As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

[WoW][Chat] Cata cata cata pon! (LOTS OF INFO IN THE OP)

15657585961

Posts

  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    There's some more "melee friendly" fights in ICC too, but then they go and enforce a "ranged quota" so that ranged don't just stand on the boss. They are generally identified by being the bosses where ranged need to spread out, and if you don't have enough ranged, the crap hits all the melee with AoE.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpgsteam~tinythumb.png
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    edited October 2010
    So, my equipment manager is broken because the server refuses to send me item information for half my stuff after the patch.

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • simsim Registered User
    edited October 2010
    ICC seems pretty good about requiring just a couple ranged as well as melee DPS then fill the rest with whatever. Good rogues, dks, and especially retpalis rip stuff up in there.

    I had to use default unit frames after the patch yesterday. Never. Again....so bad.

    sim on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2010
    I cannot think of a single fight that requires you to have melee dps in wrath.

    I can think of plenty that require you to have ranged dps.

    Hell, the only thing that melee dps used to really bring over ranged was auto-cleave abilities that didn't muck with your rotation, but they nerfed the shit out of that.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Well, the LK in particular is a great fight to have at least 1-2 melee. Mainly because range are on the vile spirits and you will be wasting a lot of time not burning him down. Plus, you know, stuns on the Valkyrie which pretty only melee can do well for a long period of time.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2010
    Oh the Valks? Where a misopportune defile can prevent the melee from touching it? And why would all the range be on vile spirits? You realize that a ranged dps can be shooting Lich King instead of the spirits, right? If you had zero melee dps on LK, you would hardly be punished for it.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    It's pretty hard to have a fight that caters specifically to melee, since ranged can stand on melee. (Edit: Although, I think most melee tend to have a bit higher dps than most ranged while moving, but fights tend not to take advantage of that. ...and then melee spend more time moving anyway!)

    But the mechanic that often requires you to have ranged also prevents you from having too many ranged, at least in 25man: there's only so much room to spread out in the room.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpgsteam~tinythumb.png
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Oh the Valks? Where a misopportune defile can prevent the melee from touching it? And why would all the range be on vile spirits? You realize that a ranged dps can be shooting Lich King instead of the spirits, right? If you had zero melee dps on LK, you would hardly be punished for it.

    Well... If you're doing the neck deep in vile achievement, ranged would be on the spirits.

    But aside from that, mm yeah, we just spread out in 10man and soak it (shadow priest, tank, etc) in 25man.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpgsteam~tinythumb.png
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2010
    End wrote: »
    Oh the Valks? Where a misopportune defile can prevent the melee from touching it? And why would all the range be on vile spirits? You realize that a ranged dps can be shooting Lich King instead of the spirits, right? If you had zero melee dps on LK, you would hardly be punished for it.

    Well... If you're doing the neck deep in vile achievement, ranged would be on the spirits.

    You are missing my point. The entirety of it.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    End wrote: »
    Oh the Valks? Where a misopportune defile can prevent the melee from touching it? And why would all the range be on vile spirits? You realize that a ranged dps can be shooting Lich King instead of the spirits, right? If you had zero melee dps on LK, you would hardly be punished for it.

    Well... If you're doing the neck deep in vile achievement, ranged would be on the spirits.

    You are missing my point. The entirety of it.

    *grabs a raid full of ranged DPS*
    *points to X ranged DPS players*
    "Pretend you're melee. When I say 'melee on Valks,' that means you."


    Edit- and as far as 'what melee brings to the table,' I think interrupts and stuns are kind of intended to be for melee to do, but it's not quite the same as the survival boost of not getting cleaved/whatever. A couple talent trees now have a "boost damage after interrupting a spell" talent I think, so we'll see if that helps. Obviously blizz wants to incentivize doing more than just mindlessly whacking the boss.

    Bobble on
  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    You could have a boss with low armor that increases physical DPS, but in that case you could also do well with hunters. Or something like the original Instructor Razuvious that made mana-users have to hide periodically. That included hunters at the time, but also included melee paladins/shamans, or what few there were in Naxx-40 days.

    It may almost require a mechanic that boosts your damage specifically and only for physical melee attacks. Or some form of Twin Emps fight where instead of having vulnerabilities to physical only and magic only, they have vulnerabilities to melee only and ranged only.

    SabreMau on
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Noray wrote: »
    Making melee dps slightly better than ranged dps with gear of the same level would be fair, I think. I mostly tank so I don't care too much but melee DPS just gets the short end a lot.

    They claim to do this, but as soon as Rogue DPS is slightly behind, say, Hunters, guess who's sitting the bench?

    Because 3.0 when Rogue DPS was shit compared to other classes was just fantastic.... *sigh*

    (edit: a lot of it has to do with us being extremely gear dependant unfortunately... we do great once geared up, but at the start of an expansion, our damage tanks)
    (edit 2: though to be fair about the "beginning of the expansion" thing, Wrath beta was just a joke for Rogues.. I was in that, like 90% of our shit was broken/NYI until maybe two patches before 3.0 went live when everything changed completely, and a ton of it was broken in 3.0 still)

    Warlock82 on
    Switch: 2143-7130-1359 | 3DS: 4983-4927-6699 | Steam: warlock82 | PSN: Warlock2282
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    End wrote: »
    Oh the Valks? Where a misopportune defile can prevent the melee from touching it? And why would all the range be on vile spirits? You realize that a ranged dps can be shooting Lich King instead of the spirits, right? If you had zero melee dps on LK, you would hardly be punished for it.

    Well... If you're doing the neck deep in vile achievement, ranged would be on the spirits.

    You are missing my point. The entirety of it.

    You asked why.

    I gave the sole reason why we ever had ranged on spirits.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpgsteam~tinythumb.png
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2010
    Most every tank (except DKs) have a stun. Most every tank has an interrupt. A two tank fight you're gonna have plenty of stuns and interrupts just by virtue of bringing the tank.

    Hell, you know who we had stunning the valks? Holy and Protection paladins. Melee do not 'bring the stuns.' DKs, warriors, and druids don't even have stuns to use while dpsing. Rogues get fucked when they have to stun because they need to build 5 CPs first.

    I remember a couple of wipes on Mim's hardmode because the two ranged we had in the raid had been killed. I remember how ridiculously hard Sarth was as brand new content because we had 1 or 2 ranged show up at most. Ranged DPS is a frequent necessity to raiding. Melee dps? I'd love to do some raids with zero melee dps. We'd cheese half the fights.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2010
    End wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    Oh the Valks? Where a misopportune defile can prevent the melee from touching it? And why would all the range be on vile spirits? You realize that a ranged dps can be shooting Lich King instead of the spirits, right? If you had zero melee dps on LK, you would hardly be punished for it.

    Well... If you're doing the neck deep in vile achievement, ranged would be on the spirits.

    You are missing my point. The entirety of it.

    You asked why.

    I gave the sole reason why we ever had ranged on spirits.

    You're still missing the point. The range do not have to be on the spirits. Even if you are going for that achieve. And still, you can't get that achievement if your raid is melee heavy. His point was that ranged would be stuck on the vile spirits so you'd lose dps on the lich king. That is simply ignoring the fact that a ranged dps can dps the Lich King just as easily as a melee dps can.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    End wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    Oh the Valks? Where a misopportune defile can prevent the melee from touching it? And why would all the range be on vile spirits? You realize that a ranged dps can be shooting Lich King instead of the spirits, right? If you had zero melee dps on LK, you would hardly be punished for it.

    Well... If you're doing the neck deep in vile achievement, ranged would be on the spirits.

    You are missing my point. The entirety of it.

    You asked why.

    I gave the sole reason why we ever had ranged on spirits.

    You're still missing the point. The range do not have to be on the spirits. Even if you are going for that achieve. And still, you can't get that achievement if your raid is melee heavy. His point was that ranged would be stuck on the vile spirits so you'd lose dps on the lich king. That is simply ignoring the fact that a ranged dps can dps the Lich King just as easily as a melee dps can.

    How the hell do you do that achievement without ranged on the spirits?

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpgsteam~tinythumb.png
  • ZhulikZhulik Registered User
    edited October 2010
    I always figure hitting fire elementals with fire is like hitting someone with a rock. It won't burn the elemental, but since they're made of fire, fire would essentially be "solid" to them and would impact them kinetically.

    It's magical fire, so it can burn fire elementals made of silly ol' regular fire. Same reason you can set fish on fire while underwater, same reason frostbolts don't evaporate approaching Ragnaros. Magic!

    Zhulik on
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Zhulik wrote: »
    I always figure hitting fire elementals with fire is like hitting someone with a rock. It won't burn the elemental, but since they're made of fire, fire would essentially be "solid" to them and would impact them kinetically.

    It's magical fire, so it can burn fire elementals made of silly ol' regular fire. Same reason you can set fish on fire while underwater, same reason frostbolts don't evaporate approaching Ragnaros. Magic!

    Or: A wizard did it

    Warlock82 on
    Switch: 2143-7130-1359 | 3DS: 4983-4927-6699 | Steam: warlock82 | PSN: Warlock2282
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2010
    End wrote: »

    How the hell do you do that achievement without ranged on the spirits?

    It is amazing how adept you are at missing the point.

    Due to server error, all of your melee dps is suddenly transformed into ranged dps! None of them have to be on the spirits.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    End wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    Oh the Valks? Where a misopportune defile can prevent the melee from touching it? And why would all the range be on vile spirits? You realize that a ranged dps can be shooting Lich King instead of the spirits, right? If you had zero melee dps on LK, you would hardly be punished for it.

    Well... If you're doing the neck deep in vile achievement, ranged would be on the spirits.

    You are missing my point. The entirety of it.

    You asked why.

    I gave the sole reason why we ever had ranged on spirits.

    You're still missing the point. The range do not have to be on the spirits. Even if you are going for that achieve. And still, you can't get that achievement if your raid is melee heavy. His point was that ranged would be stuck on the vile spirits so you'd lose dps on the lich king. That is simply ignoring the fact that a ranged dps can dps the Lich King just as easily as a melee dps can.

    How the hell do you do that achievement without ranged on the spirits?

    End, the discussion was "Is there ever a time when having too much ranged is a bad thing." When Munkus says that ranged don't have to be on spirits, he's not saying ALL ranged in the raid, just that you can break them up and have SOME on spirits and SOME doing other things. The point was that you couldn't do this with a raid composed entirely of melee dps.

    Bobble on
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Bobble wrote: »
    End, the discussion was "Is there ever a time when having too much ranged is a bad thing." When Munkus says that ranged don't have to be on spirits, he's not saying ALL ranged in the raid, just that you can break them up and have SOME on spirits and SOME doing other things. The point was that you couldn't do this with a raid composed entirely of melee dps.

    My claim is: Ranged don't have to even be on spirits unless you're doing the achievement.

    Is this wrong?

    Edit: I'm WELL aware you can't do that achievement without ranged, UNLESS there is some method of doing it without killing them for a distance, in which case you wouldn't need ranged anyway. I'm specifically confused by "The range do not have to be on the spirits. Even if you are going for that achieve."

    Edit2: Also, I'm aware of munkus's initial point, but I disagree that ranged shouldn't ever be on the spirits.

    Edit3: btw, heheh, when we did the achievement on 25man, all ranged did have to be on the spirits because we were melee heavy. I think that's funny, considering. Obviously if we had more ranged we could have had some on the boss, but we didn't.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpgsteam~tinythumb.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Oh the Valks? Where a misopportune defile can prevent the melee from touching it? And why would all the range be on vile spirits? You realize that a ranged dps can be shooting Lich King instead of the spirits, right? If you had zero melee dps on LK, you would hardly be punished for it.
    Hell, the more warlocks you have, the easier phase 2 becomes. At least in non-heroic.

    forty on
    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    End wrote: »
    But the mechanic that often requires you to have ranged also prevents you from having too many ranged, at least in 25man: there's only so much room to spread out in the room.
    Yes, because all ranged are hunters and can't DPS from melee range.

    forty on
    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    forty wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    But the mechanic that often requires you to have ranged also prevents you from having too many ranged, at least in 25man: there's only so much room to spread out in the room.
    Yes, because all ranged are hunters and can't DPS from melee range.

    Ok, I hadn't thought of that, although now that I think about it, healers always get to go to melee range first in our raids.

    Edit: Although some fights if you stand at melee, it's worse than standing at ranged. I'd rather make the melee stand there ;-)

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpgsteam~tinythumb.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I am trying to think of some WotLK fights where having more ranged is a liability, and nothing comes to mind.

    Like Munkus said, the number one thing melee have brought to the table in WotLK is cleave power for fights like Anub, Marrowgar, Lich King phase 2, and that's basically gone in Cata.

    forty on
    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    So I'm honored with Bloodsail. I am NOT looking forward to grinding back to exalted with Steemweedle. I'm guessing it's probably around 15 minutes to find a key and free Knot, so at 250 times that's like 60 hours. :S

    Undead Scottsman on
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    forty wrote: »
    I am trying to think of some WotLK fights where having more ranged is a liability, and nothing comes to mind.

    Like Munkus said, the number one thing melee have brought to the table in WotLK is cleave power for fights like Anub, Marrowgar, Lich King phase 2, and that's basically gone in Cata.

    I don't understand why people keep saying the cleave of melee is gone.

    Paladins still have it. Warriors still have it. Rogues still have it.. I have no idea about druids because I never played one. Ditto with DK's.

    Whats the controversy?

    The Dude With Herpes on
    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    forty wrote: »
    I am trying to think of some WotLK fights where having more ranged is a liability, and nothing comes to mind.

    Like Munkus said, the number one thing melee have brought to the table in WotLK is cleave power for fights like Anub, Marrowgar, Lich King phase 2, and that's basically gone in Cata.

    I don't understand why people keep saying the cleave of melee is gone.

    Paladins still have it. Warriors still have it. Rogues still have it.. I have no idea about druids because I never played one. Ditto with DK's.

    Whats the controversy?

    What cleave do Rogues have? You talking about Blade Flurry? That's only Combat spec.

    Warlock82 on
    Switch: 2143-7130-1359 | 3DS: 4983-4927-6699 | Steam: warlock82 | PSN: Warlock2282
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    It was the only spec that had a "cleave" to begin with.

    The Dude With Herpes on
    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2010
    It's been nerfed to shit for a lot of melee. Warriors have whirlwind, which is no longer part of the bread-and-butter rotation.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    They also have cleave which can be glyphed and sweeping strikes.

    EDIT: Sweeping strikes, not snd.

    The Dude With Herpes on
    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I would have sort of liked to replace our non-hunter ranged with healers on heroic Sindragosa. Only sort of though, since I still wanted the achievement. We also didn't have that many healers available in the guild.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpgsteam~tinythumb.png
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2010
    Sweeping strikes? Super long cooldown, lasts 10 seconds. Cleave is not part of the normal rotation, takes the place of heroic strike which is.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    So replace HS with Cleave on the rare fights where you need it; you'd want to use it on trash anyway.

    And Sweeping Strikes lasts long enough to use during the times on a boss you need it and the CD is only 1m, you can use Cleave and/or bladestorm if you need the multi-target damage and it's on CD.

    There's few enough boss fights, in wotlk anyway. And all the classes that could do it before still can, just not quite as easily.

    I think there's a lot of over-exaggeration going on about it.

    The Dude With Herpes on
    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I think there's a lot of over-exaggeration going on about it.

    MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of exaggerations.

    Undead Scottsman on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2010
    The point is that they nerfed cleave effects and are attempting to move melee to a more 'smart cleave' system where they have to choose between dealing cleave damage or do high single target damage. Their reasoning behind this is that ranged have to make these decisions because all of their spells are single target, except the ones that are built for AoE.

    Blizzard misses the point because range is incredibly more useful in a raid setting than a melee is. The incidental aoe effect that many melee had was their only real selling point over ranged.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • Agent CooperAgent Cooper Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    polloface wrote: »
    Yeah, that's one reason I have trouble sticking with WoW. Not only do PCs not matter in the scheme of things, Blizzard sometimes goes out of its way to point out how insignificant your character is. Like the end of the DK starting zone (which otherwise I love) when Arthas shows up and talks about how only Tyrion matters and then you watch the important characters do stuff. It's like the game takes you to the kid's table and says, "Shh, the grown-ups are talking now."

    This is why I hate the wow playerbase, 5 years ago people were shitting bricks that we would even be in the same room as Kel'Thuzad and that random no names shouldnt kill lore characters.

    I'm not people.
    shryke wrote: »
    Yeah, that's one reason I have trouble sticking with WoW. Not only do PCs not matter in the scheme of things, Blizzard sometimes goes out of its way to point out how insignificant your character is. Like the end of the DK starting zone (which otherwise I love) when Arthas shows up and talks about how only Tyrion matters and then you watch the important characters do stuff. It's like the game takes you to the kid's table and says, "Shh, the grown-ups are talking now."

    That's that only way to do it.

    Otherwise it's just a bunch of anonymous guys running around killing shit. Storytelling requires characters.

    Untrue. LotRO has plenty of story instances that are just your character doing things. Yeah, you have Aragorn and Elrond telling you what you should do, but they don't (usually) sweep in at the end to save you from the big mean Nazgul.

    In other words, in LotRO lore characters provide exposition and the rest of the story is up to your character. In WoW, your character is just a henchman.

    Agent Cooper on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    forty wrote: »
    I am trying to think of some WotLK fights where having more ranged is a liability, and nothing comes to mind.

    Like Munkus said, the number one thing melee have brought to the table in WotLK is cleave power for fights like Anub, Marrowgar, Lich King phase 2, and that's basically gone in Cata.

    I don't understand why people keep saying the cleave of melee is gone.

    Paladins still have it. Warriors still have it. Rogues still have it.. I have no idea about druids because I never played one. Ditto with DK's.

    Whats the controversy?

    No, they don't. Not the way they used to. Blizzard, in fact, set out to deliberately kill cleaves.

    Now classes must CHOSE between Cleaving and their normal single-target rotation. Before cleaving just happened as part of their normal rotation.

    So I'm honored with Bloodsail. I am NOT looking forward to grinding back to exalted with Steemweedle. I'm guessing it's probably around 15 minutes to find a key and free Knot, so at 250 times that's like 60 hours. :S

    You should do the Cloth turn-in quests to get back to Neutral first. Less stupid Key quest crap.

    shryke on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The point is that they nerfed cleave effects and are attempting to move melee to a more 'smart cleave' system where they have to choose between dealing cleave damage or do high single target damage. Their reasoning behind this is that ranged have to make these decisions because all of their spells are single target, except the ones that are built for AoE.

    Blizzard misses the point because range is incredibly more useful in a raid setting than a melee is. The incidental aoe effect that many melee had was their only real selling point over ranged.

    Melee has huge drawbacks like not being any fun in WoW, so I agree that throwing those poor suckers a bone and then taking it away to be a bad move.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    I am trying to think of some WotLK fights where having more ranged is a liability, and nothing comes to mind.

    Like Munkus said, the number one thing melee have brought to the table in WotLK is cleave power for fights like Anub, Marrowgar, Lich King phase 2, and that's basically gone in Cata.

    I don't understand why people keep saying the cleave of melee is gone.

    Paladins still have it. Warriors still have it. Rogues still have it.. I have no idea about druids because I never played one. Ditto with DK's.

    Whats the controversy?

    No, they don't. Not the way they used to. Blizzard, in fact, set out to deliberately kill cleaves.

    Now classes must CHOSE between Cleaving and their normal single-target rotation. Before cleaving just happened as part of their normal rotation.

    So I'm honored with Bloodsail. I am NOT looking forward to grinding back to exalted with Steemweedle. I'm guessing it's probably around 15 minutes to find a key and free Knot, so at 250 times that's like 60 hours. :S

    You should do the Cloth turn-in quests to get back to Neutral first. Less stupid Key quest crap.
    Apparently there are some mobs you can grind to do it without losing bloodsail rep.

    Plus I'm saving cloth turn ins for the OTHER goblins. :D

    Undead Scottsman on
This discussion has been closed.