i totally agree here. honestly, how many times does non-attack rally screw you vs. how many times does attack rally screw you (i guess this is only really a question that can apply to those who played the beta)? i bet it's not even close. attack rally is almost always the way to go.
that being said, it does make the game significantly easier (not a bad thing necessarily).
Attack-Rally never screwed me over. I've never been in a position where I wanted to gather up my units in a corner of my base or whatever before sending them to attack. If it's reached the point where they are going to be meeting enemies on the way to their rally point (assuming it's in your base), then it's too late to make an army.
Move-Rally has lost me games. Several games. Particularly as Zerg. If I'm Zerg and repelling an attack, one of my main benefits is being able to quickly reinforce my army. If--as often happens--my army is being reinforced from several hatcheries, that means in the midst of a battle I have to be watching, say, 3 different small groups of units for them to spawn so I can click on them and change their move to an attack-move. It's just moronic.
Shift clicking a rally point can actually be quite handy on certain maps, if you want to rally to a location but your units may cross through an unsafe area or something on the way, you want to make sure they aren't running through a line of tanks or something to rally with your units.
Personally, I prefer the rally-move rather than rally-attack in most situations, because I usually want my forces to get gathered before I attack something. Though as Protoss all I really rally is robo units or something, so usually I am sending them to my death ball before an attack. When playing as Zerg there are plenty of times where I would love A-move on spawn, same as Terran. Streaming units into your opponents main is huge in a huge battle.
well, there were enemy tanks on one side of my ramp and i saw some move into position on the other side of the ramp so i assumed they also belonged to the enemy. wasn't completely wrong i guess
4v4 is pretty much you vs all 4 if you are the unlucky one to be attacked.
Yeah, 4v4 is a total clusterfuck. I find it a lot less fun on average than War3's 4v4 was. Not to say that it's surprising or that I expected better, since the game obviously wasn't designed with 4v4 in mind, but it just doesn't work that well compared to War3, which did a good job supporting the game type.
personally, i thought war3s 4v4 was a far worse clusterfuck because of the heroes. 4 bms or mks or even 4 ams with water elemental or farseers with wolves was pretty stupid dude.
At least your allies could TP to your base, though. That and the higher health of units in War3 meant battles weren't over in 10 seconds, so your allies had a little more time to react and assist.
Just to be clear, these aren't complaints about SC2. They're just why I feel 4v4 tends to be less fun and more of a crapshoot, since the game wasn't designed to support it at all.
I really like that VOD you posted. I've been wanting to implement more Warp Prisms, and between the play we saw at MLG DC and that, I think I have a lot of ideas.
*quote tree snip*
At least your allies could TP to your base, though. That and the higher health of units in War3 meant battles weren't over in 10 seconds, so your allies had a little more time to react and assist.
Just to be clear, these aren't complaints about SC2. They're just why I feel 4v4 tends to be less fun and more of a crapshoot, since the game wasn't designed to support it at all.
This works pretty well if 2 or more of you are Protoss. Everyone Proxy-pylons each other's base, and while 4 stalkers/sentrys (each) might not hold off the push, it'll give you time to get the rest of your forces to the fight.
Dropping Loads on
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3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
edited October 2010
I actually have a game now that I might want some feedback on, that is to say it's not clear to me what I did wrong this time.
Played against a friend TvT, out expoed him so much. I took my third, and a gold at that, when he took his natural.
And I constantly produced units, and upgraded. Still he rolled right over me.
Will upload once I figure out how it works.
Only two things appeared to me on replay: I scanned more than usual, and he had a few siege tanks which I didn't.
If OGSInca had warped in sentries, forcefielded ramp, destroyed reactors/rax instead of what he did it would have been unbelievably baller.
Probably not as effective, but the entire warp/blink into main and FF ramp is pretty hilarious.
Frozenzen on
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
edited October 2010
Also had a couple of silly awesome games in 3v3, with focus on planetary fortresses and nukes. One game I obliterated about 70 foods worth of units with a nuke - they left their army standing when my mates did harass.
*quote tree snip*
At least your allies could TP to your base, though. That and the higher health of units in War3 meant battles weren't over in 10 seconds, so your allies had a little more time to react and assist.
Just to be clear, these aren't complaints about SC2. They're just why I feel 4v4 tends to be less fun and more of a crapshoot, since the game wasn't designed to support it at all.
This works pretty well if 2 or more of you are Protoss. Everyone Proxy-pylons each other's base, and while 4 stalkers/sentrys (each) might not hold off the push, it'll give you time to get the rest of your forces to the fight.
A lot of 4 on 1 buttfuckings happen before you can reasonably have warp gate tech and a decent number of gateways.
Tonight iCCup is casting MLG replays - MLG Mondays is what we're calling it and just trying to spotlight some matches that weren't streamed (though I think we'll probably do a few that were too).
I'm not casting tonight but it's Raelcun + AngelofDeath I believe.
100 food voidrays beat 100 food muta with like 50 food worth of voidrays remaining.
void rays cost 2/3 more minerals per food than mutalisks
even 100 food of corruptors is less mineral expensive than 100 food of void rays
what I'm saying is that void rays might be anorexic and they might need to eat a sammich
Void rays are really dense in terms of resources/food; this is part of why an end-game army of 50 VRs is unstoppable vs. any composition*. It's only something you see in weird FFAs, though, so I'm not complaining. Several times while playing the latest Funday Monday I've wished I could smash the clown who was massing up void rays, but instead I was playing find-the-command center with some Terran who wouldn't quit. The other part of their strength is the fact that they stack and have almost zero overkill.
*Except for an incredibly lucky/skilled nuclear strike, the Protoss swirly, seeker missiles, or (by far the easiest and best) chained fungals.
just burned up.. I thinkt maybe a few ultras as rams and a stream of banelings behind them might work against the ground stuff, of course with colossi supported by corruptors
Stimmed Marines and Vikings just straight melted my corruptors
just burned up.. I thinkt maybe a few ultras as rams and a stream of banelings behind them might work against the ground stuff, of course with colossi supported by corruptors
Stimmed Marines and Vikings just straight melted my corruptors
Yeah, corruptors won't beat vikings and colossi won't beat tanks. What you probably want are ultralisks, immortals, charging zealots/speed lings, and templar. Some infestors would be fantastic as well, and you'll need a small number of stalkers or hydras (but not a lot).
just burned up.. I thinkt maybe a few ultras as rams and a stream of banelings behind them might work against the ground stuff, of course with colossi supported by corruptors
Stimmed Marines and Vikings just straight melted my corruptors
Yeah, corruptors won't beat vikings and colossi won't beat tanks. What you probably want are ultralisks, immortals, charging zealots/speed lings, and templar. Some infestors would be fantastic as well, and you'll need a small number of stalkers or hydras (but not a lot).
Immortals/Storm w/Zerglings/Ultras - maybe throw in an infestor? Hrmm...
so can someone give me tips on the replays i posts a few pages back?
what should a toss do against a zerg who rushes to mutas while defending with spine crawlers and speedlings?
Anticipate by putting down an early stargate and produce phoenixes to deter his muta count.
Otherwise, macro up, build up some defenses at home, and punish him in the window where he hasn't reached critical mass with his mutas and his ground army is still weak.
Kambing on
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I really don't think the supply depot before barracks really changes much at all. I do think it's not really a necessary change due to the reaper nerfs but it really doesn't seem to hurt much.
Apparently on the Korean Server people have started walling in Zergs with two barracks (before supply) and then just pumping units. Which seems pretty crazy and may be the sort of thing Blizzard was thinking of.
Actually I think that now that reapers can't come out super early and they get the speed later, maybe they can start buffing them to make them a useful mid/late game unit.
I would imagine instead of using 1 to death and having it wear out quickly then replacing it with a new one that then feels different, he has a pile he switches through and replaces regularly so they always feel the same.
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Attack-Rally never screwed me over. I've never been in a position where I wanted to gather up my units in a corner of my base or whatever before sending them to attack. If it's reached the point where they are going to be meeting enemies on the way to their rally point (assuming it's in your base), then it's too late to make an army.
Move-Rally has lost me games. Several games. Particularly as Zerg. If I'm Zerg and repelling an attack, one of my main benefits is being able to quickly reinforce my army. If--as often happens--my army is being reinforced from several hatcheries, that means in the midst of a battle I have to be watching, say, 3 different small groups of units for them to spawn so I can click on them and change their move to an attack-move. It's just moronic.
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Personally, I prefer the rally-move rather than rally-attack in most situations, because I usually want my forces to get gathered before I attack something. Though as Protoss all I really rally is robo units or something, so usually I am sending them to my death ball before an attack. When playing as Zerg there are plenty of times where I would love A-move on spawn, same as Terran. Streaming units into your opponents main is huge in a huge battle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo28Zmi6Ulg
Seems like a pretty good strat.
Just to be clear, these aren't complaints about SC2. They're just why I feel 4v4 tends to be less fun and more of a crapshoot, since the game wasn't designed to support it at all.
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This works pretty well if 2 or more of you are Protoss. Everyone Proxy-pylons each other's base, and while 4 stalkers/sentrys (each) might not hold off the push, it'll give you time to get the rest of your forces to the fight.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
Played against a friend TvT, out expoed him so much. I took my third, and a gold at that, when he took his natural.
And I constantly produced units, and upgraded. Still he rolled right over me.
Will upload once I figure out how it works.
Only two things appeared to me on replay: I scanned more than usual, and he had a few siege tanks which I didn't.
Probably not as effective, but the entire warp/blink into main and FF ramp is pretty hilarious.
Bo5 between Fenix and SeLeCT just starting!
yay
EDIT: wut. something happened. new stream just started.
lol - the bo5 between Fenix and SeleCT is a match that I casted a while back, here are the VODs:
http://www.fileplay.net/file/10312/itl-16-fenix-vs-select
It's good matches but it isn't new. :P
Tonight iCCup is casting MLG replays - MLG Mondays is what we're calling it and just trying to spotlight some matches that weren't streamed (though I think we'll probably do a few that were too).
I'm not casting tonight but it's Raelcun + AngelofDeath I believe.
terrans go mmm/mech with heavy viking support
what can protoss/zerg do to counter?
*Except for an incredibly lucky/skilled nuclear strike, the Protoss swirly, seeker missiles, or (by far the easiest and best) chained fungals.
just burned up.. I thinkt maybe a few ultras as rams and a stream of banelings behind them might work against the ground stuff, of course with colossi supported by corruptors
Stimmed Marines and Vikings just straight melted my corruptors
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OH, okay.
Immortals/Storm w/Zerglings/Ultras - maybe throw in an infestor? Hrmm...
what should a toss do against a zerg who rushes to mutas while defending with spine crawlers and speedlings?
That'd look good in the profile.
FFAUNDAY MONDAY
right?
Anticipate by putting down an early stargate and produce phoenixes to deter his muta count.
Otherwise, macro up, build up some defenses at home, and punish him in the window where he hasn't reached critical mass with his mutas and his ground army is still weak.
What happened to it?
It's like changing barrels on a machine gun.
and i suck so bad
hopefully playing every day will help that
edit: don't most bw players just have stacks of keyboards and mice they go through somewhat regularly
and that's why they just buy the cheapest dang thing they can find
Maybe give them their demo charges back heh.
*points down to sig*
this has been a long time coming
Grats dude.
Hopefully once I actually have time to start laddering again I'll get promoted xD
Grats, guek! That promotion just seemed like a matter of time with all the wins you were racking up on the ladder.