And I want to mention that Valle is in charge of the LevelupLive stream. It's a good look for him to demand a clean commentary. He understands that catchphrases, "niggas" and other bullshit does not help the perception of the FGC for a larger potential demographic.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Seth did do some commentary on the SCR stream, I believe during HDR finals.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Seth did do some commentary on the SCR stream, I believe during HDR finals.
I actually haven't watched any SCR yet (speaking of, anyone know a good place to watch?) I usually don't check out HDR but that sounds worth it right now even.
Every commentary is pretty much shit after Adam Sessler's godlike performance at EVO.
.
I have roommates that watched with me and actually say things like that. It's understandable though, because they know as much about the game as he did.
I don't really understand why people who frequent sites/comics as vulgar as Penny Arcade are averse to harsh language on an internet video game stream. It sometimes seems that they're getting themselves offended on somebody else's behalf.
It's not that, it's just that I'm personally tired of the catchphrases and random profanity. It's not funny or cool/hip any more. I'd like for the FG scene to get bigger and gain more acceptance, and the more juvenile commentary doesn't help this.
It doesn't offend me personally, it's just my preference that streams keep the commentary clean, so as to attract a larger audience.
edit:
In fact I don't think anyone here takes offense. I just look at things differently since I've become involved in my local scene. And a large part of attracting new players is being inclusive and welcoming, as opposed to aloof and insular. I look at streams and ask if this is something I could be proud of, or show to new people who may be interested in the game. And in general, it's a lot better to have something like the EVO/SCR stream, because you show a more professional aspect of the FGC.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Its not so much that its offensive just that its stupid. I don't get "offended" by jerk offs running their mouths on a stream, but their shtick gets old pretty quick.
I don't really understand why people who frequent sites/comics as vulgar as Penny Arcade are averse to harsh language on an internet video game stream. It sometimes seems that they're getting themselves offended on somebody else's behalf.
It's not about the swearing, really. There was some swearing in the commentary at SCR too. If you can listen to commentary on some of the other streams and can't figure out why some people might find it juvenile and obnoxious, I don't know what to tell you.
I think the SCR commentary was largely boring. Drunken Ski was good but Ultradavid had like nothing interesting to say/add half the time. I like TS commentary. Yipes, Cen, Kuma, Tinshi, Spooky, and Hu are all great IMO.
I don't think the 'style' of commentary has any (significant) impact on viewership. People watch because of the players/game involved. Making the commentary cleaner (or dirtier) isn't going to make fighting games any more 'presentable' to the masses. This isn't Korea.
I enjoy the fountain of memes and energy that is the Marvel East Coast scene. That game would probably be intolerably boring for me to watch without them due to how stale high level play in that game is after a decade of being picked apart.
I did enjoy SCR's presentation very much, though. Well, except for James Chen still being reduced to a horrible broken record whenever he gets hyped at all.
"Are you kidding me? Seriously? Are you kidding me? Seriously?"
"Tokido, why are you so godlike? Tokido, why are you so godlike?"
I agree with Hiryu, Fig-D and Pancake. It's not that i'm offended, i'm not. It's just that it makes it seem juvenile and illegitimate. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but making something professional doesn't take away the "realness" of it.
Man, i'm not sure if any of this makes sense.
H*R on
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Its personal preference. I can see the appeal, and I don't mind it in small doses, but four strait hours of playing to the "stream monsters" just isn't my thing.
I've talked about it before, Team Spooky guys are cool to hang out with and such, but listening to their commentary is just irritating. It's fine when they are just playing games in their basement or something, but when you are doing the commentary/stream for a major event you really need to add some professionalism. I think that TS has a better stream but I mostly watched SCR just because it was so much nicer to listen to someone like James Chen.
I don't know that it's really a fair comparison to pit a stream where people are casual enough to toke on camera to a professional tournament. I don't need ultra professionalism on my casual streams so long as it stays out of my tournament streams.
The SF scene should take a page out of Starcraft 2 announcer, Sean "Day 9" Plott, and learn the difference in how to cast. He can be just as vulgar as the next guy, but when it's time for a larger audience event, the professionalism comes to the surface. Here's some examples of what I'm talking about:
Day9 casting a game that only the fan base will watch:
Sadly, the only announcer I've heard that even comes close to that in the SF scene is Seth Killian. Maybe we could get Day9 to announce SF matches? He brings it up quite often in his daily show so he might be game.
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Seth Killian/Chris Hu is my commentary dream team.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
...you are right of course, we all love Seth Killian.
Oh Chamberlain. I'm glad I know you well enough to understand that you're kidding. SC2 is so friggin' awesome to watch at high level play. MLG in Dallas this weekend was crazy good.
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I can't watch StarCraft because I'm terrible at it (incoming SF jab...). I can however listen to Day[9] because he's fantastic. I would watch golf if he was commentating.
No, really, how do people watch Starcraft? It's pretty uninteresting. And as someone that doesn't play it, the only amusing thing for me is commentators getting so excited over dull shit like someone scouting or building a unit that they start screaming.
Much like everything, it's an acquired taste. If you don't play the game or understand it, your enjoyment of it will be lessened. Since SC2 is a strategy game, you need to look at it more as a big picture. For example, when a player builds a tech structure that their opponent hasn't scouted yet, you know that they are going to have a huge advantage soon. The most entertaining parts of the game come in the micro battles. You just have to give it a try or watch with the PA members on mumble sometime.
Even SF4 has a lot of mind game stuff that casual fans wouldn't understand, like the infamous fully parry video from Diago. To a casual onlooker, it would look like a bunch of blue flashes and a lot of people going nuts because of it.
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Much like everything, it's an acquired taste. If you don't play the game or understand it, your enjoyment of it will be lessened. Since SC2 is a strategy game, you need to look at it more as a big picture. For example, when a player builds a tech structure that their opponent hasn't scouted yet, you know that they are going to have a huge advantage soon. The most entertaining parts of the game come in the micro battles. You just have to give it a try or watch with the PA members on mumble sometime.
Even SF4 has a lot of mind game stuff that casual fans wouldn't understand, like the infamous fully parry video from Diago. To a casual onlooker, it would look like a bunch of blue flashes and a lot of people going nuts because of it.
I don't think the Daigo Evo video is a good comparison. Street Fighter is about fighting in the streets, and there's something more viscerally interesting about it. Your comparison would be more apt if you were talking about how the high level game devolves into footsies, or how technically proficient you have to be to pull off EX FADC or 1 frame links.
If there were big, personal moments in SC2 that could compare to being Metsu Shoryuken'd, I think that would be more comprehensible to a non-player.
Much like everything, it's an acquired taste. If you don't play the game or understand it, your enjoyment of it will be lessened. Since SC2 is a strategy game, you need to look at it more as a big picture. For example, when a player builds a tech structure that their opponent hasn't scouted yet, you know that they are going to have a huge advantage soon. The most entertaining parts of the game come in the micro battles. You just have to give it a try or watch with the PA members on mumble sometime.
Even SF4 has a lot of mind game stuff that casual fans wouldn't understand, like the infamous fully parry video from Diago. To a casual onlooker, it would look like a bunch of blue flashes and a lot of people going nuts because of it.
Yeah, I understand the particulars of playing a multiplayer RTS, it's just not fun to watch, usually. SC2 isn't helped by being kind of visually bland, at least to me.
I used to watch Company of Heroes games, can't stand watching Starcraft.
Much like everything, it's an acquired taste. If you don't play the game or understand it, your enjoyment of it will be lessened. Since SC2 is a strategy game, you need to look at it more as a big picture. For example, when a player builds a tech structure that their opponent hasn't scouted yet, you know that they are going to have a huge advantage soon. The most entertaining parts of the game come in the micro battles. You just have to give it a try or watch with the PA members on mumble sometime.
Even SF4 has a lot of mind game stuff that casual fans wouldn't understand, like the infamous fully parry video from Diago. To a casual onlooker, it would look like a bunch of blue flashes and a lot of people going nuts because of it.
I don't think the Daigo Evo video is a good comparison. Street Fighter is about fighting in the streets, and there's something more viscerally interesting about it. Your comparison would be more apt if you were talking about how the high level game devolves into footsies, or how technically proficient you have to be to pull off EX FADC or 1 frame links.
If there were big, personal moments in SC2 that could compare to being Metsu Shoryuken'd, I think that would be more comprehensible to a non-player.
I thought about comparing it to footsies and stuff, but either way, it wouldn't look like anything special to an average on-looker. The biggest problem is that SC2 is an RTS, so by it's very nature is a slippery slope game. Typically, there is a big swing in momentum during the course of a game and the player on the losing end will lose because they can't recover. This is the norm, but comebacks are possible, just extremely rare. It's just the nature of the game.
Yeah, I understand the particulars of playing a multiplayer RTS, it's just not fun to watch, usually. SC2 isn't helped by being kind of visually bland, at least to me.
I used to watch Company of Heroes games, can't stand watching Starcraft.
Different strokes for different folks I guess. Fortunately, I enjoy watch SC and SF. They are both my favorite competitive games of all time, even if I can't play them at a top tier level.
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Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
How did I miss that? I thought I read this thread religiously. Sorry about that.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
So I played this morning with the xbox360 pad and actually got to Seth with Guy (was getting the hang of him but had to leave for work). I do think it may have been a blessing in disguise for the fight pad to come late, as the unreliable nature of even basic moves has taught me to put together combos just using basic attacks.
I struggled the last couple of nights on arcade runs due to faulty input recognition, but by the end of my run today I had beaten Sagat primarily with anti-air throws, low kick combos and jumping over him and back. It felt pretty good, even though it was just against the computer. I don't know much of the terminology I'm seeing over the boards, but I think I'm starting to get a decent grasp on the main fundamental gameplay and strategy elements.
I also really like Guy. I tried playing as Abel for a while and enjoyed it, but for now Guy will be my main unless there's some secret thing I don't know about.
I would actually avoid fighting the computer as much as possible. The computer doesn't react as a real person does, and can be really dumb sometimes. This is especially egregious at higher difficulties, as it becomes a combination of ludicrous reaction time coupled with extremely poor decisions.
Training mode is pretty good for practicing your execution, and for actually putting your skills to practice, try and find a real person to play with you and talk you through what is going on.
Try the IRC, there will probably be someone around to help.
Yes, I agree. Sit in training mode and work on your execution there. You can even set the dummy to attack you like the CPU, but in general, learn your combos and inputs in training mode.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Yeah I'll start doing that more in a few days, but for now I've just been playing arcade for achievements and to get a better feel for the game as a whole. Even though the computer doesn't act like a person, its not terrible for me to learn how to react to some things that I don't know are coming.
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TS commentary with shout outs to every bodies momma, SCOOOPS, and constant shilling for Mortons can just die.
And I want to mention that Valle is in charge of the LevelupLive stream. It's a good look for him to demand a clean commentary. He understands that catchphrases, "niggas" and other bullshit does not help the perception of the FGC for a larger potential demographic.
.
No. In fact, they removed it.
It doesn't offend me personally, it's just my preference that streams keep the commentary clean, so as to attract a larger audience.
edit:
In fact I don't think anyone here takes offense. I just look at things differently since I've become involved in my local scene. And a large part of attracting new players is being inclusive and welcoming, as opposed to aloof and insular. I look at streams and ask if this is something I could be proud of, or show to new people who may be interested in the game. And in general, it's a lot better to have something like the EVO/SCR stream, because you show a more professional aspect of the FGC.
It's not about the swearing, really. There was some swearing in the commentary at SCR too. If you can listen to commentary on some of the other streams and can't figure out why some people might find it juvenile and obnoxious, I don't know what to tell you.
commentary on a competitive hobby event with international coverage is not such a context
I don't think the 'style' of commentary has any (significant) impact on viewership. People watch because of the players/game involved. Making the commentary cleaner (or dirtier) isn't going to make fighting games any more 'presentable' to the masses. This isn't Korea.
I did enjoy SCR's presentation very much, though. Well, except for James Chen still being reduced to a horrible broken record whenever he gets hyped at all.
"Are you kidding me? Seriously? Are you kidding me? Seriously?"
"Tokido, why are you so godlike? Tokido, why are you so godlike?"
Etc. But that is a very minor nitpick.
I'm not entirely sure that it hurts, either. Acceptance among whom?
Man, i'm not sure if any of this makes sense.
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Day9 casting a game that only the fan base will watch:
Day9 casting a game as training for newer players and fans:
Day9 casting at Blizzcon very professionally, yet still keeping it fun:
Sadly, the only announcer I've heard that even comes close to that in the SF scene is Seth Killian. Maybe we could get Day9 to announce SF matches? He brings it up quite often in his daily show so he might be game.
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For fun?
...you are right of course, we all love Seth Killian.
Oh Chamberlain. I'm glad I know you well enough to understand that you're kidding. SC2 is so friggin' awesome to watch at high level play. MLG in Dallas this weekend was crazy good.
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Even SF4 has a lot of mind game stuff that casual fans wouldn't understand, like the infamous fully parry video from Diago. To a casual onlooker, it would look like a bunch of blue flashes and a lot of people going nuts because of it.
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I don't think the Daigo Evo video is a good comparison. Street Fighter is about fighting in the streets, and there's something more viscerally interesting about it. Your comparison would be more apt if you were talking about how the high level game devolves into footsies, or how technically proficient you have to be to pull off EX FADC or 1 frame links.
If there were big, personal moments in SC2 that could compare to being Metsu Shoryuken'd, I think that would be more comprehensible to a non-player.
Yeah, I understand the particulars of playing a multiplayer RTS, it's just not fun to watch, usually. SC2 isn't helped by being kind of visually bland, at least to me.
I used to watch Company of Heroes games, can't stand watching Starcraft.
I thought about comparing it to footsies and stuff, but either way, it wouldn't look like anything special to an average on-looker. The biggest problem is that SC2 is an RTS, so by it's very nature is a slippery slope game. Typically, there is a big swing in momentum during the course of a game and the player on the losing end will lose because they can't recover. This is the norm, but comebacks are possible, just extremely rare. It's just the nature of the game.
Different strokes for different folks I guess. Fortunately, I enjoy watch SC and SF. They are both my favorite competitive games of all time, even if I can't play them at a top tier level.
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I struggled the last couple of nights on arcade runs due to faulty input recognition, but by the end of my run today I had beaten Sagat primarily with anti-air throws, low kick combos and jumping over him and back. It felt pretty good, even though it was just against the computer. I don't know much of the terminology I'm seeing over the boards, but I think I'm starting to get a decent grasp on the main fundamental gameplay and strategy elements.
I also really like Guy. I tried playing as Abel for a while and enjoyed it, but for now Guy will be my main unless there's some secret thing I don't know about.
Training mode is pretty good for practicing your execution, and for actually putting your skills to practice, try and find a real person to play with you and talk you through what is going on.
Try the IRC, there will probably be someone around to help.
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