How do I find this guy to sue him.

Jeedan

I bought something off gumtree, initally I was going to go round and get it from him directly but as he lives too far away I asked him to post it, he agreed. Weeks later the item is listed on the postal tracking site as still undelivered, I asked him to sort it out/refund me. He agreed and then proceeded to do neither.

Paying first was stupid I know, but as I have his name, address and UK bank account details I would have assumed I had enough info to find him should anything go wrong, well:


Filing a claims letter it gets returned with a stamp from the post office listing it as undeliverable as the occupant is no longer at the address.

Police wont help as they claim its a civil matter.

Bank wont help as they wont disclose information.

Assuming he hasnt skipped off to the other side of the planet, how do I find him?

Esh

Jeedan wrote: »

I bought something off gumtree, initally I was going to go round and get it from him directly but as he lives too far away I asked him to post it, he agreed. Weeks later the item is listed on the postal tracking site as still undelivered, I asked him to sort it out/refund me. He agreed and then proceeded to do neither.

Paying first was stupid I know, but as I have his name, address and UK bank account details I would have assumed I had enough info to find him should anything go wrong, well:


Filing a claims letter it gets returned with a stamp from the post office listing it as undeliverable as the occupant is no longer at the address.

Police wont help as they claim its a civil matter.

Bank wont help as they wont disclose information.

Assuming he hasnt skipped off to the other side of the planet, how do I find him?

How much was the item?

bowen

The best you can probably do is go to whatever is the equivalent to small claims court in the UK.

They should still have to issue a summons to him, so, as long as you have some information you should be able to do it. Bank account being a major one.

Jeedan

£200, not much but enough to be annoying.

I've already done a claims thing through moneyclaim.gov which is an automated thing that does all the claims stuff for you, that was the letter that bounced back saying he'd moved. I don't know maybe if I submitted a letter to the claims court myself?

JohnnyCache

In the US, if you are suing someone you (or your lawyer or process server) can file a form with the post office to resolve a PO box, if that's what he used. I'm sure the UK has a similar process.

It's highly likely he simply refused your mail and is still at the address. If he used a physical address, and he burned you for enough money to make it worth it, drive up and look. Knock his door and/or neighbors and say you have some business with the guy and haven't been able to get in touch with him. politely and carefully. call people sir and ma'am, and ask them for their time before you talk to them.

if he really moved, talk to his ex-landlord or the new tenant.

This, of course, all assumes you think there's a legit intercommunication here and not a case of fraud.

japan

Jeedan wrote: »

Filing a claims letter it gets returned with a stamp from the post office listing it as undeliverable as the occupant is no longer at the address.

This doesn't mean he's actually moved. It just means that when the recorded delivery letter turned up at the place whoever answered the door said "that person doesn't live here anymore", which anyone with debt problems will say by default for precisely the reason you're discovering.

EDIT: Oh, right you already got as far as a county court claim form. You need to serve the papers on him by post (which didn't work), in person (which has obvious drawbacks), or by "subsituted service" (which means you pay someone to do it for you). If you want to do the third one you're looking for a "process server" which are usually instructed through an agency. They're basically debt collectors whose job it is to track someone down and hand over the claim form. Some of them have flat fees which may or my not be more than the amount you're trying to reclaim.

The level of effort they'll put in also varies by fee.

Jeedan

japan wrote: »

Jeedan wrote: »

Filing a claims letter it gets returned with a stamp from the post office listing it as undeliverable as the occupant is no longer at the address.

This doesn't mean he's actually moved. It just means that when the recorded delivery letter turned up at the place whoever answered the door said "that person doesn't live here anymore", which anyone with debt problems will say by default for precisely the reason you're discovering.

I don't have much room to speculate but this is what I suspect really. I have a friend whose boyfriend recently disapeared off the face of the earth after borrowing large amounts of money from everyone he knows and my mind keeps going back to that guy. I don't think he's a career scammer, just an asshole who thinks if he sits on his hands long enough it wont be his problem anymore.

JohnnyCache

japan wrote: »

Jeedan wrote: »

Filing a claims letter it gets returned with a stamp from the post office listing it as undeliverable as the occupant is no longer at the address.

This doesn't mean he's actually moved. It just means that when the recorded delivery letter turned up at the place whoever answered the door said "that person doesn't live here anymore", which anyone with debt problems will say by default for precisely the reason you're discovering.

EDIT: Oh, right you already got as far as a county court claim form. You need to serve the papers on him by post (which didn't work), in person (which has obvious drawbacks), or by "subsituted service" (which means you pay someone to do it for you). If you want to do the third one you're looking for a "process server" which are usually instructed through an agency. They're basically debt collectors whose job it is to track someone down and hand over the claim form. Some of them have flat fees which may or my not be more than the amount you're trying to reclaim.

The level of effort they'll put in also varies by fee.

can you still hire a bailiff in the UK?

Jam Warrior

How did you pay? Can your bank help by reversing the payment?

JohnnyCache

That's a good point. card companies usually side with cardholders, esp. if the person being reversed knows they have no grounds to respond to a dispute.

japan

JohnnyCache wrote: »

japan wrote: »

Jeedan wrote: »

Filing a claims letter it gets returned with a stamp from the post office listing it as undeliverable as the occupant is no longer at the address.

This doesn't mean he's actually moved. It just means that when the recorded delivery letter turned up at the place whoever answered the door said "that person doesn't live here anymore", which anyone with debt problems will say by default for precisely the reason you're discovering.

EDIT: Oh, right you already got as far as a county court claim form. You need to serve the papers on him by post (which didn't work), in person (which has obvious drawbacks), or by "subsituted service" (which means you pay someone to do it for you). If you want to do the third one you're looking for a "process server" which are usually instructed through an agency. They're basically debt collectors whose job it is to track someone down and hand over the claim form. Some of them have flat fees which may or my not be more than the amount you're trying to reclaim.

The level of effort they'll put in also varies by fee.

can you still hire a bailiff in the UK?

Bailiffs enforce judgements. Frequently they are the same people as the process servers and can be employed through the same agencies. You can hire them, but you can only hire them as bailiffs once you've already obtained judgement in your favour.

Fallingman

Given the audience of The Gumtree, it's quite possible that they moved on. But that's all pseculation I guess. Have they stopped communicating at all?

LearnedHand

Gumtree is for face to face exchanges. It's also full of scams these days (and for past few years). I'd avoid it at all costs. The Gumtree of today is not the Gumtree of 2007. I'm pretty sure you just lost £200.

MrMonroe

Jam Warrior wrote: »

How did you pay? Can your bank help by reversing the payment?

This is unquestionably your best option.

The money you'll spend tracking the guy down and then suing him, even if you represent yourself (unwise), is likely to be so near to or even more than the amount you stand to recover in court.

Call your bank, contest the charges.

Unless you did something uncommonly silly like mail the guy a cashier's check

Lewisham

If you can't get the money back from the bank, this exactly fits the bill of a small claim: http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/index.htm

The Citizens Advice Bureau should be able to help.

japan

Moneyclaim.gov.uk is an electronic method of issuing a small claim summons, so he's already done this, but needs to serve the papers.

Also there is no requirement to have someone represent you when making a small claim. The whole point of the system is to restrict costs and keep things accessible enough that a private individual can pursue a claim themselves.

Jeedan

Ok looking up FAQs on small claims procedure I found an interesting paragraph

It can be difficult for parties to litigation to understand that, in legal terms, service is not the same as delivery or receipt. A claim form is deemed to have been served on a defendant even if it has been returned to the court marked undelivered – provided that it was sent to the last known or usual address of the defendant. The claim form is even deemed to have been served if the claimant knows that the defendant has left that address – unless they know the defendant’s new address.

This rule is so strict that there is nothing the defendant can do to rebut it even if they have conclusive proof that they never received the document. There is even case law that says that service was still good where a document was sent to a property which had previously been destroyed.

So theres still some kind of chance I can get this through I hope. I'll have to check with the ctizens advice bureau or something.

Pel

Err. I may be misunderstanding you, but if the item is in the post office database, he attempted to mail it, correct? Have you inquired at the post office?

Figgy

Show up to the house with a bunch of mylar balloons and say you've got a delivery for the guy. When he says, "That's me!" you can let the balloons float into the sky and tell him to give you your 200 English Funbucks.

Jeedan

Pel wrote: »

Err. I may be misunderstanding you, but if the item is in the post office database, he attempted to mail it, correct? Have you inquired at the post office?

Weeks ago, they didnt have anything for me. The tracking number just says "information on this item is not available yet". If its been lost in any case I cant make the enquiries to find it as I'm not the sender.

bowen

Figgy wrote: »

Show up to the house with a bunch of mylar balloons and say you've got a delivery for the guy. When he says, "That's me!" you can let the balloons float into the sky and tell him to give you your 200 English Funbucks.

Make sure to have a giant novelty check too for -200 quid.

Apogee

bowen wrote: »

Figgy wrote: »

Show up to the house with a bunch of mylar balloons and say you've got a delivery for the guy. When he says, "That's me!" you can let the balloons float into the sky and tell him to give you your 200 English Funbucks.

Make sure to have a giant novelty check too for -200 quid.

I love this suggestion.

More practically, actually give him a box, with the letter inside.