+Hit doesn't make the game easier or harder, it just adds a layer of bullshit.
Think it out, though. What you're asking for is basically no diversity, just +damage.
I don't see how that follows.
+Hit isn't really diversity. Tactics is diversity. Choosing this spell over this spell is diversity. Having gear that supports X spell or Y spell is diversity. Having a 7% or whatever chance to miss is not diversity.
+Hit doesn't make the game easier or harder, it just adds a layer of bullshit.
Think it out, though. What you're asking for is basically no diversity, just +damage.
I don't see how that follows.
+Hit isn't really diversity. Tactics is diversity. Choosing this spell over this spell is diversity. Having gear that supports X spell or Y spell is diversity. Having a 7% or whatever chance to miss is not diversity.
There's no reason a level 80 person shouldn't be able to hit a boss. That's silly mechanics.
Now, not having enough damage to kill the boss before he blows his gasket, that's fine, but missing for the sake of missing is silly. It's kind of like +defense to get crit immune. It was silly, and ultimately, pointless. Another layer of bullshit to overcome to do anything useful. When you hit level 80 and can't go into naxx because you haven't hit some arbitrary number to actually be able to kill him, on top of having enough of the other arbitrary number to beat the enrage timer, that's a useless design layer.
They might as well just make the fight randomly insta-kill people based off RNG. Oh wait, that reminds me of a certain fight in Kara. Weird.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
If you cant hit the boss perhaps you shouldnt be there.
What are you even talking about now?
One thing that has been common since the beginning is content is gated depending on gear. If you are having problems with a boss perhaps you should improve on said gear. It is the standard for WoW raiding.
There's no reason a level 80 person shouldn't be able to hit a boss. That's silly mechanics.
Now, not having enough damage to kill the boss before he blows his gasket, that's fine, but missing for the sake of missing is silly. It's kind of like +defense to get crit immune. It was silly, and ultimately, pointless. Another layer of bullshit to overcome to do anything useful. When you hit level 80 and can't go into naxx because you haven't hit some arbitrary number to actually be able to kill him, on top of having enough of the other arbitrary number to beat the enrage timer, that's a useless design layer.
They might as well just make the fight randomly insta-kill people based off RNG. Oh wait, that reminds me of a certain fight in Kara. Weird.
I hit 80 now give me my end boss of the expansion purplez nao! Look I see where you all are coming from but if I want mechanics like this ill play on my XBox. In a MMO I want to work for shit.
So because I don't like +hit and miss chances... I'm having trouble killing a boss and I should probably improve my gear?
Okay.
It is not like it is going to be some hidden arbitrary number. When the content is released it will be well known on the interwebs how much hit and expertise is needed for cap on the new content. Work towards it and its not like if you dont have the hit cap you cant get into the instance. Your dps will just suffer. Check recount if you dont have the numbers for hit/expertise caps for that encounter and increase whatever number by that amount.
Stuff like armor penetration was done away with because it was less of a choice and more of a "you must stack this or not use it ever" which doesn't jibe well with the idea that every stat is useful and if you have enough of one stat you can make the decision to reforge or regem or re-enchant into one that is more powerful for you. Hit is not a binary decision like Armor Penetration was.
The boss leveling up with Hit further supports the "gear should be interesting/fun" thang.
There's no reason a level 80 person shouldn't be able to hit a boss. That's silly mechanics.
Now, not having enough damage to kill the boss before he blows his gasket, that's fine, but missing for the sake of missing is silly. It's kind of like +defense to get crit immune. It was silly, and ultimately, pointless. Another layer of bullshit to overcome to do anything useful. When you hit level 80 and can't go into naxx because you haven't hit some arbitrary number to actually be able to kill him, on top of having enough of the other arbitrary number to beat the enrage timer, that's a useless design layer.
They might as well just make the fight randomly insta-kill people based off RNG. Oh wait, that reminds me of a certain fight in Kara. Weird.
So now the issue is gating based on gear?
If you take out all stats with a cap (in other words, the only interesting stats to help you make gear decisions because it's not just 'stack it forever') and remove gear gating, you might as well just give everyone everything instantly. WoW is a game about acquiring better gear to kill better things. A part of this, just like every MMO and single player RPG that has come before it, is making good decisions about what gear you wear. If you want to remove those decisions so that the terrible players won't hold you up, then why have any distinguishing features between players at all? Why not have a truly level playing field where intelligence doesn't matter because you never have to consider a piece of gear when determining an upgrade?
I am not seeing how that's any different than it is right now. It'll probably make the game better because I don't have to teach people how to play or what to gear for and they won't have to read outside the game as to what's better, haste or crit and worry about being hit capped for spells or melee and which one they should worry about because maybe they have a spell.
Maybe you all just didn't play when Gearscore was a big deal or something.
So you basically want a super dumbed down button masher is what you're saying?
Actually using your brain and figuring out what you need makes it fun. Challenge. You can do well without doing a ridiculous amount of number crunching. Let the Elitist Jerks do that for you and then look to see what you need. Learning how to play is the best part. If you don't want that, go play Space Invaders.
And I've been playing since release, FYI.
The problem is, when other people's retard hampers my killing of the internet dragon. No matter what guild I go to there is always at least one that fucks it over for the rest of us. So, I'd rather them make it really easy for that one.
Maybe a quiz when you first start your character so they can decide if you should get the +1goodness version or the full stats version. People who read just EJ tend to be just as terrible, or, have outdated information.
Part of the problem is I don't think Blizzard has found the sweetspot when it comes to how challenging raids/instance should be versus how accessible they should be.
In TBC only a small percentage of gamers got to see anything beyond SSC. When you have two bosses nicknamed "The Guild Killers" that probably isn't a good thing. Especially when they're relatively early in the raid progression. I remember when the guild i was in dropped Lady Vashj our GM said something like "congrats - you've now done something only 15 percent of players in WoW can say they've done."
Whether the challenge was good or bad can be debatable, but I don't think you can argue there was a ton of content in the game that most players never got to see. That's not a good thing IMO. People pay for the experience and the content and should have a reasonable opportunity to experience most of it.
WotLK swung the pendulum too far the other way IMO. The instances are pretty dumbed down. Heroics are anything but. There's no more need for CC or any real thought in instances/heroics, with most fights boiling down to "collect all the mobs and AoE the shit out of them."
But the flip side of that is I'd say most people who want to have see the Lich King and been in ICC, to the point you'll regularly see ICC pugs (did you ever see an SSC pug? Black Temple pug?)
For Cata it sounds like they're hoping to get some place in the middle, but not really sure how to do it yet.
I am not seeing how that's any different than it is right now. It'll probably make the game better because I don't have to teach people how to play or what to gear for and they won't have to read outside the game as to what's better, haste or crit and worry about being hit capped for spells or melee and which one they should worry about because maybe they have a spell.
Maybe you all just didn't play when Gearscore was a big deal or something.
So you basically want a super dumbed down button masher is what you're saying?
Actually using your brain and figuring out what you need makes it fun. Challenge. You can do well without doing a ridiculous amount of number crunching. Let the Elitist Jerks do that for you and then look to see what you need. Learning how to play is the best part. If you don't want that, go play Space Invaders.
And I've been playing since release, FYI.
The problem is, when other people's retard hampers my killing of the internet dragon. No matter what guild I go to there is always at least one that fucks it over for the rest of us. So, I'd rather them make it really easy for that one.
Maybe a quiz when you first start your character so they can decide if you should get the +1goodness version or the full stats version. People who read just EJ tend to be just as terrible, or, have outdated information.
So because some people don't get it, you want to ruin it for everyone? Look for better guilds. I'm sure you can find a qualified group of 10 players. It's not that hard.
Here, I just quickly made a mock up of what the UI would look like with another tier of +hit (number made up of course):
It's not that hard to figure out, seriously. Just get +hit until all the numbers are 0 and you're good to go for the next raid tier.
The issue is that they want every stat on your gear to be valuable and as soon as you hit a hard cap that stat is no longer valuable. In addition, if a stat hits a hard cap early like hit does, then it makes it that much more possible to potentially hit the crit/haste cap later on down the road. By making hit scale they do two things: make hit valuable on the next tier's gear and keep power inflation to a more respectable level due to you still needing to take up relatively the same percent of your gearing budget for hit/expertise.
I am not seeing how that's any different than it is right now. It'll probably make the game better because I don't have to teach people how to play or what to gear for and they won't have to read outside the game as to what's better, haste or crit and worry about being hit capped for spells or melee and which one they should worry about because maybe they have a spell.
Maybe you all just didn't play when Gearscore was a big deal or something.
So you basically want a super dumbed down button masher is what you're saying?
Actually using your brain and figuring out what you need makes it fun. Challenge. You can do well without doing a ridiculous amount of number crunching. Let the Elitist Jerks do that for you and then look to see what you need. Learning how to play is the best part. If you don't want that, go play Space Invaders.
And I've been playing since release, FYI.
The problem is, when other people's retard hampers my killing of the internet dragon. No matter what guild I go to there is always at least one that fucks it over for the rest of us. So, I'd rather them make it really easy for that one.
Maybe a quiz when you first start your character so they can decide if you should get the +1goodness version or the full stats version. People who read just EJ tend to be just as terrible, or, have outdated information.
So because some people don't get it, you want to ruin it for everyone? Look for better guilds. I'm sure you can find a qualified group of 10 players. It's not that hard.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I guess I am just lucky. Ive been with the same core group of guys, good players, since the begining. And its not as if people dont have a bad day either. Ive seen people I know are good players, myself included, fuck up an encounter because of a bad day or just plain messing up.
For instance one of the best players I know decided to smack Algalon to start the encounter. He was a healer and got one shot thus ending our encounter. We just laughed and continued on. But we also got away from WoW being srs bsns a long time ago.
Here, I just quickly made a mock up of what the UI would look like with another tier of +hit (number made up of course):
I would just like to say that the calculator they added to that window is wonderful and I think it should eliminate a lot of the complaining about hit.
Since vanilla I have been in guild(s) that have always had at least 15-8-1 people, respectively, to fuck over the rest of us. For instance, knowing how to polymorph in ZG, knowing how to move out of the fire in any tier to date (even fucking chess, yes we wiped because of someone), knowing your god damned rotation (feral druid doing 2k dps in ICC with the absolute best gear on the server), using MS as a justification for your 1.8k dps in ICC when someone with MS was doing 6k dps and told you you were bullshit. Trying to get friends into your raid that are terrible because you're a GM. Getting yourself into the raid because you're terrible (GM).
These are just a small sampling of what I've dealt with in the past ~6 years in terms of raiding.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Blizz has already done so much to account for the lowest common goose that they made WotLK unfun. They're trying to move the dial back towards "you need to know what you're doing" in Cata and if you have 1 person in your raid shitting stuff up then you need to kick them rather than whining at Blizz to make everything easy enough so that one goose can play.
Blizz has already done so much to account for the lowest common goose that they made WotLK unfun. They're trying to move the dial back towards "you need to know what you're doing" in Cata and if you have 1 person in your raid shitting stuff up then you need to kick them rather than whining at Blizz to make everything easy enough so that one goose can play.
Or they can just get rid of something as terrible as hit. I mean they did it with defense didn't they?
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
So because I don't like +hit and miss chances... I'm having trouble killing a boss and I should probably improve my gear?
Okay.
It is not like it is going to be some hidden arbitrary number. When the content is released it will be well known on the interwebs how much hit and expertise is needed for cap on the new content. Work towards it and its not like if you dont have the hit cap you cant get into the instance. Your dps will just suffer. Check recount if you dont have the numbers for hit/expertise caps for that encounter and increase whatever number by that amount.
For fucks sake.
I know how hit and expertise work. When I raid, I have the required amounts.
BUT THATS NOT WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT. I'm saying they should remove +hit as a stat. When you have something to say that actually addresses that rather than patronizing me, let me know.
Since vanilla I have been in guild(s) that have always had at least 15-8-1 people, respectively, to fuck over the rest of us. For instance, knowing how to polymorph in ZG, knowing how to move out of the fire in any tier to date (even fucking chess, yes we wiped because of someone), knowing your god damned rotation (feral druid doing 2k dps in ICC with the absolute best gear on the server), using MS as a justification for your 1.8k dps in ICC when someone with MS was doing 6k dps and told you you were bullshit. Trying to get friends into your raid that are terrible because you're a GM. Getting yourself into the raid because you're terrible (GM).
These are just a small sampling of what I've dealt with in the past ~6 years in terms of raiding.
I'm not really sure how streamlining stats is going to fix any of those problems. Stupid people are always going to find new ways to be stupid, no matter how easy you make things. Might as well maintain some level of complexity so normal people can still enjoy themselves.
That one goose is why I wish I could find a new guild.
So sick of my guild, and their bringing shitty family members into the raids that are too busy drooling over the look of thier character to listen, learn, or understand what the fuck is going on.
If I here the one Paladin Healer ask his Tank Brother "Should I roll on that? is that good for me?" one more time over vent I may have to kill someone.
....Any Alliance guild want another Rogue? Please? I'll gladly pay transfer costs -_-
Reigner on
Exodus Server: Venstra Rei
FFBE: 838,975,107
Dokkan: 1668363315
Since vanilla I have been in guild(s) that have always had at least 15-8-1 people, respectively, to fuck over the rest of us. For instance, knowing how to polymorph in ZG, knowing how to move out of the fire in any tier to date (even fucking chess, yes we wiped because of someone), knowing your god damned rotation (feral druid doing 2k dps in ICC with the absolute best gear on the server), using MS as a justification for your 1.8k dps in ICC when someone with MS was doing 6k dps and told you you were bullshit. Trying to get friends into your raid that are terrible because you're a GM. Getting yourself into the raid because you're terrible (GM).
These are just a small sampling of what I've dealt with in the past ~6 years in terms of raiding.
I'm not really sure how streamlining stats is going to fix any of those problems. Stupid people are always going to find new ways to be stupid, no matter how easy you make things. Might as well maintain some level of complexity so normal people can still enjoy themselves.
This is the complete opposite of what I hear from people though, they don't raid for the loot, as I recall, so what if it just has "+85 to your awesomeness on it" instead of "+25 hit +30 crit +30 haste"? You're raiding to raid with your friends mirite?
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
So because I don't like +hit and miss chances... I'm having trouble killing a boss and I should probably improve my gear?
Okay.
It is not like it is going to be some hidden arbitrary number. When the content is released it will be well known on the interwebs how much hit and expertise is needed for cap on the new content. Work towards it and its not like if you dont have the hit cap you cant get into the instance. Your dps will just suffer. Check recount if you dont have the numbers for hit/expertise caps for that encounter and increase whatever number by that amount.
For fucks sake.
I know how hit and expertise work. When I raid, I have the required amounts.
BUT THATS NOT WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT. I'm saying they should remove +hit as a stat. When you have something to say that actually addresses that rather than patronizing me, let me know.
Since vanilla I have been in guild(s) that have always had at least 15-8-1 people, respectively, to fuck over the rest of us. For instance, knowing how to polymorph in ZG, knowing how to move out of the fire in any tier to date (even fucking chess, yes we wiped because of someone), knowing your god damned rotation (feral druid doing 2k dps in ICC with the absolute best gear on the server), using MS as a justification for your 1.8k dps in ICC when someone with MS was doing 6k dps and told you you were bullshit. Trying to get friends into your raid that are terrible because you're a GM. Getting yourself into the raid because you're terrible (GM).
These are just a small sampling of what I've dealt with in the past ~6 years in terms of raiding.
So now you're not even complaining about hit anymore, but about terrible players you're forced to group with.
Is it time to get off your lawn?
I mean, I thought the original argument was at least relevant: should hit be a stat you have to gear for when attempting raid content? I think the answer is yes. But really what the argument was always about is that, to you, other people are just dumb and anything that makes wow easier for them makes you less frustrated.
But really, if they removed hit, you'd still find something to be angry about with these "dumb" players.
What I hated is I play my rogue with my brother's paladin I was the person he wanted to bring to raids so I can get some exp I knew my class. But I jsut felt bad running with him to these raids
As for guilds why should i leave my guild of 4 on the horde? why? there is little I would gain by joining the next fly by night guild that pops up or I just continue to get on some other's lacking raids because of the relationship I have built with them over the years
Maybe on a PvE server, trying to quest in the zerged, lagging like crazy 80-82 zones will come out on top of spamming dungeons, but I could see it being the other way around on a PvP server.
Of course the fact that your average PUG DF group will be wiping in the dungeons doesn't help on that front.
I would think PVE servers would be worse for the overpopulated 80-82 slog, simply because you can't kill people tagging your quest mobs like you can on a PVP server.
the flip side to that, is on the pvp server you can go an hour and not get any quests done due to pvp
Pretty much this. It should take less time to just wait and kill your fast-respawning quest mob (especially if you can get people on your faction to group up for it) than to waste time fighting the other faction, being jumped while trying to fight something, and ghost running back to your corpse.
Since vanilla I have been in guild(s) that have always had at least 15-8-1 people, respectively, to fuck over the rest of us. For instance, knowing how to polymorph in ZG, knowing how to move out of the fire in any tier to date (even fucking chess, yes we wiped because of someone), knowing your god damned rotation (feral druid doing 2k dps in ICC with the absolute best gear on the server), using MS as a justification for your 1.8k dps in ICC when someone with MS was doing 6k dps and told you you were bullshit. Trying to get friends into your raid that are terrible because you're a GM. Getting yourself into the raid because you're terrible (GM).
These are just a small sampling of what I've dealt with in the past ~6 years in terms of raiding.
I'm not really sure how streamlining stats is going to fix any of those problems. Stupid people are always going to find new ways to be stupid, no matter how easy you make things. Might as well maintain some level of complexity so normal people can still enjoy themselves.
This is the complete opposite of what I hear from people though, they don't raid for the loot, as I recall, so what if it just has "+85 to your awesomeness on it" instead of "+25 hit +30 crit +30 haste"? You're raiding to raid with your friends mirite?
Then your tranforming WoW into something like FreeRealms which is also fucking retarded.
Jubal77 on
0
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
That one goose is why I wish I could find a new guild.
So sick of my guild, and their bringing shitty family members into the raids that are too busy drooling over the look of thier character to listen, learn, or understand what the fuck is going on.
If I here the one Paladin Healer ask his Tank Brother "Should I roll on that? is that good for me?" one more time over vent I may have to kill someone.
....Any Alliance guild want another Rogue? Please? I'll gladly pay transfer costs -_-
Heh, at least you get to raid. Seems like ever since Vanilla I have been screwed by guild drama over and over. I don't know how many good guilds I went through because drama or whatever broke them up. I thought I had finally found a great one in Wrath - we were doing awesome and we even got the Black Protodrake, but no, Yogg-Saron burnt out the officers and the guild broke up. Now I'm in a guild that will barely even talk to me in guild chat, I never get invited to raids at all and generally I absolutely hate them. I'm hoping to get out of that one very soon.
I mean, hell, I killed Lich King *finally* for the first time last night (no thanks to them!) and not one guild member congratulated me.
I am not seeing how that's any different than it is right now. It'll probably make the game better because I don't have to teach people how to play or what to gear for and they won't have to read outside the game as to what's better, haste or crit and worry about being hit capped for spells or melee and which one they should worry about because maybe they have a spell.
Maybe you all just didn't play when Gearscore was a big deal or something.
So you basically want a super dumbed down button masher is what you're saying?
Actually using your brain and figuring out what you need makes it fun. Challenge. You can do well without doing a ridiculous amount of number crunching. Let the Elitist Jerks do that for you and then look to see what you need. Learning how to play is the best part. If you don't want that, go play Space Invaders.
And I've been playing since release, FYI.
The problem is, when other people's retard hampers my killing of the internet dragon. No matter what guild I go to there is always at least one that fucks it over for the rest of us. So, I'd rather them make it really easy for that one.
Maybe a quiz when you first start your character so they can decide if you should get the +1goodness version or the full stats version. People who read just EJ tend to be just as terrible, or, have outdated information.
So because some people don't get it, you want to ruin it for everyone? Look for better guilds. I'm sure you can find a qualified group of 10 players. It's not that hard.
Ok Bowen, you've officially entered WHARBGLLLLEEEEEEE territory.
You're letting a game get to you way too badly. This is your issue. I've been in plenty of guilds with solid teams of players that completed plenty of raid goals. If someone is constantly fucking things for everyone else, they don't get to go on raids. End of story. It's not hard to find a guild like that.
No one is going to agree with you here. There are plenty of MMOs geared towards the pre-teen set. Go play those if you want the ez-mode you're suggesting.
Esh on
0
EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
That one goose is why I wish I could find a new guild.
So sick of my guild, and their bringing shitty family members into the raids that are too busy drooling over the look of thier character to listen, learn, or understand what the fuck is going on.
If I here the one Paladin Healer ask his Tank Brother "Should I roll on that? is that good for me?" one more time over vent I may have to kill someone.
....Any Alliance guild want another Rogue? Please? I'll gladly pay transfer costs -_-
Switch to Horde and come join the Beasts Of Unusual Size on Ravenholdt. Penny-Arcade guilds, FTW.
Since vanilla I have been in guild(s) that have always had at least 15-8-1 people, respectively, to fuck over the rest of us. For instance, knowing how to polymorph in ZG, knowing how to move out of the fire in any tier to date (even fucking chess, yes we wiped because of someone), knowing your god damned rotation (feral druid doing 2k dps in ICC with the absolute best gear on the server), using MS as a justification for your 1.8k dps in ICC when someone with MS was doing 6k dps and told you you were bullshit. Trying to get friends into your raid that are terrible because you're a GM. Getting yourself into the raid because you're terrible (GM).
These are just a small sampling of what I've dealt with in the past ~6 years in terms of raiding.
So now you're not even complaining about hit anymore, but about terrible players you're forced to group with.
Is it time to get off your lawn?
I mean, I thought the original argument was at least relevant: should hit be a stat you have to gear for when attempting raid content? I think the answer is yes. But really what the argument was always about is that, to you, other people are just dumb and anything that makes wow easier for them makes you less frustrated.
But really, if they removed hit, you'd still find something to be angry about with these "dumb" players.
Sure if you'd like. And you're right. Fucking deathknights.
Hit is still absolutely retarded, might as well take it off if it's going to scale. What is the point? People are going to need more of it each tier up, so, you've gained nothing other than wasting points on gear to accommodate hit. Or you could just lower the point allocation in the gear to eliminate the need to waste points so you don't get huge scales of power like we did in wrath.
I mean like I said, defense is practically the same boat except there was still a benefit of getting more defense past the crit reduction. It just was a stupid mechanic to require X amount of it to get anywhere and basically act as a cockblock for no reason.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
0
L Ron HowardThe duckMinnesotaRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
Need I bring up the example of the horrible lock in my guild who now has something like a 5800 gs that does 700 or so DPS?
Here, I just quickly made a mock up of what the UI would look like with another tier of +hit (number made up of course):
It's not that hard to figure out, seriously. Just get +hit until all the numbers are 0 and you're good to go for the next raid tier.
As I look at that, I can think of a good 10 guildies in my current guild who will look at it and say "What does skull + 1 mean?". The problem at Blizzard's end is how they convey the necessary information (If you're in x instance, this is your hit cap) in a way that's both clear and streamlined. Since part of the point of this overhaul was to ensure that there was enough information *in the game* to be able to make adequate decisions - without having to resort to EJ's theorycrafting, or slog it out on your own - but the sheer quantity of information they'll have to cram into that tooltip when T13/14 hits will be pretty expansive.
Regarding the more general hit discussion:
It'll depend on the stat weighting, but I suspect what'll *really* happen is that when a new tier hits, dps will reforge their least useful stat on every item into hit. That way, they'll probably be close to cap as soon as they enter the new content, but at the cost of some damage throughput stats.
Here, I just quickly made a mock up of what the UI would look like with another tier of +hit (number made up of course):
It's not that hard to figure out, seriously. Just get +hit until all the numbers are 0 and you're good to go for the next raid tier.
As I look at that, I can think of a good 10 guildies in my current guild who will look at it and say "What does skull + 1 mean?". The problem at Blizzard's end is how they convey the necessary information (If you're in x instance, this is your hit cap) in a way that's both clear and streamlined. Since part of the point of this overhaul was to ensure that there was enough information *in the game* to be able to make adequate decisions - without having to resort to EJ's theorycrafting, or slog it out on your own - but the sheer quantity of information they'll have to cram into that tooltip when T13/14 hits will be pretty expansive.
Posts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM
I'm sorry this is Abuse, you want the door down the hall.
I am a freaking nerd.
What are you even talking about now?
Now, not having enough damage to kill the boss before he blows his gasket, that's fine, but missing for the sake of missing is silly. It's kind of like +defense to get crit immune. It was silly, and ultimately, pointless. Another layer of bullshit to overcome to do anything useful. When you hit level 80 and can't go into naxx because you haven't hit some arbitrary number to actually be able to kill him, on top of having enough of the other arbitrary number to beat the enrage timer, that's a useless design layer.
They might as well just make the fight randomly insta-kill people based off RNG. Oh wait, that reminds me of a certain fight in Kara. Weird.
One thing that has been common since the beginning is content is gated depending on gear. If you are having problems with a boss perhaps you should improve on said gear. It is the standard for WoW raiding.
Okay.
I hit 80 now give me my end boss of the expansion purplez nao! Look I see where you all are coming from but if I want mechanics like this ill play on my XBox. In a MMO I want to work for shit.
It is not like it is going to be some hidden arbitrary number. When the content is released it will be well known on the interwebs how much hit and expertise is needed for cap on the new content. Work towards it and its not like if you dont have the hit cap you cant get into the instance. Your dps will just suffer. Check recount if you dont have the numbers for hit/expertise caps for that encounter and increase whatever number by that amount.
The boss leveling up with Hit further supports the "gear should be interesting/fun" thang.
So now the issue is gating based on gear?
If you take out all stats with a cap (in other words, the only interesting stats to help you make gear decisions because it's not just 'stack it forever') and remove gear gating, you might as well just give everyone everything instantly. WoW is a game about acquiring better gear to kill better things. A part of this, just like every MMO and single player RPG that has come before it, is making good decisions about what gear you wear. If you want to remove those decisions so that the terrible players won't hold you up, then why have any distinguishing features between players at all? Why not have a truly level playing field where intelligence doesn't matter because you never have to consider a piece of gear when determining an upgrade?
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Part of the problem is I don't think Blizzard has found the sweetspot when it comes to how challenging raids/instance should be versus how accessible they should be.
In TBC only a small percentage of gamers got to see anything beyond SSC. When you have two bosses nicknamed "The Guild Killers" that probably isn't a good thing. Especially when they're relatively early in the raid progression. I remember when the guild i was in dropped Lady Vashj our GM said something like "congrats - you've now done something only 15 percent of players in WoW can say they've done."
Whether the challenge was good or bad can be debatable, but I don't think you can argue there was a ton of content in the game that most players never got to see. That's not a good thing IMO. People pay for the experience and the content and should have a reasonable opportunity to experience most of it.
WotLK swung the pendulum too far the other way IMO. The instances are pretty dumbed down. Heroics are anything but. There's no more need for CC or any real thought in instances/heroics, with most fights boiling down to "collect all the mobs and AoE the shit out of them."
But the flip side of that is I'd say most people who want to have see the Lich King and been in ICC, to the point you'll regularly see ICC pugs (did you ever see an SSC pug? Black Temple pug?)
For Cata it sounds like they're hoping to get some place in the middle, but not really sure how to do it yet.
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I really want to throttle whatever employee thought having 3/5 mage tier pieces polluted with spirit was a good idea.
So because some people don't get it, you want to ruin it for everyone? Look for better guilds. I'm sure you can find a qualified group of 10 players. It's not that hard.
It's not that hard to figure out, seriously. Just get +hit until all the numbers are 0 and you're good to go for the next raid tier.
The issue is that they want every stat on your gear to be valuable and as soon as you hit a hard cap that stat is no longer valuable. In addition, if a stat hits a hard cap early like hit does, then it makes it that much more possible to potentially hit the crit/haste cap later on down the road. By making hit scale they do two things: make hit valuable on the next tier's gear and keep power inflation to a more respectable level due to you still needing to take up relatively the same percent of your gearing budget for hit/expertise.
For instance one of the best players I know decided to smack Algalon to start the encounter. He was a healer and got one shot thus ending our encounter. We just laughed and continued on. But we also got away from WoW being srs bsns a long time ago.
I would just like to say that the calculator they added to that window is wonderful and I think it should eliminate a lot of the complaining about hit.
These are just a small sampling of what I've dealt with in the past ~6 years in terms of raiding.
Or they can just get rid of something as terrible as hit. I mean they did it with defense didn't they?
For fucks sake.
I know how hit and expertise work. When I raid, I have the required amounts.
BUT THATS NOT WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT. I'm saying they should remove +hit as a stat. When you have something to say that actually addresses that rather than patronizing me, let me know.
I disliked the link achievement/gear score crap it turned into. I learn what to do the first time trough it's not that hard to play this game
I'm not really sure how streamlining stats is going to fix any of those problems. Stupid people are always going to find new ways to be stupid, no matter how easy you make things. Might as well maintain some level of complexity so normal people can still enjoy themselves.
So sick of my guild, and their bringing shitty family members into the raids that are too busy drooling over the look of thier character to listen, learn, or understand what the fuck is going on.
If I here the one Paladin Healer ask his Tank Brother "Should I roll on that? is that good for me?" one more time over vent I may have to kill someone.
....Any Alliance guild want another Rogue? Please? I'll gladly pay transfer costs -_-
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This is the complete opposite of what I hear from people though, they don't raid for the loot, as I recall, so what if it just has "+85 to your awesomeness on it" instead of "+25 hit +30 crit +30 haste"? You're raiding to raid with your friends mirite?
/hug
So now you're not even complaining about hit anymore, but about terrible players you're forced to group with.
Is it time to get off your lawn?
I mean, I thought the original argument was at least relevant: should hit be a stat you have to gear for when attempting raid content? I think the answer is yes. But really what the argument was always about is that, to you, other people are just dumb and anything that makes wow easier for them makes you less frustrated.
But really, if they removed hit, you'd still find something to be angry about with these "dumb" players.
As for guilds why should i leave my guild of 4 on the horde? why? there is little I would gain by joining the next fly by night guild that pops up or I just continue to get on some other's lacking raids because of the relationship I have built with them over the years
Then your tranforming WoW into something like FreeRealms which is also fucking retarded.
Heh, at least you get to raid. Seems like ever since Vanilla I have been screwed by guild drama over and over. I don't know how many good guilds I went through because drama or whatever broke them up. I thought I had finally found a great one in Wrath - we were doing awesome and we even got the Black Protodrake, but no, Yogg-Saron burnt out the officers and the guild broke up. Now I'm in a guild that will barely even talk to me in guild chat, I never get invited to raids at all and generally I absolutely hate them. I'm hoping to get out of that one very soon.
I mean, hell, I killed Lich King *finally* for the first time last night (no thanks to them!) and not one guild member congratulated me.
Ok Bowen, you've officially entered WHARBGLLLLEEEEEEE territory.
You're letting a game get to you way too badly. This is your issue. I've been in plenty of guilds with solid teams of players that completed plenty of raid goals. If someone is constantly fucking things for everyone else, they don't get to go on raids. End of story. It's not hard to find a guild like that.
No one is going to agree with you here. There are plenty of MMOs geared towards the pre-teen set. Go play those if you want the ez-mode you're suggesting.
Switch to Horde and come join the Beasts Of Unusual Size on Ravenholdt. Penny-Arcade guilds, FTW.
Sure if you'd like. And you're right. Fucking deathknights.
Hit is still absolutely retarded, might as well take it off if it's going to scale. What is the point? People are going to need more of it each tier up, so, you've gained nothing other than wasting points on gear to accommodate hit. Or you could just lower the point allocation in the gear to eliminate the need to waste points so you don't get huge scales of power like we did in wrath.
I mean like I said, defense is practically the same boat except there was still a benefit of getting more defense past the crit reduction. It just was a stupid mechanic to require X amount of it to get anywhere and basically act as a cockblock for no reason.
As I look at that, I can think of a good 10 guildies in my current guild who will look at it and say "What does skull + 1 mean?". The problem at Blizzard's end is how they convey the necessary information (If you're in x instance, this is your hit cap) in a way that's both clear and streamlined. Since part of the point of this overhaul was to ensure that there was enough information *in the game* to be able to make adequate decisions - without having to resort to EJ's theorycrafting, or slog it out on your own - but the sheer quantity of information they'll have to cram into that tooltip when T13/14 hits will be pretty expansive.
Regarding the more general hit discussion:
It'll depend on the stat weighting, but I suspect what'll *really* happen is that when a new tier hits, dps will reforge their least useful stat on every item into hit. That way, they'll probably be close to cap as soon as they enter the new content, but at the cost of some damage throughput stats.