That one goose is why I wish I could find a new guild.
So sick of my guild, and their bringing shitty family members into the raids that are too busy drooling over the look of thier character to listen, learn, or understand what the fuck is going on.
If I here the one Paladin Healer ask his Tank Brother "Should I roll on that? is that good for me?" one more time over vent I may have to kill someone.
....Any Alliance guild want another Rogue? Please? I'll gladly pay transfer costs -_-
Just an educated guess, but i think there's going to be some turmoil in WoW with Cata's launch. It'll be fine at the beginning, but come January/February there's going to be drama.
The above will certainly be one of those sources, because everything I've read in Cata points to "bad players will hold back their teams and guild, and a lot of people aren't going to be fine with that."
The other two?
- You have 25 men raiding in guilds now. Many guilds are going to move to 10 man teams. Who goes? And how do you divide it up? Do you have an A Team and a B Team? Or try to have to A.5 teams? Either way, people will get butthurt.
- People who are used to not needing a guild and doing their own thing either a) having to adapt to being in a guild again (and it possibly not going well) b) staying solo and QQing up the Blizzard forums about then not being able to raid any more (because i think PUGs won't be plentiful - both because guilds want the XP for their perks, and if the raids are harder they'll be less puggable).
Defense Rating wasn't removed because it was a stat that could cap out (it only had a sorta-soft cap), but because it enforced a minimum amount required to do anything. That was the issue. It meant you had to run heroics to get gear to get enough defense to tank heroics, which was stupid. It enforced an artificial barrier to becoming a tank.
Hit is nothing like this. Hit is simply a stat that is very valuable before the cap and not valuable after it. This makes for interesting gearing decisions as you must gear to stay at the cap as much as possible while maximizing your other stats. It's the same with expertise.
The big difference here is that you don't need to be hit capped to do your job. DPS can still DPS under hit cap. They just do less DPS. +Hit is just like +Crit or +Haste in that it simply increases your DPS. It just does so along a slightly different curve then some of the other stats.
Without these kind of stats, gearing becomes even simpler as it's just "identify your best DPS gain from Crit/Haste/Mastery and then stack the shit outta that".
That's a stupid reason to defend it. Because as it is, it's just "Get as much hit as you can, then stack the shit out of the other stat."
Defense Rating wasn't removed because it was a stat that could cap out (it only had a sorta-soft cap), but because it enforced a minimum amount required to do anything. That was the issue. It meant you had to run heroics to get gear to get enough defense to tank heroics, which was stupid. It enforced an artificial barrier to becoming a tank.
Hit is nothing like this. Hit is simply a stat that is very valuable before the cap and not valuable after it. This makes for interesting gearing decisions as you must gear to stay at the cap as much as possible while maximizing your other stats. It's the same with expertise.
The big difference here is that you don't need to be hit capped to do your job. DPS can still DPS under hit cap. They just do less DPS. +Hit is just like +Crit or +Haste in that it simply increases your DPS. It just does so along a slightly different curve then some of the other stats.
Without these kind of stats, gearing becomes even simpler as it's just "identify your best DPS gain from Crit/Haste/Mastery and then stack the shit outta that".
That's a stupid reason to defend it. Because as it is, it's just "Get as much hit as you can, then stack the shit out of the other stat."
Uh, no, it's not. You just proved my point because when you restated the gearing choice with hit, you had to make it more complicated.
Stuff like armor penetration was done away with because it was less of a choice and more of a "you must stack this or not use it ever" which doesn't jibe well with the idea that every stat is useful and if you have enough of one stat you can make the decision to reforge or regem or re-enchant into one that is more powerful for you. Hit is not a binary decision like Armor Penetration was.
The boss leveling up with Hit further supports the "gear should be interesting/fun" thang.
Hit is actually quite binary. It is by far the best stat until you cap it, at which point any more hit becomes 100% useless unless you're a dual wielder. Then there's the fact that you have two separate, independent hit stats for melee that follow the same binary principles. I can't say it really adds any interesting depth to the game. It's just a gear-juggling exercise when you're standing around in a capital city outside of raids.
It may shock and appall you to learn that some people actually find that gear-juggling exercise to add "interesting depth."
Some people think farming consumables is interesting depth too. Not quite sure what your point is.
Ok So a RL buddy and I are trying to start raiding guild alliance side on a horde dominated server. I have only been in pugs for raids but my friend has been doing it hardcore since vanilla. Any advise to get it off the ground? Not planning on doing anything serious till Cata and we already have vent and a website.
The difficult part about starting a raiding guild from scratch is in order to attract players that have any sort of skill and intelligence, you need to have some credibility first. So its kind of a catch 22 situation.
I think the best thing to do therefore, from a recruitment standpoint, is to lead raid pugs. You and your friend gather a group of people and lead a pug, showing everyone that you know how to organize, lead, explain fights, not be stupid...etc. After a (hopefully) successful pug, just drop a line that you are currently recruiting for x, y, and z and to send you a tell or go to the website if you're interested. Then when/if people bite, pick and choose what you want based on their performance in your raids.
My current guild started from a weekly ToC 25 about a year and a half ago organized by the current GM, her boyfriend, and a couple of their friends. They organized the first one as just a random collection of people and after our initial clear invited the good people back the next week. Eventually we had a solid group of 25 people and the decision was made to start a guild. I as well as many others was impressed with their organization and leadership skills, so we went along.
Once you've got your people, the problem then becomes managing them. A guild is very much like a business organization. You're going to have a wide variety of people that, per their resume, are all qualified to belong in your organization, but have different ways of going about their job, communicating, and interacting.
Don't be afraid to lay down the law when necessary, but remember that just because you're the boss doesn't mean that others' input isn't valuable. Decisions like raid times, when to call it a night, when to move on to a different boss after wiping 500 times, etc...should ultimately be made by you as the raid/guild leader, but input should be taken from everyone involved. People like to feel involved and that there input is valued by the organization (guild).
Constant communication is also important. I recommend encouraging people to regularly use your web site message boards etc. I also recommend that during progression raiding you as the leadership take a regular "pulse" of the group. "Are you satisfied with how we're handling loot?", "If you could change something that we're doing, what would it be?". These questions help you not only better understand how your guild is feeling, but also, again, make people feel more involved in decision making.
Its honestly scary how similar managing a guild is to managing employees at a company. There's a lot more work behind the scenes that regular members of the guild never see, so just be prepared and willing to do all that work.
It's an arbitrary cockblock that doesn't do anything. What is the point of it, exactly? There isn't exactly a hugely complicated difference between "stack the shit out of this until ####" then "stack the shit out of this forever." Sort of similar to defense, sure you could stack past the crit reduction but it was pretty pointless all around. You were better off not doing it. The only difference with hit is there was no bonus to going past it, but the DR on defense kind of made it as pointless as bringing a rogue who can't interrupt into vezax.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
All stats have improve an area(s) by a set amount. Hit in the expansion will be the method to lower the inflation on gear stats. Its simple enough to see. Tell me forty, and I am not being snide because I never have played melee in raids, what are the two independed hit stats for melee? White dmg and special attacks? Because I always thought that special attacks hit cap was extremely low. For hybrids you get hit with the spell cap but for pure melee I thought it was always just hit cap for white dmg that was capped.
Expertise is the other independent hit stat for melee. It has the exact same role as hit, and you want to cap it just the same, so it's really just a second hit stat.
Stuff like armor penetration was done away with because it was less of a choice and more of a "you must stack this or not use it ever" which doesn't jibe well with the idea that every stat is useful and if you have enough of one stat you can make the decision to reforge or regem or re-enchant into one that is more powerful for you. Hit is not a binary decision like Armor Penetration was.
The boss leveling up with Hit further supports the "gear should be interesting/fun" thang.
Hit is actually quite binary. It is by far the best stat until you cap it, at which point any more hit becomes 100% useless unless you're a dual wielder. Then there's the fact that you have two separate, independent hit stats for melee that follow the same binary principles. I can't say it really adds any interesting depth to the game. It's just a gear-juggling exercise when you're standing around in a capital city outside of raids.
It may shock and appall you to learn that some people actually find that gear-juggling exercise to add "interesting depth."
Some people think farming consumables is interesting depth too. Not quite sure what your point is.
That your idea of fun and other peoples' (or hey, Blizzard's) might not be the same thing.
What I'm not OK with are there being known caps to this kinda stuff and Blizzard (until this patch) going out of there way to not tell you what those caps where, or even the rating-% conversions.
Hated havin to scour the net to a) remind myself what the caps where and b) what is the %drop that piece that has -10 Hit Rating is to my overal stats.
Reigner on
Exodus Server: Venstra Rei
FFBE: 838,975,107
Dokkan: 1668363315
All stats have improve an area(s) by a set amount. Hit in the expansion will be the method to lower the inflation on gear stats. Its simple enough to see. Tell me forty, and I am not being snide because I never have played melee in raids, what are the two independed hit stats for melee? White dmg and special attacks? Because I always thought that special attacks hit cap was extremely low. For hybrids you get hit with the spell cap but for pure melee I thought it was always just hit cap for white dmg that was capped.
Expertise is the other independent hit stat for melee. It has the exact same role as hit, and you want to cap it just the same, so it's really just a second hit stat.
Uh the way I see it is hit cap means you will hit 100%. Expertise cap means mob will no longer evade/mitigate your attacks. Hardly doing the same thing.
It's an arbitrary cockblock that doesn't do anything. What is the point of it, exactly? There isn't exactly a hugely complicated difference between "stack the shit out of this until ####" then "stack the shit out of this forever." Sort of similar to defense, sure you could stack past the crit reduction but it was pretty pointless all around. You were better off not doing it. The only difference with hit is there was no bonus to going past it, but the DR on defense kind of made it as pointless as bringing a rogue who can't interrupt into vezax.
It's not anymore arbitrary then anything else in the game.
It's a pair of stats that work differently in order to make gearing choices more interesting. That's it.
I find it shocking that someone would be playing a Diablo-esque blizzard game and not enjoy gear juggling.
The foundations of WoW (and pretty much all blizzard games along these lines) are acquiring gear, and determining the best set to equip to meet pre-set caps or breakpoints for your character's particular function. It is largely the point. Hence why we have new content, with new gear. The new gear is there because that's what drives the gameplay, the acquiring and juggling of it. It's not the content. If it was just the content, blizzard would release only 1 tier of gear and just design all content around that.
The big difference here is that you don't need to be hit capped to do your job. DPS can still DPS under hit cap. They just do less DPS. +Hit is just like +Crit or +Haste in that it simply increases your DPS. It just does so along a slightly different curve then some of the other stats.
I don't see how a curve that drops to 0 effectiveness past a certain point is anything at all like curves with slight diminishing factors.
All stats have improve an area(s) by a set amount. Hit in the expansion will be the method to lower the inflation on gear stats. Its simple enough to see. Tell me forty, and I am not being snide because I never have played melee in raids, what are the two independed hit stats for melee? White dmg and special attacks? Because I always thought that special attacks hit cap was extremely low. For hybrids you get hit with the spell cap but for pure melee I thought it was always just hit cap for white dmg that was capped.
Expertise is the other independent hit stat for melee. It has the exact same role as hit, and you want to cap it just the same, so it's really just a second hit stat.
Uh the way I see it is hit cap means you will hit 100%. Expertise cap means mob will no longer evade/mitigate your attacks. Hardly doing the same thing.
Er...what? How is a dodged attack any different than a missed attack? They're both stats that you have to stack in order for attacks to land.
All stats have improve an area(s) by a set amount. Hit in the expansion will be the method to lower the inflation on gear stats. Its simple enough to see. Tell me forty, and I am not being snide because I never have played melee in raids, what are the two independed hit stats for melee? White dmg and special attacks? Because I always thought that special attacks hit cap was extremely low. For hybrids you get hit with the spell cap but for pure melee I thought it was always just hit cap for white dmg that was capped.
Expertise is the other independent hit stat for melee. It has the exact same role as hit, and you want to cap it just the same, so it's really just a second hit stat.
Uh the way I see it is hit cap means you will hit 100%. Expertise cap means mob will no longer evade/mitigate your attacks. Hardly doing the same thing.
Er...what? How is a dodged attack any different than a missed attack? They're both stats that you have to stack in order for attacks to land.
When they got rid of glancing blows it made this mechanic make less sense but it goes along with that. The attack technically still hit but there is the mechinic of mitigation/evasion that still takes effect. It is an old mechanic. It would make more sense if they brought back glancing glows and got rid of parries and dodges from behind. It would essentially be the same mechanic but would make more sense.
Uh the way I see it is hit cap means you will hit 100%. Expertise cap means mob will no longer evade/mitigate your attacks. Hardly doing the same thing.
Er...what? How is a dodged attack any different than a missed attack? They're both stats that you have to stack in order for attacks to land.
When they got rid of glancing blows it made this mechanic make less sense but it goes along with that. The attack technically still hit but there is the mechinic of mitigation/evasion that still takes effect. It is an old mechanic. It would make more sense if they brought back glancing glows and got rid of parries and dodges from behind. It would essentially be the same mechanic but would make more sense.
I'm not even sure if we're arguing the same thing or not. A miss and a dodge are functionally identical. Hit and Expertise (being the means to eliminate miss and dodge) are also thus functionally identical, from a melee dps perspective. This has nothing to do with glancing blows.
All stats have improve an area(s) by a set amount. Hit in the expansion will be the method to lower the inflation on gear stats. Its simple enough to see. Tell me forty, and I am not being snide because I never have played melee in raids, what are the two independed hit stats for melee? White dmg and special attacks? Because I always thought that special attacks hit cap was extremely low. For hybrids you get hit with the spell cap but for pure melee I thought it was always just hit cap for white dmg that was capped.
Expertise is the other independent hit stat for melee. It has the exact same role as hit, and you want to cap it just the same, so it's really just a second hit stat.
Uh the way I see it is hit cap means you will hit 100%. Expertise cap means mob will no longer evade/mitigate your attacks. Hardly doing the same thing.
If your argument is only based on pointless hair-splitting (or a couple pages ago, reductio ad absurdum), then there's really nothing to discuss.
Uh the way I see it is hit cap means you will hit 100%. Expertise cap means mob will no longer evade/mitigate your attacks. Hardly doing the same thing.
Er...what? How is a dodged attack any different than a missed attack? They're both stats that you have to stack in order for attacks to land.
When they got rid of glancing blows it made this mechanic make less sense but it goes along with that. The attack technically still hit but there is the mechinic of mitigation/evasion that still takes effect. It is an old mechanic. It would make more sense if they brought back glancing glows and got rid of parries and dodges from behind. It would essentially be the same mechanic but would make more sense.[/QUOTE]
I'm not even sure if we're arguing the same thing or not. A miss and a dodge are functionally identical. Hit and Expertise (being the means to eliminate miss and dodge) are also thus functionally identical, from a melee dps perspective. This has nothing to do with glancing blows.[/QUOTE]
If i remember correctly expertise when it was introduced reduced the glancing blows/dodge/parry chance of mobs. They removed glancing blows but kept expertise. I would say that it doesnt make sense for a mob to dodge or parry when they are not facing you but it is still in there because of tanks having to face mobs. BTW I wouldnt care if expertise dissapeared because it needs to be reworked because of the fact that it is a stat that takes effect on top of hit.
Uh the way I see it is hit cap means you will hit 100%. Expertise cap means mob will no longer evade/mitigate your attacks. Hardly doing the same thing.
Er...what? How is a dodged attack any different than a missed attack? They're both stats that you have to stack in order for attacks to land.
When they got rid of glancing blows it made this mechanic make less sense but it goes along with that. The attack technically still hit but there is the mechinic of mitigation/evasion that still takes effect. It is an old mechanic. It would make more sense if they brought back glancing glows and got rid of parries and dodges from behind. It would essentially be the same mechanic but would make more sense.
I'm not even sure if we're arguing the same thing or not. A miss and a dodge are functionally identical. Hit and Expertise (being the means to eliminate miss and dodge) are also thus functionally identical, from a melee dps perspective. This has nothing to do with glancing blows.
That and they never got rid of glancing blows. I have no idea what he's talking about anymore.
All stats have improve an area(s) by a set amount. Hit in the expansion will be the method to lower the inflation on gear stats. Its simple enough to see. Tell me forty, and I am not being snide because I never have played melee in raids, what are the two independed hit stats for melee? White dmg and special attacks? Because I always thought that special attacks hit cap was extremely low. For hybrids you get hit with the spell cap but for pure melee I thought it was always just hit cap for white dmg that was capped.
Expertise is the other independent hit stat for melee. It has the exact same role as hit, and you want to cap it just the same, so it's really just a second hit stat.
Uh the way I see it is hit cap means you will hit 100%. Expertise cap means mob will no longer evade/mitigate your attacks. Hardly doing the same thing.
If your argument is only based on pointless hair-splitting (or a couple pages ago, reductio ad absurdum), then there's really nothing to discuss.
If I miss something, I didn't do damage. If something dodges my attack, I didn't do any damage.
0 damage = 0 damage.
Just because the evasion table registers it as a "hit" doesn't change the ultimate goal of doing damage. So, functionally, hit and expertise go towards eliminating the possibility of doing no damage.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Uh the way I see it is hit cap means you will hit 100%. Expertise cap means mob will no longer evade/mitigate your attacks. Hardly doing the same thing.
Er...what? How is a dodged attack any different than a missed attack? They're both stats that you have to stack in order for attacks to land.
When they got rid of glancing blows it made this mechanic make less sense but it goes along with that. The attack technically still hit but there is the mechinic of mitigation/evasion that still takes effect. It is an old mechanic. It would make more sense if they brought back glancing glows and got rid of parries and dodges from behind. It would essentially be the same mechanic but would make more sense.
I'm not even sure if we're arguing the same thing or not. A miss and a dodge are functionally identical. Hit and Expertise (being the means to eliminate miss and dodge) are also thus functionally identical, from a melee dps perspective. This has nothing to do with glancing blows.
That and they never got rid of glancing blows. I have no idea what he's talking about anymore.
I thought they removed it... ahhh reading about it they changed it to be a shadow of what it once was.
After reading through that, and realizing that absolutely none of this information has come from blizzard really, I've come to the conclusion that there are far too many math teachers playing wow and that doesn't sit well with me. Unless they played Winnie on Wonder Years, then it's okay and I retract my statement.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Well technically, you have a 95% base hit chance, so 5% hit to overcome that, and then 1% more per level over yours. Hence, 8% for level 83 bosses.
Emporium on
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited November 2010
My problem with having bosses scale to hit is that getting more hit does not benefit you when fighting the bosses that haven't scaled.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
My problem with having bosses scale to hit is that getting more hit does not benefit you when fighting the bosses that haven't scaled.
If they are in the same instance that would indeed suck but I doubt they will be in the same tier. A quick visit to reforge your gear prior to doing last tier content would mean extra boom for it
Jubal77 on
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited November 2010
Hit is a bad stat because it is binary, as forty has said. You do not get a benefit for going a half point over the maximum. You want to hit exactly the maximum and no more. Given the way gear works, even with reforging, this is almost impossible to do. I've had gear sit in my bank for months because, while a huge upgrade otherwise, it would make me lose out on the massive amount of hit that another item gave. So I'd have to get another item in order to use the item that was an upgrade. And since values for weapons vary so widely, getting a weapon that has a lot of hit on it makes you gear in a completely different manner from a weapon that does not.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
My problem with having bosses scale to hit is that getting more hit does not benefit you when fighting the bosses that haven't scaled.
If they are in the same instance that would indeed suck but I doubt they will be in the same tier. A quick visit to reforge your gear prior to doing last tier content would mean extra boom for it
Oh joy, I get to go play stat calculus and lose money when doing different tiers of content.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
My problem with having bosses scale to hit is that getting more hit does not benefit you when fighting the bosses that haven't scaled.
If they are in the same instance that would indeed suck but I doubt they will be in the same tier. A quick visit to reforge your gear prior to doing last tier content would mean extra boom for it
Oh joy, I get to go play stat calculus and lose money when doing different tiers of content.
I find it easy to do with not only the % shown in game but also the value needed by mob level shown in game so the number crunching isnt as bad as it used to be.
Edit: And honestly if your doing prior tier does moving an extra 40 hit you have into haste or crit really matter?
Posts
SKULL + 1.
Awesome. Boss+1.
Hunters don't! :rotate:
Just an educated guess, but i think there's going to be some turmoil in WoW with Cata's launch. It'll be fine at the beginning, but come January/February there's going to be drama.
The above will certainly be one of those sources, because everything I've read in Cata points to "bad players will hold back their teams and guild, and a lot of people aren't going to be fine with that."
The other two?
- You have 25 men raiding in guilds now. Many guilds are going to move to 10 man teams. Who goes? And how do you divide it up? Do you have an A Team and a B Team? Or try to have to A.5 teams? Either way, people will get butthurt.
- People who are used to not needing a guild and doing their own thing either a) having to adapt to being in a guild again (and it possibly not going well) b) staying solo and QQing up the Blizzard forums about then not being able to raid any more (because i think PUGs won't be plentiful - both because guilds want the XP for their perks, and if the raids are harder they'll be less puggable).
Empire - Veela Server
But its a completely logical way to defend it.
Uh, no, it's not. You just proved my point because when you restated the gearing choice with hit, you had to make it more complicated.
This is the point.
The difficult part about starting a raiding guild from scratch is in order to attract players that have any sort of skill and intelligence, you need to have some credibility first. So its kind of a catch 22 situation.
I think the best thing to do therefore, from a recruitment standpoint, is to lead raid pugs. You and your friend gather a group of people and lead a pug, showing everyone that you know how to organize, lead, explain fights, not be stupid...etc. After a (hopefully) successful pug, just drop a line that you are currently recruiting for x, y, and z and to send you a tell or go to the website if you're interested. Then when/if people bite, pick and choose what you want based on their performance in your raids.
My current guild started from a weekly ToC 25 about a year and a half ago organized by the current GM, her boyfriend, and a couple of their friends. They organized the first one as just a random collection of people and after our initial clear invited the good people back the next week. Eventually we had a solid group of 25 people and the decision was made to start a guild. I as well as many others was impressed with their organization and leadership skills, so we went along.
Once you've got your people, the problem then becomes managing them. A guild is very much like a business organization. You're going to have a wide variety of people that, per their resume, are all qualified to belong in your organization, but have different ways of going about their job, communicating, and interacting.
Don't be afraid to lay down the law when necessary, but remember that just because you're the boss doesn't mean that others' input isn't valuable. Decisions like raid times, when to call it a night, when to move on to a different boss after wiping 500 times, etc...should ultimately be made by you as the raid/guild leader, but input should be taken from everyone involved. People like to feel involved and that there input is valued by the organization (guild).
Constant communication is also important. I recommend encouraging people to regularly use your web site message boards etc. I also recommend that during progression raiding you as the leadership take a regular "pulse" of the group. "Are you satisfied with how we're handling loot?", "If you could change something that we're doing, what would it be?". These questions help you not only better understand how your guild is feeling, but also, again, make people feel more involved in decision making.
Its honestly scary how similar managing a guild is to managing employees at a company. There's a lot more work behind the scenes that regular members of the guild never see, so just be prepared and willing to do all that work.
That was long...I am sorry
Expertise is the other independent hit stat for melee. It has the exact same role as hit, and you want to cap it just the same, so it's really just a second hit stat.
That your idea of fun and other peoples' (or hey, Blizzard's) might not be the same thing.
I actually enjoyed farming consumables, fwiw.
What I'm not OK with are there being known caps to this kinda stuff and Blizzard (until this patch) going out of there way to not tell you what those caps where, or even the rating-% conversions.
Hated havin to scour the net to a) remind myself what the caps where and b) what is the %drop that piece that has -10 Hit Rating is to my overal stats.
FFBE: 838,975,107
Dokkan: 1668363315
Uh the way I see it is hit cap means you will hit 100%. Expertise cap means mob will no longer evade/mitigate your attacks. Hardly doing the same thing.
It's not anymore arbitrary then anything else in the game.
It's a pair of stats that work differently in order to make gearing choices more interesting. That's it.
The foundations of WoW (and pretty much all blizzard games along these lines) are acquiring gear, and determining the best set to equip to meet pre-set caps or breakpoints for your character's particular function. It is largely the point. Hence why we have new content, with new gear. The new gear is there because that's what drives the gameplay, the acquiring and juggling of it. It's not the content. If it was just the content, blizzard would release only 1 tier of gear and just design all content around that.
the game is the gear
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
Er...what? How is a dodged attack any different than a missed attack? They're both stats that you have to stack in order for attacks to land.
When they got rid of glancing blows it made this mechanic make less sense but it goes along with that. The attack technically still hit but there is the mechinic of mitigation/evasion that still takes effect. It is an old mechanic. It would make more sense if they brought back glancing glows and got rid of parries and dodges from behind. It would essentially be the same mechanic but would make more sense.
I'm not even sure if we're arguing the same thing or not. A miss and a dodge are functionally identical. Hit and Expertise (being the means to eliminate miss and dodge) are also thus functionally identical, from a melee dps perspective. This has nothing to do with glancing blows.
When they got rid of glancing blows it made this mechanic make less sense but it goes along with that. The attack technically still hit but there is the mechinic of mitigation/evasion that still takes effect. It is an old mechanic. It would make more sense if they brought back glancing glows and got rid of parries and dodges from behind. It would essentially be the same mechanic but would make more sense.[/QUOTE]
I'm not even sure if we're arguing the same thing or not. A miss and a dodge are functionally identical. Hit and Expertise (being the means to eliminate miss and dodge) are also thus functionally identical, from a melee dps perspective. This has nothing to do with glancing blows.[/QUOTE]
If i remember correctly expertise when it was introduced reduced the glancing blows/dodge/parry chance of mobs. They removed glancing blows but kept expertise. I would say that it doesnt make sense for a mob to dodge or parry when they are not facing you but it is still in there because of tanks having to face mobs. BTW I wouldnt care if expertise dissapeared because it needs to be reworked because of the fact that it is a stat that takes effect on top of hit.
Eh? provide me the mathetical proof.
0 damage = 0 damage.
Just because the evasion table registers it as a "hit" doesn't change the ultimate goal of doing damage. So, functionally, hit and expertise go towards eliminating the possibility of doing no damage.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Expertise
Also, mobs can't parry attacks from behind.
We are now prepared to continue this conversation, if it's actually relevant to anything.
I thought they removed it... ahhh reading about it they changed it to be a shadow of what it once was.
Not really. Thanks for the education. As I said prior in the thread I never really played melee in raids so thanks for the clarification.
My Melee Hit% is 8%...and that means my attacks will always land? o_O Even though I apparently have a 92% chance to "not hit." :rotate:
If they are in the same instance that would indeed suck but I doubt they will be in the same tier. A quick visit to reforge your gear prior to doing last tier content would mean extra boom for it
Oh joy, I get to go play stat calculus and lose money when doing different tiers of content.
I find it easy to do with not only the % shown in game but also the value needed by mob level shown in game so the number crunching isnt as bad as it used to be.
Edit: And honestly if your doing prior tier does moving an extra 40 hit you have into haste or crit really matter?