Wait you can tell people's lvls at champion select?
Also, playing as Panth against free-to-play Panths just makes me
so happy
edit: Also, Myrmidon Pantheon worth getting? The champion portrait is so baller but in-game it's just an ugly-ish yellow instead of gloriously oiled gold.
this
i am all like
eat my spear booyah
edit: no it is not worth it, it's really all about the naked pantheon (ruthless)
Ruthless panth just looks so... odd. I demand moar Pantheon skins!
And moar Teemo skins!
Moogle Teemo anyone?
Eddy on
"and the morning stars I have seen
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
I'm not comfortable doing the whole jungle thing. I'm only level 22 right now (which is closer to 30 than say level 12) but I also do not have any worthwhile Tier 3 runes yet either. I also do not really plan on playing ranked.
Which HP Quint? I assume the one based on level?
You can start jungling at 20, since that's deep enough to get 2/2 Buff duration from Utility and at least a couple points into reduce damage from minions. Flat HP quints and some flat armor yellows really help, though.
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
All I have to say is that it is incredibly amusing firstblooding Eve at 1 when the enemy team failed a gank at your jungler, then using the gold from that to immediately go back and get a pink ward and fuck her laning for the rest of the game.
What the fuck is wrong with Riot? I just got put on a team with a 22-26-29-30 vs 21-22-30-30-30
Of course their level 30 Twitch and Kennen rape my team's functionally retarded 20 somethings and we are decimated. Good thing I know people's levels on character select so I can choose characters appropriately.
While it is certainly true that level doesn't equal skill there's no denying that you have more tools at your disposal the higher level you are. The most obvious and biggest example being masteries.
What the fuck is wrong with Riot? I just got put on a team with a 22-26-29-30 vs 21-22-30-30-30
Of course their level 30 Twitch and Kennen rape my team's functionally retarded 20 somethings and we are decimated. Good thing I know people's levels on character select so I can choose characters appropriately.
Level =/= skill
Level = experience, which is very strongly correlated with skill. You're wrong.
While it is certainly true that level doesn't equal skill there's no denying that you have more tools at your disposal the higher level you are. The most obvious and biggest example being masteries.
It's not even that. I have 600 games played or so. I've memorized every champion, jungle creep, item, and the map lay out. I've refined my mastery and runes over dozens of trials and after extensive conversations with other players of similar experience. I've played as many as, say, 200 games, with some of my teammates, so we understand each others' play styles.
The 32 extra HP from the last quint is a partial issue, but the experience gulf between myself and a level 20, especially without extensive MOBA experience, which I have, is huge. Even if they may some day be better than me at LOL, there's an almost 100% chance they aren't better than me now (when I'm playing purely to win. I make no claims about the effectiveness of my jungle Mord, who I may be trying in the next week or so).
Edit: case in point: Milkfat. Even if he is the best player in the world in mere weeks, right now he's doing ridiculous things like purchasing Lichbane on Gangplank. I heard that secondhand so I don't know if he won anyway, but in any case, he could have been more effective with a different item build.
programjunkie on
0
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
Well, let's be precise here, there's a closer gap between a level 20 and a fresh level 30 vs a fresh level 30 and a level 30 who's been playing for a year.
And hell, sometimes 30s who have been playing a year are still fuckawful at this game because they are incapable of learning.
As shen, I've come to realize a few things.
1. I am a better shen then other shens.
2. I am a better protector then most other tanks.
3. If I can be paired with a carry, I can get them kills.
4. None of this matters if every teamfight is 4v5.
Level = experience, which is very strongly correlated with skill. You're wrong.
No u. Strong correlation does not imply equivalence and I said level =/= skill. Extreme case is a player on a smurf, which is low level but high skill. Also see low elo players with 1000+ wins and who knows how many games played. At best, a player's level only describes the number of games played or the amount of time spent playing the game.
Lets say you are right and that levels = skill. Elo is supposed to be a rough gauge of that. Yet there are players with more games played than some of the high Elo players. If levels = experience, you are saying that high elo players have less experience and hence less skill than some idiot who just plays more, which is obviously false. No, wait. The matchmaking system is obviously flawed, amirite?
Also, Spectrum got it right. There are a ton of shitty level 30s that have to play at an advantage in order to have evenly matched games.
Edit: case in point: Milkfat. Even if he is the best player in the world in mere weeks, right now he's doing ridiculous things like purchasing Lichbane on Gangplank. I heard that secondhand so I don't know if he won anyway, but in any case, he could have been more effective with a different item build.
Milkfat is horrible and does not make a good example in any case. Even if you were to ignore his somewhat dubious 'awesome' record at playing professional DotA/HoN, he has never played LoL until a week ago. He is the definition of a newbie and would actually lose to any random level 20ish summoner despite having a level 30 account.
Level = experience, which is very strongly correlated with skill. You're wrong.
No u. Strong correlation does not imply equivalence and I said level =/= skill. Extreme case is a player on a smurf, which is low level but high skill. Also see low elo players with 1000+ wins and who knows how many games played. At best, a player's level only describes the number of games played or the amount of time spent playing the game.
Lets say you are right and that levels = skill. Elo is supposed to be a rough gauge of that. Yet there are players with more games played than some of the high Elo players. If levels = experience, you are saying that high elo players have less experience and hence less skill than some idiot who just plays more, which is obviously false. No, wait. The matchmaking system is obviously flawed, amirite?
Also, Spectrum got it right. There are a ton of shitty level 30s that have to play at an advantage in order to have evenly matched games.
Edit: case in point: Milkfat. Even if he is the best player in the world in mere weeks, right now he's doing ridiculous things like purchasing Lichbane on Gangplank. I heard that secondhand so I don't know if he won anyway, but in any case, he could have been more effective with a different item build.
Milkfat is horrible and does not make a good example in any case. Even if you were to ignore his somewhat dubious 'awesome' record at playing professional DotA/HoN, he has never played LoL until a week ago. He is the definition of a newbie and would actually lose to any random level 20ish summoner despite having a level 30 account.
Look man, it's clear that a good majority of players with more games played have much more experience with the nuances of the game including map awareness, wards and common locations, jungle/dragon importance and timing, proper zoning, attacking and retreating etc. etc. etc. Most will capitalize on this information and use it to play above and beyond someone with a handful (<100) wins under their belt. If you want to wave your silly goose nozzle around and spray your pedantry around feel free, but you're going to look goosier and goosier.
Golf clap for "I've seen people with a ton of games played that are bad." Sure you have. Some. But most of the people I play with are good. I'd say 7/10 each game since we're using anecdotal evidence as data. Now those 3 shitty ones can ruin the game, and they stick in your mind, but you never think about the 6 other people that know what they're doing.
Your remark about Milkfat is as close to an agreement as I can see from you. He's new, so he's bad. Yeah that's how that works. That's the point.
More editing: I'm not sure about you but for me the transition from the 20's to heavily played 30's was a lot of learning about what heroes are actually effective (Kat used to kill everyone, why can't I kill anyone with her!), what tactics are effective and/or necessary for success (hey no ones jungling, I should get a jungler or it's far more likely that we'll lose!) and enough IP to properly rune for the characters you play most.
TLDR People with more games played have more experience, most of those people capitalize on that experience to become better players
JAEF on
0
Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
I used to do 3's a lot when it was the same IP as 5's. I am no longer IP rich, is it worth farming 3's for IP or is 5's better since they changed the IP?
Yeh I used to exploit the balance and play poppy a lot on it, I'm not sure how the meta on it has changed. I don't find it's meta enjoyable, I only played back then to get IP/wins quickly.
Ranked draft, we end up with Udyr (me), Kennen and Sion on the same team.
You got three guesses as of what the enemy didn't do, and the first two doesn't count. If you need a clue, that game was a clear victory for us.
Also I know we must not talk about him, but in the event that one of your teammate is deluded enough to pick the tank with no CC whatsoever, please, PLEASE make sure you compensate for his design defects. It was just so sad to see a team without a single stun.
Also ALSO!
BAGEL!
I need your Udyr insight, the very best you got to offer on the subject. Stance dancing is awesome, chain stunning is awesome, being an unkillable jackass is awesome too, but this is not enough for me - I must become awesomer at Udyr, and one day surpass you at the master.
Wha? Who are you? You've probably already surpassed me
I'll handily assume you know Udyr fairly well and all that jazz and just post the two tips I can think of that win me games and the praise that strokes my ego so well.
1. Udyr at around level 9-11 is incredibly strong in relation to anyone else and should handily win a 1v1 fight. An Udyr with golem buff at those levels will be a juggernaut of pain. If you fulfill those criteria then get into fights, preferably ones that look like you'll die in! The enemy won't run away half the time and you get an easy kill when it turns out you aren't taking damage for some strange reason. Sure you might die, in fact you'll die a lot. That's part of finding out what fights you can win, and Udyr can win a lot of fights.
2. Hardly anyone expects a 15-16minute baron. If you manage to farm up/gank enough for a Bloodrazor by then you can two or three man baron and no one should bother you. I can count on one hand the number of times the enemy team has warded baron at 15 minutes. I pack a ward and a health potion and plant it in their golem / the bush to the right (if I'm north) so I can see anyone coming to intercept. Again, the sheer strength of Udyr at 9-11 means Baron is fairly doable if you don't get a string of crits.
Well I rambled a fair bit there. Always happy to help and ramble some more. Hopefully we can get some games together as it'll be nice to play with an Udyr who isn't utterly awful.
Yes, the matchmaker is all to blame, Elo hell exists and everyone will remain there and get screwed forever. /sarcasm.
Look man, it's clear that a good majority of players with more games played have much more experience with the nuances of the game......TLDR People with more games played have more experience, most of those people capitalize on that experience to become better players
How is this clear? Are you really trying to tell me that it is clear cut that the more games you play the better player you are compared to someone who doesn't play as much? Playing 24/7 and in 90 days you will get to #1? You highly overestimate the learning abilities of your fellow players. People are stupid, no exceptions.
EDIT: I mean to say that it happens both ways. There are people who play a ton and improve and never play with level 20s again and there people who play a ton and don't improve stay at a low elo and get matched up with level 20s -_-
But most of the people I play with are good.
Yes, everyone wants to believe that and that someone else is at fault when they lose.
This. Browse the thread for the many many many examples of pug idiocy. Many of these players are level 30. Look at the constant blame game that occurs in solo ranked. There are quite a lot of people who do not learn from their experiences.
I think he's a fun solo character just because I have a "nyah nyah you can't kill me pffffffffffffft" and I don't have to rely on teammates to save me if I fuck up
Look man, it's clear that a good majority of players with more games played have much more experience with the nuances of the game......TLDR People with more games played have more experience, most of those people capitalize on that experience to become better players
How is this clear? Are you really trying to tell me that it is clear cut that the more games you play the better player you are compared to someone who doesn't play as much? Playing 24/7 and in 90 days you will get to #1? You highly overestimate the learning abilities of your fellow players. People are stupid, no exceptions.
No. That isn't my argument. You learn by doing. Players who have the ability to learn and improve (not all, as is clear by megabads in all spectrums of queues) need to play a huge amount of games to understand the minutia that are crucial to this game. When should I be aggressive, when should I try for dragon, amumu's ult is definitely not up since he doesn't have blue buff and it hasn't been 2 minutes, all that random little shit that lets you play to the fullest.
To clear out your goosy fucking strawman: No, skill is not directly proportional to games played. Mr. 1000 wins is not better than 300 wins by default. But at the amount of games played for those who are under level 30, they are missing not only the obvious mechnical advantages like proper runes and masteries (a fact which you nicely ignore and was the prime issue of my complaint) but also the larger understanding of finer gameplay mechanics at high levels of play. Even an excellent MOBA player who hasn't played LoL before just needs to play a high amount of games to understand the game.
It's not that higher is better. It's that lower is lacking. Skirt around that point all you want, it's the truth.
But most of the people I play with are good.
Yes, everyone wants to believe that and that someone else is at fault when they lose.
I don't even know what you're trying to say here. It seems like you've already tied the noose, have at it.
And again in regards to "Dur dur look at all the stupid people" it only takes 1-2 megabads to ruin the game for everyone else (and is usually the case for every lopsided game I play outside of straight up bad team comps.) That leaves 7-9 people who are playing well that you don't think about. All you're focusing on is "Man every game there's a bad! Everyone is bad!"
JAEF on
0
Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
Both of you shut up already since you're both right and both wrong
We should talk about whether Mordekaiser is a tank or not. That is a fun topic.
Actually I have a better topic: Champions that are strong against the AoE fuckfest meta. Only ones I can think of right now is Olaf and Jannas
moreso than just champions, its having a team that realizes they are going to get shit upon if they group up that is necessary to beat up aoe fuckfests
I could actually see blitz being ok against team channeled ultimates if he gets off good ultimates but that is like... miss fortune and nunu.
UrQuan may be right that there are plenty of idiots at level 30, but holy hell are the earlier levels filled with people who have no goddamned clue what they're doing.
The number of people I've seen at my level (11) who charge head-on into initiating 1v2 or 1v3 by themselves is staggering. And then they blame the team for sucking when they're at 1/15/2.
Posts
i want to play ezreal so bad
Ruthless panth just looks so... odd.
And moar Teemo skins!
Moogle Teemo anyone?
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
give me 6300 IP, then I will
and Pantheon just gets more power the more naked he gets, go for Ruthless Pantheon
Where's the helpful bus when you need it.
What, that's the best:
Level =/= skill
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
Level = experience, which is very strongly correlated with skill. You're wrong.
Edit:
It's not even that. I have 600 games played or so. I've memorized every champion, jungle creep, item, and the map lay out. I've refined my mastery and runes over dozens of trials and after extensive conversations with other players of similar experience. I've played as many as, say, 200 games, with some of my teammates, so we understand each others' play styles.
The 32 extra HP from the last quint is a partial issue, but the experience gulf between myself and a level 20, especially without extensive MOBA experience, which I have, is huge. Even if they may some day be better than me at LOL, there's an almost 100% chance they aren't better than me now (when I'm playing purely to win. I make no claims about the effectiveness of my jungle Mord, who I may be trying in the next week or so).
Edit: case in point: Milkfat. Even if he is the best player in the world in mere weeks, right now he's doing ridiculous things like purchasing Lichbane on Gangplank. I heard that secondhand so I don't know if he won anyway, but in any case, he could have been more effective with a different item build.
And hell, sometimes 30s who have been playing a year are still fuckawful at this game because they are incapable of learning.
gonna stick with him though, he's a shit ton of fun and very different from other champs.
1. I am a better shen then other shens.
2. I am a better protector then most other tanks.
3. If I can be paired with a carry, I can get them kills.
4. None of this matters if every teamfight is 4v5.
I'm a believer!
(Also an answer to your "Why?")
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
And then I'd use the sash he forced me to buy and Melphite ults me.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
No u. Strong correlation does not imply equivalence and I said level =/= skill. Extreme case is a player on a smurf, which is low level but high skill. Also see low elo players with 1000+ wins and who knows how many games played. At best, a player's level only describes the number of games played or the amount of time spent playing the game.
Lets say you are right and that levels = skill. Elo is supposed to be a rough gauge of that. Yet there are players with more games played than some of the high Elo players. If levels = experience, you are saying that high elo players have less experience and hence less skill than some idiot who just plays more, which is obviously false. No, wait. The matchmaking system is obviously flawed, amirite?
Also, Spectrum got it right. There are a ton of shitty level 30s that have to play at an advantage in order to have evenly matched games.
Milkfat is horrible and does not make a good example in any case. Even if you were to ignore his somewhat dubious 'awesome' record at playing professional DotA/HoN, he has never played LoL until a week ago. He is the definition of a newbie and would actually lose to any random level 20ish summoner despite having a level 30 account.
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
Golf clap for "I've seen people with a ton of games played that are bad." Sure you have. Some. But most of the people I play with are good. I'd say 7/10 each game since we're using anecdotal evidence as data. Now those 3 shitty ones can ruin the game, and they stick in your mind, but you never think about the 6 other people that know what they're doing.
Your remark about Milkfat is as close to an agreement as I can see from you. He's new, so he's bad. Yeah that's how that works. That's the point.
More editing: I'm not sure about you but for me the transition from the 20's to heavily played 30's was a lot of learning about what heroes are actually effective (Kat used to kill everyone, why can't I kill anyone with her!), what tactics are effective and/or necessary for success (hey no ones jungling, I should get a jungler or it's far more likely that we'll lose!) and enough IP to properly rune for the characters you play most.
TLDR People with more games played have more experience, most of those people capitalize on that experience to become better players
Decent in 3s simply because he is an obnoxious laner. Haven't encountered him in 5s yet.
Anyone primarily do 3s? I feel like I'm all alone in this boat
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
Synergy
Wha? Who are you? You've probably already surpassed me
I'll handily assume you know Udyr fairly well and all that jazz and just post the two tips I can think of that win me games and the praise that strokes my ego so well.
1. Udyr at around level 9-11 is incredibly strong in relation to anyone else and should handily win a 1v1 fight. An Udyr with golem buff at those levels will be a juggernaut of pain. If you fulfill those criteria then get into fights, preferably ones that look like you'll die in! The enemy won't run away half the time and you get an easy kill when it turns out you aren't taking damage for some strange reason. Sure you might die, in fact you'll die a lot. That's part of finding out what fights you can win, and Udyr can win a lot of fights.
2. Hardly anyone expects a 15-16minute baron. If you manage to farm up/gank enough for a Bloodrazor by then you can two or three man baron and no one should bother you. I can count on one hand the number of times the enemy team has warded baron at 15 minutes. I pack a ward and a health potion and plant it in their golem / the bush to the right (if I'm north) so I can see anyone coming to intercept. Again, the sheer strength of Udyr at 9-11 means Baron is fairly doable if you don't get a string of crits.
Well I rambled a fair bit there. Always happy to help and ramble some more. Hopefully we can get some games together as it'll be nice to play with an Udyr who isn't utterly awful.
Yes, the matchmaker is all to blame, Elo hell exists and everyone will remain there and get screwed forever. /sarcasm.
How is this clear? Are you really trying to tell me that it is clear cut that the more games you play the better player you are compared to someone who doesn't play as much? Playing 24/7 and in 90 days you will get to #1? You highly overestimate the learning abilities of your fellow players. People are stupid, no exceptions.
EDIT: I mean to say that it happens both ways. There are people who play a ton and improve and never play with level 20s again and there people who play a ton and don't improve stay at a low elo and get matched up with level 20s -_-
Yes, everyone wants to believe that and that someone else is at fault when they lose.
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
This pleases me greatly.
This. Browse the thread for the many many many examples of pug idiocy. Many of these players are level 30. Look at the constant blame game that occurs in solo ranked. There are quite a lot of people who do not learn from their experiences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
I know it's probably been posted once or twice already in the thread but I'm lazy this morning
And me as well!
I think he's a fun solo character just because I have a "nyah nyah you can't kill me pffffffffffffft" and I don't have to rely on teammates to save me if I fuck up
Can you still do baron at 11 when it pops as AP shaco?
To clear out your goosy fucking strawman: No, skill is not directly proportional to games played. Mr. 1000 wins is not better than 300 wins by default. But at the amount of games played for those who are under level 30, they are missing not only the obvious mechnical advantages like proper runes and masteries (a fact which you nicely ignore and was the prime issue of my complaint) but also the larger understanding of finer gameplay mechanics at high levels of play. Even an excellent MOBA player who hasn't played LoL before just needs to play a high amount of games to understand the game.
It's not that higher is better. It's that lower is lacking. Skirt around that point all you want, it's the truth.
I don't even know what you're trying to say here. It seems like you've already tied the noose, have at it.
And again in regards to "Dur dur look at all the stupid people" it only takes 1-2 megabads to ruin the game for everyone else (and is usually the case for every lopsided game I play outside of straight up bad team comps.) That leaves 7-9 people who are playing well that you don't think about. All you're focusing on is "Man every game there's a bad! Everyone is bad!"
Actually I have a better topic: Champions that are strong against the AoE fuckfest meta. Only ones I can think of right now is Olaf and Jannas
moreso than just champions, its having a team that realizes they are going to get shit upon if they group up that is necessary to beat up aoe fuckfests
I could actually see blitz being ok against team channeled ultimates if he gets off good ultimates but that is like... miss fortune and nunu.
silence won't stop morgana will it?
The number of people I've seen at my level (11) who charge head-on into initiating 1v2 or 1v3 by themselves is staggering. And then they blame the team for sucking when they're at 1/15/2.