I was planning on buying a new XBox 360 anyway so I figure I'll pay the extra $100 and pick Kinect up as well. If nothing else, the kids ought to enjoy it and it looks like there are at least a few promising games coming out later like (essentially) the new Rez & Panzer Dragoon.
I played on one today, if you're in the UK then most Game stores are "rocking" a display model. I tried out two different games, in two different stores (I was on the hunt for the £5 Sega Superstars/Fuel/Tomb Raider Legends PS3 pack, which I found. Bargain!). I would like to pre-fix all of this by saying I haven't looked in to the Kinect line up AT ALL. So I don't know any game names.
So, first off, the set up:
Store #1: Set up in the middle of the store, play area was about 6 foot back from the camera. TV was set up roughly at head height, so a little higher than most home systems (unless you're wall mounted). We had about 6 feet either side, and behind. Possibly more but people were crowding round and making it seem smaller. Lighting was fairly even, spot lights are used in the store.
Store #2: This was a smaller store and the gaming area was a bit more compact, probably still about 6 feet in front of the camera but not as much on either side or behind. Lighting again was pretty even throughout, the screen was mounted a little lower.
The games:
Store #1: They had some awful, awful game where your character is stood on a moving platform. This platform runs on rails. On these rails are obstacles which you must duck, jump and lean side to side to escape from. The lag was horrendous, you had to move about a second before you wanted your character to move. I noticed it whilst watching someone play and then got frustrated with it myself. At some points in the game you had to pull yourself through gates, to speed up (a little like the speed up gates in Sonic). Again you had to do the pulling motion in advance of going through the gates, rather than when you passed them, otherwise you'd miss your window. It was also a bit...skittish, like my character suffered from a nervous twitch. I put this bad motion detection down to the environment, or maybe I was wearing the wrong clothes.
As for the game itself, it was utterly terrible, probably passable for five minutes of fun but I was bored quickly. I assume it's part of a mini-game collection, if it's not then I hope it's bloody cheap.
Store #2: Ok, things improved a bit here. They had some dancing game on (no idea if it's the Harmonix one everyone keeps on about or a cheaper one). Lag was less noticable, though still present. However it utterly failed to work for the guy on before me, it looked like he was following the instructions and timing perfectly yet nothing was happening. I gave it a go and things seemed to work better for me. He was asian and I'm pasty white so perhaps Kinect has issues detecting certain colours.
The game seemed fun enough, something I could imagine playing at parties but never at home alone and in honesty not something I'd put money down on.
CONCLUSION (dum dum DUMMMMM)
I've bought in to a load of "fads" and extras and continue to do so. I picked up the Wii Balance Board, I'll be buying a set of Move controllers and I have three or four light guns sat at home for older consoles, not to mention arcade sticks and the Live Vision camera. I'm after a 3d tv, because I'm just a gadget whore and have to have every new bit of technology.
But I won't be getting Kinect. The games look like HD Eyetoy games, the detection is hit or miss, the camera is pretty damn ugly looking and is just something else extra to sit in front of my tv and the cost is too high. The lack of direct input also limits, at least as far as I can imagine, what games can be made for it.
At the moment platform-exclusive games are dying out, and are a pretty high risk for the developer, other than for the Wii which is cheap to develop for and has a large install base willing to buy crap. Given this how many studios are going to want to put a lot of money and resource in to developing a game for one console, that will only work on a fraction of the install base?
I just can't see this being anything but a failure.
And just as a follow up, someone mentioned the Wii before. Before it came out, I was sceptical and didn't think I wanted it. I got chance to try an instore demo of Wii Sports (Bowling and Tennis) and it completely turned me around.
The games being demo'd for Kinect have had the opposite affect.
Or is it just a clever marketing scheme to sell us all Kinect HD upgrade hardware later?
Smaller res = faster to process.
Also, the vast majority of people are still playing in SD anyway.
The resolution of the game you're playing doesn't matter in this case.
If it needs to see your whole body in a 640x480 image, then it can only sense movements as subtle as those pixels allow. A 720p camera ought to be able to be much more precise, especially with small things like digits.
And just as a follow up, someone mentioned the Wii before. Before it came out, I was sceptical and didn't think I wanted it. I got chance to try an instore demo of Wii Sports (Bowling and Tennis) and it completely turned me around.
The games being demo'd for Kinect have had the opposite affect.
I think a more apt comparison would be the Wii balance board, not the Wii itself. On the Wii I (usually) have the option between games that utilise motion control and or a regular control scheme, often within the same game.
I know everyone and their mother bought a Wii fit, but how many would have bothered buying one if we had been able to see the lineup of future games utilising the board?
Even there you're losing some resolution compared to what the camera can do. Anyway, for most games (except augmented reality) it's a non-issue, unlike the eyetoy games they don't seem to overlay you on to the screen, you get an avatar acting out your actions.
But as Sporky mentions above, it's really limiting for what it can actually make out.
I'm interested, but my interest / my finances are not enough to really justify that kind of expenditure right now.
Too bad this is US only. As for you americans, reading some of the rules I saw that you can get a few free codes a day on the website without any purchase.
Or is it just a clever marketing scheme to sell us all Kinect HD upgrade hardware later?
Smaller res = faster to process.
Also, the vast majority of people are still playing in SD anyway.
The resolution of the game you're playing doesn't matter in this case.
If it needs to see your whole body in a 640x480 image, then it can only sense movements as subtle as those pixels allow. A 720p camera ought to be able to be much more precise, especially with small things like digits.
The depth-camera has an even lower resolution.
Remember how they dropped it's onboard processor to cut costs? Yeah.
And just as a follow up, someone mentioned the Wii before. Before it came out, I was sceptical and didn't think I wanted it. I got chance to try an instore demo of Wii Sports (Bowling and Tennis) and it completely turned me around.
The games being demo'd for Kinect have had the opposite affect.
I think a more apt comparison would be the Wii balance board, not the Wii itself. On the Wii I (usually) have the option between games that utilise motion control and or a regular control scheme, often within the same game.
I know everyone and their mother bought a Wii fit, but how many would have bothered buying one if we had been able to see the lineup of future games utilising the board?
You can't be serious, nobody bought the board for its future potential applications. Everyone bought it for the one game that it came with. Anything else was considered just a bonus.
(Although We Ski is actually a lot of fun and my sister wants a board of her own just to play it.)
Kinect is being sold as a platform, not as a vehicle for one specific good game that everyone wants. That's its problem. Wii Fit was successful because it was the start of the video game-based fitness craze, not because of "all the possibilities."
I dunno, I'm just going by my armchair analysis that if I look at my TV, then tilt my head up and to the left while tilting my eyeballs down and to the right to maintain a vision lock on the screen, it is not the most natural feeling in the world. Especially on a 30 inch TV 10 feet away.
you're currently thinking in two degree. There are in fact, 6 of them:
so while obviously yawing in a FPS to turn the head would be batshit insane.
Leaning your head left or right keeps your face aligned with the TV, which makes leaning pretty easy and effective. Same goes for an up/down for say ducking behind a barrier and peeking up out of it.
Pitch would be doable by applying a little multiplication, for example you could pitch up and down to look up and down, and then do it something like 1 degree of pitch (for your head) would come out as 10 degrees of pitch for your ingame character. Of course you'd have to do some testing to figure out what the best multiplication factor would be.
Rolling is out of the question unless you are, in fact, an owl.
And just as a follow up, someone mentioned the Wii before. Before it came out, I was sceptical and didn't think I wanted it. I got chance to try an instore demo of Wii Sports (Bowling and Tennis) and it completely turned me around.
The games being demo'd for Kinect have had the opposite affect.
I think a more apt comparison would be the Wii balance board, not the Wii itself. On the Wii I (usually) have the option between games that utilise motion control and or a regular control scheme, often within the same game.
I know everyone and their mother bought a Wii fit, but how many would have bothered buying one if we had been able to see the lineup of future games utilising the board?
You can't be serious, nobody bought the board for its future potential applications. Everyone bought it for the one game that it came with. Anything else was considered just a bonus.
(Although We Ski is actually a lot of fun and my sister wants a board of her own just to play it.)
Kinect is being sold as a platform, not as a vehicle for one specific good game that everyone wants. That's its problem. Wii Fit was successful because it was the start of the video game-based fitness craze, not because of "all the possibilities."
So you're saying that the board was more like, say buying a drum kit to play Rockband with. Fair enough. I guess what it boils down to me is "is there something good to be played with this?".
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acidlacedpenguinInstitutionalizedSafe in jail.Registered Userregular
edited November 2010
and that answer is Dance Central. And the vague possibility that the panzer dragoon game and the new tekki are good and live up to their former glory.
and that answer is Dance Central. And the vague possibility that the panzer dragoon game and the new tekki are good and live up to their former glory.
But it doesn't come with it, you have to make that purchasing decision on your own. Microsoft is hyping its own games that are just knockoffs of Wii games, while only the forum gamers know about Dance Central (which is still no more compelling than Just Dance, honestly).
And as much as Dance Central looks fun, we've already had two go-rounds of Just Dance that take out the "holy shit I've never seen anything like this before" factor.
Just Dance is garbage, (my wife rented it) largely due to the limitations of the controller. Dance central does seem like it would be a much improved based on the skeletal tracking of kinect. However I'm not willing to spend $200 just to play an improved dance game.
I’ll tell you what happens in Demon’s Souls when you die. You come back as a ghost with your health capped at half. And when you keep on dying, the alignment of the world turns black and the enemies get harder. That’s right, when you fail in this game, it gets harder. Why? Because fuck you is why.
How does Dance Central improve it at all other than graphically? In both cases, you just dance (pun maybe intended). Who cares how you are judged? The point is to dance with other people and be told how you scored, and generally the people playing these games don't care how that score is determined.
What is garbage about Just Dance? Did something about it prevent you from doing the dance moves it told you to do?
Dance Central = Just Dance = video tape of some people dancing that you're supposed to dance along with. That is all they are.
Perhaps you could say Just Dance is a bit inferior as a game because there is nothing to unlock based on your performance, but that's kind of a stretch. It'd be trivial to add, but they decided not to have that because they thought it'd be more fun if people could just choose from all the songs at the start.
How's the support for Just Dance though? Are any moves or songs added to the list? I haven't played or seen the game so I don't know how much variety it provides. Harmonix is promising to add songs to Dance Central.
Also, do people really want this variety? Kinect is targeted at casual users. What kind of people buy the Rock Band DLC? I would think that it's mainly core users, but my opinion is pretty unhelpful because I don't exactly know the games' sales figures or interact with its community.
Just Dance can't detect your dance moves as well as Dance Central does. Hell Just Dance barely even registers any dance moves properly, it's like you need to sacrifice a goat to know exactly what the game wants you to do for dance moves. Dance Central at least properly recognizes you doing the dance moves and thus has a competitive aspect to it (especially since there's multiple difficulty levels and star rankings)
How does Dance Central improve it at all other than graphically? In both cases, you just dance (pun maybe intended). Who cares how you are judged? The point is to dance with other people and be told how you scored, and generally the people playing these games don't care how that score is determined.
What is garbage about Just Dance? Did something about it prevent you from doing the dance moves it told you to do?
Dance Central = Just Dance = video tape of some people dancing that you're supposed to dance along with. That is all they are.
Perhaps you could say Just Dance is a bit inferior as a game because there is nothing to unlock based on your performance, but that's kind of a stretch. It'd be trivial to add, but they decided not to have that because they thought it'd be more fun if people could just choose from all the songs at the start.
May I ask if you are a fan of dance games in general? As someone who used to play a lot of DDR and PIU for excercise, an argument could be made that I could just go take an aerobics class, but it's not the same.
I think this could be true of Just Dance and Dance Central. My family loves Just Dance but really the only thing the Wii is looking at is the remote and that doesn't work half the time in my experience. This means I'm "failing" a lot and makes the experience less engaging. From the videos I've seen so far DC seems to be a lot more accurate with your moves and scores accordingly making you feel like you are actually accomplishing something. And if it has the Harmonix style of game associated with it could be a vast improvement over JD in more than just graphics.
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So you're saying that the board was more like, say buying a drum kit to play Rockband with. Fair enough. I guess what it boils down to me is "is there something good to be played with this?".
Bingo. I bought the Move because of MAG and Socom and KZ3. I got the Wii for Zelda: TP.
I look at the kinect line up and nothing interests me. And I'm not normally one to scoff at spending hundreds of dollars on gizmos if I find them even remotely interesting (such as the GP32).
I like how they're already charging 39.99 for the fucking plastic stand that allows you to clamp the thing to the top of your TV so it stays put. Otherwise your 150 dollar camera just sort of perches up there precariously on your LCD TV while you bounce around the living room.
I know you can put it underneath the TV but for some people it's probably not optimal.
I am watching that video, and a lot of shit just doesn't make sense on what that guy was doing. He had a fucking tripod in front of him which looked like it was messing up the skeleton.
Also, I'm sure wearing a jacket and other super baggy clothes wasn't helping out much either. I highly doubt it had much to do with his height being the problem there.
Also also, setting a camera so it faces direct sunlight. Smart move there.
That whole video review looked like it was designed to mess shit up.
I am watching that video, and a lot of shit just doesn't make sense on what that guy was doing. He had a fucking tripod in front of him which looked like it was messing up the skeleton.
Also, I'm sure wearing a jacket and other super baggy clothes wasn't helping out much either. I highly doubt it had much to do with his height being the problem there.
Also also, setting a camera so it faces direct sunlight. Smart move there.
That whole video review looked like it was designed to mess shit up.
Yeah it was weird, he goes on and on about how shitty it is and how it won't be a hit but then states "I can see this thing blowing up huge when Microsoft makes an Avatar-based MMO for it"
Whaa??
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I am watching that video, and a lot of shit just doesn't make sense on what that guy was doing. He had a fucking tripod in front of him which looked like it was messing up the skeleton.
Also, I'm sure wearing a jacket and other super baggy clothes wasn't helping out much either. I highly doubt it had much to do with his height being the problem there.
Also also, setting a camera so it faces direct sunlight. Smart move there.
That whole video review looked like it was designed to mess shit up.
Yeah it was weird, he goes on and on about how shitty it is and how it won't be a hit but then states "I can see this thing blowing up huge when Microsoft makes an Avatar-based MMO for it"
Whaa??
Maybe I wasn't listening close enough, he seemed really neutral/positive in his opinions. Did he ever call it shitty? He said it wasn't working due to his height and such, he was making excuses for it, not bashing it.
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Smaller res = faster to process.
Also, the vast majority of people are still playing in SD anyway.
So, first off, the set up:
Store #1: Set up in the middle of the store, play area was about 6 foot back from the camera. TV was set up roughly at head height, so a little higher than most home systems (unless you're wall mounted). We had about 6 feet either side, and behind. Possibly more but people were crowding round and making it seem smaller. Lighting was fairly even, spot lights are used in the store.
Store #2: This was a smaller store and the gaming area was a bit more compact, probably still about 6 feet in front of the camera but not as much on either side or behind. Lighting again was pretty even throughout, the screen was mounted a little lower.
The games:
Store #1: They had some awful, awful game where your character is stood on a moving platform. This platform runs on rails. On these rails are obstacles which you must duck, jump and lean side to side to escape from. The lag was horrendous, you had to move about a second before you wanted your character to move. I noticed it whilst watching someone play and then got frustrated with it myself. At some points in the game you had to pull yourself through gates, to speed up (a little like the speed up gates in Sonic). Again you had to do the pulling motion in advance of going through the gates, rather than when you passed them, otherwise you'd miss your window. It was also a bit...skittish, like my character suffered from a nervous twitch. I put this bad motion detection down to the environment, or maybe I was wearing the wrong clothes.
As for the game itself, it was utterly terrible, probably passable for five minutes of fun but I was bored quickly. I assume it's part of a mini-game collection, if it's not then I hope it's bloody cheap.
Store #2: Ok, things improved a bit here. They had some dancing game on (no idea if it's the Harmonix one everyone keeps on about or a cheaper one). Lag was less noticable, though still present. However it utterly failed to work for the guy on before me, it looked like he was following the instructions and timing perfectly yet nothing was happening. I gave it a go and things seemed to work better for me. He was asian and I'm pasty white so perhaps Kinect has issues detecting certain colours.
The game seemed fun enough, something I could imagine playing at parties but never at home alone and in honesty not something I'd put money down on.
CONCLUSION (dum dum DUMMMMM)
I've bought in to a load of "fads" and extras and continue to do so. I picked up the Wii Balance Board, I'll be buying a set of Move controllers and I have three or four light guns sat at home for older consoles, not to mention arcade sticks and the Live Vision camera. I'm after a 3d tv, because I'm just a gadget whore and have to have every new bit of technology.
But I won't be getting Kinect. The games look like HD Eyetoy games, the detection is hit or miss, the camera is pretty damn ugly looking and is just something else extra to sit in front of my tv and the cost is too high. The lack of direct input also limits, at least as far as I can imagine, what games can be made for it.
At the moment platform-exclusive games are dying out, and are a pretty high risk for the developer, other than for the Wii which is cheap to develop for and has a large install base willing to buy crap. Given this how many studios are going to want to put a lot of money and resource in to developing a game for one console, that will only work on a fraction of the install base?
I just can't see this being anything but a failure.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
The games being demo'd for Kinect have had the opposite affect.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
The resolution of the game you're playing doesn't matter in this case.
If it needs to see your whole body in a 640x480 image, then it can only sense movements as subtle as those pixels allow. A 720p camera ought to be able to be much more precise, especially with small things like digits.
I think a more apt comparison would be the Wii balance board, not the Wii itself. On the Wii I (usually) have the option between games that utilise motion control and or a regular control scheme, often within the same game.
I know everyone and their mother bought a Wii fit, but how many would have bothered buying one if we had been able to see the lineup of future games utilising the board?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_Balance_Board#Wii
Even there you're losing some resolution compared to what the camera can do. Anyway, for most games (except augmented reality) it's a non-issue, unlike the eyetoy games they don't seem to overlay you on to the screen, you get an avatar acting out your actions.
But as Sporky mentions above, it's really limiting for what it can actually make out.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
Too bad this is US only. As for you americans, reading some of the rules I saw that you can get a few free codes a day on the website without any purchase.
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The depth-camera has an even lower resolution.
Remember how they dropped it's onboard processor to cut costs? Yeah.
You can't be serious, nobody bought the board for its future potential applications. Everyone bought it for the one game that it came with. Anything else was considered just a bonus.
(Although We Ski is actually a lot of fun and my sister wants a board of her own just to play it.)
Kinect is being sold as a platform, not as a vehicle for one specific good game that everyone wants. That's its problem. Wii Fit was successful because it was the start of the video game-based fitness craze, not because of "all the possibilities."
This and Move are supposed to extend the current generation by a number of years... I can't see it really.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
you're currently thinking in two degree. There are in fact, 6 of them:
so while obviously yawing in a FPS to turn the head would be batshit insane.
Leaning your head left or right keeps your face aligned with the TV, which makes leaning pretty easy and effective. Same goes for an up/down for say ducking behind a barrier and peeking up out of it.
Pitch would be doable by applying a little multiplication, for example you could pitch up and down to look up and down, and then do it something like 1 degree of pitch (for your head) would come out as 10 degrees of pitch for your ingame character. Of course you'd have to do some testing to figure out what the best multiplication factor would be.
Rolling is out of the question unless you are, in fact, an owl.
So you're saying that the board was more like, say buying a drum kit to play Rockband with. Fair enough. I guess what it boils down to me is "is there something good to be played with this?".
To me Dance Central = garbage.
I'm going to wait, hope and see if this pans out. If it does, I'll happily buy one.
But it doesn't come with it, you have to make that purchasing decision on your own. Microsoft is hyping its own games that are just knockoffs of Wii games, while only the forum gamers know about Dance Central (which is still no more compelling than Just Dance, honestly).
Let me tell you about Demon's Souls....
Don't need my Xbox to watch me and give me a score for it.
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
What is garbage about Just Dance? Did something about it prevent you from doing the dance moves it told you to do?
Dance Central = Just Dance = video tape of some people dancing that you're supposed to dance along with. That is all they are.
Perhaps you could say Just Dance is a bit inferior as a game because there is nothing to unlock based on your performance, but that's kind of a stretch. It'd be trivial to add, but they decided not to have that because they thought it'd be more fun if people could just choose from all the songs at the start.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBITcTqL710&feature=player_embedded#
Also, do people really want this variety? Kinect is targeted at casual users. What kind of people buy the Rock Band DLC? I would think that it's mainly core users, but my opinion is pretty unhelpful because I don't exactly know the games' sales figures or interact with its community.
Steam: CavilatRest
1up Game Night with the Kinect.
I think this could be true of Just Dance and Dance Central. My family loves Just Dance but really the only thing the Wii is looking at is the remote and that doesn't work half the time in my experience. This means I'm "failing" a lot and makes the experience less engaging. From the videos I've seen so far DC seems to be a lot more accurate with your moves and scores accordingly making you feel like you are actually accomplishing something. And if it has the Harmonix style of game associated with it could be a vast improvement over JD in more than just graphics.
-Louis C.K.
Bingo. I bought the Move because of MAG and Socom and KZ3. I got the Wii for Zelda: TP.
I look at the kinect line up and nothing interests me. And I'm not normally one to scoff at spending hundreds of dollars on gizmos if I find them even remotely interesting (such as the GP32).
I know you can put it underneath the TV but for some people it's probably not optimal.
I am watching that video, and a lot of shit just doesn't make sense on what that guy was doing. He had a fucking tripod in front of him which looked like it was messing up the skeleton.
Also, I'm sure wearing a jacket and other super baggy clothes wasn't helping out much either. I highly doubt it had much to do with his height being the problem there.
Also also, setting a camera so it faces direct sunlight. Smart move there.
That whole video review looked like it was designed to mess shit up.
Thanks champ.
Yeah it was weird, he goes on and on about how shitty it is and how it won't be a hit but then states "I can see this thing blowing up huge when Microsoft makes an Avatar-based MMO for it"
Whaa??
As if I needed another reason to wear my skinny jeans?!
Also being a black dude, I guess?
Maybe I wasn't listening close enough, he seemed really neutral/positive in his opinions. Did he ever call it shitty? He said it wasn't working due to his height and such, he was making excuses for it, not bashing it.
...skinny midget in well lit rooms with the desire to play with lizards and dance their hearts out.
Roger.
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