I had a pug DK use Army of the Dead on Ghaz. He spun like a top and spewed ice everywhere. Unsurprisingly, I was unable to get back into melee range and interupt his glacier in time (and of course nobody else in the pug knew to interupt it), so he healed back up to near full.
The healer rocked though, so we still killed him without any deaths. Unfortunately that means the DK didn't learn anything. Though I somehow doubt he would have learned anything even if we had all died.
I suppose I can cut him a tiny bit of slack and assume that the only boss the DK had fought before Ghaz was Prince Sarasun (who is considered a raid boss, and thus AoD shouldn't taunt him) and so he assumed that all four of them were considered raid bosses. That's pretty unlikely though.
Edit: From what I can tell, the city invasion starts two hours after the boss portals in that city closes. The portals last 30 minutes after the invasion is stopped. So the bosses should be available roughly every 2.5 hours or so. One city may be saved sooner than the other, though, so it's portals will go down first (and thus it will get invaded again sooner, thus eventually widening the gap between when each city is invaded).
I'm so used to Boss abilities not being interruptable that the first couple of times against Ghazranka I didn't even try to interrupt his Glacier thingy. No big deal, we were doing enough DPS that we dropped him soon enough anyway.
Nowhere on that page do they say that. They just list the loot and don't specify who drops what. There may be one or two shared items, I don't know, but I really doubt "Barrier of the Earth Princess" is dropping off someone other than Therazane... All of the drops I saw last night were specifically related (by name anyways) to the element of the boss that dropped them.
And yet, if you sort the pieces by element type, you can get 4-5 per boss, and IIRC, the drops I've seen have followed this pattern...ie, only seeing the Shield or Tectonic Plate from the earth boss, Flamewalker's Treads and Sulfuron's Favor from the fire boss, etc.
EDIT: Beaten.
Also, some are kind of generic and don't specify an element, but I think they get split between the wind and water bosses.
Wait. Who the fuck doesn't turn bosses away from the group?
About 95% of all Death Knights, apparently.
Turning a boss or any pack of mobs really is just Tanking 101. Cataclysm might be brutal for people who have grown used to the Wrath boss era.
We already know it is.
But to be honest, they should have learned this in Wrath too. There has been at least one "dragon" style boss in each tier where if you left it turned towards the raid, bad things happened. Except for some goofy mechanic bosses (Auriaya in Ulduar comes to mind, Thaddius in Naxx too), you always turn the boss away from the raid.
Nobody on
0
FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
edited November 2010
Y'all could be right. As caster DPS, the bosses do quickly fuse together into one amorphous giant lump of Evil to be burned/frozen/cursed to death.
But to be honest, they should have learned this in Wrath too. There has been at least one "dragon" style boss in each tier where if you left it turned towards the raid, bad things happened. Except for some goofy mechanic bosses (Auriaya in Ulduar comes to mind, Thaddius in Naxx too), you always turn the boss away from the raid.
In the pre-patch days of TBC, Boss facing didn't matter, since they all had that ridiculous all-around cleave. Say goodnight, Rogue.
I tend to run behind a boss if it doesn't get turned by habit.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited November 2010
The best cleave was chain cleave.
One rogue out of position? Goodbye raid.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Yeah, even having played a caster for most of wrath, when I do pull out my paladin I'm still making sure to drag a pack a little so they are all facing me and away from the group if I'm tanking. And always stay behind mobs if I'm dps.
But to be honest, they should have learned this in Wrath too. There has been at least one "dragon" style boss in each tier where if you left it turned towards the raid, bad things happened. Except for some goofy mechanic bosses (Auriaya in Ulduar comes to mind, Thaddius in Naxx too), you always turn the boss away from the raid.
In the pre-patch days of TBC, Boss facing didn't matter, since they all had that ridiculous all-around cleave. Say goodnight, Rogue.
Yep, I should clarify I was talking about Wrath only, though boss facing did matter sometimes in early TBC/Classic, again usually with dragons.
So, I attempted to do the bosses last night. I could only queue for one - Ghaz - and when we finally beat him (took three wipes because our "healer" had no fucking clue what he was doing and Ret Pallies are not fantastic back-up healers), I couldn't queue for any of the others.
Is that ... normal?
It means that the portals closed. They're only open for a limited time. Odd that the only one you could see is Ghaz though. Are you sure Sarsarun wasn't there too?
Well, there were two options to queue for, I picked Ghaz. Rereading my earlier post, I mistyped. I meant, "I queued for the first one, and when we finished, I couldn't queue for any others. So, I could only queue for one last night." There was another one - probably Sars.
So, I attempted to do the bosses last night. I could only queue for one - Ghaz - and when we finally beat him (took three wipes because our "healer" had no fucking clue what he was doing and Ret Pallies are not fantastic back-up healers), I couldn't queue for any of the others.
Is that ... normal?
Ret pallies are excellent back-up healers!
I ret-healed One Light in the Darkness. I think I did okay.
Okay, I guess *I'm* just a bad Ret-Healer, then. I mean, I've done one or two bosses after our healer bit it / DCed or whatever, but I couldn't do Ghaz last night.
Also, Kaiju Ghaz-rilla is a funny name. I chuckled.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited November 2010
Granted, they made it a little harder with the changes to instant flashes.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I had an experience last night with exactly the type of player I'm going to enjoy listening to cry when Cata comes out. Perfect example of just a retarded player in incredible gear either because a guild carried him, or because the content isn't that difficult in WotLK.
Now one of the first things you learned as a DPS or healer in vanilla and TBC was to watch your threat and never, ever ever pull aggro from a tank. Usually if you paced yourself at the start of the fight you'd be fine - just giving the tank enough time to build unsurmountable threat before going nuketastic on the boss/mob.
So last night i'm doing the elemental bosses. Now I know I don't have the greatest gear as a new lvl 80. But last night I tanked all of those bosses pretty easily and can do most, if not all of the heroics. And this was toward the end of the night, so I had tanked at least 15 of these boss fights without any serious issues/wipes/deaths (aside from a retarded hunter who didn't think he should move out a spot of fire on the ground).
So we're doing the water boss and there's a seriously geared shadow priest in the group as DPS. With buffs and everything I'm at 35,000 health and this guy had 34,000.
Good, intelligent players would realize this and not go full out DPS from the start of the fight. This guy was neither. I pull the boss and I've only got one hit and my DnD on it when this guy goes full bore DPS. It didn't take long before he pulled aggro off me. I used my Dark Command skill to get aggro back, threw a rune strike and some other threat building moves on him.
But the shadow guy never stops his full out assault, and pulls aggro again after about 10 seconds and gets wtfstomped by the boss. The healer after explained he saw this, could have healed him but realized he was just being an ass.
I regrab aggro and we four man the boss down without incident.
Let the QQ begin. "Look at you ... i almost have more health than you ... you suck ... you're a scrub ... blah blah blah."
At this point the healer chimes in that we seemed to have done the fight pretty well without his leet skills. I pointed out if he was truly the All-Star he thought he was, he would have known how to manage his threat and realized he couldn't go full nuke without letting the tank get some treat first.
perhaps the final icing on the cake ... the priest need rolled for the boots that dropped and lost to the other healer.
Tanks should know to face bosses away from the group by default, but what dps just stands in front of a boss too? Seriously, even in normal mode wrath thats just asking for a hurting.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited November 2010
Look, there are a lot of things people should know. You don't stand in glowy shit. You turn the boss away from the raid. If you can interrupt it, you interrupt it.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Tanks should know to face bosses away from the group by default, but what dps just stands in front of a boss too? Seriously, even in normal mode wrath thats just asking for a hurting.
at this point i think probably a majority of WoW players are just awful by old standards.
I think a big part of it is the heroics and raids are just so easy folks have gotten into all sorts of bad habits.
I mean think about it ... you've got an entire generation of characters out there who have never needed to worry about CC, controlling threat, properly tanking bosses, setting up trash pulls, waiting to make sure their healers are at full mana, needing to use their long cooldowns at the right time, etc.
From everything i've seen and heard this crowd is in for a rude awakening come Cataclysm.
Look, there are a lot of things people should know. You don't stand in glowy shit. You turn the boss away from the raid. If you can interrupt it, you interrupt it.
Except, doesn't one of the Utgarde bosses have smokey shit you are supposed to stand in?
That confused me for that fight. I guess smokey =/= glowing?
FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
edited November 2010
Can't argue with that, DPS has to be on the ball as much as anyone else to insure that they haven't wandered into the Boss' front arc or are standing in a puddle of Death Slime. But if I'm running around like a water bug trying to stay behind the Boss, that means
a) I'm not casting because I'm too busy moving and
b) The Tank is not managing the Boss' facing
and while a Tank can probably get away with this against the Elemental bosses, he's in for some serious pain once CATACLYSM starts.
JakarrdIn the belly ofOklahomaRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
I got to run thru the portal instances last night. First group I had was bloody aweseome, we managed 15+ fights before time ran out. For my mage I got a ring of Ghaz (three headed beast), boots off the air elemetal dude (sandfury sandals), and a neck piece off of Ghaz (I think, amulet of evil wind). I never saw the tank shield drop. Flame dude had like the silly agility necklace drop almost every time. I think the spirit caster necklace dropped once from him.
Ghaz was by far the most fun of the four I had going against. It was fun to see Zul farak with lev 79+ mobs in it.
All in all it was a good time.
Jakarrd on
Greetings Starfighter! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan Armada.
Tanks should know to face bosses away from the group by default, but what dps just stands in front of a boss too? Seriously, even in normal mode wrath thats just asking for a hurting.
Our rogues used to stand in front of the bosses and thought evasion would save them. It was not uncommon to hear the rogues bitch about a 120g repair bill at the end of the night when the rest of us spent 0 and made close to 100-120g just from loot.
I remember getting bitched at because when I pull I run through the boss/adds and spin them around. Some DPS thought I was trying to kill him because he always runs behind the boss. So after the third time of me doing it he told me to stop because he wants to be behind the boss. I was at a loss of words.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Tanks should know to face bosses away from the group by default, but what dps just stands in front of a boss too? Seriously, even in normal mode wrath thats just asking for a hurting.
Our rogues used to stand in front of the bosses and thought evasion would save them. It was not uncommon to hear the rogues bitch about a 120g repair bill at the end of the night when the rest of us spent 0 and made close to 100-120g just from loot.
I remember getting bitched at because when I pull I run through the boss/adds and spin them around. Some DPS thought I was trying to kill him because he always runs behind the boss. So after the third time of me doing it he told me to stop because he wants to be behind the boss. I was at a loss of words.
"... I'm making your life easier for you? Why are you complaining?"
Tanks should know to face bosses away from the group by default, but what dps just stands in front of a boss too? Seriously, even in normal mode wrath thats just asking for a hurting.
Our rogues used to stand in front of the bosses and thought evasion would save them. It was not uncommon to hear the rogues bitch about a 120g repair bill at the end of the night when the rest of us spent 0 and made close to 100-120g just from loot.
I remember getting bitched at because when I pull I run through the boss/adds and spin them around. Some DPS thought I was trying to kill him because he always runs behind the boss. So after the third time of me doing it he told me to stop because he wants to be behind the boss. I was at a loss of words.
"... I'm making your life easier for you? Why are you complaining?"
I fear he'd not hear me over the awesome sound of his non-life because he has 9000 achievement points.
Yes, he likes to make this known. Even the military didn't want him.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
0
JakarrdIn the belly ofOklahomaRegistered Userregular
Tanks should know to face bosses away from the group by default, but what dps just stands in front of a boss too? Seriously, even in normal mode wrath thats just asking for a hurting.
Our rogues used to stand in front of the bosses and thought evasion would save them. It was not uncommon to hear the rogues bitch about a 120g repair bill at the end of the night when the rest of us spent 0 and made close to 100-120g just from loot.
I remember getting bitched at because when I pull I run through the boss/adds and spin them around. Some DPS thought I was trying to kill him because he always runs behind the boss. So after the third time of me doing it he told me to stop because he wants to be behind the boss. I was at a loss of words.
"... I'm making your life easier for you? Why are you complaining?"
"Becuase you are doing it wrong and I refuse to adapt!"
Jakarrd on
Greetings Starfighter! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan Armada.
0
JakarrdIn the belly ofOklahomaRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
I'm actually kinda nervous. I've played DPS classes for the longest time and nothing else. So now I have a lev 59 pally I'm pushing up for the sole purpose of tanking and healing. I have no idea on rotations yet nor gear and yet I'm thinking "I've seen what bad tanks do. can I not do that and do what good tanks should do?"
/shiver
Jakarrd on
Greetings Starfighter! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan Armada.
Melee dps always seem to have more tards than range.
Maybe that's because Range generally have less to deal with? I feel like we need a scientific study.
Speaking as someone new to most of this end-game stuff, I know that as melee DPS I spend a lot more time running around trying to do stuff, while all the RDPSers tend to plant themselves in one spot.
The movement, if nothing else, adds another thing to think about.
Melee dps always seem to have more tards than range.
Maybe that's because Range generally have less to deal with? I feel like we need a scientific study.
Naw, they both have their tards, it's just easier to tell with melee DPS since their threat threshold is lower than ranged and they are usually within cleave range.
I'm actually kinda nervous. I've played DPS classes for the longest time and nothing else. So now I have a lev 59 pally I'm pushing up for the sole purpose of tanking and healing. I have no idea on rotations yet nor gear and yet I'm thinking "I've seen what bad tanks do. can I not do that and do what good tanks should do?"
/shiver
Don't be a douche
Learn about your cooldowns
Your taunt only lasts 6 seconds, build some threat if you're losing guys
Explain to people that focusing on the one your attacking helps, you've only got 2 taunts so if 3 people pull off you, someone's going to die
Learn about your rotation (for paladin tanks it's as simple as CS->Judge->CS->Judge->CS->SotR (single target) and Consecrate->HotR->Judge->HotR->Judge->HotR->SotR (aoe 3+))
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I'm actually kinda nervous. I've played DPS classes for the longest time and nothing else. So now I have a lev 59 pally I'm pushing up for the sole purpose of tanking and healing. I have no idea on rotations yet nor gear and yet I'm thinking "I've seen what bad tanks do. can I not do that and do what good tanks should do?"
/shiver
The best advice I can give is read up on it. Elitist Jerks isn't just good for min/maxing. There's a lot of good discussion on rotations, situational abilities, etc. The forums have some good info, as well, in the stickies.
Melee dps always seem to have more tards than range.
Maybe that's because Range generally have less to deal with? I feel like we need a scientific study.
Speaking as someone new to most of this end-game stuff, I know that as melee DPS I spend a lot more time running around trying to do stuff, while all the RDPSers tend to plant themselves in one spot.
The movement, if nothing else, adds another thing to think about.
Yeah, that's what i was referring too in mah poast.
I thought the threat threshold was the same now? If only there was a way to analyze ICC wipes. Compare a fight that requires equal movement by both types of DPS. Then compare them to one that favors range, and one that favours the CC.
There's a whole forum dedicated to pally tanking (google "maintankadin," I can't remember the link off the top of my head) that has a lot of advice and guides for beginning pally tanks.
EDIT: Threat thresholds: My understanding is that it's still 130% for ranged and 110% for melee.
There's a whole forum dedicated to pally tanking (google "maintankadin," I can't remember the link off the top of my head) that has a lot of advice and guides for beginning pally tanks.
This too.
Despite what everyone says, tanking is not as hard as it appears. What's hard is dealing with geese. Also getting frustrated about gear too.
Instant queues are great but when you've been in H-HoR 8 times today (yes I've had that shitty of luck) and you lose the boots yet again to a dps DK, you get frustrated and angry.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Posts
I know the shield only drops off of Princess. Might be some shared, some unique.
Nowhere on that page do they say that. They just list the loot and don't specify who drops what. There may be one or two shared items, I don't know, but I really doubt "Barrier of the Earth Princess" is dropping off someone other than Therazane... All of the drops I saw last night were specifically related (by name anyways) to the element of the boss that dropped them.
Turning a boss or any pack of mobs really is just Tanking 101. Cataclysm might be brutal for people who have grown used to the Wrath boss era.
And yet, if you sort the pieces by element type, you can get 4-5 per boss, and IIRC, the drops I've seen have followed this pattern...ie, only seeing the Shield or Tectonic Plate from the earth boss, Flamewalker's Treads and Sulfuron's Favor from the fire boss, etc.
EDIT: Beaten.
Also, some are kind of generic and don't specify an element, but I think they get split between the wind and water bosses.
We already know it is.
But to be honest, they should have learned this in Wrath too. There has been at least one "dragon" style boss in each tier where if you left it turned towards the raid, bad things happened. Except for some goofy mechanic bosses (Auriaya in Ulduar comes to mind, Thaddius in Naxx too), you always turn the boss away from the raid.
One rogue out of position? Goodbye raid.
Yep, I should clarify I was talking about Wrath only, though boss facing did matter sometimes in early TBC/Classic, again usually with dragons.
Well, there were two options to queue for, I picked Ghaz. Rereading my earlier post, I mistyped. I meant, "I queued for the first one, and when we finished, I couldn't queue for any others. So, I could only queue for one last night." There was another one - probably Sars.
Okay, I guess *I'm* just a bad Ret-Healer, then. I mean, I've done one or two bosses after our healer bit it / DCed or whatever, but I couldn't do Ghaz last night.
Also, Kaiju Ghaz-rilla is a funny name. I chuckled.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Now one of the first things you learned as a DPS or healer in vanilla and TBC was to watch your threat and never, ever ever pull aggro from a tank. Usually if you paced yourself at the start of the fight you'd be fine - just giving the tank enough time to build unsurmountable threat before going nuketastic on the boss/mob.
So last night i'm doing the elemental bosses. Now I know I don't have the greatest gear as a new lvl 80. But last night I tanked all of those bosses pretty easily and can do most, if not all of the heroics. And this was toward the end of the night, so I had tanked at least 15 of these boss fights without any serious issues/wipes/deaths (aside from a retarded hunter who didn't think he should move out a spot of fire on the ground).
So we're doing the water boss and there's a seriously geared shadow priest in the group as DPS. With buffs and everything I'm at 35,000 health and this guy had 34,000.
Good, intelligent players would realize this and not go full out DPS from the start of the fight. This guy was neither. I pull the boss and I've only got one hit and my DnD on it when this guy goes full bore DPS. It didn't take long before he pulled aggro off me. I used my Dark Command skill to get aggro back, threw a rune strike and some other threat building moves on him.
But the shadow guy never stops his full out assault, and pulls aggro again after about 10 seconds and gets wtfstomped by the boss. The healer after explained he saw this, could have healed him but realized he was just being an ass.
I regrab aggro and we four man the boss down without incident.
Let the QQ begin. "Look at you ... i almost have more health than you ... you suck ... you're a scrub ... blah blah blah."
At this point the healer chimes in that we seemed to have done the fight pretty well without his leet skills. I pointed out if he was truly the All-Star he thought he was, he would have known how to manage his threat and realized he couldn't go full nuke without letting the tank get some treat first.
perhaps the final icing on the cake ... the priest need rolled for the boots that dropped and lost to the other healer.
karma ... it's a bitch.
Empire - Veela Server
I am a freaking nerd.
at this point i think probably a majority of WoW players are just awful by old standards.
I think a big part of it is the heroics and raids are just so easy folks have gotten into all sorts of bad habits.
I mean think about it ... you've got an entire generation of characters out there who have never needed to worry about CC, controlling threat, properly tanking bosses, setting up trash pulls, waiting to make sure their healers are at full mana, needing to use their long cooldowns at the right time, etc.
From everything i've seen and heard this crowd is in for a rude awakening come Cataclysm.
Empire - Veela Server
Pay attention.
Except, doesn't one of the Utgarde bosses have smokey shit you are supposed to stand in?
That confused me for that fight. I guess smokey =/= glowing?
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
a) I'm not casting because I'm too busy moving and
b) The Tank is not managing the Boss' facing
and while a Tank can probably get away with this against the Elemental bosses, he's in for some serious pain once CATACLYSM starts.
Ghaz was by far the most fun of the four I had going against. It was fun to see Zul farak with lev 79+ mobs in it.
All in all it was a good time.
Our rogues used to stand in front of the bosses and thought evasion would save them. It was not uncommon to hear the rogues bitch about a 120g repair bill at the end of the night when the rest of us spent 0 and made close to 100-120g just from loot.
I remember getting bitched at because when I pull I run through the boss/adds and spin them around. Some DPS thought I was trying to kill him because he always runs behind the boss. So after the third time of me doing it he told me to stop because he wants to be behind the boss. I was at a loss of words.
"... I'm making your life easier for you? Why are you complaining?"
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
I fear he'd not hear me over the awesome sound of his non-life because he has 9000 achievement points.
Yes, he likes to make this known. Even the military didn't want him.
"Becuase you are doing it wrong and I refuse to adapt!"
/shiver
Maybe that's because Range generally have less to deal with? I feel like we need a scientific study.
Speaking as someone new to most of this end-game stuff, I know that as melee DPS I spend a lot more time running around trying to do stuff, while all the RDPSers tend to plant themselves in one spot.
The movement, if nothing else, adds another thing to think about.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Naw, they both have their tards, it's just easier to tell with melee DPS since their threat threshold is lower than ranged and they are usually within cleave range.
The best advice I can give is read up on it. Elitist Jerks isn't just good for min/maxing. There's a lot of good discussion on rotations, situational abilities, etc. The forums have some good info, as well, in the stickies.
Yeah, that's what i was referring too in mah poast.
I thought the threat threshold was the same now? If only there was a way to analyze ICC wipes. Compare a fight that requires equal movement by both types of DPS. Then compare them to one that favors range, and one that favours the CC.
EDIT: Threat thresholds: My understanding is that it's still 130% for ranged and 110% for melee.
This too.
Despite what everyone says, tanking is not as hard as it appears. What's hard is dealing with geese. Also getting frustrated about gear too.
Instant queues are great but when you've been in H-HoR 8 times today (yes I've had that shitty of luck) and you lose the boots yet again to a dps DK, you get frustrated and angry.