Serious question though, why don't we do character lock tournaments here?
Because that's retarded?
Character lock tournaments are silly. Theres no reason to punish players for being able to play several characters.
If someone can come up with a convincing argument for why counterpicking is cheating, or why losing to someone who switches characters isn't a loss, we'll do a character lock tournament.
Let me save you some time. There isn't one.
It lets people who can only play one character feel better about themselves?
chamberlain on
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Serious question though, why don't we do character lock tournaments here?
Because that's retarded?
Character lock tournaments are silly. Theres no reason to punish players for being able to play several characters.
If someone can come up with a convincing argument for why counterpicking is cheating, or why losing to someone who switches characters isn't a loss, we'll do a character lock tournament.
Let me save you some time. There isn't one.
It lets people who can only play one character feel better about themselves?
Eh. Again, someone has to tell me how Ortiz cheated last night. Or how he didn't actually win, or didn't deserve to win. Because all I saw were wins last night, which is the only thing that matters.
People's feelings aren't as important as determining who is better at street fighter in a tournament setting.
Serious question though, why don't we do character lock tournaments here?
Because that's retarded?
Character lock tournaments are silly. Theres no reason to punish players for being able to play several characters.
If someone can come up with a convincing argument for why counterpicking is cheating, or why losing to someone who switches characters isn't a loss, we'll do a character lock tournament.
Let me save you some time. There isn't one.
It lets people who can only play one character feel better about themselves?
Eh. Again, someone has to tell me how Ortiz cheated last night. Or how he didn't actually win, or didn't deserve to win. Because all I saw were wins last night, which is the only thing that matters.
People's feelings aren't as important as determining who is better at street fighter in a tournament setting.
Your sarcasm detectors need calibrating, it was a joke.
Having one tournament quality character ready at a time is a disadvantage and Ricky would have been foolish not to take advantage of it. His Chun was nothing spectacular, but it was good enough.
I still wanted Vangeif to win, but that was just me.
chamberlain on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
So I think I like Guile more than Boxer
Zen Vulgarity on
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
I realize that, but it seems like an argument that someone would actually use so I felt I would just squelch it there (if not phrased exactly that way). The only thing that matters is winning, and if the player beats you, he beat you regardless of with which character, or which character is his main. It's kind of amazing that Vangief keeps not running into Chun's, because like you said, Ortiz wasn't amazing. He needs to either figure out a way to deal with that matchup, or get a new character to deal with it.
@Hiryu: Oh, god, the blood soup. The one I was thinking of was Dinuguan. Luckily, we're also Native American, so I can always fall back on baked potatoes, corn and buffalo burgers.
still don't know what's up whith grapplers. in fact, i get thrown a lot for reasons i'm tempted to call online.
2 weeks to go. top gouken will be mine. i would make some nanaimo bars as a prize, but i'm not sure if they'd get through the border.
It absolutely can be blamed on online lag. Every time you have me in a block string, I will mash out as many throw commands as I can so that if you so much as give me a single frame opening I will grab you.
The other thing to keep in mind is that if you're holding up you're in a jump state even before you leave the ground. So if you expect a throw, just start jumping away before it actually comes out. Plus, Zangief and T Hawk have surprising grab range. Hakan is tricky, because his grab range extends as he gets oiled.
Instant air axe kick sounds great. I'm hoping she becomes more viable because I do enjoy how she plays in super.
My favorite part of these changes is that she now has a way to break focus. If they'd just extend the invincibility frames of EX orochi to overlap active frames her wakeup would be respectable. I'd also like to see the range or speed on karakusa increased, but that would actually make her good.
I dunno, I'm kind of torn on the whole character-lock subject.
On one hand, I can see the validity of not wanting to punish those who can play multiple characters, but on the other hand I do like the idea of having one character that defines you. This is the best I got and I will do whatever it takes to overcome bad matchups, etc.
It just seems more...I dunno, honorable or something. I tend to respect players like Vangief and Juicebox for sticking to their guns. They are 100% into their character.
On the third hand, I rememeber watching Arturo vs. Sanford in a grand finals match a while back and both of them just kept changing characters back and forth throughout the whole set. That was kind of cool but a rarity.
In my opinion, everyone should play every character at some point instead of only focusing on just one. It makes you better with your main by understanding the weaknesses of your opponent more and adds variety to matches. If I'm playing the same guy online in a room and he only plays one character, I'm out of that lobby after 3-4 games.
The whole situation boils down to winning vs. not caring. There is nothing wrong with either mindset.
I enjoy playing the game and hate losing like everyone else. But you will never see me enter a tournament that requires an entry fee because I simply cannot hang with higher skilled players. This is because: 1) I don't have enough free time any more to practice 1 frame links, FADC -> ultras, and advanced footsies and 2) I don't care about being the best, only about having a good time for both myself and my opponents.
Here's a perfect example of how I like to play SF:
I made a lot of mistakes in the matches (throws instead of b&b combos, lots of jumping, etc) but still had a good time and to me that's all that matters in the end.
MNC Dover on
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Nothing too terrible though. I had grown tired of U2, so that's no biggie. Soulless is still good even with a damage reduction. Not 100% sure why c.HP was nerfed. Guess the damage potential was too good? Less damage on TT? As long as its properties haven't been messed with i'm okay with that too. I don't understand what they're doing to his roll though. Did they just make it easier to hit Abel out of his roll?
Makoto's changes sound very nice. Maybe i can bring her out of retirement again. Sounds like they're trying to give her some good anti-airs. I still wished they would increase her command throw range, the speed it comes out, and/or the recovery. But i guess that's being greedy.
Also, i have a question about Cammy:
Which DP are you supposed to use in combos and which do you use as a "get off me". Light, Medium, or Hard Kick?
I'm so excited, I get to fight in the streets today and tomorrow. If you see me on xbl or psn, hit me up. I'll be super rusty, haven't played in almost 2 months.
Man, Im blown away Vangief almost took NCR. Real testament to his skill right?
On the note of Gen changes, all he needs is his ex invulnerability on his oga back and his damage potential back... Damnit Capcom, you ain't listening!
StokedUp on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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You aren't supposed to use her dp in combos. It only does 100 damage. Use her spiral arrow instead either to punish or after a hit confirm.
As a reversal I would use light, since it has the least recovery if it whiffs and does the same dmg, but I'm not sure.
Yeah, never use DP in combos. There's no good way to hit confirm into dp FADC ultra either (there are ways, but it does comparable damage to her meterless combos due to scaling), so seriously, never dp in combos. Even in vanilla when it did 150 vs 140 for spiral arrow, it was better to use SA because of the position it leaves you in.
As a reversal, basically never use light. It doesn't have invulnerability all the way to the hitting frames. Medium and hard both do. I always use hard, because the recovery is almost the same (it is the same on block, medium a little better on whiff but they're both so bad on whiff that it hardly matters), but hard will beat some things like Bison EX head stomp (for 200 damage lolz).
inlemur on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
How to I fight against the urge to sit and crouch all game
You're doing yourself a disservice if you're not entering tournaments because of some made-up skill barrier. Almost all of them are like your average Friday night fps pub server. Meaning that there are going to be maybe half a dozen players who have a legitimate shot at top 3, a few more who can make it on a good day, and the rest will be guys who just showed up because they wanted to and will go 0-2. Especially with a game as popular as ssf4.
Plus, playing in tourneys is just different from normal games. If you enjoy that then there's no substitute (except money matches).
I suspected that I was getting hit by a few mashed command throws. I know a lot of the people I've played in endless lobbies will just mash reversals all day long. I haven't quite figured out a block string that will effectively deal with them (mixing in more c. lks doesn't work quite so well, that shit is sloooow). Baiting is pretty easy, though, and a few of them learn quickly enough to make the games interesting afterwards. At least I won't have to deal with that stuff at NEC.
I suck shit, but, if there was a tourney around here I'd totally go. Just because it's more fun to have the fuckers kicking your ass a foot away than across the globe.
Stirred the pot a little more with my question than i expected, but that's alright.
Here's another one then, is Ricky truely the better player? Or is he the smarter player? Is there even a difference?
He's the more versatile player, which is exactly what allowed him to win.
Side note: I wonder who made him take off the nazi/bison hat...
Actually, I had been meaning to bring that up. What the hell was up with that hat? At first I assumed it was just a Bison hat with the Shadaloo logo on it, but at one point they zoomed in really close and there was a swastika on it, clear as day.
The Makoto changes aren't exactly what I was hoping for.
She's still going to get jabbed out of everything and her grab range still sucks. It's great that she can kara it out of another normal but maybe they should make her not have to kara her command grab to actually make it useful? I don't know, like everyone else with a command grab?
Normals
-cr.LK has more range
-st.LK is now kara-cancellable
-cr.HK attack box extended, and the damage box has been lowered slightly, making it easier to use as an anti-air
-cr.HP has slightly more active frames
-F+LP has a 3 frame startup (formerly 4 frames)
Specials
-EX Hayate is now armor-break, has a slightly faster startup
-Fukiage, when the arm is fully extended, the hittable box from her chest up is now barely there, while the attack box is extended, so there are now almost no cases where it trades or is stuffed. It still can't hit grounded opponents however. The start up for all versions have been revised (I'd assume to be faster)
-EX Tsurugi is now similar to EX Cannon Strike in what height the technique can be executed (instant EX Tsurugi?)
-UC1 damage distribution has been changed. It still does the same total damage, but because of the change, will do more when the scaling kicks in.
-UC2 has a faster startup
Other
-1000 Health
-The movement frames for forward and back dash have been reduced very slightly (making them faster). Because of this, now HP Hayate > FADC > cr.LK (and some other normals) > LP Hayate now combos. This vastly improves her mix-up game (throw or attack?)
So, uh, Makoto for top tier in AE? Every strong character has received significant nerfs. Makoto, while pretty bad in SSF4, really didn't need major buffs to be a strong contender, and it looks like she's getting significantly more than major buffs.
Tiger knee EX axe kick on its own is huge. Now she can blow up tech/throw attempts similarly to Rufus and Cammy, except she has a command grab to go to once people get the fear and start blocking. Also, unlike Rufus and Cammy (and Yun and Yang), EX axe kick is an overhead. She can't combo out of it, but it knocks down and gives her huge frame advantage on block.
Better antiairs? A 3 frame normal? 1000 health? Arguably the best dashes in the game made even better? A fast, long range, reasonably safe armor break? I'd like to hear someone who has spent more time with Makoto than me comment on all this, but she looks crazy good.
So, uh, Makoto for top tier in AE? Every strong character has received significant nerfs. Makoto, while pretty bad in SSF4, really didn't need major buffs to be a strong contender, and it looks like she's getting significantly more than major buffs.
No, she'll still need you to just block. Mash jab and she'll still lose.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
So, uh, Makoto for top tier in AE? Every strong character has received significant nerfs. Makoto, while pretty bad in SSF4, really didn't need major buffs to be a strong contender, and it looks like she's getting significantly more than major buffs.
Tiger knee EX axe kick on its own is huge. Now she can blow up tech/throw attempts similarly to Rufus and Cammy, except she has a command grab to go to once people get the fear and start blocking. Also, unlike Rufus and Cammy (and Yun and Yang), EX axe kick is an overhead. She can't combo out of it, but it knocks down and gives her huge frame advantage on block.
Better antiairs? A 3 frame normal? 1000 health? Arguably the best dashes in the game made even better? A fast, long range, reasonably safe armor break? I'd like to hear someone who has spent more time with Makoto than me comment on all this, but she looks crazy good.
All her major improvements you're gushing over cost meter and still don't get around fireballs at all. No increased range on her command grab, etc. I just see her becoming more Honda like, but having to work harder at damage and worthless without meter.
So, uh, Makoto for top tier in AE? Every strong character has received significant nerfs. Makoto, while pretty bad in SSF4, really didn't need major buffs to be a strong contender, and it looks like she's getting significantly more than major buffs.
No, she'll still need you to just block. Mash jab and she'll still lose.
What? Mashing standing medium is a built in frame trap that links and hit confirms into itself and will fuck up anyone mashing jab. Also she now has a 3 frame jab of her own that links into itself and is cancelable. I don't know what else you could ask for other than an SRK, which you knew she wouldn't get, and really is a pretty terrible answer to jab mashing anyway.
Posts
It lets people who can only play one character feel better about themselves?
Eh. Again, someone has to tell me how Ortiz cheated last night. Or how he didn't actually win, or didn't deserve to win. Because all I saw were wins last night, which is the only thing that matters.
People's feelings aren't as important as determining who is better at street fighter in a tournament setting.
Your sarcasm detectors need calibrating, it was a joke.
Having one tournament quality character ready at a time is a disadvantage and Ricky would have been foolish not to take advantage of it. His Chun was nothing spectacular, but it was good enough.
I still wanted Vangeif to win, but that was just me.
Haha, Abel.
edit: Counterpicking is wrong only if you choose Chun. Death to Chun!
It absolutely can be blamed on online lag. Every time you have me in a block string, I will mash out as many throw commands as I can so that if you so much as give me a single frame opening I will grab you.
The other thing to keep in mind is that if you're holding up you're in a jump state even before you leave the ground. So if you expect a throw, just start jumping away before it actually comes out. Plus, Zangief and T Hawk have surprising grab range. Hakan is tricky, because his grab range extends as he gets oiled.
Blanka has an overhead combo into ball now? That is almost worth the nerfs to river run and rainbow ball.
Almost.
Breathless nerfed
GOOD
Sounds like you like your fundamentals. Have you tried Chun Li and Dictator?
Also, Makoto changes are awesome.
Good
guile is way more fun.
My favorite part of these changes is that she now has a way to break focus. If they'd just extend the invincibility frames of EX orochi to overlap active frames her wakeup would be respectable. I'd also like to see the range or speed on karakusa increased, but that would actually make her good.
On one hand, I can see the validity of not wanting to punish those who can play multiple characters, but on the other hand I do like the idea of having one character that defines you. This is the best I got and I will do whatever it takes to overcome bad matchups, etc.
It just seems more...I dunno, honorable or something. I tend to respect players like Vangief and Juicebox for sticking to their guns. They are 100% into their character.
On the third hand, I rememeber watching Arturo vs. Sanford in a grand finals match a while back and both of them just kept changing characters back and forth throughout the whole set. That was kind of cool but a rarity.
The whole situation boils down to winning vs. not caring. There is nothing wrong with either mindset.
I enjoy playing the game and hate losing like everyone else. But you will never see me enter a tournament that requires an entry fee because I simply cannot hang with higher skilled players. This is because: 1) I don't have enough free time any more to practice 1 frame links, FADC -> ultras, and advanced footsies and 2) I don't care about being the best, only about having a good time for both myself and my opponents.
Here's a perfect example of how I like to play SF:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrUv70zgXiI
I made a lot of mistakes in the matches (throws instead of b&b combos, lots of jumping, etc) but still had a good time and to me that's all that matters in the end.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
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Nothing too terrible though. I had grown tired of U2, so that's no biggie. Soulless is still good even with a damage reduction. Not 100% sure why c.HP was nerfed. Guess the damage potential was too good? Less damage on TT? As long as its properties haven't been messed with i'm okay with that too. I don't understand what they're doing to his roll though. Did they just make it easier to hit Abel out of his roll?
Makoto's changes sound very nice. Maybe i can bring her out of retirement again. Sounds like they're trying to give her some good anti-airs. I still wished they would increase her command throw range, the speed it comes out, and/or the recovery. But i guess that's being greedy.
Also, i have a question about Cammy:
Which DP are you supposed to use in combos and which do you use as a "get off me". Light, Medium, or Hard Kick?
As a reversal I would use light, since it has the least recovery if it whiffs and does the same dmg, but I'm not sure.
It's probably the reason I hate him so much since that move is just STUPID.
God I want to fight in the street so DAMN badly.
I'm in this position way too often I feel
Whoops
I meant crouched down back down back
On the note of Gen changes, all he needs is his ex invulnerability on his oga back and his damage potential back... Damnit Capcom, you ain't listening!
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Uploaded SC2 Replays
Yeah, never use DP in combos. There's no good way to hit confirm into dp FADC ultra either (there are ways, but it does comparable damage to her meterless combos due to scaling), so seriously, never dp in combos. Even in vanilla when it did 150 vs 140 for spiral arrow, it was better to use SA because of the position it leaves you in.
As a reversal, basically never use light. It doesn't have invulnerability all the way to the hitting frames. Medium and hard both do. I always use hard, because the recovery is almost the same (it is the same on block, medium a little better on whiff but they're both so bad on whiff that it hardly matters), but hard will beat some things like Bison EX head stomp (for 200 damage lolz).
Here's another one then, is Ricky truely the better player? Or is he the smarter player? Is there even a difference?
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He's the more versatile player, which is exactly what allowed him to win.
Side note: I wonder who made him take off the nazi/bison hat...
If beating someone at the game isn't how we determine who is better, I'm not sure what the fuck metric is left to use.
It's not like you can even call it flukey. He won. Two sets. Convincingly. He was better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP10iWXRvZQ
Plus, playing in tourneys is just different from normal games. If you enjoy that then there's no substitute (except money matches).
I suspected that I was getting hit by a few mashed command throws. I know a lot of the people I've played in endless lobbies will just mash reversals all day long. I haven't quite figured out a block string that will effectively deal with them (mixing in more c. lks doesn't work quite so well, that shit is sloooow). Baiting is pretty easy, though, and a few of them learn quickly enough to make the games interesting afterwards. At least I won't have to deal with that stuff at NEC.
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Actually, I had been meaning to bring that up. What the hell was up with that hat? At first I assumed it was just a Bison hat with the Shadaloo logo on it, but at one point they zoomed in really close and there was a swastika on it, clear as day.
She's still going to get jabbed out of everything and her grab range still sucks. It's great that she can kara it out of another normal but maybe they should make her not have to kara her command grab to actually make it useful? I don't know, like everyone else with a command grab?
That was so sickening. The time and effort needed to get the timing right on that must be immense and for no real pay off.
Whatever. To each their own I guess.
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So, uh, Makoto for top tier in AE? Every strong character has received significant nerfs. Makoto, while pretty bad in SSF4, really didn't need major buffs to be a strong contender, and it looks like she's getting significantly more than major buffs.
Tiger knee EX axe kick on its own is huge. Now she can blow up tech/throw attempts similarly to Rufus and Cammy, except she has a command grab to go to once people get the fear and start blocking. Also, unlike Rufus and Cammy (and Yun and Yang), EX axe kick is an overhead. She can't combo out of it, but it knocks down and gives her huge frame advantage on block.
Better antiairs? A 3 frame normal? 1000 health? Arguably the best dashes in the game made even better? A fast, long range, reasonably safe armor break? I'd like to hear someone who has spent more time with Makoto than me comment on all this, but she looks crazy good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tE9m-PAbPg
No, she'll still need you to just block. Mash jab and she'll still lose.
All her major improvements you're gushing over cost meter and still don't get around fireballs at all. No increased range on her command grab, etc. I just see her becoming more Honda like, but having to work harder at damage and worthless without meter.
Maybe I'm completely wrong but...meh.
What? Mashing standing medium is a built in frame trap that links and hit confirms into itself and will fuck up anyone mashing jab. Also she now has a 3 frame jab of her own that links into itself and is cancelable. I don't know what else you could ask for other than an SRK, which you knew she wouldn't get, and really is a pretty terrible answer to jab mashing anyway.