Video game industry thread: October's thread is done.

cloudeagle

Hi! Welcome to the sales thread. Here we talk about how games have sold, marketing, PR comments, analysis of analysts and all kinds of other business-related stuff. Occasionally we make poop jokes.

Here's a summary of what you missed since last time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMSHvgaUWc8

And now, October's info. Yes, game sales are combined across systems now. Yes, we aren't getting concrete console sales now. Yes, it sucks.

NDS - 342k (-25.3%)
360 - 325k (+30.2%)
PS3 - 250k (-22.0%)
WII - 232k (-54.3%)

NBA 2K11 (360, PS3, PS2, PSP, WII, PC) 1 TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE
Fallout: New Vegas **(360, PS3, PC) 2 BETHESDA SOFTWORKS -- 1010K
Medal of Honor **(360, PS3, PC) 3 ELECTRONIC ARTS
Fable III **(360) 4 MICROSOFT -- 580K
Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II **(360, PS3, WII, PC, NDS) 5 LUCASARTS
Halo: Reach **(360) 6 MICROSOFT -- 315K
Just Dance 2 (WII) 7 UBISOFT -- 286K
FIFA Soccer 11 (PS3, 360, WII, PS2, PSP, NDS, PC) 8 ELECTRONIC ARTS
Madden NFL 11 (360, PS3, WII, PS2, PSP) 9 ELECTRONIC ARTS
WWE Smackdown vs. Raw 2011 (PS3, 360, PS2, WII, PSP) 10 THQ
**(includes CE, GOTY editions, bundles, etc. but not those bundled with hardware)

cloudeagle

Couscous wrote: »

http://kotaku.com/5678986/rumor-resident-evil-in-the-hands-of-socom-team

Following in the trail blazed by Dead Rising 2, the next Resident Evil game may come from the Great White North. SOCOM developer Slant Six Games may be the latest studio tapped by Capcom to create its games.

A document forwarded to Kotaku indicates that a new, team-based Resident Evil game is currently in development at Slant Six. The developer is responsible for SOCOM:U.S. Navy SEALs Confrontation for the PlayStation 3 as well as two iterations for the PSP, Tactical Strike and Fireteam Bravo 3.

When contacted for comment, publisher reps said "Capcom does not respond to rumors and/or speculation."

Slant Six Games writes on its official web site that it is currently in development on "an amazing new project" that is unannounced. That project is being developed in conjunction with a "new publishing partner on a world class franchise." Several Slant Six employees list an unannounced "multiplayer action game" for the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 on their LinkedIn profiles.

In March of this year, Slant Six solicited work for a "Japanese translator/interpreter."

Capcom has looked outside of Japan for help on some of its better known franchises, including GRIN (Bionic Commando), Ninja Theory (Devil May Cry) and Blue Castle Games (Dead Rising 2), another Vancouver based studio that had its zombie project leaked well in advance.

...No, just no.

Pureauthor

What I don't get is not that Capcom is outsourcing to the West, but that Capcom appears to be constantly picking the worst possible studios to outsource to.

Santa Claustrophobia

Pureauthor wrote: »

What I don't get is not that Capcom is outsourcing to the West, but that Capcom appears to be constantly picking the worst possible studios to outsource to.

Did you know the roads and bridges and stuff that you drive on every day is built by the lowest bidder?

Pureauthor

Ha, joke's on you, buddy!

I don't drive.

RidleySaria

Pureauthor wrote: »

What I don't get is not that Capcom is outsourcing to the West, but that Capcom appears to be constantly picking the worst possible studios to outsource to.

At least they weren't previously making Barbie's Horse Adventure or something.

Corehealer

Pureauthor wrote: »

Ha, joke's on you, buddy!

I don't drive.

You don't drive, you don't understand market forces...

What can you do?

P.S. Capcom should have it's name officially changed to Crapcom in this thread.

Dritz

Glad this thread already got off with a bad analogy, it wouldn't be the same without them.

The lowest bidding contractor for making roads isn't necessarily some two bit operation cutting corners, but rather a more efficient company. Plus what kind of companies do you think can afford to bid low?

Capcom is more like a videogame company that turns to other (crappier?) developers to churn out stuff.

Henroid

Pureauthor wrote: »

Ha, joke's on you, buddy!

I don't drive.

Well, it didn't take us long to get to the car analogies. Thanks Pureauthor and Santa.

Couscous

Capcom is more like a videogame company that turns to other (crappier?) developers to churn out stuff.

No. Contractors are often needed because no single company can do all the work. Sometimes even sub-subcontractors are needed. Capcom is more like the videogame company that hire a random hobo to repair his fence, leaves the area, and wonders why it isn't fixed when he comes back after drinking lots of beer.

Santa Claustrophobia

Couscous wrote: »

Capcom is more like a videogame company that turns to other (crappier?) developers to churn out stuff.

No. Contractors are often needed because no single company can do all the work. Sometimes even sub-subcontractors are needed. Capcom is more like the videogame company that hire a random hobo to repair his fence, leaves the area, and wonders why it isn't fixed when he comes back after drinking lots of beer.

Plus, the analogy was more about how Capcom was likely going the 'cheap' route because it's cheap. Quality doesn't seem to be a major factor. And there will be very few expensive, low quality developers out there.

I've seen this in action. Dev houses that aren't particularly any good being given projects because they're at the least, cheap, and even potentially reliable in getting a product to ship. Quality is QA's expensive job.

UnbreakableVow

Pureauthor wrote: »

Ha, joke's on you, buddy!

I don't drive.

Communist

Also, damn you cloudeagle for making pre-emptive thread strikes, I usually end up seeing them way later than I saw this one

cooljammer00

But isn't there something disingenuous with Japan trying to out-America America? Stuff like Quantum Theory, which is basically muscle men with big guns.

BTP

cooljammer00 wrote: »

But isn't there something disingenuous with Japan trying to out-America America? Stuff like Quantum Theory, which is basically muscle men with big guns.

FUCK NO!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxTsjb46ECA&feature=related

Couscous

That is American in a way only foreigners can be.

UnbreakableVow

cooljammer00 wrote: »

But isn't there something disingenuous with Japan trying to out-America America? Stuff like Quantum Theory, which is basically muscle men with big guns.

Well, like Inafune mentioned, Westerners can out-Japan Japan (Dead Rising 2)

I'm sure someone can nail that in reverse

randombattle

BTP wrote: »

cooljammer00 wrote: »

But isn't there something disingenuous with Japan trying to out-America America? Stuff like Quantum Theory, which is basically muscle men with big guns.

FUCK NO!

RICHAAAAAAAAAAAAARD

Hell yeah Japan does hyper American better then America does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvaIR-9RP-k

American style games almost always boil down to special forces stereotypes going OOH-RAH!

Astale

Vanquish strikes me as american in the way Bayonetta strikes me as american.

As in it doesn't.



(edit: I should qualify that. Both strike me as over-the-top japanese style.)

UnbreakableVow

Vanquish strikes me as the way America should be

Couscous

UnbreakableVow wrote: »

Vanquish strikes me as the way America should be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI

Spoit

Why do we never go all the way to 100 pages?

Astale

Tradition?

Henroid

It's a soft-mark, not a hard one. Plenty of threads go over 100 pages.

UnbreakableVow

Couscous wrote: »

UnbreakableVow wrote: »

Vanquish strikes me as the way America should be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI

This song is the best

Because it is absolutely supposed to be parody, but does its job so well that it also instills the opposite feeling it's supposed to bring about. It leaves me conflicted.

Unco-ordinated

Astale wrote: »

Vanquish strikes me as american in the way Bayonetta strikes me as american.

As in it doesn't.



(edit: I should qualify that. Both strike me as over-the-top japanese style.)

Well, saying Vanquish is an attempt by Platinum Games to make a western game completely ignores that it was designed by the guy that basically created the modern third person shooter genre. I mean really, that's like saying Mario Galaxy's a western style game because it has similarities with Jak & Daxter.

There's also this quote from Inaba:

When we create games we don’t say ‘ok, let’s make this Japanese or let’s make this Western’. Rather, we just create something that we think is cool. For Vanquish, probably, you thought it’s very Western because of the genre.

The third person shooter is very popular in the West, and hardly any Japanese developers have made a serious attempt at creating games in this genre. However, even though this is mostly a Western style, since we are Japanese and we are based in Japan, there are likely many moments that feel Japanese.

http://www.nowgamer.com/features/975/platinum-games-atsushi-inaba

Pureauthor wrote: »

What I don't get is not that Capcom is outsourcing to the West, but that Capcom appears to be constantly picking the worst possible studios to outsource to.

Actually, they seem to be on an upwards trend. GRIN, Airtight, Ninja Theory, Blue Castle and now Slant Six. Maybe in a few years they'll go after some good developers.

Spoit: Cause cloudeagle has difficulty counting to one hundred. :P

Or he does it just in case it gets closed and no-one bothers to make a new one for a while.

Astale

I'd like to mention I wasn't implying japanese = bad, before someone henpeck's me.

I like japanese games (specially JRPGs) just fine, I just wanted to point out certain things didn't strike me as western games.

(edit: yay totp)

Unco-ordinated

Henroid wrote: »

It's a soft-mark, not a hard one. Plenty of threads go over 100 pages.

No, it isn't. It's only a soft mark when the mods aren't paying attention. I've seen plenty of threads locked when they hit or go over 100 pages.

Henroid

Unco-ordinated wrote: »

Henroid wrote: »

It's a soft-mark, not a hard one. Plenty of threads go over 100 pages.

No, it isn't. It's only a soft mark when the mods aren't paying attention. I've seen plenty of threads locked when they hit or go over 100 pages.

If it was a hard mark, people would be infracted for posting enough to make a thread go over 100 pages. It's a soft-mark, which just so happens to be followed for the most part anyway. Relax. :P

Unco-ordinated

Henroid wrote: »

Unco-ordinated wrote: »

Henroid wrote: »

It's a soft-mark, not a hard one. Plenty of threads go over 100 pages.

No, it isn't. It's only a soft mark when the mods aren't paying attention. I've seen plenty of threads locked when they hit or go over 100 pages.

If it was a hard mark, people would be infracted for posting enough to make a thread go over 100 pages. It's a soft-mark, which just so happens to be followed for the most part anyway. Relax. :P

I AM relaxed. Don't I look relaxed? Cause I am!

I can see your point, even if it has been funded by Microsoft!

Anyway, thinking over the Slant Six/RE thing, the only thing that'd make me optimistic is if it's meant to be a new RE Outbreak type of game. I always thought that game was a nice idea but the worst possible implementation, so a studio like Slant Six with experience making online games could actually be a smart choice for it.

Of course this is modern day Capcom so it's probably not that. Instead it'll be RE6 with 4 characters (3 AI's in singleplayer) and a cover mechanic. Oh and based in the middle east, with suicide bomber not-zombies.

Henroid

Can we get a link to that G4 interview carried over into this thread by the way?

Unco-ordinated

G4? Are you talking about how G4 are dooooomed? Or the translated 4G Inafune interview? Cause the latter's here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=411847

Astale

Unco-ordinated wrote: »

G4? Are you talking about how G4 are dooooomed? Or the translated 4G Inafune interview? Cause the latter's here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=411847

A lot of interesting things in that article.

What I took away from it was that the old set way of doing development was so hardwired into the developers that they couldn't affectively change, and yet their costs were effectively overrun at the same time (150+ people on franchise games that expected guaranteed but moderate profits) that they pretty much were forced to play it safe because even a single 'bomb' could put the company almost out of business.

Also a lot of complaints at most companies striving for a comfortable mediocrity rather than trying to push for a big success because the 'successful' games these days are limited to a few select franchises, most of which he gives the impression he believes are coasting by on the status quo themselves. I guess japanese publishers think that people's buying habits aren't affected by the quality of the games so much as the advertising/(I'm not sure what the term I should use here; perhaps pedigree? fame? basically franchise games). That's very cynical of them, though probably correct, but in every other market publishers still try to beat those games (even if they usually miss). I guess he hates the fact most japanese developers have stopped trying.

The bit about the cost overruns resonated with me a lot, because I've seen tons of 'successful' series die out because there just wasn't enough money to develop more than a few main franchise lines, and a lot of the smaller more innovative titles that were made during the PS1 and even PS2 era no longer are being made. I'm not sure how best to describe it, but.......basically, I used to be able to stop by the games' store once a month and discover a new RPG or RPG-lite game that I really liked. Obscure stuff. That changed a lot during the PS2 era, because costs when up, and it became much harder for developers to get funding for things that weren't sure hits. It seems during this era, PS3/XB360, I'll be lucky to find an RPG that I even MIGHT like coming out every 3 months. And even then most aren't GREAT, just okay.

I fill in the holes with this or that MMO, but you know, some days I wish we never progressed beyond the PS1. I would have been fine living with those graphics forever as long as it meant we kept development costs down enough we got a wide selection of games. Or maybe it's just nostalgia, who knows. I'm getting old.



tl,dr; He complains about how development costs are pushing the industry downward in various ways, and I pine for the old days of cheap and easy game development.

Squigie

BTP wrote: »

cooljammer00 wrote: »

But isn't there something disingenuous with Japan trying to out-America America? Stuff like Quantum Theory, which is basically muscle men with big guns.

FUCK NO!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxTsjb46ECA&feature=related

The most patriotic video game ever created, and it's made in Japan and never even released in the US. How does the world suffer such an injustice?

We all need to e-mail Roland Emmerich and tell him to start making Metal Wolf Chaos: The Movie right the fuck now. For purple mountains and liberty and puppies and shit.

plufim

Astale wrote: »

tl,dr; He complains about how development costs are pushing the industry downward in various ways, and I pine for the old days of cheap and easy game development.

Gotta give Nintendo some props for seeing this problem coming. They didn't necessarily handle it the best way, but at least they were acknowledging the problem while everyone else scoffed.

UnbreakableVow wrote: »

cooljammer00 wrote: »

But isn't there something disingenuous with Japan trying to out-America America? Stuff like Quantum Theory, which is basically muscle men with big guns.

Well, like Inafune mentioned, Westerners can out-Japan Japan (Dead Rising 2)

I'm sure someone can nail that in reverse

I dunno, Japan is still pretty good at Japaning Japan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwqfVokluRA

Cantido

A second industry collapse like in the 80's?

SkutSkut

I predict big game companies failing while the indie scene explodes into mainstream existence. A gaming renaissance if you will.

Sigtyr

It all hinges mostly on the next generation, if there is another traditional one. If Microsoft and Sony follow suite and release a graphically stronger Xbox720, or a PS4, while Nintendo sticks to modestly powerful consoles, I can see alot of companies sticking to Nintendo consoles, save for the ones that happen to make blockbusters like Call of Duty. Hell, more companies went under this generation than any other generation. It proved that even if a company makes several games, one bad game out of 4 or 5 can send them straight into the red.

UncleSporky

SkutSkut wrote: »

I predict big game companies failing while the indie scene explodes into mainstream existence. A gaming renaissance if you will.

Come to think of it I have really been playing a lot of indie games, indie games that became console games, or games from small studios in general.

Probably because they can and do take risks, or at least try something a bit different, while the big guys are just making shooter #673.

Fencingsax

UncleSporky wrote: »

SkutSkut wrote: »

I predict big game companies failing while the indie scene explodes into mainstream existence. A gaming renaissance if you will.

Come to think of it I have really been playing a lot of indie games, indie games that became console games, or games from small studios in general.

Probably because they can and do take risks, or at least try something a bit different, while the big guys are just making shooter #673.

I would argue that smaller studios have to take risks, in order to differentiate their games. The decent large studios take risks as well, but small studios much more so.

UncleSporky

That makes sense, and it's working.

Cade

How do you like your Mario, 2D or 3D :

Nintendo has been releasing two general lines of Mario games over the past generation: 3D games along the lines of Super Mario Galaxy and 2D games along the lines of New Super Mario Bros. The latter type sells far better.

So what do these sales trends mean for a 3DS version of Mario? During a Q&A session at Nintendo's earnings briefing last week, investors asked Shigeru Miyamoto to comment on just that.

Miyamoto first explained the general merits and demerits of 3D (the current polygon-based 3D). 3D visuals give players a greater sense of being part of the action and gives more freedom and choice, said Miyamoto. At the same time, some are turned off from 3D games because they appear too complex.

"When Super Mario became Mario 64, the range of players narrowed greatly," Miyamoto admitted. While he feels that Nintendo's developers were able to make use of the strong points of 3D to deliver new game experiences, they were also advancing work on games that, while 3D, can be played by everyone. This resulted in Super Mario Galaxy. Even this doesn't solve the dilemmas, though, so they also made the New Super Mario Bros. series.

Turning to 3DS, Miyamoto said, "When asked 'what will we do on 3DS,' the answer is, of course, we'll make both. They both have their own appeal."

He outlined how the 3DS's 3D display effects could help both types of Mario.

For the 3D type of Mario game -- and this includes Zelda, he said -- it can be difficult to perceive depth, for example if you multiple floors stacked up on top of one another. However, if you have a similar situation on the 3DS with the 3D effect turned on, you can more clearly see what's closer to you.

The 3DS's 3D effect also "gives a great feeling of existence to Mario, Link and others," said Miyamoto. He feels that this is important for his games, as they're made with character "weight" in mind -- that is, making the player feel like the character has weight in its movement.

For 2D Mario games, Miyamoto pointed out that we already see depth-based effects in many of the games. For example, a Wiggler (Hana-chan in Japanese) or Bullet Bill (Killer in Japanese) will fly at the the screen from afar. "It's difficult to tell when they will hit the player, so we were only able to use these lightly. However, we'll be able to use this type of thing quite a bit on the 3DS."

Following Miyamoto's response, Nintendo CEO Satoru Iwata said, "You went more in-depth than I'd been expected. This is the first I've heard of this." Miyamoto joked, "No good? Don't tell any game magazine people."