As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
We're funding a new Acquisitions Incorporated series on Kickstarter right now! Check it out at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pennyarcade/acquisitions-incorporated-the-series-2

Starcraft 2: The Emperor Strikes Back!

1121315171860

Posts

  • EuphoriacEuphoriac Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    After a couple hundred games now, I feel like I need to say this somewhere. If I lose a few games I get super dejected and fearful of playing the ladder and wondering if I've hit the end. When I win a bunch I feel like explaining my execution plans to half strangers like some kind of role model. In either scenario, I can never binge play the ladder for a couple hours, it's so mentally involving that I need to recharge and replan before getting back into another game, not too high on a win or too low on a loss. I'm emotionally tied to a game that I'm below average at, never caring this much for other games I've been far better at. This is just weird to me.

    We could be twins!

    Euphoriac on
  • mEEksamEEksa Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    From what I've seen, Starcraft has some sort of weird tie to your emotional state. Might be something to do with the concentration requires/some kind of adrenaline dump, but I've seen a ton of people here actually afraid to play online in case they lose. I've never seen that kind of reaction with other games so I'm wondering why Crafting Stars is so special.

    mEEksa on
  • SceptreSceptre Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I think it has to do with the 1v1 nature of the game. When you lose, not only is your opponent better at the game, he is better than you. It's just so personal. Most people have no problem diving into team games, because it's so much less stressful and involving. In a team game, you have the safety net of the other person to rely on, as well as having the ability to tell yourself that you lost because your team mate messed up.

    In 1v1, every problem with your game is a direct result of you. You got supply capped. You didn't build enough guys. You didn't scout well enough.

    People don't like having a game reinforce that they aren't good at something.

    Sceptre on
  • schmadsschmads Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Thank you very much for all that analysis! I appreciate it.

    I definitely suffer from the lack of a plan. I think I'm moving upwards in rank only because I have been focusing on macro (which is obviously not bad), but I need to at least give myself a general plan for what to do after the start. Since I don't have a solid plan, any time I actually interact with my opponent, I sort of lose my spot, and tend to just react, which is why I start teching up late (and forget to make SCVs). Of course, this is obvious after you kindly point it out to me!

    I think the wall-in tends to make me think I can't get my army through my own door very smoothly, so I will start rallying them below the ramp, which has burned me before. I guess the fundamental issue is that I don't really know when to move out (no plan!), so I tend to just look at my ball of units until it feels "beefy," and then push. I think using the second scan to get a read on the opponent would help me a lot with seeing where he's going so I don't feel so blind (hell, I'm OP and have scan, why don't I use it!).

    I've seen a lot of people post in these threads about being intimidated by laddering, and I started out the same way. In fact, I played one BW game on battle.net back in the day, and it scared me off of the entire game online (which I had ditched class in highschool to buy on release). In the end, though, you need to take each individual match less seriously. Think of losing a match like dying in Unreal Tournament or Quake 3 Arena or something like that. You don't worry about individual deaths, you just respawn and go on to kick more ass, and the more you play, the more ass you kick, and your kill:death ratio improves over time. While individual matches end up taking a lot more time, and I'll only play a few a night, it's still the same thing overall. If you're not playing in a tournament, then no single match is very significant. Just keep playing, learn from your losses without taking them badly. You're supposed to lose in SC2, just like you're supposed to get headshot in Counter-Strike. It's just part of the game, and you wait for the next round and do your best once again.

    Edit: I still don't find it easy to lose, but I definitely feel better about it than I used to, especially when I really internalized the idea that I'm SUPPOSED to be losing HALF of the time, once I'm ranked properly. The FPS kill:death ratio isn't really a great example now that I think about it, since that implies that you've just gotten better than everyone else on the server, whereas SC2 is about getting placed against people of an equal skill level, so you won't dominate anyone. It's OK to lose! If you never lost, you'd never get any better at the game, because you'd never see what you were doing wrong. That's one reason why I'm avoiding YABOT until I have mastered my fundamentals. Losses teach me much more than wins, generally.

    schmads on
    Battle.net/SC2: Kwisatz.868 | Steam/XBL/PSN/Gamecenter: schmads | BattleTag/D3: Schmads#1144 | Hero Academy & * With Friends: FallenKwisatz | 3DS: 4356-0128-9671
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Euphoriac wrote: »
    After a couple hundred games now, I feel like I need to say this somewhere. If I lose a few games I get super dejected and fearful of playing the ladder and wondering if I've hit the end. When I win a bunch I feel like explaining my execution plans to half strangers like some kind of role model. In either scenario, I can never binge play the ladder for a couple hours, it's so mentally involving that I need to recharge and replan before getting back into another game, not too high on a win or too low on a loss. I'm emotionally tied to a game that I'm below average at, never caring this much for other games I've been far better at. This is just weird to me.

    We could be twins!

    I don't ladder much because of my schedule, but when I get the chance it's maybe 3 games a day... sometimes 5. 10 happened like... once.

    I know exactly how you feel. It is taxing, because even though I don't care much whether I win or lose, there's still that nice adrenaline injection at the beginning of a match.

    But I've got something like 80 games under my belt and it's kind of subsided somewhat. I just get in there and play and see what happens.

    GoodKingJayIII on
    Battletag: Threeve#1501
    PSN: Threeve703
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2010
    I just watched the Day9 daily #100 for the fourth time, even I think that is getting a little weird.

    Fizban140 on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    They are pretty entertaining.

    I do think Day9 is the best caster there is though. He has an amazing game knowledge, an entertaining personality, is consistent with his presentations, they're always high quality and regular, and can talk for more than an hour about a single subject, several times a week, and not become boring.

    Not many people can do that.

    Dhalphir on
  • ParadisoParadiso Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Disrupter wrote: »
    Eh, with zerg, you can always be building "stuff" and still get rolled. This is because you have to know when drones are no longer the "stuff" you should be building.

    Quoted from last page, but this is something that has always stuck with me since I started playing Zerg. I simply don't have the fine grasp of when to start diverting my larva away from drones and into units. It's all well and good to encourage people to Always Be Droning, but I've found it to be a big struggle to get the feel for when it's time to get an army up.

    Paradiso on
  • KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    No daily tonight. =(

    day9tv Sean Plott
    Btw no daily tonight! At blizzcon rehearsing >.<

    KetBra on
    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
  • mastmanmastman Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    If you're worried about making mans or drones as zerg

    watch one of your replays and pay attention to how many mans they can get at times. It's easy to forget how fast or slow the other races can make guys.

    also, if it's easier, pretend you're another race and make one drone at a time and mans with the other larvae

    mastman on
    ByalIX8.png
    B.net: Kusanku
  • SceptreSceptre Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    CorpseRT wrote: »
    No daily tonight. =(

    day9tv Sean Plott
    Btw no daily tonight! At blizzcon rehearsing >.<

    This makes me a sad panda :(

    Sceptre on
  • ZypherIMZypherIM Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    You can also do stuff like make a drone and then 2 guys, or the spawned larva to guys and natural to drones.

    ZypherIM on
  • tuxkamentuxkamen really took this picture. Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The most critical thing is that you don't *have* to make *all* your larva into the same thing. There is a medium, especially with your expansion up, where you're working with rounds of 10-14 larvae and you don't *need* to make that many drones at once. Split it up, or do half drones and half troops.

    tuxkamen on

    Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
    Thus, the others all die before tuxkamen dies to the vote. Hence, tuxkamen survives, village victory.
    3DS: 2406-5451-5770
  • AldarezAldarez Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    After a couple of weeks focusing on the campaign and challenges, I decided to bite the bullet and play my placement matches. Ended up ranked higher than I expected, largely thanks to two of my five opponents insta-surrendering. I considerered doing the same to balance it out, but I figure I'll get dropped down to where I should be before too long if I keep losing in gold.

    I've very little experience, so if any other noobs are looking for some practice, hit me up :)

    Aldarez on
    2188939-1.png
  • kedinikkedinik Captain of Industry Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    I just watched the Day9 daily #100 for the fourth time, even I think that is getting a little weird.

    It was a damned good daily.

    kedinik on
    I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
  • KambingKambing Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    tuxkamen wrote: »
    The most critical thing is that you don't *have* to make *all* your larva into the same thing. There is a medium, especially with your expansion up, where you're working with rounds of 10-14 larvae and you don't *need* to make that many drones at once. Split it up, or do half drones and half troops.

    It's important to realize this is safe but suboptimal simply because it always pays off to have more drones earlier if you can afford it. Mixing drones and army in a single batch of larva is a safe transition tactic but you should be striving to develop a good enough game sense (augmented with good scouting habits) to know when to make all drones or all units.

    Kambing on
    @TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
  • kedinikkedinik Captain of Industry Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Blindly going half and half isn't the best, yeah.

    But say you scout and realize that you need, say, 3 roaches to be safe. Then it's ideal to make 3 roaches and dump the rest of the batch into drones.

    kedinik on
    I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
  • KambingKambing Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    kedinik wrote: »
    Blindly going half and half isn't the best, yeah.

    But say you scout and realize that you need, say, 3 roaches to be safe. Then it's ideal to make 3 roaches and dump the rest of the batch into drones.

    Sorry, you're right. I should say it like this:

    "you should be striving to develop a good enough game sense (augmented with good scouting habits) to know when to make all drones or just enough units to survive and the rest drones."

    Kambing on
    @TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
  • ParadisoParadiso Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Completely agree. I think the core concept that I was digging at, but failed to articulate, is that situational awareness and comprehension of what an appropriate response is to a threat. Knowing to build those three roaches and go back to drones is where I'm lacking and since every game feels different, I struggle trying to figure out when I'm safe (relatively) and when I'm not.

    Paradiso on
  • dsplaisteddsplaisted Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Paradiso wrote: »
    Disrupter wrote: »
    Eh, with zerg, you can always be building "stuff" and still get rolled. This is because you have to know when drones are no longer the "stuff" you should be building.

    Quoted from last page, but this is something that has always stuck with me since I started playing Zerg. I simply don't have the fine grasp of when to start diverting my larva away from drones and into units. It's all well and good to encourage people to Always Be Droning, but I've found it to be a big struggle to get the feel for when it's time to get an army up.

    Day9 did a daily on this exact subject: Newbie Tuesday: Drone Timing

    dsplaisted on
    2850-1.png
  • iowaiowa Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    i should watch that drone timing daily but im afraid itll just be like oh drone up after an attack and thats not really useful

    i want to start laddering as zerg again, because i hate marauders and its against my religion to play protoss. im so bad at zerg though

    iowa on
  • iowaiowa Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    literally just thinking about seeing an army of marauders and medivacs while all i have are zerglings is making me rage right now.

    im thinking about it
    im picturing it in my head
    and im getting upset

    iowa on
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I found that episode useful and I have been playing zerg in the highest league since the first beta ladder reset.

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • CycloneRangerCycloneRanger Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    We should do some 4v4s now.

    CycloneRanger on
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    No!
    Wait for my coffee to finish, then we do them!

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Reaper? I barely know her!

    SkutSkut on
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    Reaper? I barely know her!

    RAPE JOKES ARE SRZ BZNZ BRO

    DIDN'T YOU SEE THE BLOG POST

    GEEZ

    3cl1ps3 on
  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    anyone for a lively game of crafting stars?

    Joe K on
  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    iowa wrote: »
    i should watch that drone timing daily but im afraid itll just be like oh drone up after an attack and thats not really useful

    i want to start laddering as zerg again, because i hate marauders and its against my religion to play protoss. im so bad at zerg though
    dude wth?

    just watch it it was a fantastic episode

    day9 knows how to explain concepts

    MikeMan on
  • peacekeeperpeacekeeper AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Joe K wrote: »
    anyone for a lively game of crafting stars?

    Sure? :P

    peacekeeper on
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    iowa wrote: »
    literally just thinking about seeing an army of marauders and medivacs while all i have are zerglings is making me rage right now.

    im thinking about it
    im picturing it in my head
    and im getting upset

    marauders aren't great against lings

    though I understand what you're saying

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • WhatWhat Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    iowa wrote: »
    literally just thinking about seeing an army of marauders and medivacs while all i have are zerglings is making me rage right now.

    im thinking about it
    im picturing it in my head
    and im getting upset

    Well, let me just take a look at the unit counter list here...

    themarauder.png

    Ah yes, zergling. You'll be fine.

    What on
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    You know, Day[9] constantly mentions that you can't trust the unit counter list.

    3cl1ps3 on
  • kaleeditykaleedity Sometimes science is more art than science Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    marauders: weak against zerglings
    marines: weak against zerglings (until high food levels)
    marines+marauders: pretty good against zerglings

    kaleedity on
  • 4rch3nemy4rch3nemy Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    As long as you have marauders (or anything, really) to tank hits for marines, zerglings aren't a threat. Honestly, something that most people don't do versus zerg is to have a small (3+) squad of hellions with their main armies. They melt zerglings and make them a non-issue. The hard part of this tactic is the controlling. Without proper control, hellions tend to get right in front and die instantly.

    Still, though.. once people learn to do this more often... ouch.

    4rch3nemy on
  • JudgementJudgement Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    kaleedity wrote: »
    marauders: weak against zerglings
    marines: weak against zerglings (until high food levels)
    marines+marauders: pretty good against zerglings

    You forgot stim for marines. That will fuck up Zerglings quick.

    Judgement on
    309151-1.png
  • SceptreSceptre Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    4rch3nemy wrote: »
    As long as you have marauders (or anything, really) to tank hits for marines, zerglings aren't a threat. Honestly, something that most people don't do versus zerg is to have a small (3+) squad of hellions with their main armies. They melt zerglings and make them a non-issue. The hard part of this tactic is the controlling. Without proper control, hellions tend to get right in front and die instantly.

    Still, though.. once people learn to do this more often... ouch.

    This just falls in line with blizzards love for the idea that useful units you'd want at the back of your army tend to move faster than the things you want in the front.

    This is why it is necessary to baby sit a Stalker/Zealot army going anywhere, especially against zerg because if those stalkers show up like a second ahead of the zealots, you should give up right there.

    Sceptre on
  • JudgementJudgement Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    4rch3nemy wrote: »
    As long as you have marauders (or anything, really) to tank hits for marines, zerglings aren't a threat. Honestly, something that most people don't do versus zerg is to have a small (3+) squad of hellions with their main armies. They melt zerglings and make them a non-issue. The hard part of this tactic is the controlling. Without proper control, hellions tend to get right in front and die instantly.

    Still, though.. once people learn to do this more often... ouch.

    Hellions are 150(?) Minerals a piece. Depending on what his build order is, it may not be viable. If he goes for lings/Mutas, yeah. Roaches/Hydras, not so much.

    Judgement on
    309151-1.png
  • 4rch3nemy4rch3nemy Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Aren't hellions only 75 each? 225 minerals for 3 hellions that demolish lines and lines of lings is definitely worth it!


    Of course, this is all theorycraft. I've had this happen to me a couple times but I'm sure it was more of an accidental thing like "I'll just get a crapload of units" and hellions happened to be in there. If I made more roaches and less lings, it wouldn't have mattered as much.

    Speedlings are my curse. I love them so much but they're really quite fragile.


    EDIT: 100 each. 300 minerals for 3. Not too shabby still.

    4rch3nemy on
  • nealcmnealcm Alvarian AlvarianRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    stim and conc on marauders vs. zerglings is just trololol movin backwards and hold positioning

    nealcm on
    19ZUtIw.png
Sign In or Register to comment.