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Working with slow team members/unsympathetic boss [Lock]
McAlty
Registered User new member
Registered User new member
[Throw away account, as it's easy to trace my usual one!]
I've been put on a university research project with two members, both of whom are new to the country (they're both Chinese). The project isn't mine, but a pet project of my advisor. I do 50% my thesis work and 50% his pet project work to pay the bills. I also have other academic service stuff that's been dumped on me without any say in the matter, like creating a booklet with a conference schedule in it (which will take far longer than you might think).
One of them has performed research before, one hasn't. Mr A. has classes to do, Mrs. B has no classes and works full-time on this project.
Since starting the project at the beginning of term, neither of them have contributed anything. They haven't done any work that I've seen; when they're told to read papers they don't. In meetings, when they say they didn't read the papers, my advisor low-balls them and says "well, can you do it for next week?" When they eventually read the papers, they show little insight. It shouldn't Mrs B. a 40 hour work week to read 16 pages. Eventually, I just get given all the coding, infrastructure setup etc etc. This takes me the full 40 hours usually.
My advisor spoke with me and said "I understand it's hard to work with them because they don't speak English very well, but you'll just have to take it slow with them." I've had to help them set up their code environments, learn Python, answer silly questions (Mr. A doesn't read his email for a week, so emails questions I've already answered in previous emails). My problem is not that they can't speak English, but that they don't learn or do anything for themselves.
I got an email from my advisor this morning saying roughly "I need you to write all the documentation for the code you wrote, because the others are saying they can't start without it." This is categorically bullshit. They could spend their time learning Python, or implementing the algorithm they should be, or whatever. He's expecting the world from me, and absolutely zero from them. This has been a running theme on previous projects; when the other participants can't actually get their shit together, he places everything on my shoulders because I've shown myself to be actually competent, leading me to do more work and take the blame when things don't get finished.
I'm getting really frustrated at the situation. When I spoke with someone in my lab, she said that I was being too hard on the students, because it was their first term and they were in a new culture. That made my blood boil... it's one thing to find doing the code hard, it's quite another to not read two 8 page papers in 40 hours or not read any of your email for weeks. I'm trying to keep a lid on my frustration in emails I write, but I have a horrible tendency to make it quite clear when I'm annoyed when I write emails. I already got close to being in trouble when I wrote an email saying I'd opened an IT support ticket for one of them to get some software on their machines, then about 12 hours later Mr. A (who doesn't read his email) wrote an email saying he'd opened a support ticket FOR THE VERY SAME THING. My reply was visibly annoyed. I've been in trouble for that sort of thing before.
TL;DR I'm in a frustrating place with a work project; the boss doesn't care, and I'm worried I'm going to say something out-of-line and get in trouble. I want the work load to balance out, and not having to keep babying the other team members. I either need the problem to go away, or have some strategy for not getting in trouble when I write emails while still expressing my dismay.
I've been put on a university research project with two members, both of whom are new to the country (they're both Chinese). The project isn't mine, but a pet project of my advisor. I do 50% my thesis work and 50% his pet project work to pay the bills. I also have other academic service stuff that's been dumped on me without any say in the matter, like creating a booklet with a conference schedule in it (which will take far longer than you might think).
One of them has performed research before, one hasn't. Mr A. has classes to do, Mrs. B has no classes and works full-time on this project.
Since starting the project at the beginning of term, neither of them have contributed anything. They haven't done any work that I've seen; when they're told to read papers they don't. In meetings, when they say they didn't read the papers, my advisor low-balls them and says "well, can you do it for next week?" When they eventually read the papers, they show little insight. It shouldn't Mrs B. a 40 hour work week to read 16 pages. Eventually, I just get given all the coding, infrastructure setup etc etc. This takes me the full 40 hours usually.
My advisor spoke with me and said "I understand it's hard to work with them because they don't speak English very well, but you'll just have to take it slow with them." I've had to help them set up their code environments, learn Python, answer silly questions (Mr. A doesn't read his email for a week, so emails questions I've already answered in previous emails). My problem is not that they can't speak English, but that they don't learn or do anything for themselves.
I got an email from my advisor this morning saying roughly "I need you to write all the documentation for the code you wrote, because the others are saying they can't start without it." This is categorically bullshit. They could spend their time learning Python, or implementing the algorithm they should be, or whatever. He's expecting the world from me, and absolutely zero from them. This has been a running theme on previous projects; when the other participants can't actually get their shit together, he places everything on my shoulders because I've shown myself to be actually competent, leading me to do more work and take the blame when things don't get finished.
I'm getting really frustrated at the situation. When I spoke with someone in my lab, she said that I was being too hard on the students, because it was their first term and they were in a new culture. That made my blood boil... it's one thing to find doing the code hard, it's quite another to not read two 8 page papers in 40 hours or not read any of your email for weeks. I'm trying to keep a lid on my frustration in emails I write, but I have a horrible tendency to make it quite clear when I'm annoyed when I write emails. I already got close to being in trouble when I wrote an email saying I'd opened an IT support ticket for one of them to get some software on their machines, then about 12 hours later Mr. A (who doesn't read his email) wrote an email saying he'd opened a support ticket FOR THE VERY SAME THING. My reply was visibly annoyed. I've been in trouble for that sort of thing before.
TL;DR I'm in a frustrating place with a work project; the boss doesn't care, and I'm worried I'm going to say something out-of-line and get in trouble. I want the work load to balance out, and not having to keep babying the other team members. I either need the problem to go away, or have some strategy for not getting in trouble when I write emails while still expressing my dismay.
McAlty on
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Posts
If you're actually doing 50% pet project and getting paid for that, then you should do what you're told to do to get paid. Doesn't mean you have to like it !
If you're spending MORE than 50% of your time on pet project and only getting paid for 50% of your time, then stop spending more than 50%.
What I would do, is write down a proposed weekly timeline for yourself, and show it to your advisor for approval. It doesn't have to be an exact schedule, just "I plan to spend 12 hours writing documentation, 2 hours teaching A how to do this...." etc etc. Give your advisor a chance to say "Oh, I'd rather you spend more time on this task than that task right now."
And then once your advisor approves the schedule, then you can stick to it and use it as an excuse to be a bit of a jerk. If A and B know that you only have a certain amount of time scheduled for solving their problems, they'll be more likely to try to fix something yourself before asking you for help. And if your advisor tries to dump more work on you, you can say "Okay, well what should I take off my schedule to make time for that?"
So yes, I am paid for 50% and that's what I do, I do one week his project one week mine. His project pays my salary each month, which is what a researcher would be paid but at 50%. This is a normal way of funding grad students. You get paid not very much
I am not doing "extra work" so much as having the whole project ride on me. I won't work more than the hours I am supposed to, but when the project inevitably misses it's deadline, someone's ass is on the line for it. And I'm thinking it'll be me.
One cannot simply "quit" a PhD program, nor would I want to. I really like what I do, it's just this one thing that is really bugging me. Yes, I agree if they aren't pulling their weight they should be out the door, but that happens so rarely in graduate labs I wouldn't hold my breath. It wouldn't happen for at least two years anyway.
This also sounds like a good idea. The "What should I bump for this?" question would really help. Thanks!
Write and document stuff as though 3 year old can understand (sad but thats how people need to be treated).
I agree on doing a weekly schedule because maybe your advisor doesn't see the load you have.
― Dr. Seuss, Oh, the Places You'll Go!
I was in a group of three, but ended up doing almost the whole thing myself. It annoyed me a bit at first, but there were a couple good reasons why the other two couldn't help as much and in the end I prefered working alone most of the time. When the other guys did help out it was a pleasant surprise, rather than a feeling of "oh, so you finally did something..." Yeah, the others are getting a free ride, but you'll be happier looking at it that way.
Of course, it my case it was actually possible to get through it on my own. If you know you can't meet the deadlines, just do what's already been suggested. Make a schedule, document everything you do, and try to be civil to the other guys. Make sure your advisor is aware of your timeline, the work you've done so far, and the current situation between you and the other members. If he's aware of all this and still gets on your case for it, than he's a dick and it's up to you whether you want to put up with it.
Who is the project manager in this endeavour? If it's your advisor, then he isn't doing it right!
Sounds like you're being expected to manage the project as well as deliver on the research side of things.
I would raise the issue that resources, tasks, and ulimately, workloads are not being managed/allocated properly and provide helpful input into how this might best be resolved by the advisor. It's HIS project, therefore it's ultimately down to him to manage it correctly, or assign this responsibility to someone who can manage it for him.
In simple terms, good PM would dictate that a Work Breakdown Structure is created, showing all the tasks/responsibilities in a broken down, meaningful way that allows them to be distributed among those who are best fit to deliver them.
It is also very useful to examine which tasks require the completion of prior tasks before they can go ahead -- this is your critical path. i.e. if task A doesn't get done in time, then task B cannot start and the whole project may be delayed as a result.
You're then in a position to assign timescales to each task or group of tasks. This gives you a much better feel for managing the workload (non-critical path tasks often have scope to be delayed/postponed without delaying the whole project; critical path tasks are the important stuff which need to be done in time).
Knowing your critical paths allows you to set Milestones where you can review how the delivery of the work is going. While a project should be regularly monitored, Milestones allow for a sort of 'formal snapshot' of how a project is performing.
If the extent of the work is understood, and tasks and responsibilities are properly assigned then this should (among other things), 1) allow for a fairer distribution of work; 2) stop replication of tasks; and 3) make it clear who fucks up, if and when a fuck up occurs.
So many projects are started with this mindset of "let's just start doing task 1 and see how things go..." without any proper planning. Of the many types of people I've worked with, I've found academics are the worst for doing this, due to having replaced all their common sense with academia.
The above is really basic, simple stuff to use when approaching a project which requires work from multiple people/resources. It's also common sense, essentially, but it's quite amazing how giving a project the appropriate level of planning actually makes it so much easier to manage and deliver.
To reiterate my initial point, if it's your Advisor's project, then it's his responsibility to manage it - unless he has passed this responsibility onto you and is paying you appropriately!
Good luck!
undergraduates are retarded and can't be counted on to do anything you need done. SO you just need to do things yourself if you want them done. so if you want to work with this PI you need to put on your big boy pants and suck it up. You can either bitch and moan and change nothing or you can take the initiative and start running the project and telling people what needs to be done and then get them to do it.
The only way around that (in the future) is to never agree to a 50/50 split. 60/40, 70/30, fine. That way when stuff like this comes up, you can say, "no, I won't do that extra work because it is documented as not my main priority", or "hey, you are obligated to help me with this, because we agreed it's my main priority."
Good luck working this out with your labmmates.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
You are saying this is over but this is in all honesty the best piece of advice here.
I too love at times a wonderfully long angry email, but if you are cc'ing people try and lay off with the bitterness
Satans..... hints.....