user-created map.
i've only seen city states in australia. and the best starting place is clearly in Iraq/Iran where the Tigris river meets the arabian sea building a city there gives you like 2/3 rivers to build along, you don't get more than a few ocean tiles you so can still build a fleet and not waste all your tiles on ocean tiles. and the area always seems to be loaded with luxuries.
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mrt144King of the NumbernamesRegistered Userregular
It's a philosophical statement by Firaxis on how mankind's quest for power and superiority over others is ultimately futile and unfulfilling. Maybe.
This is almost a Dallas level of copout.
I think its them burning their budget on everything else. If you need to save time or costs, where do you do it? The intro? Areas where the demo would bring you to? No. Ending videos. Only a portion of players will ever get that far.
Also, end game stuff.
It doesn't show your leader waking up in bed, when you finally send your ship off to space. Too bad, it would have been more exciting.
The plan is also to make major revisions to the diplomacy system, and while I can't talk about the details yet, I think you all will find them an improvement. That will be added with an update later this year. Also included will be a number of AI upgrades.
Is it possible for a Great Engineer to hurry production of the Utopia Project. I'm not willing to wait this long for my cultural victory.
Also the Egyptians in my game are spamming Infantry for some reason. How effective are Bombers/Helicopters at killing them? And how effective are AA at killing bombers/helicopters.
This game has so many bugs you're basically buying your own pet cockroach, but some of the design changes from 4->5 are really, really great.
Its really not that bad. I personally know a bunch of people who bought the game (probably 10 or so people at work) and none of them have been struck by the bugginess that people have talked about.
I had few small bugs happen to me in one game and it hasn't repeated since.
I've played this game for about 60 hours, and have noticed dozens and dozens of bugs. In that time, I've had about 10 crashes, had the game refuse to boot on some machines, and encountered bugs ranging from minor glitches to complete show-stoppers. There are display glitches, from wildly inaccurate yield icons, sometimes refusing to render when they should, or rendering when they shouldn't, aircraft counts that remain onscreen when the aircraft are long gone, a mysterious ghost ship that is constantly blocking the top-right of the camera at all times, to units turning into ships on dry land and sailing through mountains. Production bonuses get calculated inaccurately, or display as inconsistent numbers that change when the windows are re-opened, production turn counts are sometimes completely lying to you, and worker AI will glitch out and occasionally refuse to complete projects on its own. The "next turn" button's text is often completely inaccurate, when what it really means is "a unit needs orders," and sometimes it locks up and fails to work entirely, requiring that a save be totally abandoned. Some of the wonders, units, and policies are broken, and do not work the way they claim to. Civ AI is sometimes completely psychotic, deciding that it hates you for "units near its borders" when the closest unit is 20 turns away, or switching from friendly to hostile after you do nothing but bring them back from death and gift them free cities and resources.
There are many more bugs than that, but the point is, this game is incredibly buggy. Calling the programming amateurish would be an insult to the many competent nonprofessional developers out there. Most indie games with a $0 QA budget are less buggy than this. The only way a person won't encounter bugs in Civ 5 is through a combination of luck and a refusal to pay close attention to the numbers it's showing you.
The only bug you complain about that I've seen is the "next turn" button going to another unit in the same turn. Are you sure your computer isn't fucking things up?
And that's not a bug, that's the somewhat odd but also kind of nice feature where queued movement goes only after you try to end your turn. And then if something finishes the queued movement while it still has moves, you have to give it new orders.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but has anyone noticed that starting locations on Earth maps seem less than random?
Every time I start a game with the Earth map I end up in the worst starting position. As Ghandi I ended up in northern Siberia, as Germany I was in Alaska, as the Iroquois I was in Mongolia with another Civ in China, and now as the Aztec I'm in the Canadian Yukon.
Is my luck just that bad?
I've also never seen anyone start off in Australia. Is that even possible?
Is there a way to start Civs in their historic starting areas on Earth? For some reason, the base Civs always seem to neglect this option and I have to go download a user-created map.
i've only seen city states in australia. and the best starting place is clearly in Iraq/Iran where the Tigris river meets the arabian sea building a city there gives you like 2/3 rivers to build along, you don't get more than a few ocean tiles you so can still build a fleet and not waste all your tiles on ocean tiles. and the area always seems to be loaded with luxuries.
I'd just be happy to start somewhere not on the Arctic Shelf. By the 1000's I've got 3-4 unemployed citizens because polar tiles can't be worked so they go to city improvements.
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Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
You guys have been asking for an update about what we're working on to improve the game, and today I am happy to give it to you.
This is the list of updates to the game that the developers have been working on the past couple weeks. This isn't necessarily the complete patch notes for the next patch, but it's what I have so far.
Keep in mind that these are just the first batch of changes that will go in to the first major patch. We're planning more improvements (such as the much-asked-for Hotseat and Pitboss) that will be coming in a later patch.
UI
* Fix for production prompt that sometimes appears with newly created puppet states that could stop the player from being able to end the turn.
* Aircraft banner corrections – now when you rebase an aircraft, the number will move with it.
* Resource icons now come up with Ctrl-R again, instead of sharing the same button with Build Roads.
* Selecting a great general will no longer cause yield icons to appear. * Added option to disable auto-unit cycling. * Fix for full-screen game when running duel monitors. Previously, the curser could scroll off the “open” side, and not be able to scroll the map in that direction.
* Misc additional fixes to mouse controls, and other interface issues.
* Rounded out financial information in the Economic Overview screen. Details now provided on the amount of gold provided by each city, the cost of buildings in each city, etc. * Auto-populate save menu with save file name
* Allow selection of other cities by hex from within the city screen
* Added detailed trade route info to Economic Overview screen
MODDING
* Category list now displays correctly
GAMEPLAY
* Workers - Added option to force workers to ignore manually made improvements (so they don’t change what you decide was best for a plot).
* Workers - Fixed bug where number of turns to complete were incorrect in build action button tool-tip. * Economy - Fixed bug where players could disband a single unit, and not see the economic return until disbanding 1 more.
* Economy – Increased city wealth setting to 25%
* Economy – Multiple fixes to the way trade-routes are tabulated and recognized. * Economy - Can now sell Buildings in a city (to help lower maintenance for obsolete buildings later in the game).
* Trade – Found and corrected a Trade problem that could cause your Resource inventory to multiply.
* City States - Fixed a bug where you could not gift aircraft to city states.
* Military - Medic promotion now only provides healing bonus for adjacent units.
* Military – Fix for Minuteman movement.
* Military – Correct promotions for “archer-like” units (horse archers, chariots).
* Military - Embarked units will no longer slow enemy land units
* Military - Improved unit cycling logic. Camera will jump around much less.
* Balance - Engineers +1 hammer
AI
* Military – Better handling of unit need (navy vs land, etc.) .
* Military - AI will tend to build ships to deal with blockaded cities more often
* Military – Corrected an issue hampering movement of AI armies, especially when in close proximity to enemy forces
* Diplomacy – AI will be more reluctant to offer or accept open border agreements with more powerful opponents.
* Diplomacy – Fix for never ending deals (peace, research agreements, etc).
* City – City specialization and city focus improvements.
* City - Cities that are Avoiding Growth will not grow while that option is selected
* Workers – Priority of trading posts reduced, and rebalanced priorities on other improvements
* Workers – Improved the path-finding mechanic when building route-to roads improved, including a large performance increase when evaluating road-pathing.
MULTIPLAYER
* Exploit – Fix for gifting unit exploit
* Chat – Color-coding, sound alerts, etc., added for in-game chat system, including a larger window.
* Deals – Additional deal validation put in place to verify deals before they are committed
MISC
* Research treaties that end because you declare war will no longer grant the free tech
* Save/Load – Fix for corrupted saves being experienced by some players in late-game.
* Map - Huge map crash-during-load fix that were reported on some specific systems.
* Map – Terrain caching fix that could cause problems for certain video cards (the “glowing red orbs” seen on the map are an indicator of this).
* Map – Fix for the low res terrain that appears the first time the game is run (terrain tiles would not load in anything but low-res the first time you play on some computer configurations)
* Strategic View – Crash fix for units rendering in background.
* Strategic View – Fix for selecting units either standing on a city plot, or garrisoned in the city plot.
* Eyefinity – Better handling of leader scenes when using Eyefinity displays.
* Tutorials – Many tutorial tweaks and adjustments.
* Multiple crash fixes.
When the patch is actually released (no ETA right now; I'm working on that!) I'll unstick and close this thread.
The funniest thing is how defensive hes being about it.
Its like he doesn't get that not controlling what your city makes is the penalty associated with not taking as large a happiness hit when you annex.
Because puppets building military buildings they'll never use is obviously the best way to balance that?
They'd rather build a forge than a workshop for Christ's sake.
Did you read the thread? Hes saying not "They should reassess the order in which puppets naturally create buildings". Hes going "REMOVE PUPPET STATES ENTIRELY ARGLEBARGLE".
Hes also saying that 'strategy' he used wasn't cheese.
Well, if you read everything he says, his point is "the fact that it's possible to game around this system proves that something better could have been used".
I don't know that he's right, because gaming around the puppet system in the fashion he did is incredibly counter-intuitive, but it's definitely an argument that makes you think. There's honestly a lot of points in that thread that are at least worth considering.
I know in my most domination-heavy games I've certainly tried to game the puppet system somewhat, by building trading posts on every workable tile around every puppet to cripple their growth and production and maximize their gold output. No matter what you do to manage puppets, it ends up feeling a bit gamey.
This game has so many bugs you're basically buying your own pet cockroach, but some of the design changes from 4->5 are really, really great.
Its really not that bad. I personally know a bunch of people who bought the game (probably 10 or so people at work) and none of them have been struck by the bugginess that people have talked about.
I had few small bugs happen to me in one game and it hasn't repeated since.
I've played this game for about 60 hours, and have noticed dozens and dozens of bugs. In that time, I've had about 10 crashes, had the game refuse to boot on some machines, and encountered bugs ranging from minor glitches to complete show-stoppers. There are display glitches, from wildly inaccurate yield icons, sometimes refusing to render when they should, or rendering when they shouldn't, aircraft counts that remain onscreen when the aircraft are long gone, a mysterious ghost ship that is constantly blocking the top-right of the camera at all times, to units turning into ships on dry land and sailing through mountains. Production bonuses get calculated inaccurately, or display as inconsistent numbers that change when the windows are re-opened, production turn counts are sometimes completely lying to you, and worker AI will glitch out and occasionally refuse to complete projects on its own. The "next turn" button's text is often completely inaccurate, when what it really means is "a unit needs orders," and sometimes it locks up and fails to work entirely, requiring that a save be totally abandoned. Some of the wonders, units, and policies are broken, and do not work the way they claim to. Civ AI is sometimes completely psychotic, deciding that it hates you for "units near its borders" when the closest unit is 20 turns away, or switching from friendly to hostile after you do nothing but bring them back from death and gift them free cities and resources.
There are many more bugs than that, but the point is, this game is incredibly buggy. Calling the programming amateurish would be an insult to the many competent nonprofessional developers out there. Most indie games with a $0 QA budget are less buggy than this. The only way a person won't encounter bugs in Civ 5 is through a combination of luck and a refusal to pay close attention to the numbers it's showing you.
The only bug you complain about that I've seen is the "next turn" button going to another unit in the same turn. Are you sure your computer isn't fucking things up?
Yes, that is not how computers work. And hey, look at that, several of the bugs I mentioned are specifically on that fix list. Looking forward to that.
The funniest thing is how defensive hes being about it.
Its like he doesn't get that not controlling what your city makes is the penalty associated with not taking as large a happiness hit when you annex.
Because puppets building military buildings they'll never use is obviously the best way to balance that?
They'd rather build a forge than a workshop for Christ's sake.
Did you read the thread? Hes saying not "They should reassess the order in which puppets naturally create buildings". Hes going "REMOVE PUPPET STATES ENTIRELY ARGLEBARGLE".
Hes also saying that 'strategy' he used wasn't cheese.
Actually he's saying that the puppet system should be removed because it goes against one of the core concepts of Civ which is that you control your empire and on top of that certain aspects of puppet cities are broken such as contributing culture and not increasing the cost of social policies. It's stupid that if you're going for a cultural victory you need to ask for every tech you research "do I want puppet cities building this improvement" since having options shouldn't be a downside and instead puppet cities just shouldn't build useless buildings.
It's because they spent their entire FMV budget on the opening
I guess they ran out of money halfway too, because I'm never able to see the entire opening FMV, it always cuts out to the opening screen halfway in, even when I take my hands completely off the keyboard/mouse after starting the game.
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darunia106J-bob in gamesDeath MountainRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
Wait, buildings can go obsolete?
I thought the colossus was the only one that could.
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KlatuAussie Aussie AussieOi Oi OiRegistered Userregular
I'm seriously playing with the "Balance" modpack that I and several others linked to previously for the first time as Napoleon on a Large Earth map, Standard speed, King difficulty. It's a hell of a game. I started in real-life India and by turn 150 or so had discovered seven other civilizations throughout Europe, North Africa and Asia. Nobunaga was the closest to me, in the Fertile Crescent, and he started talkin' that shit, so I decided to take him out early rather than face Bushido-fueled Samurai a hundred turns later.
About ten turns after conquering Japan, five of the six other civs simultaneously declared war on me just as I had finished researching Gunpowder. My army of Musketeers is beset on all fronts, and the AI's actually putting up a decent fight, but the master plan I put into action a hundred turns before they even decided to attack me is paying off--I've got gunpowder and they don't.
I love it when a game of Civ comes together. Can't wait till patches, mods and expansions really start rolling out and Civ 5 becomes fully realized--even flawed, it's already the funnest, and it can only get better.
On puppet states: I get the point he's making, and I daresay the vassal system is vastly superior for handling the conquer-but-not-control issue. Puppets, at least, should not impose a random penalty via the buildings they build and focuses they have. Having many puppets effectively nails your happiness to zero.
I doubt V will remove puppets; I can see Firaxis amending how they work, though.
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KlatuAussie Aussie AussieOi Oi OiRegistered Userregular
I thought the colossus was the only one that could.
I'm guessing that's meant more in the sense of "you don't want it anymore" as opposed to "it doesn't work anymore".
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Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
edited October 2010
Does anyone else have an issue with the list of installed mods not showing properly? I can only scroll down about halfway through my list of mods. I can switch the list from descending to ascending to see the other half, but a few more mods and I'm going to have enough that there will always be some that don't fit on the screen. So I won't be able to enable them.
One question. Do tanks and shit still get killed by bowmen? Only thing that made me hate these games. Out teched everyone, and my tanks are getting killed by archers and calvary.
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it's this. Once you're seeing the victory screen, you obviously already bought the game, right? So, no need to bother.
I hope not all game developers think that way. Imagine seeing the intro of a game and the whole campaign turning out to be a useless game! We wouldn't want that now would we?:?
And follow me on twitter.com/vgntertainment
Rigorous Scholarship
And Disney World is nowhere in sight.
i've only seen city states in australia. and the best starting place is clearly in Iraq/Iran where the Tigris river meets the arabian sea building a city there gives you like 2/3 rivers to build along, you don't get more than a few ocean tiles you so can still build a fleet and not waste all your tiles on ocean tiles. and the area always seems to be loaded with luxuries.
This is almost a Dallas level of copout.
I think its them burning their budget on everything else. If you need to save time or costs, where do you do it? The intro? Areas where the demo would bring you to? No. Ending videos. Only a portion of players will ever get that far.
Also, end game stuff.
It doesn't show your leader waking up in bed, when you finally send your ship off to space. Too bad, it would have been more exciting.
Look back about 30 posts.
Also the Egyptians in my game are spamming Infantry for some reason. How effective are Bombers/Helicopters at killing them? And how effective are AA at killing bombers/helicopters.
Steam: CavilatRest
I'd just be happy to start somewhere not on the Arctic Shelf. By the 1000's I've got 3-4 unemployed citizens because polar tiles can't be worked so they go to city improvements.
Nope, it cannot be hurried.
Orange'd some highlights. Selling buildings?! O_o
Also, in cheesy strategies: preventing puppet states from building Barracks and other dubiously useful buildings by simply not researching Bronze Working until much later. You don't need Iron for horsies, after all...
I am really quite saddened by the loss of wonder videos as well. They used to feel cool and special and now they feel so hollow and empty.
Look upon my works, ye mighty and despair and all that.
The funniest thing is how defensive hes being about it.
Its like he doesn't get that not controlling what your city makes is the penalty associated with not taking as large a happiness hit when you annex.
Selling buildings, dual-monitor fix, auto-unit cycling, selecting cities from the city screen.
Of course, if you don't get it then, you may get it in a research agreement, which would pretty well suck.
Because puppets building military buildings they'll never use is obviously the best way to balance that?
They'd rather build a forge than a workshop for Christ's sake.
Did you read the thread? Hes saying not "They should reassess the order in which puppets naturally create buildings". Hes going "REMOVE PUPPET STATES ENTIRELY ARGLEBARGLE".
Hes also saying that 'strategy' he used wasn't cheese.
I don't know that he's right, because gaming around the puppet system in the fashion he did is incredibly counter-intuitive, but it's definitely an argument that makes you think. There's honestly a lot of points in that thread that are at least worth considering.
I know in my most domination-heavy games I've certainly tried to game the puppet system somewhat, by building trading posts on every workable tile around every puppet to cripple their growth and production and maximize their gold output. No matter what you do to manage puppets, it ends up feeling a bit gamey.
Yes, that is not how computers work. And hey, look at that, several of the bugs I mentioned are specifically on that fix list. Looking forward to that.
Actually he's saying that the puppet system should be removed because it goes against one of the core concepts of Civ which is that you control your empire and on top of that certain aspects of puppet cities are broken such as contributing culture and not increasing the cost of social policies. It's stupid that if you're going for a cultural victory you need to ask for every tech you research "do I want puppet cities building this improvement" since having options shouldn't be a downside and instead puppet cities just shouldn't build useless buildings.
I guess they ran out of money halfway too, because I'm never able to see the entire opening FMV, it always cuts out to the opening screen halfway in, even when I take my hands completely off the keyboard/mouse after starting the game.
I thought the colossus was the only one that could.
Stables is the only building I can think of off the top of my head. Why pay for making horses better when you're making tanks..
edit: also handy for if you wanted to change the focus of a town away from culture to science or whatever.
About ten turns after conquering Japan, five of the six other civs simultaneously declared war on me just as I had finished researching Gunpowder. My army of Musketeers is beset on all fronts, and the AI's actually putting up a decent fight, but the master plan I put into action a hundred turns before they even decided to attack me is paying off--I've got gunpowder and they don't.
I love it when a game of Civ comes together.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=391069
Old PA forum lookalike style for the new forums | My ko-fi donation thing.
Very Harry Potter, innit.
On puppet states: I get the point he's making, and I daresay the vassal system is vastly superior for handling the conquer-but-not-control issue. Puppets, at least, should not impose a random penalty via the buildings they build and focuses they have. Having many puppets effectively nails your happiness to zero.
I doubt V will remove puppets; I can see Firaxis amending how they work, though.
Holy shit, nice find Suriko.
I'm guessing that's meant more in the sense of "you don't want it anymore" as opposed to "it doesn't work anymore".
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