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Pre-Fight Debate Thread: SEMI-FINAL ROUND

245

Posts

  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Furu wrote:
    Doom has the president declare war on Ultron. Before Ultron can do any computer magic he finds himself at odds with some of the greatest heros in the United States who have been beckoned to defend the nation by a quivering and cowering president under Doom's control. If Doom built his own Ultron then he clearly knows the schematics so exploiting technicalities to keep himself safe while everyone else does the work won't be too much of a trouble as long as he doesn't go toe to toe.

    And exactly what keep Ultron from punching Doom's head clean off before then?

    Also Ultron changes himself with every model. Those schematics are so out of date it's ridiculous. He might as well have a schematic of a toaster oven.
    So you're saying that Doom doesn't have any counter measures that could buy him a bit of time from something as simple as a super powered punch?

    DasUberEdward on
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Furu wrote:
    Doom has the president declare war on Ultron. Before Ultron can do any computer magic he finds himself at odds with some of the greatest heros in the United States who have been beckoned to defend the nation by a quivering and cowering president under Doom's control. If Doom built his own Ultron then he clearly knows the schematics so exploiting technicalities to keep himself safe while everyone else does the work won't be too much of a trouble as long as he doesn't go toe to toe.

    And exactly what keep Ultron from punching Doom's head clean off before then?

    Also Ultron changes himself with every model. Those schematics are so out of date it's ridiculous. He might as well have a schematic of a toaster oven.
    So you're saying that Doom doesn't have any counter measures that could buy him a bit of time from something as simple as a super powered punch?

    Not anything that'll do more than bounce off Ultron's force fields or armor.

    Furu on
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Furu wrote:
    Doom has the president declare war on Ultron. Before Ultron can do any computer magic he finds himself at odds with some of the greatest heros in the United States who have been beckoned to defend the nation by a quivering and cowering president under Doom's control. If Doom built his own Ultron then he clearly knows the schematics so exploiting technicalities to keep himself safe while everyone else does the work won't be too much of a trouble as long as he doesn't go toe to toe.

    And exactly what keep Ultron from punching Doom's head clean off before then?

    Also Ultron changes himself with every model. Those schematics are so out of date it's ridiculous. He might as well have a schematic of a toaster oven.
    So you're saying that Doom doesn't have any counter measures that could buy him a bit of time from something as simple as a super powered punch?
    This is one fight were Doom can't pull a Doom. It's pretty much ultra-deadly, psychotic killer robot who fucks up the majority of the Marvel Universe vs. a guy that loses to the Fantastic 4 on a regular basis.


    EDIT: Oh yeah, Nimrod is so fucked.

    PiptheFair on
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    PipTheFair wrote:
    Furu wrote:
    Doom has the president declare war on Ultron. Before Ultron can do any computer magic he finds himself at odds with some of the greatest heros in the United States who have been beckoned to defend the nation by a quivering and cowering president under Doom's control. If Doom built his own Ultron then he clearly knows the schematics so exploiting technicalities to keep himself safe while everyone else does the work won't be too much of a trouble as long as he doesn't go toe to toe.

    And exactly what keep Ultron from punching Doom's head clean off before then?

    Also Ultron changes himself with every model. Those schematics are so out of date it's ridiculous. He might as well have a schematic of a toaster oven.
    So you're saying that Doom doesn't have any counter measures that could buy him a bit of time from something as simple as a super powered punch?
    This is one fight were Doom can't pull a Doom. It's pretty much ultra-deadly, psychotic killer robot who fucks up the majority of the Marvel Universe vs. a guy that loses to the Fantastic 4 on a regular basis.


    EDIT: Oh yeah, Nimrod is so fucked.

    Dude.

    Fucking Galactus loses to the Fantastic Four on a regular basis. They're pretty much the king badasses of Earth.

    Mai-Kero on
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    PipTheFair wrote:
    Furu wrote:
    Doom has the president declare war on Ultron. Before Ultron can do any computer magic he finds himself at odds with some of the greatest heros in the United States who have been beckoned to defend the nation by a quivering and cowering president under Doom's control. If Doom built his own Ultron then he clearly knows the schematics so exploiting technicalities to keep himself safe while everyone else does the work won't be too much of a trouble as long as he doesn't go toe to toe.

    And exactly what keep Ultron from punching Doom's head clean off before then?

    Also Ultron changes himself with every model. Those schematics are so out of date it's ridiculous. He might as well have a schematic of a toaster oven.
    So you're saying that Doom doesn't have any counter measures that could buy him a bit of time from something as simple as a super powered punch?
    This is one fight were Doom can't pull a Doom. It's pretty much ultra-deadly, psychotic killer robot who fucks up the majority of the Marvel Universe vs. a guy that loses to the Fantastic 4 on a regular basis.


    EDIT: Oh yeah, Nimrod is so fucked.

    Dude.

    Fucking Galactus loses to the Fantastic Four on a regular basis. They're pretty much the king badasses of Earth.
    NULLIFIER DOESN'T COUNT

    PiptheFair on
  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    edited January 2007
    Doom loses to the Fantastic Four on a regular basis because Richards is the rock to Doom's scissors.

    DJ Eebs on
  • The_LightbringerThe_Lightbringer Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Doom is basically second in line to the mantle of sorcerer supreme, how much does magic affect ultron?

    The_Lightbringer on
    LuciferSig.jpg
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Doom has the president declare war on Ultron. Before Ultron can do any computer magic he finds himself at odds with some of the greatest heros in the United States who have been beckoned to defend the nation by a quivering and cowering president under Doom's control. If Doom built his own Ultron then he clearly knows the schematics so exploiting technicalities to keep himself safe while everyone else does the work won't be too much of a trouble as long as he doesn't go toe to toe.

    Well see.

    Ultrons kind of done that before.

    The Muffin Man on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Geebs wrote:
    Doom loses to the Fantastic Four on a regular basis because Richards is the rock to Doom's scissors.

    RICHAAAAARDS!

    The Muffin Man on
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Doom is basically second in line to the mantle of sorcerer supreme, how much does magic affect ultron?

    The only thing that bothers him there is Scarlet Witch, and that's not even real magic.

    Furu on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User
    edited January 2007
    I don't agree that Doom would threaten the president into helping him. Doom doesn't need help.

    robosagogo on
  • Cosmic SombreroCosmic Sombrero Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    robosagogo wrote:
    I don't agree that Doom would threaten the president into helping him. Doom doesn't need help.

    Srsly, all of the Dr. Strange/Dr. Doom comic was pretty much "DOOM NEEDS NO ONE!"

    Cosmic Sombrero on
  • JCMJCM Registered User
    edited January 2007
    Didnt Doom sell the soul of the girl he lost his cherry to recently... and gained a magical armour from her skin and unlimited magical powers?

    Or did Marvel already de-power him following that?
    Doctor_Doom_002.jpg

    JCM on
  • NewtronNewtron Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I wanna see Ultron and Nimrod fight.

    re: but loki and doom would be interesting too

    Newtron on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User
    edited January 2007
    Loki beats Nimrod because nobody really knows what the fuck Loki can do aside from the fact that he can't be killed.

    robosagogo on
  • delphinusdelphinus Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    this is dr. doom we're talking about here. Doom. he took a shot from the infinity gauntlet at point blank range.


    dont care what anyone says. Dr. Doom could beat Batman. [and yes batman could be holding the keys to the dolorian and it still wouldnt matter]

    delphinus on
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Except Doom loses all the time.

    Luke Cage beat him! Spider-Man beat him!

    Furu on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Furu wrote:
    Except Doom loses all the time.

    Luke Cage beat him! Spider-Man beat him!

    Only because it furthers Doom's plans and machinations so subtle your puny mind could not comprehend their greatness.

    Fencingsax on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User
    edited January 2007
    Furu wrote:
    Except Doom loses all the time.

    Luke Cage beat him! Spider-Man beat him!
    Ultron will eat a bomb that gives off an electromagnetic pulse if it's shaped like a cookie.

    robosagogo on
  • EdcrabEdcrab Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Yeah, that's pretty much the best superpower in any canon ever.*

    Hindsight infallibility.

    I meant for everything to happen.


    *Does not include things like sundering the multiverse just to darn your socks. Or whatever. Varying levels of omnipotence my arse.

    Edcrab on
    cBY55.gifbmJsl.png
  • Sugar MagnoliaSugar Magnolia Registered User
    edited January 2007
    Furu wrote:
    Except Doom loses all the time.

    Luke Cage beat him! Spider-Man beat him!

    Yeah but he owed Luke Cage money and that is not a man you want to owe money to

    Sugar Magnolia on
    shoop.JPG
  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Two headache scale matches! Regardless of how it ends we have an awesome final match up.

    Ultron is great but Doom is just so much more devious there must be many ways for Doom to trick/fool/surprise Ultron. Maybe if they were locked inside a UFC cage Ultron would win but Doom isn't going to simply trade punches.

    Vote: Doom

    Loki vs Nimrod in the phantom zone... How can Loki not win? It's magic vs super science, a close call but Loki must prevail!

    Doom vs Loki PPV coming up!

    Caveman Paws on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Two headache scale matches! Regardless of how it ends we have an awesome final match up.

    Ultron is great but Doom is just so much more devious there must be many ways for Doom to trick/fool/surprise Ultron. Maybe if they were locked inside a UFC cage Ultron would win but Doom isn't going to simply trade punches.

    Vote: Doom

    Loki vs Nimrod in the phantom zone... How can Loki not win? It's magic vs super science, a close call but Loki must prevail!

    Doom vs Loki PPV coming up!

    No see.

    This is "I take on the Avengers on a regular basis" Ultron.

    The Muffin Man on
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    When I said counter measure for something as simple as a physical punch I didn't mean being able to take the punch. Doom just had to avoid it long enough for his plan to go into action. Considering the sheer number of heros and villians who want what Doom has or simply want to kill him I think he's damn good at avoiding a physical confrontation. This is silly. People are putting Ultron at his best but Doom at a mediocore level of power. Fucking silly.

    DasUberEdward on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Since everyone wants to see both, can we do Nimrod vs Ultron and Doom vs Loki instead?

    Fencingsax on
  • Psychotic OnePsychotic One The Lord of No Pants Parts UnknownRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Doom beat the thing in hand to hand combat according to his wiki and can probably summon an electrical storm in ultron's insides. And push comes to shove he could just use a bullet made of anti-metal and blow Ultron apart. Why is everyone so quick to discount Doom as a contender here?

    Psychotic One on
  • NinjaSquirrelNinjaSquirrel Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Doom and Despero. Despero will crash the Loki vs Nimrod match demanding retribution for his unfair loss to the frost giant and defeat both contenders.

    NinjaSquirrel on
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    When I said counter measure for something as simple as a physical punch I didn't mean being able to take the punch. Doom just had to avoid it long enough for his plan to go into action. Considering the sheer number of heros and villians who want what Doom has or simply want to kill him I think he's damn good at avoiding a physical confrontation. This is silly. People are putting Ultron at his best but Doom at a mediocore level of power. Fucking silly.

    That's because Doom is at his best when fighting on his own terms, either in his country or with a complex plan beforehand. He has neither here.

    Furu on
  • delphinusdelphinus Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Fencingsax wrote:

    Only because it furthers Doom's plans and machinations so subtle your puny mind could not comprehend their greatness.


    Since everyone wants to see both, can we do Nimrod vs Ultron and Doom vs Loki instead?

    you sir need a gold medal

    delphinus on
  • StarcrossStarcross Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I think we should have a fight for 3rd place as well as the final.

    Starcross on
  • MajidahMajidah Registered User
    edited January 2007
    I've hesitated to bring this up since it probably invalidates about 20% of the match ups.

    Many villians and heros derive a substantial portion of their power from their considerable resources--finacial, political, technological etc. In a battle match up, these resources must be considered. Asking Batman, for example, to do battle without his considerable list of contacts and finances is completely equivalent to asking him to do battle without his utility belt. It is also equivalent to asking spiderman to fight with a broken arm, since his resources are mostly physical.

    This means that not only is the actually implemented environment of the Doom's holoprojector world critical (eg. Batman in Gotham vs. Batman in New York), but so is the very nature of the holoprojector itself!

    Let's take the Ultron/Doom fight as an example. Doom has great personal power, but also derives much of his power from his resources. Vic knows this fight will be difficult so he pulls out a cell-phone and calls his aide-de-campe in Latveria. "Scramble the airforce, launch the ICBMs, and give me control of the orbital mind-control lasers." that sort of thing. Unfortunately, there's no signal, or maybe he get's the real Latveria instead of holo-latveria. In any case he cannot access his resources.

    This paradox arises because the holoprojector creates only the environment specified, and many characters derive their power, in part or in whole from their access to material in non-created environments. It is brutally unfair to deny high resource characters access to their powers. It is exactly equivalent to requiring say, Cyclops to fight with a de-activated X-gene. How do we resolve the environment the holoprojector creates with the environments it fails to create?

    Majidah on
  • DraXXXenDraXXXen Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I would not worry about Doom lacking resources, the moment Ultron starts to tear up DC (which he will, find doom AND kill fleshy ones!) he will simply use diplomacy with the current President. Doom will offer to save them all from this robotic villan menace, but he will need all the resources of the state of defense signed over to him NOW, plus it leaves the president owing a dept to Doom.

    At that point the army is called in to distract Ultron for a few minutes while Doom figures a plan out.


    Also, Nimrod is right screwed for this match.

    DraXXXen on
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  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Doom beat the thing in hand to hand combat according to his wiki and can probably summon an electrical storm in ultron's insides. And push comes to shove he could just use a bullet made of anti-metal and blow Ultron apart. Why is everyone so quick to discount Doom as a contender here?

    Ultron is much, much stronger, faster and smarter than the Thing. The Thing's a really good fighter, but Ultron is a better one by virtue of his incredible robot intellect.

    The Thing has physically bested Doom several times, and is generally stronger than Doom.

    Doom doesn't have an anti-metal bullet. Also, one anti-metal bullet is just going to punch right through Ultron and do no significant damage to his insides.

    Ultron has personal armaments that can single-handedly incapacitate even the strongest of Avengers.

    Spectre-x on
  • DoctorErebusDoctorErebus Registered User
    edited January 2007
    While he may not have time to lay a complex, ten-point scheme, I humbly submit that Doom has likely established a number of "sudden giant robot attack" contingencies. Nanobot attacks, portals to hell dimensions, etc. What would be fun is to see him and Ultron both trying to manipulate the US military into attacking their opponent with false transmissions and subterfuge. In the end, though, I've gotta give the win to Doom's diabolical intellect.

    Oh, and Nimrod's done. Loki advances.

    DoctorErebus on
  • RonnieWooWoo!RonnieWooWoo! Registered User
    edited January 2007
    Didn't Doom, during the first Secret Wars, build his own fucking Ultron robot? So wouldn't it be safe to assume that he would know EXACTLY how to stop/break/fuck up an Ultron robot?

    I mean he does have a supergenius intellect, you'd think he'd consider that his Ultron might go apeshit and make sure he knows exactly how to stop it.

    RonnieWooWoo! on
    Woo!
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Didn't Doom, during the first Secret Wars, build his own fucking Ultron robot? So wouldn't it be safe to assume that he would know EXACTLY how to stop/break/fuck up an Ultron robot?

    I mean he does have a supergenius intellect, you'd think he'd consider that his Ultron might go apeshit and make sure he knows exactly how to stop it.

    He would know how to take down that particular version of Ultron. Others have mentioned that Ultron has been upgraded over the years, so im guessing that the version he is up against now is different than the one he built.

    Marathon on
  • TehChowdTehChowd Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Doom's ability to jump from body to body shouldn't be discounted in this fight. It kind of gives him a few thousand extra mans. Also, can't Doom just open a portal to hell and drop Ulltron into it? (If anyone can scan up some of those images where doom is kicking the ass of the FF in his magic armor, that would be great). And even if Doom can't just drop Ultron into hell, can't he shoot him with hellfire or magic beams or something? I mean, magic should be something that can harm his "invulnerable" adamantium body. . .

    And as far as the Nimrod/Loki matchup, can someone explain what's exactly in the phantom zone? I only know it from the movies and cartoons. Is it full of prisoners that Superman couldn't bring himself to kill/are too strong and dangerous to be let free?

    TehChowd on
  • NinjaSquirrelNinjaSquirrel Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Spectre-x wrote:

    Doom doesn't have an anti-metal bullet. Also, one anti-metal bullet is just going to punch right through Ultron and do no significant damage to his insides.

    If it punches through him how is it not doing significant damage to his insides? If you punch a hole through something that includes the insides meaning that section of insides will be missing.

    NinjaSquirrel on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User
    edited January 2007
    Would Doom really want to spend any amount of time in the flabby, syphilitic body of a DC politician, much less inside any of the number of even less remarkable citizens of the city?

    And I'd have thought magic would be less effective on someone without a soul.

    robosagogo on
  • WhippyWhippy Moderator, Admin Emeritus Admin Emeritus
    edited January 2007
    magic is in and of itself an illogical concept, so something designed specifically to be weak to that sort of thing will be going down fast and hard

    Whippy on
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