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[macOS] Sierra is Online. "Hey Siri, I need to get rid of a body."

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Posts

  • FatsFats Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    ronzo wrote: »
    Comparing SSD space to normal HDD space is silly, you get them for completely different reason.

    I'm fairly sure they're both there to store data, but I could be wrong.

    Are the SSDs that come stock still super slow, or did they get smart and move to X-25Es or something?

    Fats on
  • ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Fats wrote: »
    ronzo wrote: »
    Comparing SSD space to normal HDD space is silly, you get them for completely different reason.

    I'm fairly sure they're both there to store data, but I could be wrong.

    Are the SSDs that come stock still super slow, or did they get smart and move to X-25Es or something?

    they probably aren't as nice as the X-25's or the Sandforce line, but it will probably be several times faster than a normal drive

    And what i meant by "different reasons" is that you get a SSD for size, lightness, speed and durability, and normal HDD for capacity and cost. It makes a great deal of sense to stick SSD in a ultraportable over a HDD, so saying "hey the bigger laptop can have more storage space by using a different drive" is a crappy argument

    ronzo on
  • AtomikaAtomika Cinema Vampire (alleged) Trans 🏳️‍⚧️ SylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Ego wrote: »
    Was that not hugely obvious? Are you confused by the existence of laptops in general because desktops always cost less for considerably better performance? They're better computers and they cost less hurf durf!

    C'mon man, that's apples and oranges.

    The Air exists in a realm of portable computing, and does so at a price point that is baffling. I questioned the need for the iPad, but never doubted its utility, especially at it's starting price. $500 is not a lot of dough to shell out for a device that literally does everything except create content, even more so in consideration of how well it works at so many tasks in comparison to the competition.

    But the Air is not a mobile device; it is ostensibly a laptop. And a laptop is a personal computer, which are made for content creation as well as consumption. And it comes in at a price point that one can only speculate is aimed at a very specific niche market: consumers who need a modicum of creation ability, don't require discs to be read or written, yet still need cutting-edge memory response time, and above all are willing to pay a high cost for a machine that is inferior to other similarly-priced Apple products.

    Is the Air competition for the iPad? At twice the entry cost, absent touch capabilities, and less portability, it would hardly seem so.

    Is the Air competition of the MacBook? With only marginally smaller dimensions, a similar interface, and far diminished storage, media, and computational ability . . . at the same exact entry price . . . . again, it seems unlikely.

    People who more heavily favour the portability side of the portability vs power scale than regular notebook purchasers.

    And who are these people? Who are the people, wringing their hands and gnashing their teeth, crying out for a laptop that is significantly less utilitarian yet only marginally more portable, all while offering no financial incentive? And should this person exist, which of them are not being sated by the iPad?


    The MacBook Air looks like a solution in search of a problem. Which isn't surprising; that's what its predecessors were, and they didn't sell that well either. But this type of reaction seems to be typical of Jobs' recent thinking when it comes to redesigns of Apple products; when something doesn't work, make it smaller and cheaper. If by judging from the recent boom in AppleTV sales is any indication, it's a philosophy that might be working, despite criticism to the contrary.

    Atomika on
  • AtomikaAtomika Cinema Vampire (alleged) Trans 🏳️‍⚧️ SylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    ronzo wrote: »
    saying "hey the bigger laptop can have more storage space by using a different drive" is a crappy argument

    Isn't that the argument the consumer has to make, though? Speed and durability are admirable qualities, but there definitely is a price point where those considerations take a back seat to cost.

    A consumer will have to look at both the Air and the regular MacBook and say, is the speed and durability of the SSD worth it if I only have 1/4th the storage? And no optical drive?


    The iPad has inadvertently made the argument for and against content creation; it's a fairly binary choice, and you're either doing it or you're not. The Air, in no uncertain terms, is not a machine built for creation; it has no optical capabilities, it has a very limited processing power, and it has a small amount of native storage. Yet it is priced at the same point as models better suited to content creation while only offering the questionable virtues of slightly reduced dimensions and HD speed. And since when has a smaller screen been a virtue on a content creation device?

    Atomika on
  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Ego wrote: »
    Was that not hugely obvious? Are you confused by the existence of laptops in general because desktops always cost less for considerably better performance? They're better computers and they cost less hurf durf!

    C'mon man, that's apples and oranges.

    No, it's not. Ten years ago people made the same stupid type of posts in forums every time some company offered a smaller laptop that cost more money than it's larger bulkier and faster competition. People in PA still make those types of nonsense posts whenever someone asks for advice on a gaming laptop, despite there being a market for gaming laptops, simply because one is more expensive for less power in exchange for a gain in portability.
    The Air exists in a realm of portable computing, and does so at a price point that is baffling. I questioned the need for the iPad, but never doubted its utility, especially at it's starting price. $500 is not a lot of dough to shell out for a device that literally does everything except create content, even more so in consideration of how well it works at so many tasks in comparison to the competition.

    But the Air is not a mobile device; it is ostensibly a laptop. And a laptop is a personal computer, which are made for content creation as well as consumption. And it comes in at a price point that one can only speculate is aimed at a very specific niche market: consumers who need a modicum of creation ability, don't require discs to be read or written, yet still need cutting-edge memory response time, and above all are willing to pay a high cost for a machine that is inferior to other similarly-priced Apple products.

    Is the Air competition for the iPad? At twice the entry cost, absent touch capabilities, and less portability, it would hardly seem so.

    Is the Air competition of the MacBook? With only marginally smaller dimensions, a similar interface, and far diminished storage, media, and computational ability . . . at the same exact entry price . . . . again, it seems unlikely.

    People who more heavily favour the portability side of the portability vs power scale than regular notebook purchasers.

    And who are these people? Who are the people, wringing their hands and gnashing their teeth, crying out for a laptop that is significantly less utilitarian yet only marginally more portable, all while offering no financial incentive? And should this person exist, which of them are not being sated by the iPad?

    The MacBook Air looks like a solution in search of a problem. Which isn't surprising; that's what its predecessors were, and they didn't sell that well either. But this type of reaction seems to be typical of Jobs' recent thinking when it comes to redesigns of Apple products; when something doesn't work, make it smaller and cheaper. If by judging from the recent boom in AppleTV sales is any indication, it's a philosophy that might be working, despite criticism to the contrary.

    Are you kidding me? There aren't masses of civilians wringing their hands and crying out for milspec portable electronics, but those still have a niche in the civilian market and sell well at a large premium.

    The air is for people who want a full mac computing experience (and yes, most people these days don't generally burn CDs or DVDs on their laptops, so that's a full computing experience) in the most portable format possible.

    That's all. That's the explanation. There isn't any further to delve. People will pay a premium for portability. Your questions are answered, your confusion (should be) lifted.
    With only marginally smaller dimensions...
    cons: MacBook has larger display

    By the way, I like how you consider the size difference between two products to be marginal when smaller size is a favourable point for the macbook air, but not to be marginal when looking at screen size and taking it as a favourable point for a macbook.

    Better go edit your previous posts to say cons: MacBook has a marginally larger display.

    Ego on
    Erik
  • AtomikaAtomika Cinema Vampire (alleged) Trans 🏳️‍⚧️ SylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Ego wrote: »
    People in PA still make those types of nonsense posts whenever someone asks for advice on a gaming laptop, despite there being a market for gaming laptops, simply because one is more expensive for less power in exchange for a gain in portability.

    And this is my primary concern: what gain in portability?

    The Air offers a minute 0.4" reduction in depth, and nothing in width (with the 13" option). And half the battery life of a MacBook.

    Where's the "portability" in that?
    Better go edit your previous posts to say cons: MacBook has a marginally larger display.

    It depends on your objective. A 13" MacBook is slightly less portable than a 11" Air, but the former gives you higher resolution and viewing area for the same price.

    As a content creator myself, I know I like working on a bigger space, and certainly don't consider paying more for less any kind of value.

    Atomika on
  • ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The SSD vs HDD is basically just speed vs capacity, and the only real limiter on SSD capacity at this point is cost. SSD's can give a huge, easily noticeable boost to almost anything done on a computer. They allow boot times of mere seconds rather than a minute or two.

    additionally, I don't consider 30% thinner at its fattest point to be marginally thinner

    or 40-50% of the weight.

    and you should really drop the whole "no cd/dvd drive is a downside" thing. It's not a big deal for most people anymore, people made the same argument when netbooks first exploded and popularity. It stopped mattering when you started being about to buy a 8gb flash drive for $20

    edit: i wrote this post while you wrote than last one, but other than the physical size of the screen, the smaller Air and the MB have more or less the same resolution. the first is just 16:9 instead of the macbooks 16:10. The 13in Air actually has a higher resolution screen at 1440x900

    edit2: honestly, the only point on which I agree with you is battery life, but that was still a trade-off made for making it smaller and lighter. I'm sure the rev B mba's will improve it

    ronzo on
  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Ego wrote: »
    People in PA still make those types of nonsense posts whenever someone asks for advice on a gaming laptop, despite there being a market for gaming laptops, simply because one is more expensive for less power in exchange for a gain in portability.

    And this is my primary concern: what gain in portability?

    The Air offers a minute 0.4" reduction in depth, and nothing in width (with the 13" option). And half the battery life of a MacBook.

    11" < 13". thinner < thicker. Lighter weight < heavier weight.

    Ross, I know you like to come shit all over apple threads but give it a rest already. Out of curiosity I looked up your old posts in the original ipad thread, and was struck by the hilarity of you saying you'd really like a very PORTABLE option for content creation but don't understand the role of the ipad since it doesn't create content. It's just a peripheral!

    Portability. The air is for people who want the most portability on OS X and will pay a premium for it; the same way people have paid premiums for portability for decades. Stop pretending you can't understand that a smaller thing is more portable than a bigger thing, or how people will pay for the privilege of having that portability. You asked what market it was for, I told you. I'm not going to engage in some asinine game of justifying individual tradeoffs: you asked for the gist of why the air exists and you got it.

    Ego on
    Erik
  • AtomikaAtomika Cinema Vampire (alleged) Trans 🏳️‍⚧️ SylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    ronzo wrote: »
    and you should really drop the whole "no cd/dvd drive is a downside" thing. It's not a big deal for most people anymore, people made the same argument when netbooks first exploded and popularity. It stopped mattering when you started being about to buy a 8gb flash drive for $20


    It think there's a good argument for it, especially in terms of content creation. Though I agree, they're becoming outmoded.

    You mention netbooks, but this thing isn't as portable as a netbook, nor does it have the pricing incentives that a netbook does. Netbooks exploded because they offered a full-OS experience for a GameBoy price.


    I only mention the optical drive because of the cost related. The MacBook has much greater utility for the money, and since the "portability" of the Air is seemingly negligible, I have to ask its purpose. I like that it's thin, I like that it's lighter; I don't care that it achieved those qualities by reducing or eliminating the internal elements that gave it that marginal extra girth. Much in the same way I wouldn't care for a sports car that became lighter and faster by getting rid of the seats and removed the doors.

    If Jobs wants to make a netbook, he needs to just sack up and make one. People would buy it, and not just that, but also people would instantly see its place and purpose.

    But the Air? It's neither fish nor fowl, despite being a little fishy, and possibly foul.

    Atomika on
  • AtomikaAtomika Cinema Vampire (alleged) Trans 🏳️‍⚧️ SylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Ego wrote: »
    Ross, I know you like to come shit all over apple threads but give it a rest already. Out of curiosity I looked up your old posts in the original ipad thread, and was struck by the hilarity of you saying you'd really like a very PORTABLE option for content creation but don't understand the role of the ipad since it doesn't create content. It's just a peripheral!

    First off, cut out the fanboy shit. You've been nothing but rude in this thread, and it's uncalled for. We're just people talking about computers, man. Take the vitriol somewhere else.

    Now, to address the above, I still would like a portable content creation option. But the Air, at its current specs and price, is not that option. Those specs at a lower price? Viable option. Better specs at that price? Viable option. Current configuration, with low processing power, low battery life, and limited storage at a price twice that of the iPad? Not remotely a viable option.

    I don't doubt there is a market for extreme portability. But there's also a market for horse porn and knock-off Nintendos. The existence of a market doesn't suddenly legitimize a product's configuration. And in Apple's case even more so, considering their extensive and legendary propensity for brand attraction; some people will like Apple products regardless. Just because a model might be supported doesn't necessitate or justify its existence.

    And for me, the Air doesn't justify its existence, certainly not the way most other Apple products (of which I'm an ardent fan of) routinely do. As I type this post from my iMac with my iPod touch resting by my side, I'm keenly aware of what Apple does well. The Air, much like AppleTV, was not their crowning glory, and this new model addresses few of the standing concerns about the product.

    Atomika on
  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    People getting really excited about that small, white thumbdrive?

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820235040

    Paint it white and save about $974...

    Donovan Puppyfucker on
  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Ego wrote: »
    Ross, I know you like to come shit all over apple threads but give it a rest already. Out of curiosity I looked up your old posts in the original ipad thread, and was struck by the hilarity of you saying you'd really like a very PORTABLE option for content creation but don't understand the role of the ipad since it doesn't create content. It's just a peripheral!

    First off, cut out the fanboy shit. You've been nothing but rude in this thread, and it's uncalled for. We're just people talking about computers, man. Take the vitriol somewhere else.

    Now, to address the above, I still would like a portable content creation option. But the Air, at its current specs and price, is not that option. Those specs at a lower price? Viable option. Better specs at that price? Viable option. Current configuration, with low processing power, low battery life, and limited storage at a price twice that of the iPad? Not remotely a viable option.

    I don't doubt there is a market for extreme portability. But there's also a market for horse porn and knock-off Nintendos. The existence of a market doesn't suddenly legitimize a product's configuration. And in Apple's case even more so, considering their extensive and legendary propensity for brand attraction; some people will like Apple products regardless. Just because a model might be supported doesn't necessitate or justify its existence.

    And for me, the Air doesn't justify its existence, certainly not the way most other Apple products (of which I'm an ardent fan of) routinely do. As I type this post from my iMac with my iPod touch resting by my side, I'm keenly aware of what Apple does well. The Air, much like AppleTV, was not their crowning glory, and this new model addresses few of the standing concerns about the product.

    I'll cut the 'fanboy shit' (despite owning no Apple products other than my phone and a pile of ancient macs) when you stop shitting on apple threads.

    The air isn't the option for you. We get it. It's not the option for me either. It's not even the option for most people in this thread who buy a lot of apple products. Who cares? Is there a market for exceedingly portable devices? Yes. Is the air more portable than the most portable of non-Air macbooks? Yes.

    Stop pretending that you don't understand that, or why it exists. It's there to offer OS X in the most portable format possible (without undercutting Apple's primary computer profits) to consumers.
    in Apple's case even more so, considering their extensive and legendary propensity for brand attraction; some people will like Apple products regardles
    this type of reaction seems to be typical of Jobs' recent thinking when it comes to redesigns of Apple products; when something doesn't work, make it smaller and cheaper. If by judging from the recent boom in AppleTV sales is any indication, it's a philosophy that might be working, despite criticism to the contrary.

    I think this is your real hangup --a dislike of business methodology. I mean, no one is actually dumb enough not to understand why people pay a premium for extra portability.

    Ego on
    Erik
  • AtomikaAtomika Cinema Vampire (alleged) Trans 🏳️‍⚧️ SylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Ego wrote: »
    I mean, no one is actually dumb enough not to understand why people pay a premium for extra portability.

    You know what? I think I am.

    Portability on its own is a pretty limited virtue. Given the circumstances surrounding this particular example of it, I still remained baffled.

    I mean, what is being gained by the marginal reduction in this case? Are people having problems lugging around the oppressive 4 pounds the MacBook weighs?

    Outside of the slimmer design and SSD, there are literally no virtues possessed by the Air that are not better represented by other, cheaper, PORTABLE options within the Apple wheelhouse.


    So, yeah, call me dumb. Because I can't fathom a strong market exists for high-cost products that don't really meet a tangible need.

    Atomika on
  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    So you don't know anyone who bought a netbook for the sake of a 2.2-2.5 lb device despite being able to afford a 'proper' laptop then, right? You must have skipped all our old netbook threads.

    I apologize for rudeness. But (enough) people like portability. People have paid premiums for portability for a long time. While the edge in portability might not be enough to make the device a sale for you, it's definitely going to be enough to make the device a sale for other people.

    You yourself said you wanted the ipad to be a more portable OS X device. Well, this is a more portable OS X device. The price point isn't where you want it, the portability (from the sounds of things) isn't where you want it, but it's actually very affordable for an ultra-portable OS X device, and I'm pretty sure (judging from g4 ibook popularity) it'll be in the range of what plenty of people want for a mac. The new Air makes a lot of sense --and this is from someone who didn't grok the value of the old Air at all.

    And you know, Apple is hardly the only company doing this. Intel is running a whole new line of CPUs that don't match their current notebook offerings but are better for the 'more or less a full system' ultra-portable market than the atom. People like small things.

    Ego on
    Erik
  • Serious_ScrubSerious_Scrub Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The new Air is a really nice programmer's laptop. It's light, still has a full sized keyboard, runs OS X, has a large enough SSD, has a decent battery life and processor, and there's practically nothing that needs to be done on a DVD drive these days.

    Serious_Scrub on
  • ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I mean, what is being gained by the marginal reduction in this case? Are people having problems lugging around the oppressive 4 pounds the MacBook weighs?

    Comparing the 11.6 MB Air against the 13 MB Pro

    MB Air
    0.11 to 0.68 x 11.8 x 7.56 inches
    2.6lb

    MB Pro
    0.95 x 12.78 x 8.94 inches
    4.5lb

    So, a 39% reduction in thickness at the fat end, a 89% reduction on the skinny end, with a 42% drop in weight. That sounds pretty marginal yep.

    The difference in size and weight is the difference between dedicating part of your backpack to holding your laptop and just tossing it in a purse or something. My MBP is pretty damn portable, but it still have to make space in my school bag for it. If one of my roommates (all girls) had a MBA, they could literally just toss it in their purse without noticing it, just like any other netbook, which would be impossible with my, by comparison, behemoth of a laptop

    You mention netbooks, but this thing isn't as portable as a netbook, nor does it have the pricing incentives that a netbook does. Netbooks exploded because they offered a full-OS experience for a GameBoy price.

    A popular netbook, the Asus 1015PEM, which has a 10.1in screen
    10.31" x 7.01" x 0.93" - 1.43"
    2.76lbs

    The HP mini 10 is also a similar size, as is the dell 10v. These are all popular netbooks, so unless you've concocted your own definition of what a netbook is without telling us, the 11.6 MBA air is just as portable, if not more, than a netbook.

    On price, it may cost three times as much, but that's the difference between a real C2D and a Atom, or a SSD and a slow as shit 5400 RPM HDD, or having 2-4GB of ram as opposed to 1-2GB. Oh, and a halfway decent video chip instead of using some Intel GMA POS that barely lets you watch 720p youtube clips

    The MBA is just as portable as a netbook while being nearly as powerful as a full macbook pro

    ronzo on
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Also missing from the portability argument; business travellers. You know, the ones who create content in the office then go to conferences and shit to show it off.
    Every single one of those guys wants the tiniest possible device because, at various points, they will be carrying the device, the power brick, their aux. cables, their projector and their briefing documents around a show floor, not to mention their actual luggage as well in between the hotel and the airport. Oh and then there's those tiny airline seats where a full-size laptop simply isn't practical to open up and watch movies on or finish re-writing the meeting notes.

    Mr_Rose on
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  • KastanjKastanj __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2010
    I think the marginal utility of lighter weight and portability deteriorates after a certain threshold.

    The Macbook Air adds a lot of price considering the hardware, for a small but impressive decrease in thickness and increase in portability. I can understand if you are constantly on the go - because business travel and commuting is often not accommodating or comfortable.

    Otherwise, I don't understand the appreciation for the item, and now I am starting to lose my respect for it as well. It's just hype - being really excited because being excited feels good.

    Kastanj on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • InkSplatInkSplat 100%ed Bad Rats. Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I would also like to throw out a point for the debate: the god damn thing is pretty. People pay for aesthetics. And while all the aluminum unibody macs are gorgeous, the Air (11' especially) is pretty much the top tier of that particular scale. (Except maybe for the bezel. But I'll have to see that in person to judge).

    But there's a reason I wear a Movado watch, for example--people notice it, comment on it, and it effects their initial impressions of me. That's the same for most people in the world, and paying to take advantage of that split-second opinion-forming aspect of people has been driving sales of objects for as long as things have been sold.

    InkSplat on
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  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Since more and more is being done in the cloud these days (especially business users but even my school netbook has all my files in the cloud), I don't see why hard drive space is much of a concern.

    KalTorak on
  • InkSplatInkSplat 100%ed Bad Rats. Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Since more and more is being done in the cloud these days (especially business users but even my school netbook has all my files in the cloud), I don't see why hard drive space is much of a concern.

    Really, if Apple made their cloud service free, gave the Air 3g and a swivel touch screen, I would be the happiest person ever.

    As it stands though, I'm hoping we get some nice Chrome OS books. Unfortunately I'm 99% sure none of them will look as nice as anything Apple puts out.

    InkSplat on
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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited October 2010
    Swivel touch screens seem completely anathema to where Apple design is trending.

    3G in a MacBook Air seems so obvious though that I am surprised they didn't do it. Maybe they are holding off for the dual mode CDMA/EVDO iPhone/iPad chips to arrive in their mobile devices before putting that touch into their laptops.

    Lots of people think that this represents the death knell of the MacBook; that the next generation MacBook will be a revised MacBook Air, and that if you want ports or a disc drive, you will need to get a MacBook Pro.

    syndalis on
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  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    How would people feel about a twin-touchscreen device with a 180° hinge that can operate as a laptop (using the "bottom" screen as kbd/mse), as a courier-style book-format device and as a fold-over touchscreen "clipboard" like the iPad?

    Mr_Rose on
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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited October 2010
    Well, what happens to the other screen when you fold it over to use it like a slate?

    The rotation that most convertible slates do just seems like something that Apple will never do.

    syndalis on
    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Well, what happens to the other screen when you fold it over to use it like a slate?

    The rotation that most convertible slates do just seems like something that Apple will never do.
    In theory you'd only hold it that way in your arms, folding it back into book or laptop style if you put it down somewhere. Plus I think it would use the inevitable accelerometers to switch off the "bottom" screen when held, and possibly make it a duplicate of the other when they are both vertical.

    Mr_Rose on
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  • InkSplatInkSplat 100%ed Bad Rats. Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I like the tactile feel of keys, honestly. But the possibilities opened up by a dual-screen macbook would be great enough that I'd definitely sacrifice it.

    And I'm not sure what Apple's issue with swivel is, really. I mean, it seems like they could make a fantastic looking swivel device if they went for an iphone-like brick approach.

    I mean, I know it'll never happen, but still. Being able to switch from iPad to Air on-demand would just be fantastic.

    InkSplat on
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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited October 2010
    InkSplat wrote: »
    I like the tactile feel of keys, honestly. But the possibilities opened up by a dual-screen macbook would be great enough that I'd definitely sacrifice it.

    And I'm not sure what Apple's issue with swivel is, really. I mean, it seems like they could make a fantastic looking swivel device if they went for an iphone-like brick approach.

    I mean, I know it'll never happen, but still. Being able to switch from iPad to Air on-demand would just be fantastic.

    As a previous owner of swivel based laptops, the weakest link by far is the swivel. In a rotating , narrow area, you have to run the power and data for the screen and the camera.

    And that shit breaks all the time on convertible laptops and even cellphones, who deal with far less weight than their laptop counterpart.

    Apple has had a focus in the past few years on solid, durable gear that is carved out of blocks of aluminum. They won't sacrifice their image of durability.

    syndalis on
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  • InkSplatInkSplat 100%ed Bad Rats. Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    InkSplat wrote: »
    I like the tactile feel of keys, honestly. But the possibilities opened up by a dual-screen macbook would be great enough that I'd definitely sacrifice it.

    And I'm not sure what Apple's issue with swivel is, really. I mean, it seems like they could make a fantastic looking swivel device if they went for an iphone-like brick approach.

    I mean, I know it'll never happen, but still. Being able to switch from iPad to Air on-demand would just be fantastic.

    As a previous owner of swivel based laptops, the weakest link by far is the swivel. In a rotating , narrow area, you have to run the power and data for the screen and the camera.

    And that shit breaks all the time on convertible laptops and even cellphones, who deal with far less weight than their laptop counterpart.

    Apple has had a focus in the past few years on solid, durable gear that is carved out of blocks of aluminum. They won't sacrifice their image of durability.

    That does make sense. But I'd just really love a convertible. I mean, the Touches and iPads offer a lot of great uses, but then for something like I'm doing now, typing on a forum and messing around in GIMP, the Air is where'd I'd want to be.

    I mean, I could just buy a new macbook + an ipad for the same price as a specced out Air, but it isn't nearly as convenient.

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  • SenshiSenshi Registered User
    edited October 2010
    Lion scares and intrigues me. I like to keep my mobile OS on my mobile platform, thank you v much

    on the other hand, it's all optional anyway and might serve as an excellent way to halve the phonecalls I get from my mother asking me to help her with her computer.

    Senshi on
  • InkSplatInkSplat 100%ed Bad Rats. Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    It's funny that, in a way, Lion is going to help Chrome get people used to the idea of a more condensed, direct, and simple computing experience.

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  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    InkSplat wrote: »
    I like the tactile feel of keys, honestly. But the possibilities opened up by a dual-screen macbook would be great enough that I'd definitely sacrifice it.
    See, I fell in love with apple's minimum-travel aluminium keyboard the moment I first touched one and to me, tapping away on a screen just doesn't feel that different, especially with how responsive a capacitive screen can be, so I wouldn't even necessarily consider it a sacrifice.
    InkSplat wrote: »
    I mean, I know it'll never happen, but still. Being able to switch from iPad to Air on-demand would just be fantastic.
    Yeah, that was the general idea. The only real problem of a single 180 tilt hinge instead of a tilt/rotate combo hinge is the potential to scratch the "back" screen. But I tend to feel it would be worth it, especially if the thing automatically changed modes too bringing up an app screen when folded back, like how Lion will have the iPad-like layer as a virtual desktop, but was still just as capable of running full applications folded over, which you could access with a gesture.

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  • SenshiSenshi Registered User
    edited October 2010
    To be fair, as long as it doesn't stop me doing the shit I already do (which it won't), I welcome it with open arms.

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  • DeathPrawnDeathPrawn Registered User
    edited October 2010
    The iPad has inadvertently made the argument for and against content creation; it's a fairly binary choice, and you're either doing it or you're not. The Air, in no uncertain terms, is not a machine built for creation; it has no optical capabilities, it has a very limited processing power, and it has a small amount of native storage. Yet it is priced at the same point as models better suited to content creation while only offering the questionable virtues of slightly reduced dimensions and HD speed. And since when has a smaller screen been a virtue on a content creation device?

    You're putting 'content creation' on some bizarre pedestal, like there are important and highly specific requirements one's tools must meet before one is allowed the holy privilege of creating pure and unadulterated content!

    I've used Photoshop on a 7" netbook with a SSD and no optical drive. I've comfortably done serious coding on the same machine. Does that somehow make my code invalid?

    What if I told you I was writing this post from my iPad? Add in a keyboard and a stand and it becomes a pretty damn useful word processing machine, and its footprint is far less than even said netbook. Have you seen the videos of people DJing live sets using iPads? The art David Hockney has made using it?

    A smaller screen is not inherently a 'virtue' of a 'content creation' device, no. But sometimes I like to bike to the coffee shop to get work done without having to lug my 15" laptop along in my bag.

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  • RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Anyone ever set up a site using iWeb? My six-year-old has been bugging me for his own website and I think he'd be able to update/manage it pretty easily with something like that...

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  • InkSplatInkSplat 100%ed Bad Rats. Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Well, in terms of the iPad's keyboard, it looks fuckdiculous. Wtf were they thinking having it be Portrait rather than Landscape?

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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited October 2010
    Even without a keyboard, just using the iPad, there are plenty of presentations, wireframes, emails, documents and whatnot on here and on the cloud that I have fully created on my iPad.

    You just can't use desktop content creation apps; but that doesn't stop people from making really good desktop content creation apps.

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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited October 2010
    Rothgarr wrote: »
    Anyone ever set up a site using iWeb? My six-year-old has been bugging me for his own website and I think he'd be able to update/manage it pretty easily with something like that...

    Its pretty easy...

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  • InkSplatInkSplat 100%ed Bad Rats. Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Even without a keyboard, just using the iPad, there are plenty of presentations, wireframes, emails, documents and whatnot on here and on the cloud that I have fully created on my iPad.

    You just can't use desktop content creation apps; but that doesn't stop people from making really good desktop content creation apps.

    Are there things like GIMP & Inkscape for the iPad? I mean, you'd probably need a capacitive stylus to use it effectively, but that'd be fine.

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  • floobiefloobie Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    On the Macbook Air: Considering how most people use their white Macbooks (Internet, E-mail, Facebook, maybe iPhoto, some word processing...), and don't even come close to using the power they have, I can see a lot of people going for a slightly less powerful Air instead. I don't want one. The next Mac laptop I get will probably be a 15" MBP, possibly to completely replace my aluminum Macbook and my gaming PC (which I use maybe once a week).

    On Lion: They didn't show very much, but I definitely like what they did show. The app store was inevitable, and I look forward to its release. Mission Control looks absolutely awesome. Launchpad... I'm not sure I'd use it. I'd have to play with it. I also like all the fullscreen stuff. Whenever I use iPhoto, I always do editing in full screen. I'd quite like that functionality extended to other apps.

    iLife: Looks good, but I probably won't buy it. I'm at the point where I'd rather grab Logic for music, and Aperture for photos (or Lightroom). And, I've literally never used iMovie. So, I won't go out of my way to grab this, unless it comes with my next computer of course.

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  • DeathPrawnDeathPrawn Registered User
    edited October 2010
    InkSplat wrote: »
    Well, in terms of the iPad's keyboard, it looks fuckdiculous. Wtf were they thinking having it be Portrait rather than Landscape?

    The keyboard works in either orientation.

    DeathPrawn on
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