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Pagan rituals BE GONE
bowen
Sup?Registered User regular
Sup?Registered User regular
Has anyone else been noticing a lot of schools and places are changing their Halloween festivities to "Harvest Festival" festivities?
This was on the radio today and irked me a bit. It was kind of unsettling how widespread it is this year. It seems a lot of local schools in my area aren't letting kids dress up in "offensive" outfits. Those being things that would celebrate paganism because of fear it might offend someone. Witches, devil outfights, ghosts. Ninja turtles and the cast of Jersey Shore is okay.
Though some are even getting rid of costume altogether. Nothing. What's the point? Is anyone really honestly offended? Kids are going to be kids I very much doubt some kid is going to be upset because Elly-may dressed up like the wicked witch of the west this year. Their parents might be. Why? Christian maybe? Well, Christianity has a long history of pagan rituals in it's background. Christmas, for instance, a conglomeration of Yule, the birth of Jesus, and a few other regions. If anything Christians should be taking a page from their ancestors and celebrate holidays together.
What are your thoughts on this D&D? Have you all been noticing the same thing? Is this political correctness gone too far?
This was on the radio today and irked me a bit. It was kind of unsettling how widespread it is this year. It seems a lot of local schools in my area aren't letting kids dress up in "offensive" outfits. Those being things that would celebrate paganism because of fear it might offend someone. Witches, devil outfights, ghosts. Ninja turtles and the cast of Jersey Shore is okay.
Though some are even getting rid of costume altogether. Nothing. What's the point? Is anyone really honestly offended? Kids are going to be kids I very much doubt some kid is going to be upset because Elly-may dressed up like the wicked witch of the west this year. Their parents might be. Why? Christian maybe? Well, Christianity has a long history of pagan rituals in it's background. Christmas, for instance, a conglomeration of Yule, the birth of Jesus, and a few other regions. If anything Christians should be taking a page from their ancestors and celebrate holidays together.
What are your thoughts on this D&D? Have you all been noticing the same thing? Is this political correctness gone too far?
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
bowen on
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School celebrations should err on the side of secular.
... yeah, it's pretty stupid. Holidays like Christmas, Halloween, and Easter have symbolism that while mythological in nature aren't meaningfully tied in any way to any modern religion, so to argue that celebrating them represents establishment of a religion (either in the First Amendment sense, or in the evangelical sense that they teach kids paganism) is to paint a very tenuous link.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
She thought that kids dressing up in "evil" outfits was a terrible, sinful thing. To which I replied, "How are the kids being evil, exactly? It's a holiday where kids dress up and get candy, not a cat-sacrificing ritual."
I have yet to receive a reply on this particular point, but I'll remember to bring her response back to the thread if she gives one. Might be good to get an uber-Christian point of view straight from the source.
Kids in America dress up to go to school on Halloween?
Fuck no. In fact, even if it interferes with class, it's HALLOWEEN. The most kickass time of the year! Remove New Years and make Halloween a day off from school for the little ones.
Yeah, it's pretty common for kids to go to class in costume on Halloween day (or on the Friday immediately preceding it, if it falls on a weekend.)
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
When my child dresses up on a day that basically means "free candy" and "be whatever the fuck you please for fun" once a year, I dont think we should have to worry about whether or not that little billies ghost costume is going to offend some nutjob who doesn't want their child exposed to THAT PAGANTRY WITCHCRAFTINGS at school.
Now if the children all wanted to dress as giant dicks or vaginal flying squirrels with swastikas, we might need to ask questions.
edit:...I was last on the train..
Who is seriously offended by a ghost costume?
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Yeah, I can see this.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
That's what utterly confused the shit out of me. Most American Wicca consider halloween the harvest festival.
It's kind of weird. Would Christians be okay if their kids didn't get to celebrates Christmas, or is this a one-sided thing, only if it offends the Christians?
There is always, and will always be things that one person does and another doesn't. I feel like if you put the kids all in one place and say "Hey check it out you all celebrate the same things the same way" you're empowering the fact that the kids do have differences by trying to mask it, and you're standing up for what is possibly someones elses ignorance or lack of tolerance towards those differences under the idea that you want to be sure they dont "feel" "otherness".
I think if I've learned anything in life, or feel that anything in life should of been taught in school it's that differences exist, sometimes you're the odd one out, sometimes you're not, you dont need to change the people that arent like you or put a different cloth over them when you're in the same building so that it doesnt hurt your delicate sensibilities.
On the radio today it was specifically Witches. This little girl saw a play and was really excited to dress up as a witch for Halloween. The school put in the policy that they'll let people dress up, but not as an offensive thing like a witch, or ghost, or any other pagan image (I think they used pagan in the letter).
If anything that sends the wrong message to kids. All she wants to do is have fun and dress up, this has less to do with "I'm going to haunt you and curse you" and more to do with "let's have fun and be kids."
Seriously if anyone links dressing up as a witch as a precursor to Wicca, they're pretty dumb. I don't even care if a kid dresses up like Jesus for Halloween, that won't offend me.
I agree with the secular bit, but should Halloween even considered to be 'religious' at this point?
From what I've observed for most people is that it's just an excuse to dress up in a costume, decorate their house, carve pumpkins, and stuff pillow sheets full of candy or get really drunk (depending on the age).
If there's a deeper meaning behind it than the above, let me know.
I think that if you watch the news, you will find that each group has something they dont want another group to do in public on a specific day.
And its ruining the country.
The joy most kids get from Halloween is well worth some discomfort from people who for whatever reason don't choose to celebrate. I'd rather have a place where joy and diversity is allowed rather than some sterile place where conformity is enforced in an attempt to mitigate bullying that will occur through other venues in the abscence of halloween. The focus should be on reducing bullying itself, not on trying to tamp down on any possible avenue through which the bullies may choose to pick on children. Those avenues are endless.
This applies only to elementary school kids, just so you non americans know.
I agree that people sometimes take it way too far, and since people *do* have differences, we should teach kids they exist, but, if everyone is dressed up and celebrating and you're NOT dressed up and celebrating, I mean, I guarantee you that that day is going to be rough for that kid. And to what end?
Edit: I'd also like to say that I'm pretty sure that the people mentioned above who are for 'banning witches' are ridiculous, and I am not defending them, even if I broadly agree with the outcome.
You forgot dressing like a huge slut.
Yes, the day will be rough for that kid, but that's life. Maybe this kid will learn that hey, being the odd one out because your parents are offended by someones witch outfit doesn't really help you in life in anyway, and then the next generation wont be quite as shitty :P
Well it's more or less covered under the 'dress up in a costume' bit.
It also happens in middle/high school, but it's far more rare, it's basically a day where you can flaunt the dress code and not catch anything for it
I suppose I would be more okay with celebrating these holidays if it were more inclusive than it is. As it is, no school marks Ramadan or Passover or Ganesh Chaturthi, it's always the Christian holidays that are celebrated, and the Christian kids who are included.
Middle/high schools have dress code?
God, Halloween is really starting to suck for kids. Can't even go out at night.
Yes, and I bet that if you went to.. fuck.. whats a decidedly not christian place.. the moon. You would find that they only celebrate Armstrong Day. And so only astronauts are really included.
And I say you then celebrate your own shit on the moon as well, and not give a fuck if anyone or everyone celebrates with you.
Yes?
They don't have dress codes where you live?
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
You haven't noticed how girls dress there, have you? Only ones with uniform codes have any kind of standards.
An awful lot of middle/high schools now have very strict dress codes that are more like uniforms.
Yeah, it was super popular at my HS. Everybody was down for a legitimate reason to give the bird to the dress code. The teachers dressed up for it too, which was cool. And they handed out candy, which was cooler.
My boss, who's Indian, loves it when people dress up. We need more people like him, and less people like the crazy wife from wife swap.
It's going to be sad when more people are celebrating Halloween as adults than as children. Most of the places I've worked allow some measure of dressing up. My current job has a costume contest.
No Feral, you see I'm from the antarctic and they don't.
Obviously dress codes exist here, but when I think "dress code" I think something that explicitly states a standard above casual. Which no, I cant say I've encountered any non-private schools in Nova Scotia that really do.
Also, the whole idea of limiting kids from dressing as pagan symbols is ridiculous. Especially when I bet they aren't going to limit angels or anything like that.
As a kid, I would've loved to learn about all the other holidays we don't celebrate. It'd have been fun I think. Unless my mom was the mother from wife-swap who foamed at the mouth about Pagan this and Pagan that.