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How do I do this? (Marriage/Relationship)
WildEEP
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Wow, I don't even know where to begin.
My wife and I have been together 6 years now - lived together 3, married for other 3. Our relationship was strained recently, and some close friends of ours mentioned to me that her attitude and our relationship seemed really abusive toward me.
I made excuses for her bad moods and ignored it until recently - when another set of friends sat me down and had a similar discussion with me - that they felt I was being abused, that it really hurt them to see me this way, and that I deserved to be happy. I didn't really believe what they were saying but I agreed to bring up some of their concerns with my wife.
The talk with my wife ignited a lightbulb above my head. We are both finishing degrees in college and she had always talked about wanting to get an advanced degree. She was either going to be a Doctor or a Lawyer - She has an undergrad in Political Science, and has taken the required courses to take the MCAT. Soo her plan, as she originally told me, was to take both tests and see which one she scored higher on - then she'd go do that.
That was about a year ago.
I asked her what her plans were and she told me that she never wanted to leave school and that she didnt want to go out and get a job. When I told her that everyone wants that theoretically, but the reality is that eventually you have to - the bills come do at some point. At which point she began to get angry and cry. She said that she liked her life as it was and that she wanted to stay at home and have my attention like its always been.
I asked her about a primary concern that the friends had, which was that she was isolating me from anyone else in my life. All my time had to be spent on her, either alone with her, or if I went out, it had to be in her company.
I asked her about her expectations of my time, and she said she wanted it all and she didnt want to share me with anyone. I made the case that I may need to associate with a single male friend for a random hour or two in order to maintain a professional relationship at the very least and...I'm not sure how to describe it...but she threw a temper tantrum. I mean a real tantrum - like a 4 year old throws when they ball up their fists and kick their feed and stop hard on the ground.
The whole thing was surreal.
We were exausted after the fight so I said that I had to go out and clear my head. That I needed alone time to sort thru it all. I sent a message to the friends to tell them what happened and how shocked I was that I had been so blind. How could I not have seen this? I put her to bed and said I would be available via phone and headed out.
The friends intercepted me - they were worried that I'd hurt myself, so they stayed with me during my freak out time. The wife woke up and freaked out - she was their alone and my friends were with me and she said that was unforgivable. She drove to my location in her pajamas and we talked inside the car while parked in a parking lot.
I was still comforting at this point - trying to make her see reason that if she didnt want to work then I would have to work more and then I wouldnt have the time that she demanded of me. If I wanted to spend more time with her, then I'd have to work less and earn less money. That I understood if the getting a job was scary or daunting, but that I would help her - and if she didnt want to be a doctor or a lawyer then we'd find something she could be interested in.
Then as I was hugging her, thinking that we'd made progress, she pulled back from me and said, "Why'd you have to tell your friends about it!?"......and then she hit me.
And no, I dont mean a tap..I mean she pulled back and punched me as hard as she could in the collarbone. Now, I'm not a wimp and I didnt collapse or anything..but it hurt, I registered it as hurting....then when the realization came in...it hurt alot more..just not in the physical way.
I've started to catalog my way through the years we've been together and I cant believe that I missed any of the signs - there were so many in hindsight...how could I have been so damn stupid? Everyone in my life has always commented on how smart I was....so how am I so fucking dumb?
I dont know what to do anymore - She's super sorry, but I dont think I'm ever gonna look at us the same way again. I dont know how to even break up with her - she has no job, her family is nuts, and she is totally dependent on me for attention and money. What do I do? Drop her off at a homeless shelter?!?
I still love her enough not to want to see her hurt herself or for her to be in pain..but I dont know what I can do for her. How is she gonna live day to day when she has no support structure whatsoever?
My wife and I have been together 6 years now - lived together 3, married for other 3. Our relationship was strained recently, and some close friends of ours mentioned to me that her attitude and our relationship seemed really abusive toward me.
I made excuses for her bad moods and ignored it until recently - when another set of friends sat me down and had a similar discussion with me - that they felt I was being abused, that it really hurt them to see me this way, and that I deserved to be happy. I didn't really believe what they were saying but I agreed to bring up some of their concerns with my wife.
The talk with my wife ignited a lightbulb above my head. We are both finishing degrees in college and she had always talked about wanting to get an advanced degree. She was either going to be a Doctor or a Lawyer - She has an undergrad in Political Science, and has taken the required courses to take the MCAT. Soo her plan, as she originally told me, was to take both tests and see which one she scored higher on - then she'd go do that.
That was about a year ago.
I asked her what her plans were and she told me that she never wanted to leave school and that she didnt want to go out and get a job. When I told her that everyone wants that theoretically, but the reality is that eventually you have to - the bills come do at some point. At which point she began to get angry and cry. She said that she liked her life as it was and that she wanted to stay at home and have my attention like its always been.
I asked her about a primary concern that the friends had, which was that she was isolating me from anyone else in my life. All my time had to be spent on her, either alone with her, or if I went out, it had to be in her company.
I asked her about her expectations of my time, and she said she wanted it all and she didnt want to share me with anyone. I made the case that I may need to associate with a single male friend for a random hour or two in order to maintain a professional relationship at the very least and...I'm not sure how to describe it...but she threw a temper tantrum. I mean a real tantrum - like a 4 year old throws when they ball up their fists and kick their feed and stop hard on the ground.
The whole thing was surreal.
We were exausted after the fight so I said that I had to go out and clear my head. That I needed alone time to sort thru it all. I sent a message to the friends to tell them what happened and how shocked I was that I had been so blind. How could I not have seen this? I put her to bed and said I would be available via phone and headed out.
The friends intercepted me - they were worried that I'd hurt myself, so they stayed with me during my freak out time. The wife woke up and freaked out - she was their alone and my friends were with me and she said that was unforgivable. She drove to my location in her pajamas and we talked inside the car while parked in a parking lot.
I was still comforting at this point - trying to make her see reason that if she didnt want to work then I would have to work more and then I wouldnt have the time that she demanded of me. If I wanted to spend more time with her, then I'd have to work less and earn less money. That I understood if the getting a job was scary or daunting, but that I would help her - and if she didnt want to be a doctor or a lawyer then we'd find something she could be interested in.
Then as I was hugging her, thinking that we'd made progress, she pulled back from me and said, "Why'd you have to tell your friends about it!?"......and then she hit me.
And no, I dont mean a tap..I mean she pulled back and punched me as hard as she could in the collarbone. Now, I'm not a wimp and I didnt collapse or anything..but it hurt, I registered it as hurting....then when the realization came in...it hurt alot more..just not in the physical way.
I've started to catalog my way through the years we've been together and I cant believe that I missed any of the signs - there were so many in hindsight...how could I have been so damn stupid? Everyone in my life has always commented on how smart I was....so how am I so fucking dumb?
I dont know what to do anymore - She's super sorry, but I dont think I'm ever gonna look at us the same way again. I dont know how to even break up with her - she has no job, her family is nuts, and she is totally dependent on me for attention and money. What do I do? Drop her off at a homeless shelter?!?
I still love her enough not to want to see her hurt herself or for her to be in pain..but I dont know what I can do for her. How is she gonna live day to day when she has no support structure whatsoever?
WildEEP on
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I don't want to say you owe it to her to give her a chance to work through her issues, but like you said you may be her only chance.
I think you deserve better. I feel for you, you are being abused, used.
You have a decision to make, stay and make it work. or cut your losses and run. Both decisions have their ups and downs, so it is up to you to decide what is the most worth while.
you are married, and I imagine you do care about her. That being said, you should both seek the help of a marriage counselor. If she is willing to work through this issue and make changes and come join the rest of the grown ups in the real world, then that is great.
If she is not, then please don't stay because of some ridiculous white knight complex. Life is short, and you deserve to have a chance at happiness and a chance to reach your goals. Doing so will only end up making you hate her, and yourself and god forbid you bring any children into it.. them too.
I hope plan A works out and you can salvage it. but be honest with yourself.
Good Luck!
She's gotta wake up and join the rest of us adults, she can't act like a toddler for the rest of her life and thrive. It's great that you don't want to abandon her or leave her in a bad situation, but you can't be her sole support in every way shape and form. She's gotta make some concessions, like even getting a part time job while she goes to school... maybe contributing to the household will make her feel less insecure and fearful?
Counseling can be a great thing if both parties are willing to take it seriously. You need to take it seriously if that is something you want to pursue. Don't be wishy-washy about going if she throws a fit. Tell her that you need an outside party to sort things out because you guys are obviously not doing it well on your own.
I hope everything works out for you.
I think heading straight off to therapy is necessarily the right answer until you've exhausted all other options. The OP says you've already tried to talk to her about this and that she didn't take it too well. It also says that she's feeling very sorry after the hitting incident. While she's in a forgiving mood, I would bring the subject up with her again. Not knowing her beyond what you've posted, I don't know how she'll react this time, but I know I would be more up for talking after I did something ridiculous like that.
Don't be accusatory when talking to her about this. Frame it in the context of saving the relationship. You're both on the same team here. Making it all about her is likely to cause her to withdraw into her immature shell even more.
If that doesn't work, then couples therapy (or maybe some solo therapy just for her, since it sounds like she might need some personal help) might be in order if you want to save the relationship. If you don't want to save it, then I have to agree with Fantasma. She is living in some kind of fantasy world where bills don't have to be paid and she is a princess that gets to have her way all the time. If the relationship ends, you are in no way indebted to her. You did your best and the relationship, for whatever reason, is over. She will have to grow up at some point, whether she is married to you or not.
Of course, that's all coming from the purely logical side of my brain. I know that if I was in your situation, I wouldn't be able to just drop someone I've been with without feeling terrible, no matter what had happened. Feelings don't just go away overnight. It's a messy situation and I hope you can get out of it mostly unscathed.
Keep us posted and good luck.
This is the biggest thing. She also sounds like she needs therapy outside of couples sessions.
Also, I'll say that you need to find a good counselor. Look for recommendations.
This mirrors my marriage so closely that it's scary. I think it's time to do some SERIOUS evaluation of your relationship. No one is going to stand up FOR you to your wife. You have to be the one to say enough. I think either way, you have a tough decision to make. I don't even know you, but I still think you deserve better, and I think your friends do as well. Heed them, if your friends didn't care, they would just write you off.
One day, I drew the line, and stuck to my guns. Once she figured out that the free ride was over we seperated. Once she figured out that I wasn't going to beg her to come back, we got divorced. I can't believe how miserable I was, and that I didn't realize how miserable I was.
No matter what happens, I wish you the best of luck
She needs counseling, and you should get some time away from her to figure out your position. The longer you stay the harder it's going to get through.
There is no "asking" her to go to counseling or therapy. If you want to save this relationship, you're going to tell her she's going to counseling or therapy, or both. That it is a condition of you continuing the relationship with her. Lots of married couples yell at each other. Physical violence isn't a line that gets crossed and shrugged off though. Otherwise, call a lawyer as soon as you can. This isn't the kind of thing that works itself out on its own, it just continues to get worse.
She has had issues for as long as I've known her - I was the one to originally suggest treatment - both the therapy and pharmacological routes. Shes been on meds ever since. Her issues never focused on me..just in general, but I guess since we've become so ingrained in each others lives - the general now effects me.
Shes already on anti-depressants.
Therapy has lapsed during the school year due to scheduling - but now its not a question. She has to go, I have to go, and we have to go together. All three of those...individually.
I've been so damn depressed the last 48 hours. I've gone over our past in my head, and another huge warning sign lept out at me. She hates it when I spend money. If I go out to eat, or I go shopping, or even get a soda from the vending machine. She watches the bank account like a hawk and grills me on any purchase she didn't make. At one point, we argued so deeply about it that I took out my debit card and cut it up in front of her.
When I asked her today about why she does that when money is concerned, she actually admitted that she did it for control. I asked her if she thought that we should be trying to exert control over each other like that, and she shrugged.
My thoughts are all across the board right now....I don't even know if she loves me or if she just loves the fact that I do these things for her/ do what she wants/ gives her what she wants. She likes me for what I do..not actually me.
I'm gonna call in for a therapy appt for me, and see about scheduling some couples therapy. I've told her that she needs to get an appt for herself - if she actually wants to change, lets see if she can make a single step like making a phone call.
I just dont even know the dynamics of how you'd leave someone like this. Its easy when you're single, you've got your own place, your own stuff, but now all my stuff is hers, and I dont know if I leave, or if I tell her to leave? What if she hurts herself?
I thought that if it got really bad and we broke up or seperated that I'd call her Dad and her best friend. Her dad is well meaning, but he's not all there due to TBI. Her friend would absolutely be there for her....but my wife doesnt like other people knowing how screwed up she is - so breaking the facade will make her even more angry.
...How did I let things get this screwed up?
That's great that she doesn't want other people to know how "screwed up she is", but she's kind of run out of options at this point. Above all else, you have an obligation to yourself to be happy, to be safe, to be loved. It doesn't sound like you have any of those three things at the moment.
Breaking that kind of cycle and that kind of controlling manipulative behavior is a big undertaking...and really... does SHE think she's doing anything wrong, or does she think how she treats you is fine and dandy? It takes a lot of work...is she even willing to do the work? Does she WANT to change how she treats you?
If she's not willing to work on things, or simply is unable to function in the relationship, there's no check list of how you go about separating. But don't stay in the relationship simply because you're afraid of separating, or what she might do to herself if you separate. You don't have to be vindictive, but you really need to primarily look out for yourself, otherwise you'll just get sucked back into the same behavior of feeling bad for her and her getting away with things she shouldn't.
But, now you see it for what it is and you can make a change. I sincerely hope that it works out, she gets better and you get to live a happy and fulfilling life.
If it doesn't, and you have to leave to preserve your sanity. Its not easy, because you love her and you are married. Talk to a lawyer, because she does own half the stuff. She may also be able to go after you for alimony, so you can't easily up and leave. The lawyer can point you in the proper direction.
However, to answer your question... you make it happen by taking action. As far as her hurting herself if you leave?... that's her deal, not your problem. Easy for me to say, I know. But true none the less.
Also, I'm not sure why she can't just go get an MD/PhD and get a career in academia. It's not easy, for sure, but it's hardly the aggressive change the corporate world is.
It's very difficult sometimes when you're so close to the situation. Too busy dealing with the trees and animals on a day-to-day basis to consider the forest that you've wandered into. While you need to remember what's happened and learn from it, it's also important not to dwell too much and blame yourself. There are important things in the present and immediate future that you need to be focusing on too.
First, count your blessings. By blessings, I mean those friends that pulled you aside and said something. You're fortunate to have people like that in your life. Don't be depressed. Would you rather be right here, where you are now, or 'blissfully' unaware of your situation? Consider this progress, and a step toward reclaiming your life.
Second, since it appears that you're going to give her a chance to redeem herself, clearly delineate to yourself (perhaps with the help of a therapist and/or your friends) what you need to see and receive for this relationship to be salvaged. You can't make excuses if she doesn't meet your needs anymore.
Whether or not you choose to forgive her is your choice, but you owe it to yourself to recognize the reality that there is a point where the relationship itself simply does not belong in your life. You have to be prepared to end things if you need to. You owe it to yourself to not allow your life to be dragged down because you feel obligated to save this person. You sound like a pretty decent guy, and you obviously care for her, but you have to take care of yourself here first, then her if she's a willing partner in a functioning relationship.
Best of luck, to both of you.
Kudos on you for trying to save everything. Are you guys religious? Perhaps a priest or similar figure may be some help. Works for some folks, not for all.
Also, if she really is watching your bank account that closely create a separate one with a few bucks in it just to have in case this all collapses in a tirade of ridiculousness. In the military this happens a TON. Spouses fight, one spends like 90% of their savings etc etc. If you can have the bank put a limit on how much she can take out daily and set it up so you get a call if she hits that limit.
Also, you can put a 'watch' on your credit to prevent her from opening additional credit cards, etc.
I know she hasn't shown signs of doing this persay, but its a very quick slippery rope. Especially where she's already struck you and admitted to trying to control you through finances.
There are forumers who can tell you horror stories about things like this happening to them. Definitely be watchful.k If you don't have a prenup you really should talk to an attorney ASAP.
I'll be honest, I take marriage ridiculously seriously, and believe you should do anything humanly possible to work out problems in a marriage, and use divorce as a LAST resort....UNLESS there was cheating and/or emotional/physical abuse. You've obviously been emotionally and mentally abused, and are now being physically abused as well.
I know what it's like to be mentally abused, and walking around with blinders on, but as soon as an ill hand was laid on me, I'd be out the door so fast. You need to take everything into account. How she likes being in control, how you HAVE to be around her 24/7 to the point where if you hang out with your buddies, she freaks and drives up in her PJs, how she PUNCHED you! Do you really want to be in a marriage that makes you absolutely miserable and doesn't allow you to have friends?
Check out my art! Buy some prints!
We're both mid to late 20s
no worries - thanks to a thoughtful divorce judge you'll continue to pay her way through spousal support!
Definitely call the police to get the abuse on record regardless of what else you do though. You are, unfairly, going to be at a disadvantage in whatever course you decide to take unless you start documenting everything. People are biased against believing males can be abused by females in society, especially physically, so you're going to be fighting an uphill battle against prejudice. Just keep your cool and spend time with supportive people, your friends or family who can be for you right now.
The situation really sucks, I hope everything works out for you.
I know you're on the precipice here, and I'm sure you can imagine what my opinion on the matter is, so I'll just echo Iceman's advice here. Get your own bank account now. Start saving up. Make it explicitly clear with the bank that you, and you alone, are to have access to said account. If you decide that you're going to remain in the relationship, at least for the foreseeable future, start reasserting control over your life. And step one of that is to manage your own finances.
Schedule one night a week that you are absolutely, unambiguously going out with friends, and that she is not coming along.
Make it clear that if she values the marriage and wants it to continue, step one, before anything else, even counseling, is letting you live your own life.
Seriously. Reverse this and there's three pages of LEAVE HIM!
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Counseling may work, but is she worth it? Is it worth it to you to have this relationship? Are you happy? Looking back on it with your eyes wide open now, have you ever been happy or have you just been kidding yourself?
There's no reason for her to hit you. Ever. There's no reason for you to take abuse, be it physical or emotional.
I have a feeling it will be a waste of time and energy for you to try counseling. She'll likely just do the bare minimum to keep you, not really changing, just putting up a facade. There is a chance that she'll change for the better and suddenly start living her own life due to counseling. But, let's face it, there's not much of one.
And, there's no nobility in sticking it out simply because you're afraid for her. She has to make her own decisions and if hurting herself is her choice it will probably happen regardless of whether or not you leave.
If nothing else, the reason to try marriage and individual counseling is to make the divorce proceedings that much cleaner.
This is a good point, and something I (somehow) forgot to mention in my post. OK, so maybe a full-on punch didn't hurt you TOO much, but she still got angry enough to want to cause you physical harm. I don't want to jump into sensationalism, but it might not be a punch if there's a next time. She might throw something. She might get angry at dinner while she's holding sharp implements intended to cut and puncture things. The whole 'physical abuse' aspect should not be glossed over just because you can take a punch.
Edit:
See my comment above regarding sharp objects. Even a throw dish or something like that can cause harm/damage. It's not like a physically abusive situation is a boxing match that's regulated to fists.
Definitely. I remember one D&D thread about horrible boy/girlfriend stories and one guy told a tale of how his abusive girlfriend smashed him in the back of the head with a snowglobe. Why? Because it was his birthday and she became convinced that he was trying to guilt her for forgetting it. They argued, he turned to leave the bedroom and she cracked him one. To top it off, she managed to convince him that it had all been his fault while he was still groggy and out of it at the hospital.
Household objects can really level the playing field as far as being able to hurt a person goes.
She hit you. I understand you want to help her but hiding this from your friends and family is just laying the burden on yourself, and leaves you open to the possibility of escalation. She has made no effort to show that she won't again and you sticking around is simply tacit approval for her to go about her merry business.
Money, stuff, friends, whatever doesn't matter right now, you'll eventually figure it out. Right now you need to demonstrate how serious you are about her needing professional help by holding her accountable for her actions like a grown-ass adult.
For your safety and your sanity, find a safe place to be before this becomes a cycle of violence.
Sure, she's sorry now. Abusers are often genuinely contrite. But being sorry doesn't mean they aren't going to hit you again, worse than before (either literally or emotionally). I've seen this pattern time and time again--the abuser hits the spouse, OMG the abuser is soooo sorry, the spouse goes back to the abuser, the abuser is really nice for a few weeks or months, then hits them again. Rinse and repeat.
I remember one where the guy was asleep on the couch and this somehow pissed off his girlfriend, who smeared a dirty diaper on his face. And if I recall correctly, later BROKE DOWN A DOOR after he locked himself in another room.
Besides which, if she has enough finesse with emotional abuse and monetary control, she doesn't NEED to punch him to make his life miserable and control him.
Admittedly I have zero tolerance for physical violence
But that combined with the other extremely controlling behavior (and her nonchalant attitude about it) are more than enough reason to get the fuck out, pronto
This is not your fault
There's also the need to document what happened to him ASAP because he may need that in case of a divorce and in case she goes off her rocker and makes false allegations against him. It wouldn't be the first time someone did that.
This is especially true when she finally realizes that OP is going to pull out of the relationship. Crazy people have a tendency to escalate pretty quickly down the path of "fuck up your life". Although I disagree with your advice to be careful of the police, I do agree that he needs to take steps ASAP to ensure that any damage she can do is minimized by taking steps to secure his own well-being.
I'm pretty strong towards filing a report, because if she comes at him with a knife next time and he actually puts his hands on her to defend himself he could end up in jail because the police have no prior knowledge of the environment he's in.
Get yourself secured, sort the relationship issues out afterward.
It would be more like leave him and call the police.
To the OP: Recognize one thing, you are not responsible for fixing your partner. Obviously she's got issues, the depression, a completely unreasonable expectation of how your time and hers is spent, etc. She's a manipulative, abusive person who has now strayed into physical violence. You are not responsible for what actions she might take once you leave. Your first priority has to be to preserve your own well-being, both physical and mental. Have a look at this and compare it to your wife's behaviour.
Honestly, I think the best thing you can do for yourself, and maybe for her, is to get out of the relationship post-haste.
And yes, their is a giant difference between a man and a woman doing this. That's society. Deal with it. She didn't punch him in the face, she slugged him in the chest after he "betrayed her trust".
People saying "OMG, this is abuse!!! Get out!!! Call the police!!!" need to reevaluate a little.
If you want to make it work, have a good long talk with her and see about attending counseling sessions. That's about it.
When you combine a pattern of manipulative behaviour with possible physical violence, then you've got an abusive relationship, regardless of whatever combination of genders are involved.
I never said the entire relationship wasn't abusive, I just said flying off the handle about getting slugged like that is a little much.
Besides, we're only getting one side of the story here. Take everything with a grain of salt. Like I said, they should probably look into counseling, if she's not willing, then he should probably leave her. But he shouldn't go running for the hills and calling the police about it.
Based on the way the OP described it, that's violence. I've hit friends and I've had friends hit me before and never would I describe it as pulling back and punching as hard as we could.