Yikes. Apparently 1% amounts to $26 million that Squeenix had to pay the Japanese investor.
Nice troll. Yes, I recognize it as such but am still going to bite.
We understand you don't like the game, but if you actually read that article, you'll notice that the guy sold his stock which was worth an estimated $26 million, not that "Squeenix had to pay" him that amount. Do you even understand how stocks work? He sold it to individuals who were eager to purchase it; SE had absolutely nothing to do with the transaction. You can't sell stock (just like anything else) if nobody wants it. Now, his flooding of the market with SE stock did cause prices to decrease (as will happen whenever you flood a market with massive quantities of an item), but according to the article, "Square Enix’s share prices recovered within the day." indicating that there was no appreciable effect from it.
Bottom line is that old boy just made himself $26 million richer (well... $26 million minus what he originally paid, taxes, etc, etc, but since you obviously don't understand how this stuff works, I'm not gonna try to confuse you more), and SE's completely and totally unaffected by his tantrum.
Yeah, while SE is clearly worried about a huge subscription drop off after the free trial ends, them giving everyone an extra month is like them saying "okay, we'll just take the hit, but don't give up on us just yet." It's what should be a surprisingly effective PR move for them, especially considering their god awful reputation.
Saying this as someone who finally /ragequit FFXI after playing it for too long and also hates the hell out of FFXIV in it's current "Most Disappointing Game of the Year Edition" form, S-E really doesn't deserve that sort of random sniping from gaming news sites.
They're doing plenty wrong without having to try and spin something only kinda related to them as bad news.
Nice troll. Yes, I recognize it as such but am still going to bite.
Wow Ostermei I was just looking for some rational coherent converation, since you're starting off being so WELCOMING, you're pretty much begging me to respond to you:
We understand you don't like the game, but if you actually read that article, you'll notice that the guy sold his stock which was worth an estimated $26 million, not that "Squeenix had to pay" him that amount. Do you even understand how stocks work?
As a matter of fact I do, here are some definitions of stock, that you can educate yourself with:
An instrument that signifies an ownership position (called equity) in a corporation, and represents a claim on its proportional share in the corporation's assets and profits.
This means that every stock owner owns a piece of the corporation. When they sell it, who's money does it come from? (Hint, NOT other investors.)
He sold it to individuals who were eager to purchase it; SE had absolutely nothing to do with the transaction. You can't sell stock (just like anything else) if nobody wants it.
Simply not true. A Stock Certificate is a contractual relationship between the corporation and the shareholder. As such the corporation is obligated to honor the stock certificate at current market values. If others came by later and bought up the stock (even SE) then it's possible the stock could have recovered. That article doesn't mention it. Haven't you ever heard of corporations "Buying back" their own stock?
Now, his flooding of the market with SE stock did cause prices to decrease (as will happen whenever you flood a market with massive quantities of an item), but according to the article, "Square Enix’s share prices recovered within the day." indicating that there was no appreciable effect from it.
That wasn't my point, my point was that the game SUCKS SO BAD THAT AT LEAST ONE INVESTOR QUIT. Stock prices fluxuate all the time so it's irrelevant that their stock "recovered" by the end of the day.
Bottom line is that old boy just made himself $26 million richer (well... $26 million minus what he originally paid, taxes, etc, etc, but since you obviously don't understand how this stuff works, I'm not gonna try to confuse you more), and SE's completely and totally unaffected by his tantrum.
Who cares what his cost basis was? Again, it's irrelevant whether he made money from selling it or lost money. The point is the SE has really gone off the deep end lately in terms of customer relations and shareholder relations.
Now Ostermei, tell me where were you earlier in this thread when others were complaining about the UI and other problems with the game? Why do you have to be such a silly goose to me? Plenty of other people here have been polite and engaged in reasonable debate, but you're just hostile from the get-go...
EDIT: See that Osermei? Kashi had a good rebuttal, and even was reasonable to boot. You could learn something.
DisruptedCapitalist on
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
I'm loving this game. It's a nice and slow pace, meaning I can actually enjoy leveling and take in the environment. There's so much to do, regardless of fatigue. Instead of rolling another toon and letting the main one build up rested XP like I did in WoW, I can simply switch weapons or tools and level up something else.
I hear a lot of hate about this fatigue system. SE should have named it something positive (i.e. Rest).
Now for my complaints. The UI is incredibly laggy. It takes entirely too long to load a shop! Also, having to restart the game several times to make sure graphics settings are correct is a pain. Finally, crafting failures. I hate crafting +3 Gloves of Fuckawesomeness without trying, only to fail when smelting copper.
So far, I can see myself staying subscribed after the 60-day trial. It's a good change compared to my endgame rush in WoW.
We understand you don't like the game, but if you actually read that article, you'll notice that the guy sold his stock which was worth an estimated $26 million, not that "Squeenix had to pay" him that amount. Do you even understand how stocks work?
As a matter of fact I do, here are some definitions of stock, that you can educate yourself with:
An instrument that signifies an ownership position (called equity) in a corporation, and represents a claim on its proportional share in the corporation's assets and profits.
This means that every stock owner owns a piece of the corporation. When they sell it, who's money does it come from? (Hint, NOT other investors.)
Actually, YES, from other investors. Because unless the company is buying back their own stock (which you mention below), which is a relative rarity, selling stock is a transaction between investors (with a brokerage in the middle, more often than not, but let's not get bogged down in the details). Yes, stock signifies ownership in a company, but if I buy 1% of a company and don't want it anymore and tell my broker "sell this for me," they're going to sell it to another investor who told his/her brokerage "buy this for me," not the company itself. How do you think their stock price recovered in the same day, if there weren't other investors buying it up? You seriously think that the price would go UP if SE was frantically scrambling to buy back their own stock?
He sold it to individuals who were eager to purchase it; SE had absolutely nothing to do with the transaction. You can't sell stock (just like anything else) if nobody wants it.
Simply not true. A Stock Certificate is a contractual relationship between the corporation and the shareholder. As such the corporation is obligated to honor the stock certificate at current market values. If others came by later and bought up the stock (even SE) then it's possible the stock could have recovered. That article doesn't mention it. Haven't you ever heard of corporations "Buying back" their own stock?
As a matter of fact, I HAVE heard of corporations buying back their own stock, in fact, I've been on both sides of stock buybacks, helping to administer one and being offered the opportunity to sell back stock I own to a company which was going through a buy-back process. This isn't that. If it were that, don't you think the article itself would have mentioned that SE was throwing their own money at this guy to try to keep things in order? Can you think of any reason why there wasn't even a hint of that in the article? Think hard, now.
Now, his flooding of the market with SE stock did cause prices to decrease (as will happen whenever you flood a market with massive quantities of an item), but according to the article, "Square Enix’s share prices recovered within the day." indicating that there was no appreciable effect from it.
That wasn't my point, my point was that the game SUCKS SO BAD THAT AT LEAST ONE INVESTOR QUIT. Stock prices fluxuate all the time so it's irrelevant that their stock "recovered" by the end of the day.
See, now you're just backpedalling on your point. You threw this out there thinking that it was a horrible condemnation of SE's game that they had to pay all this money to this guy and they're gonna be hosed because of it, but when I point out that SE itself is absolutely no worse off at the end of the day because their stock price recovered (no need for quotes, it DID recover), you start trying to claim that key parts of the article don't matter. And as for "at least one investor" quitting... I own Activision/Blizzard stock: does that mean that when I quit WoW it's because "the game SUCKS SO BAD"?
Bottom line is that old boy just made himself $26 million richer (well... $26 million minus what he originally paid, taxes, etc, etc, but since you obviously don't understand how this stuff works, I'm not gonna try to confuse you more), and SE's completely and totally unaffected by his tantrum.
Who cares what his cost basis was? Again, it's irrelevant whether he made money from selling it or lost money. The point is the SE has really gone off the deep end lately in terms of customer relations and shareholder relations.
The cost basis is the only thing that does matter here, because the only outcome of the story is that the guy sold stock, so the only news is how much he made/lost. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but SE didn't lose anything on this. As for shareholder relations, the guy didn't even give them a chance to make it right. He threw the financial equivalent of a temper tantrum. "WAAAH!! You didn't make the game I wanted, so I'm taking my ball and going home!" They've acknowledged flaws, they're planning to fix them, they want to keep people happy. But you can't please everyone all the time, and so if this guy wants to sell his stock, more power to him. Given that the plunge in the stock price didn't stick around, this really has no relevance whatsoever. If the price dropped and stayed down, that would be an indication that the company was affected by this. It didn't. They weren't.
Now Ostermei, tell me where were you earlier in this thread when others were complaining about the UI and other problems with the game? Why do you have to be such a silly goose to me? Plenty of other people here have been polite and engaged in reasonable debate, but you're just hostile from the get-go...
I was busy playing the game because I'm able to look past such things and find enjoyment in it. I'm sorry if you aren't able to do so. I'm not going to defend the laggy UI and various other issues. They're real. They exist. SE's said they're planning to fix them. And I have to be "such a silly goose" to you because I can't resist tearing down the strawman you built up. You routinely come in here and just bash away at the game (as is your right... notice I haven't gone after any of your earlier posts where you were making valid points per your opinion), but when you start posting articles, completely misinterpreting them, and smugly conclude that such a thing has any lasting relevance to the game or the company at hand... I have to set you straight.
Simply not true. A Stock Certificate is a contractual relationship between the corporation and the shareholder. As such the corporation is obligated to honor the stock certificate at current market values. If others came by later and bought up the stock (even SE) then it's possible the stock could have recovered. That article doesn't mention it. Haven't you ever heard of corporations "Buying back" their own stock?
Actually Ostermei is right on this one. A corporation by definition does not need to have any contractual obligation to rebuy their own stock. Now, its possible to include such statements in the business "articles of incorporation." However, no true entrepeneur in their right mind would ever include such statements in their articles when they founded the business. This is because it creates a liability for them, which defeats the entire purpose of having a corporation to begin with.
Corporations do "buy back" their own stock. However, usually this is because investors jumping ship, are willing to sell below the market value in order to get rid of it as quickly as possible. If an investor should hold onto the stock as it continues to drop(if it is on such a descending path), the investor could wind up losing more money.
This is why many times, you see corporations buying back stock. Some investors want out, while others in the corporation believe they can recover. Most will undermarket the stocks, but a savvy investor can manage to get it back for the current market value.
Lets put it in a very rudimentary mathematical scenario with a good and bad situation:
Good Scenario:
Investor A purchases 1million shares at $10 per share. Total cost $10million.
The price per share raises in market value until it reaches $20 per share. Investor decides he wants to make a nice sum of money and sells his shares, acquiring $20million. (plus whatever money he may have made from the initial investment until sale of shares.)
There are things like taxes, ways to deduct said tax, etc. That will ultimately determine his overall profit from the investment...but you can be sure its a hefty sum.
(Now this is a perfect scenario, usually as the price raises it can become harder to sell stocks because others will expect price per share to drop, and a large majority of investors simply buy and sell stock as their primary practice of acquiring capital.)
In THIS scenario. The INVESTOR is the WINNER and the corporation is the LOSER. (strange I know, but its correct.)
Bad Scenario:
Investor B purchases 1million shares at $10 per share. Total cost $10million.
After several years of small increases and decreases in stock, something horrible happens and the Price per share descends rapidly. The Investor fears he will lose all the money from the initial investment and wants to jumpship so he sells all the shares to recover whatever he can. Lets assume its at $5 per share.
He has two options: sell to others, or sell to the company.
Those inside the company certainly will not complain. If he sells them the shares, then they made $5million in based off his initial investment as opposed to the other way around. While they may end up losing $5million to pay the investor, they have regained a large amount of control and potential income for the other shareholders.
While it may seem like the Investor is the winner in this second scenario it is in fact the opposite. Under this scenario the investor is ALWAYS the LOSER, and the corporation is the WINNER(if you can truly call it that given the circumstances).
I'm assuming people who troll this game are not members of WANG? I'm looking for an invite.
We'd be glad to have you! However, in the spirit of full disclosure, I must tell you that SE reduced the price of FF1 and FF2 from $9.99 to $3.99 in the itunes store from September 29 to October 5. If you can look past this portent of doom you can join us in WANG, where we are not having any fun at all.
I would invest in the stock market, but I can't find the orb colors on CNN Money. I have a foolproof strategy once I do that will elevate me above all you poor people:
OK, this is actually funny enough to make reading through the rest of that bullshit worth it.
That, and the sweet irony of the guy named DisgruntledCapitalist being so utterly wrong about stockmarket mechanics.
Now, to be fair, he wasn't ENTIRELY wrong... he just was misapplying the knowledge that he has. Nothin' wrong with that, it just means we gotta step in and help him understand.
The magical thing about the Penny Arcade forum is that we all get along in the end.
Or our bodies are fed to the pigs.
Despite reassurances I remain terrified of this game and the prospect that my buddies want me to play it with them. Terrified. The stories make it out to be some kind of non-euclidean horror. I can't shake the feeling that they've been taken by the experience and somehow twisted into creatures that are at once men and something else.
The magical thing about the Penny Arcade forum is that we all get along in the end.
Or our bodies are fed to the pigs.
Despite reassurances I remain terrified of this game and the prospect that my buddies want me to play it with them. Terrified. The stories make it out to be some kind of non-euclidean horror. I can't shake the feeling that they've been taken by the experience and somehow twisted into creatures that are at once men and something else.
Fuck them, roll on Wutai with the WANGs. This thread is littered with the sullen shambles of those whose friends hauled 'em onto some other server, couldn't hack it, and abandoned them. To be honest, as much as I generally prefer solo'ing (and single-player games in general), this game wouldn't be anywhere close to as fun as it is without the WANGs. I like the mechanics of the game. A lot. But I wouldn't have been able to progress anything LIKE as far or as fast as I have without the awesome commie collective we've got going here. I generally get my smithin' mats/crystals for free and in turn I'll repair/make anything you need so long as I have the skill and the mats can be scrounged up (most blacksmith stuff I tend to already have on hand anyway).
Anyway, point being that there's no reason to be scared off, you're posting here, so you've got support if you need/want it.
Also look at it this way: The game costs $50, if that's a "thing" for you, you probably won't buy it anyway. If it is not a "thing" for you, you will probably not miss it and will still have 60 days to play to decide if you enjoy the game or not.
Please note, 60 days of free play only lasts until the 25th of October, if you register after then you will not get it. This is not an attempt to apply time-sensitive pressure.
I'm not going to defend the laggy UI and various other issues. They're real. They exist. SE's said they're planning to fix them. And I have to be "such a silly goose" to you because I can't resist tearing down the strawman you built up.
What strawman? I came in here and posted a link to an article, expecting some discussion of said article, instead you launched a personal attack against me.
You routinely come in here and just bash away at the game (as is your right... notice I haven't gone after any of your earlier posts where you were making valid points per your opinion),
Thank you for acknowledging I make "valid points", however I never had any problem with you in the prior thread, now you pretend like I've been attacking you this entire time. Do you have multiple alts or something? I have no idea who you are other than you immediately insulting me after I post.
but when you start posting articles, completely misinterpreting them, and smugly conclude that such a thing has any lasting relevance to the game or the company at hand... I have to set you straight.
Sensitive much? I said "yikes" followed by the statement which you and LordPookums so adroitly refuted. I never made the "smug conclusion" about the company at hand, you just assumed that from what I said and immediately started your post with a troll accusation. Meanwhile your response was filled with insults while LordPookums instead had a nice example with no personal attacks.
I've been reading some of the other MMO threads, and all their games look like poop from a butt :P
I know it's not a fair comparison, some of these games are much older. The art style of XIV just really does it for me.
Our little commie collective is rad. Yesterday, I got a message from Ex saying "we can make a bow for you, I gave mats to JW, you just need to get him x and y". I was really excited, and when I log in to the game I get a message from JW saying he found x and y himself and the bow is made. He delivers it to me and no gil changes hands
I'm not going to defend the laggy UI and various other issues. They're real. They exist. SE's said they're planning to fix them. And I have to be "such a silly goose" to you because I can't resist tearing down the strawman you built up.
What strawman? I came in here and posted a link to an article, expecting some discussion of said article, instead you launched a personal attack against me.
You routinely come in here and just bash away at the game (as is your right... notice I haven't gone after any of your earlier posts where you were making valid points per your opinion),
Thank you for acknowledging I make "valid points", however I never had any problem with you in the prior thread, now you pretend like I've been attacking you this entire time. Do you have multiple alts or something? I have no idea who you are other than you immediately insulting me after I post.
but when you start posting articles, completely misinterpreting them, and smugly conclude that such a thing has any lasting relevance to the game or the company at hand... I have to set you straight.
Sensitive much? I said "yikes" followed by the statement which you and LordPookums so adroitly refuted. I never made the "smug conclusion" about the company at hand, you just assumed that from what I said and immediately started your post with a troll accusation. Meanwhile your response was filled with insults while LordPookums instead had a nice example with no personal attacks.
I was perfectly reasonable. You're just touchy because I spoiled your smug little superiorty troll.
Calling me a troll is hardly reasonable and in fact is the only reason I've been wasting hours of my life responding to you.
EDIT: To all those making fun of my name: Of COURSE I don't understand much about the stock market. I'm a "disrupted" capitalist.
^ = "blah blah blah i'm a douche."
THAT is a personal attack. I did no such thing, I merely pointed out some things you didn't understand and called you out on trolling, which is what you were doing: posting irrelevant information in a thread trying to get a rise out of people. That's simply stating a fact.
Anyway, if you wanna keep fucking around with all this, be my guest, but I've already knocked all your arguments down, I'm done with this. If you want to discuss the game, let's discuss the game, but this is just getting stupid.
What's Linkshell membership at right now? I'm spending some time on my Lalafell, and have considered him WANG'ing. If it's full, that's fine - I'll wait until the next reset.
May even 'transfer' fully over to him in the future. I'm just having terrible bouts of indecision regarding whether I'd rather be a fairly plain, neutral-looking Hyur, or a somewhat more unconventional figure in the form of a bearded Lalafell. I have to say, FFXIV really makes each race capable of looking extremely good, as well as making it difficult for them to look bad.
THAT is a personal attack. I did no such thing, I merely pointed out some things you didn't understand and called you out on trolling, which is what you were doing: posting irrelevant information in a thread trying to get a rise out of people. That's simply stating a fact.
I was never trying to get a rise out of people, that's what's driving me so nuts. I posted that article, because
I logged into Steam today and saw it on my headlines.
It surprised me.
I wondered what others thought about it
I posted the link to the article.
I was hoping people (as a few have) would come and say, "aw man, that investor doesn't know what he's talking about. We have fun doing a, b, c and you should come join us!"
Instead I get called a Troll. Which IS a personal attack. (Isn't it? I always thought it was.)
Anyway, if you wanna keep fucking around with all this, be my guest, but I've already knocked all your arguments down, I'm done with this. If you want to discuss the game, let's discuss the game, but this is just getting stupid.
Please. Can you tell me about what you guys are doing these days? I'm curious. I'd really LIKE to like the game but so far I've had trouble playing it. I'm really not trying to be a troll. I want know what the current state of the game is. Have they made more patches recently to address some of the problems? Etc. etc. etc.
DisruptedCapitalist on
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
What's Linkshell membership at right now? I'm spending some time on my Lalafell, and have considered him WANG'ing. If it's full, that's fine - I'll wait until the next reset.
May even 'transfer' fully over to him in the future. I'm just having terrible bouts of indecision regarding whether I'd rather be a fairly plain, neutral-looking Hyur, or a somewhat more unconventional figure in the form of a bearded Lalafell. I have to say, FFXIV really makes each race capable of looking extremely good, as well as making it difficult for them to look bad.
One word.
Subligar.
In regards to y our question i'm pretty sure there is still room. I'm in Gridania at the moment so if you are near there I can shoot you an invite.
Delphinidaes on
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
THAT is a personal attack. I did no such thing, I merely pointed out some things you didn't understand and called you out on trolling, which is what you were doing: posting irrelevant information in a thread trying to get a rise out of people. That's simply stating a fact.
I was never trying to get a rise out of people, that's what's driving me so nuts. I posted that article, because
I logged into Steam today and saw it on my headlines.
It surprised me.
I wondered what others thought about it
I posted the link to the article.
I was hoping people (as a few have) would come and say, "aw man, that investor doesn't know what he's talking about. We have fun doing a, b, c and you should come join us!"
Instead I get called a Troll. Which IS a personal attack. (Isn't it? I always thought it was.)
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I didn't mean for it to be an attack on you, personally. I did see that specific post as being troll-ish and that's what I was going after. Not you as a person, just the act of bringing this up in light of what I recall of previous posts of yours where you have shown a bias against the game. If I read this all wrong, then mea culpa.
Anyway, if you wanna keep fucking around with all this, be my guest, but I've already knocked all your arguments down, I'm done with this. If you want to discuss the game, let's discuss the game, but this is just getting stupid.
Please. Can you tell me about what you guys are doing these days? I'm curious. I'd really LIKE to like the game but so far I've had trouble playing it. I'm really not trying to be a troll. I want know what the current state of the game is. Have they made more patches recently to address some of the problems? Etc. etc. etc.
Absolutely, yes! Well, I can speak for myself, of course, not necessarily others. They have started addressing issues, beginning with the hardware mouse implementation at launch continuing up through fixing the chat-window-closing-while-crafting/shopping bug and the (hopefully first of many) overhaul of the retainer wards. I've been spending most of my time ranking up my Blacksmith and Armorsmith skills and just started in on Weaver last night (my next BSM hammer requires r21 BSM/r15 WVR, although word is it's been done with as low as r10 WVR, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed). Been doing relatively less work with my Pugilist, but we have found a rather secluded island for grinding battle classes around r15-r18 (correct me if I'm wrong, errbuddy), which I've been partaking of.
The main aspect of fun here, though, really comes from interaction with the LS. Everyone chatting, sharing tips, working together (teleporting each other, carrying goods from one member to the next to circumvent the lack of a mail system, sharing shards/crystals/mats/finished goods), etc. Notice I haven't really mentioned anything in particular about the hand-crafted content. Because it IS a valid concern that there's not a huge amount of it, at least not that I've come across so far. There are the leves, there are the story quests, and I have enjoyed them all so far... But against my norm (see prior posts where I've mentioned that I usually prefer solo gaming), the community is the thing here. So if that's a concern, if you want lots and lots of hand-crafted content, well... YMMV
Thanks Ostermei. I'm sorry I got in such a huff about the prior post. Cheers!
EDIT: Oh, and I guess my problem before was that I jumped in to defend others from attack only to get attacked myself. I really don't have a problem with the game although admittedly I haven't bothered to play much lately. Perhaps with a more active LS I might have more fun.
DisruptedCapitalist on
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
Thanks Ostermei. I'm sorry I got in such a huff about the prior post. Cheers!
EDIT: Oh, and I guess my problem before was that I jumped in to defend others from attack only to get attacked myself. I really don't have a problem with the game although admittedly I haven't bothered to play much lately. Perhaps with a more active LS I might have more fun.
Well roll up on Wutai (if you're not already)... We'll do what we can to help you enjoy it
Posts
Yikes. Apparently 1% amounts to $26 million that Squeenix had to pay the Japanese investor.
Nice troll. Yes, I recognize it as such but am still going to bite.
We understand you don't like the game, but if you actually read that article, you'll notice that the guy sold his stock which was worth an estimated $26 million, not that "Squeenix had to pay" him that amount. Do you even understand how stocks work? He sold it to individuals who were eager to purchase it; SE had absolutely nothing to do with the transaction. You can't sell stock (just like anything else) if nobody wants it. Now, his flooding of the market with SE stock did cause prices to decrease (as will happen whenever you flood a market with massive quantities of an item), but according to the article, "Square Enix’s share prices recovered within the day." indicating that there was no appreciable effect from it.
Bottom line is that old boy just made himself $26 million richer (well... $26 million minus what he originally paid, taxes, etc, etc, but since you obviously don't understand how this stuff works, I'm not gonna try to confuse you more), and SE's completely and totally unaffected by his tantrum.
Saying this as someone who finally /ragequit FFXI after playing it for too long and also hates the hell out of FFXIV in it's current "Most Disappointing Game of the Year Edition" form, S-E really doesn't deserve that sort of random sniping from gaming news sites.
They're doing plenty wrong without having to try and spin something only kinda related to them as bad news.
As a matter of fact I do, here are some definitions of stock, that you can educate yourself with:
This means that every stock owner owns a piece of the corporation. When they sell it, who's money does it come from? (Hint, NOT other investors.)
Simply not true. A Stock Certificate is a contractual relationship between the corporation and the shareholder. As such the corporation is obligated to honor the stock certificate at current market values. If others came by later and bought up the stock (even SE) then it's possible the stock could have recovered. That article doesn't mention it. Haven't you ever heard of corporations "Buying back" their own stock?
That wasn't my point, my point was that the game SUCKS SO BAD THAT AT LEAST ONE INVESTOR QUIT. Stock prices fluxuate all the time so it's irrelevant that their stock "recovered" by the end of the day.
Who cares what his cost basis was? Again, it's irrelevant whether he made money from selling it or lost money. The point is the SE has really gone off the deep end lately in terms of customer relations and shareholder relations.
Now Ostermei, tell me where were you earlier in this thread when others were complaining about the UI and other problems with the game? Why do you have to be such a silly goose to me? Plenty of other people here have been polite and engaged in reasonable debate, but you're just hostile from the get-go...
EDIT: See that Osermei? Kashi had a good rebuttal, and even was reasonable to boot. You could learn something.
Hay guize how about that stock?
*crickets*
/facepalm
I hear a lot of hate about this fatigue system. SE should have named it something positive (i.e. Rest).
Now for my complaints. The UI is incredibly laggy. It takes entirely too long to load a shop! Also, having to restart the game several times to make sure graphics settings are correct is a pain. Finally, crafting failures. I hate crafting +3 Gloves of Fuckawesomeness without trying, only to fail when smelting copper.
So far, I can see myself staying subscribed after the 60-day trial. It's a good change compared to my endgame rush in WoW.
The Raid
Actually, YES, from other investors. Because unless the company is buying back their own stock (which you mention below), which is a relative rarity, selling stock is a transaction between investors (with a brokerage in the middle, more often than not, but let's not get bogged down in the details). Yes, stock signifies ownership in a company, but if I buy 1% of a company and don't want it anymore and tell my broker "sell this for me," they're going to sell it to another investor who told his/her brokerage "buy this for me," not the company itself. How do you think their stock price recovered in the same day, if there weren't other investors buying it up? You seriously think that the price would go UP if SE was frantically scrambling to buy back their own stock?
As a matter of fact, I HAVE heard of corporations buying back their own stock, in fact, I've been on both sides of stock buybacks, helping to administer one and being offered the opportunity to sell back stock I own to a company which was going through a buy-back process. This isn't that. If it were that, don't you think the article itself would have mentioned that SE was throwing their own money at this guy to try to keep things in order? Can you think of any reason why there wasn't even a hint of that in the article? Think hard, now.
See, now you're just backpedalling on your point. You threw this out there thinking that it was a horrible condemnation of SE's game that they had to pay all this money to this guy and they're gonna be hosed because of it, but when I point out that SE itself is absolutely no worse off at the end of the day because their stock price recovered (no need for quotes, it DID recover), you start trying to claim that key parts of the article don't matter. And as for "at least one investor" quitting... I own Activision/Blizzard stock: does that mean that when I quit WoW it's because "the game SUCKS SO BAD"?
The cost basis is the only thing that does matter here, because the only outcome of the story is that the guy sold stock, so the only news is how much he made/lost. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but SE didn't lose anything on this. As for shareholder relations, the guy didn't even give them a chance to make it right. He threw the financial equivalent of a temper tantrum. "WAAAH!! You didn't make the game I wanted, so I'm taking my ball and going home!" They've acknowledged flaws, they're planning to fix them, they want to keep people happy. But you can't please everyone all the time, and so if this guy wants to sell his stock, more power to him. Given that the plunge in the stock price didn't stick around, this really has no relevance whatsoever. If the price dropped and stayed down, that would be an indication that the company was affected by this. It didn't. They weren't.
I was busy playing the game because I'm able to look past such things and find enjoyment in it. I'm sorry if you aren't able to do so. I'm not going to defend the laggy UI and various other issues. They're real. They exist. SE's said they're planning to fix them. And I have to be "such a silly goose" to you because I can't resist tearing down the strawman you built up. You routinely come in here and just bash away at the game (as is your right... notice I haven't gone after any of your earlier posts where you were making valid points per your opinion), but when you start posting articles, completely misinterpreting them, and smugly conclude that such a thing has any lasting relevance to the game or the company at hand... I have to set you straight.
I was perfectly reasonable. You're just touchy because I spoiled your smug little superiorty troll.
Picture Me Rollin'
The Raid
Actually Ostermei is right on this one. A corporation by definition does not need to have any contractual obligation to rebuy their own stock. Now, its possible to include such statements in the business "articles of incorporation." However, no true entrepeneur in their right mind would ever include such statements in their articles when they founded the business. This is because it creates a liability for them, which defeats the entire purpose of having a corporation to begin with.
Corporations do "buy back" their own stock. However, usually this is because investors jumping ship, are willing to sell below the market value in order to get rid of it as quickly as possible. If an investor should hold onto the stock as it continues to drop(if it is on such a descending path), the investor could wind up losing more money.
This is why many times, you see corporations buying back stock. Some investors want out, while others in the corporation believe they can recover. Most will undermarket the stocks, but a savvy investor can manage to get it back for the current market value.
Lets put it in a very rudimentary mathematical scenario with a good and bad situation:
Good Scenario:
Investor A purchases 1million shares at $10 per share. Total cost $10million.
The price per share raises in market value until it reaches $20 per share. Investor decides he wants to make a nice sum of money and sells his shares, acquiring $20million. (plus whatever money he may have made from the initial investment until sale of shares.)
There are things like taxes, ways to deduct said tax, etc. That will ultimately determine his overall profit from the investment...but you can be sure its a hefty sum.
(Now this is a perfect scenario, usually as the price raises it can become harder to sell stocks because others will expect price per share to drop, and a large majority of investors simply buy and sell stock as their primary practice of acquiring capital.)
In THIS scenario. The INVESTOR is the WINNER and the corporation is the LOSER. (strange I know, but its correct.)
Bad Scenario:
Investor B purchases 1million shares at $10 per share. Total cost $10million.
After several years of small increases and decreases in stock, something horrible happens and the Price per share descends rapidly. The Investor fears he will lose all the money from the initial investment and wants to jumpship so he sells all the shares to recover whatever he can. Lets assume its at $5 per share.
He has two options: sell to others, or sell to the company.
Those inside the company certainly will not complain. If he sells them the shares, then they made $5million in based off his initial investment as opposed to the other way around. While they may end up losing $5million to pay the investor, they have regained a large amount of control and potential income for the other shareholders.
While it may seem like the Investor is the winner in this second scenario it is in fact the opposite. Under this scenario the investor is ALWAYS the LOSER, and the corporation is the WINNER(if you can truly call it that given the circumstances).
We'd be glad to have you! However, in the spirit of full disclosure, I must tell you that SE reduced the price of FF1 and FF2 from $9.99 to $3.99 in the itunes store from September 29 to October 5. If you can look past this portent of doom you can join us in WANG, where we are not having any fun at all.
Go go gadget financialin' face!
Is it really all that surprising.
Statement. Not question.
Picture Me Rollin'
Picture Me Rollin'
OK, this is actually funny enough to make reading through the rest of that bullshit worth it.
That, and the sweet irony of the guy named DisgruntledCapitalist being so utterly wrong about stockmarket mechanics.
SC2: KillerCodeMk | LoL: KillerCodeMonky | FFXIV: Shea Demvas (Sargantas)
Ghost in the Linkshell Item Requisitioning
Let me know you are from PA, otherwise I will likely ignore you.
Now, to be fair, he wasn't ENTIRELY wrong... he just was misapplying the knowledge that he has. Nothin' wrong with that, it just means we gotta step in and help him understand.
Or our bodies are fed to the pigs.
Despite reassurances I remain terrified of this game and the prospect that my buddies want me to play it with them. Terrified. The stories make it out to be some kind of non-euclidean horror. I can't shake the feeling that they've been taken by the experience and somehow twisted into creatures that are at once men and something else.
Fuck them, roll on Wutai with the WANGs. This thread is littered with the sullen shambles of those whose friends hauled 'em onto some other server, couldn't hack it, and abandoned them. To be honest, as much as I generally prefer solo'ing (and single-player games in general), this game wouldn't be anywhere close to as fun as it is without the WANGs. I like the mechanics of the game. A lot. But I wouldn't have been able to progress anything LIKE as far or as fast as I have without the awesome commie collective we've got going here. I generally get my smithin' mats/crystals for free and in turn I'll repair/make anything you need so long as I have the skill and the mats can be scrounged up (most blacksmith stuff I tend to already have on hand anyway).
Anyway, point being that there's no reason to be scared off, you're posting here, so you've got support if you need/want it.
tl;dr:
Please note, 60 days of free play only lasts until the 25th of October, if you register after then you will not get it. This is not an attempt to apply time-sensitive pressure.
Picture Me Rollin'
What strawman? I came in here and posted a link to an article, expecting some discussion of said article, instead you launched a personal attack against me.
Thank you for acknowledging I make "valid points", however I never had any problem with you in the prior thread, now you pretend like I've been attacking you this entire time. Do you have multiple alts or something? I have no idea who you are other than you immediately insulting me after I post.
Sensitive much? I said "yikes" followed by the statement which you and LordPookums so adroitly refuted. I never made the "smug conclusion" about the company at hand, you just assumed that from what I said and immediately started your post with a troll accusation. Meanwhile your response was filled with insults while LordPookums instead had a nice example with no personal attacks.
Calling me a troll is hardly reasonable and in fact is the only reason I've been wasting hours of my life responding to you.
EDIT: To all those making fun of my name: Of COURSE I don't understand much about the stock market. I'm a "disrupted" capitalist.
I know it's not a fair comparison, some of these games are much older. The art style of XIV just really does it for me.
Our little commie collective is rad. Yesterday, I got a message from Ex saying "we can make a bow for you, I gave mats to JW, you just need to get him x and y". I was really excited, and when I log in to the game I get a message from JW saying he found x and y himself and the bow is made. He delivers it to me and no gil changes hands
^ = "blah blah blah i'm a douche."
THAT is a personal attack. I did no such thing, I merely pointed out some things you didn't understand and called you out on trolling, which is what you were doing: posting irrelevant information in a thread trying to get a rise out of people. That's simply stating a fact.
Anyway, if you wanna keep fucking around with all this, be my guest, but I've already knocked all your arguments down, I'm done with this. If you want to discuss the game, let's discuss the game, but this is just getting stupid.
May even 'transfer' fully over to him in the future. I'm just having terrible bouts of indecision regarding whether I'd rather be a fairly plain, neutral-looking Hyur, or a somewhat more unconventional figure in the form of a bearded Lalafell. I have to say, FFXIV really makes each race capable of looking extremely good, as well as making it difficult for them to look bad.
I was never trying to get a rise out of people, that's what's driving me so nuts. I posted that article, because
I was hoping people (as a few have) would come and say, "aw man, that investor doesn't know what he's talking about. We have fun doing a, b, c and you should come join us!"
Instead I get called a Troll. Which IS a personal attack. (Isn't it? I always thought it was.)
Please. Can you tell me about what you guys are doing these days? I'm curious. I'd really LIKE to like the game but so far I've had trouble playing it. I'm really not trying to be a troll. I want know what the current state of the game is. Have they made more patches recently to address some of the problems? Etc. etc. etc.
One word.
Subligar.
In regards to y our question i'm pretty sure there is still room. I'm in Gridania at the moment so if you are near there I can shoot you an invite.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
I just logged out in Limsa, so I'll see who is around shortly. Failing that, I expect to head to at least Ul'Dah later on.
I'm actually in Limsa now. In the Adventurer's guild. What is your characters name?
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I didn't mean for it to be an attack on you, personally. I did see that specific post as being troll-ish and that's what I was going after. Not you as a person, just the act of bringing this up in light of what I recall of previous posts of yours where you have shown a bias against the game. If I read this all wrong, then mea culpa.
Absolutely, yes! Well, I can speak for myself, of course, not necessarily others. They have started addressing issues, beginning with the hardware mouse implementation at launch continuing up through fixing the chat-window-closing-while-crafting/shopping bug and the (hopefully first of many) overhaul of the retainer wards. I've been spending most of my time ranking up my Blacksmith and Armorsmith skills and just started in on Weaver last night (my next BSM hammer requires r21 BSM/r15 WVR, although word is it's been done with as low as r10 WVR, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed). Been doing relatively less work with my Pugilist, but we have found a rather secluded island for grinding battle classes around r15-r18 (correct me if I'm wrong, errbuddy), which I've been partaking of.
The main aspect of fun here, though, really comes from interaction with the LS. Everyone chatting, sharing tips, working together (teleporting each other, carrying goods from one member to the next to circumvent the lack of a mail system, sharing shards/crystals/mats/finished goods), etc. Notice I haven't really mentioned anything in particular about the hand-crafted content. Because it IS a valid concern that there's not a huge amount of it, at least not that I've come across so far. There are the leves, there are the story quests, and I have enjoyed them all so far... But against my norm (see prior posts where I've mentioned that I usually prefer solo gaming), the community is the thing here. So if that's a concern, if you want lots and lots of hand-crafted content, well... YMMV
EDIT: Oh, and I guess my problem before was that I jumped in to defend others from attack only to get attacked myself. I really don't have a problem with the game although admittedly I haven't bothered to play much lately. Perhaps with a more active LS I might have more fun.
Well roll up on Wutai (if you're not already)... We'll do what we can to help you enjoy it
Nuts, just back on in LL now - Caleb Larue, if you happen to be around!
Hey Monza, you want some Iron Sand? I gots some good iron Sands over here...how about a stack of Iron ore or two? It'll treat you right.
Gally you know you want this Silver Sand, and look at this sweet Silver Ore +1 stack I have just for you, come on take a hit!
Delphi let's load you up with all these fine gems, I know your inventory is hurting but come on just one more gem will be ok.
Rathiain, I know you say you don't have room for this Iron but your eyes are telling me yes you do. Just do it, one more stack of iron won't hurt.
I have discovered new class in FFXIV, pusher and am now rank 20.
All I need is a nice purple mining outfit with some of those leopard print boots/belt thingy the ferryman has and I'll be set for life.
That is probably the most accurate summation of my playtime on FFXIV to date that I could possibly hope for.
SC2: KillerCodeMk | LoL: KillerCodeMonky | FFXIV: Shea Demvas (Sargantas)
Ghost in the Linkshell Item Requisitioning
Let me know you are from PA, otherwise I will likely ignore you.