So... what's the deal? Activision has advertised things decently in the past, right? And you'd think that carpet bombing every form of media ever invented would be a key part of exploiting the shit out of things.
The deal is it's a budget title so they don't give a shit. It was developed by Sidhe, the NZ developer that developed Gripshift and Shatter.
My interest in this game has suddenly skyrocketed. Gripshift was awesome and I keep meaning to get around to picking up Shatter.
Wow, Shatter is great. I had no idea sidhe had anything to do with Gripshift. now I'm interested in that one.
Anyone got any opinions on the console versions vs. the PSP one?
So... what's the deal? Activision has advertised things decently in the past, right? And you'd think that carpet bombing every form of media ever invented would be a key part of exploiting the shit out of things.
The deal is it's a budget title so they don't give a shit. It was developed by Sidhe, the NZ developer that developed Gripshift and Shatter.
My interest in this game has suddenly skyrocketed. Gripshift was awesome and I keep meaning to get around to picking up Shatter.
Wow, Shatter is great. I had no idea sidhe had anything to do with Gripshift. now I'm interested in that one.
Anyone got any opinions on the console versions vs. the PSP one?
Haven't played the PSP version personally, but the XBox 360 version is great.
We should start getting reviews in about four minutes for Kinect games. Like most launch games, there won't be much correlation between sales and actual quality.
I think I will start using this smilie. So goddamn smug it makes me want to punch myself.
http://www.destructoid.com/
Your Shape good, Kinect Sports eh and not work 50 USD, Kinect Adventures OK but lacks variation and much to do, that dance game good.
With either product, thought, setting up the sensor with your room is fairly easy and only takes a few minutes. The console will guide you through the process, which ironically requires the use of a controller. The sensor and the Xbox 360 will then determine the average amount of background noise in your room (for voice commands) and get a general idea of how much play space it’s working with. It’s a fairly boring but quick process; below is a video of what it looks like for those interested.
Microsoft claims that six feet of space between you and the Kinect sensor is the minimum distance for play for single-player games, and that’s mostly true. In my personal space, that’s almost exactly what I have, down to the inch. All of the games I tested (with few exceptions within a few titles) were playable without problems, although you should note that whatever is limiting your space (a couch, a wall) is going to make you feel incredible cramped while playing many of the games which require movement in almost all directions.
With that said, the eight feet recommended (and necessary) for playing two-player titles is certainly more comfortable, even when you’re playing alone. More reasonably, if you want to comfortably play most of games, consider making seven feet of space your “minimum.”
With that in mind, folks who have smaller living rooms or live in small spaces (tiny apartments, dorm rooms) are mostly out of luck here. Kinect’s documentation and even one of the loading screens in Kinect Adventures recommends moving furniture to play, which is a bit of an unreasonable demand for most gamers. If you have these kind of restrictions, keep that in mind when considering a purchase, because it’s likely not going to work within your space.
There are a few tricks you can use to “get more space,” one of which is camera placement -- putting it up higher, perhaps above your television set, will give the camera a wider field of view. The result is a few extra inches, which may be the difference between playing Dance Central and fighting to get your money back from a retailer with a strict return policy. The sensor won’t sit comfortably on top of most flat screen televisions, since it has a wide base and a motor that tilts up and down; Microsoft and third-parties to sell stands and mounts, if you’re looking to go this route.
Every Kinect game you purchase will come with a “Sensor Calibration Card,” which is this… thing. It’s supposed to be happy, but there’s something discomforting about it. Check out how you’ll use the card to calibrate your space in the video below.
Once you’re all set up and ready to go, it’s easy to ditch the controller -- simply wave. While the Xbox 360 will boot to the dashboard by default, Kinect attached to the console or not, you can’t actually navigate those menus with the sensor. The dashboard still requires a controller, and Microsoft have created a completely new and separate section of the console, called “The Kinect Hub.”
Once in the hub, you can (mostly) ditch the controller and start using simple gestures and voice to navigate the menus and programs. Once Kinect recognizes that you’re there, you just hold your hang up to move an on-screen cursor over on-screen objects. To select something, you simply hold your hand over it for a few moments. Navigating screens is easy and fun, too, done by holding your hand up to either the right of left and simply “swiping” over. I found this to be responsive and definitely more engaging than simply using a d-pad or analog stick to browse menus.
In most cases, speaking conversationally to the Xbox 360 would trigger the commands just fine. But there were a number of instances where I had to repeat commands, and it was unclear as to why. Sometimes it would miss a command I spoke at a normal tone, and other times when I talked too loud or too softly. Repeating the command a second time would usually to do the trick, and it wasn’t a deal breaker for me personally, as it didn’t happen all that often.
I actually really enjoy navigating my console with gestures and voice commands, but that comes with a caveat -- I don’t like how everything seems to take twice as long to set up or load.
Every time you boot up your console, the system will dump you to the main dashboard, where you can immediately start using an Xbox 360 controller to navigate menus. If you want to use Kinect, you’re going to have to wait about 10 to 15 seconds for the sensor to initialize. While this may seen minor, it often feels like a million years considering that you could have probably been signed into your console and starting up a game within that time had you used a standard controller.
This extends to a lot of what you’ll do on Kinect Hub, too. In order to select items, you’ll hover over them and then have to wait a few second for it to select. These few seconds were chosen for obvious reasons -- you wouldn’t want to accidentally select something, would you? The time it takes to select things isn’t a negotiable option on your console, either. Microsoft’s Direct of Incubation Alex Kipman tells me studies were done to find that sweet spot for getting the timing just right, and I have no reason not to believe him. It’s definitely a bit annoying having to wait the first few times, but you do get used it.
Still, like with having to wait for the initial setup, gamers like myself who are used to getting that instant gratification may find they’d rather just keep a controller nearby.
“Kinect ID” is another new feature made possible with the sensor, one that’s supposed to recognize players as they sit in front of the camera and then sign them in. In theory, this is great -- simply sitting down in front of the console and having it greet you is a very cool proposition. The good news is that it works, and when it does, it’s very convenient. But when it doesn’t, it’s extremely aggravating, and that seemed to be more often than not.
Microsoft recommends running the Kinect ID setup in a number of situations -- morning, noon, night, with the lights on, with the lights off, wearing glasses even if you wear contacts… the list goes on. The problem is that even after performing setup in half a dozen situations, Kinect only was able to identify me only a little more than half the time. It also takes awhile for the sensor to either identify or fail to identify you; by that time, I’ve already manually signed in using voice or hand gestures.
Let there be light… or not, Kinect doesn’t seem to care
Those worried about low light situations needn’t worry; Kinect seems to deal with dim lighting just fine. In fact, Kinect appears to deal with all brightnesses (or lack thereof) just fine, whether it’s with my ceiling-high windows letting in the sun, or having all of the lights off and watching a movie in the dark. It’s not suggested you shine a spotlight on you or your Kinect sensor, but real world, normal lighting situations really don’t seem to affect performance.
Gesture commands on the other hand are cool -- you just wave at the Xbox to bring up the hand icon -- but come with their own set of problems. Once hand gestures are activated (they can be used to scrub a film’s timeline, or simply pause or start a video), you’d hope Kinect would be smart enough to only pick up on intentional gestures. But if you’ve just started up a movie using your hand, be careful when you sit back -- any movement of your hand or arm might accidentally get picked up and bring up the cursor. In fact, while sitting down on my couch and eating a bowl of ice cream, raising the spoon to my mouth nearly stopped one video altogether before I realized what was happening.
It’s confusion like that which had me wishing Kinect wasn’t watching, and that I just had a remote control sitting by my side. The voice and gesture stuff is cool, and I’ll probably find myself using it in limited situations. Still, it definitely needs a bit more tweaking before unseating the traditional remote control (or an Xbox 360 controller as one) from its throne.
The lag factor, and why it didn't matter
It's going to come up, so I might as well address it. Everyone wants to know how much lag there is between your gestures and what happens on the screen. We've seen the videos where the lag is obviously perceivable, and we've even had folks pulling out calculators and counting frames.
Here's the thing: I won't lie and say there isn't discernable lag. There is. It's definitely there, and it's mostly noticeable when moving a cursor around a screen, giving it a "floaty feel." But when it comes to usability and even gameplay, this discrepancy is negligible; there was never a time when I felt a true disconnect between what I was doing and what was happening on the screen.
I'm not going to count how many nanoseconds difference there is between when I move my hand and when my on-screen Avatar waves. Some will and there's going to be a lot of back and forth about how awful (or not awful) it is, I'm positive of it. But if developers write software in smart ways, this discordance will be irrelevant, and fortunately that's the case for most of the games I've tested.
The worst knock on Kinect seems to be that it needs a lot of room. True? Sadly, yes. You can play single-player Kinect games at the same distance you've held a wired game controller plugged into a game console. For multiplayer or for more dynamic dancing and workout games you need more room than you do to play four-player Wii Sports tennis, more room than you need to jam with a full group in Rock Band. Can you fit a pool table in front of your TV? You'll need about that much room, because the Kinect sensor needs to see you. Can't be too close; can't be to far to the side. Be it my Brooklyn condo or Crecente's more standard-sized Denver house, we both had to adjust our living rooms to fully enjoy Kinect. Those with cramped quarters could find Kinect to be a non-starter.
It was ironic that in searching for an electric socket in which to plug my Kinect a week ago, I had to unplug my Wii. I now need to find a second socket. Kinect doesn't replace the Wii any more than it does an Xbox controller. It's not even a sure thing as a games platform, not until it has its first great game. But it doesn't have to be. If Kinect becomes nothing more than a replacement for the TV remote, it's a winner. Right now, at its price, it needs to be more. If Microsoft keeps supporting it and if its flaws can be patched and improved through software, it can be revolutionary.
If I had faith in developers, I might think it could work. I can't wait for some good ol' crash and burns from developers that they will blame on casuals instead of their own incompetence.
Kinect Adventures: Kinect Adventures is a wonderful introduction to Kinect's flavor of motion gaming. Playing a game with nothing in your hands takes a bit of getting used to but Kinect Adventures manages to both ease you into that experience and make the learning curve fun. Packed with four difficulty settings, quite a few levels in each activity and the ability to earn not just achievements but animated statues, Kinect Adventures is the sort of game you'll end up coming back to again and again.
Kinect Sports: Kinect Sports offers an interesting variety of games to play alone and with friends. It's fun when it works, but it doesn't always work. Having a bowling ball or a javelin stick to your hand or a boxer have a sudden spasms can ruin the experience. In the end that's going to be the greatest challenge this Kinect game faces. A great experience, no matter how fun, can't survive working only most of the time.
Dance Central: When I first tried Dance Central I said I thought it was the best Kinect game at E3. I also said it was the game with the greatest potential at the show. I haven't changed my mind. It would be nice if the game had more features, more modes and perhaps twice the music, but the core concept works beautifully. Like Rock Band, Dance Central creates an illusion and puts you at the center of it.
Kinectimals: For kids I expect Kinectimals to be an irresistible showpiece that delights them simply by letting them feel like they have a cute tiger cub they can pet by scratching the air in front of their TV. For traditional gamers, Kinectimals is worth a look. There's meat on its bones and a successful abundance of simple but smart Kinect tech tricks.
Your Shape: Fitness Evolved: Your Shape: Fitness Evolved is the rough draft of something that could be great. A home workout system that can track and audibly correct your body movements would be a magnificent boon to people who can't afford or are otherwise unable to exercise outside of their home. Your Shape is not a great workout alternative for those who already have a fit lifestyle. It may not be ideal for those who want some of the long-form workout-tracking that competing exercise games offer. Nevertheless, it is an advance, a worthy option with an exciting future.
Kinect Joy Ride: Kinect Joy Ride is not your Gran Turismo killer nor your Forza replacement. It's a simplified racing game that sacrifices as many sacred cows as Wii Sports Tennis. But while the Wii launch game was a streamlined successful transformation of a genre that hadn't been huge in games since Pong, Joy Ride is, at best and at worst, as fun as it is unnecessary. Half-pipe makes this game one to get for parties if you are already committed to a Kinect, but otherwise this is a low-priority racing game in a genre packed with even bigger, more fully-functional competitors.
I'm pleasantly surprised at the reception that Kinect Adventures is getting. Sounds like a fun game and a good showcase piece and not the complete throwaway I was expecting.
EDIT: I thought it was just a rafting game, so I'm glad to hear that there's more to it than that, even if it lacks the depth and variety you would expect out of an AAA game.
When your 360 powers on and starts up it takes you to the normal dashboard, and then the Kinect takes about 20 seconds or so to start up itself, almost like booting a second computer attached to the 360. The motors come to life to find your floor, and then it looks up and you're good to go. Once you speak or wave to it the first time, you switch to the Kinect-specific dashboard called the Kinect Hub. It works well, and even sitting down on couch, in dim light, it was able to scan my face and recognize me. Here's the weird part: even when it knew who I was, it didn't switch my account over to the correct Gamertag. I had to do that manually with a controller, or sign out the current account in the Kinect hub. What's important is that when I played a game, I played it as myself, even though the 360 was using another Gamertag.
(Just in case that's a little confusing, imagine you're logged into your wife's account when the 360 starts up. The Kinect will look at your face when you begin playing, and know who it is, but you will still be in your wife's account. When you begin playing a game, however, your Avatar and Gamerscore appear correctly. If you look at the list of accounts, both will be signed in.)
Voice controls are also hit and miss, although they tend towards the hit. "Xbox," I say, which brings up the voice commands list. "Next." It takes me to the next section. "Zune," I tell it. Nothing. "ZUNE," I repeat. Nothing. "ZUNE!" I say again, and still nothing happens. "ZUNE!" I yell, and then it takes me to the Gamertag login, where suddenly none of my voice commands do anything, and waving fails to bring up the cursor. I'm stuck, and have to find a controller. I try using my voice again to say "Open Tray," and that works, which is a really weird voice command when you think about it. I can't say, "Now go find my copy of Halo Reach and put it in yourself," can I? After restarting the system I was able to access the Zune software using voice commands, and haven't had a problem since
Using the Zune functionality was like using most of the Kinect's media functions: fun, but limited. It's nice to be able to say "Xbox, Next," and skip the tracks you don't like if you're reading a book and you don't want to reach for a controller. What would be really amazing is a voice command to play specific artists. "Xbox, play Deftones," for instance. Using voice commands is helpful if you want to skip to the next song without putting down your book, but for anything more complex you'll want a controller.
The voice commands, matched with your hand movements, work well most of the time, but when they don't it's a pain in the butt. Sometimes, I'd be waving to get the system's attention, and it would take a few tries to turn on the cursor. Other times I would get to a menu where no voice commands seemed to want to work. This is all neat in a tech-demo sort of way, but it's not as good as using a controller and buttons. It's slower, less accurate, and you have to remember to speak in a loud, clear voice and move in a consistent way.
It's also annoying to note everything you can't do with the Kinect. Launch an XBLA game? No. Play a movie on Netflix? No. The Kinect Hub seems almost like a demo for what's coming soon, and not any kind of replacement for the standard dashboard. In fact, if you're a heavy gamer you'll be switching back and forth so often you may just decide to skip the Kinect-style navigation and stick with the controller. Why use something that's slower and doesn't give you access to all your content?
The other thing I learned is my living room is fine in terms of space for most games, but for others I could have used about four extra feet of space away from my television. Eight to ten feet works best, which is a little farther than what the instructions suggest, and you'll want even more for two-player games. Also, clear your floor. This isn't a polite suggestion, and in a house with two school-age kids and one baby it can be quite the job. I skipped it one day, and as I lunged to the right to block a virtual soccer ball, my foot landed on a DVD case and slid out from under me, slamming my bare foot into my sofa. It hurt like hell.
As you move and react to the game, you will lose a sense of the space around you. You need more space than you think. Each game is $50, and we'll have more software reviews for you in the near future.
A big part of the Kinect experience is intangible, and as I write about these games I'm realizing how bad they sound on paper. The thing is, I'm having fun. The minigame in Kinect Sports where people hit things at you and you have to dodge, dip, duck, and dive out of the way to avoid getting hit is fun. Knocking one ping pong ball after another back to the other player in another minigame is fun. There is a lot to do here, and it's all a good time, but when you play these games one after another you begin to see what the Kinect can't do. You can't move any of the characters directly—you can just control their arms and legs and maybe shift them back and forth. That's it.
...
Bowling is what you'd expect it to be: you reach your arm straight out, you're automatically given a ball, and then you swing your arm back and forward to bowl. It's a matter of speed and angle; without a button to hit to tell the game when to let go, the software has to take care of it for you. This is a trend you're going to see often in these games: without any buttons, there are some things the games are going to have to do for you. It's frustrating.
...
Kinect Sports may sound limited on paper, but in practice it's much better than it sounds, and provides a variety of fun experiences that really show off what the hardware can do. The music is also licensed, so hearing Queen blasting out of the speakers when you do well is a thrill. I liked this much more than I expected to, especially the Soccer events, but at $50 it's still something of a hard sell.
It's (Joyride) a fun game, and the cartoony graphics are certainly inviting, but without acceleration or braking there just doesn't seem to be that much to do. Pretending to turn a wheel, even with visual feedback from the screen, is not as accurate as either a controller or a physical racing wheel. I also found myself missing the rumble of a controller as I hit a corner or bumped into a car. I felt very disconnected from the game.
The lack of buttons with the Kinect is a big, big problem. There are very basic things that none of these games do. Controlling a character in a third- or first-person game? There is no easy way to do that, so no one does. The racing game takes control of the gas and braking away from you, because there is no way for the player to control it. Bowling doesn't allow you to control when you let go of the ball. There were multiple times when I wished for a button or two so the software didn't have to hold my hand quite as much.
Also, many of these games are fun and the experience really is impressive, but where do we go from here? I get the uneasy feeling that we've already seen most of what the hardware can do in terms of games, at least until Microsoft admits defeat with the lack of buttons and creates games that use both the Kinect hardware and a physical controller. Notice how many games mirror each other, in a thin selection of genres. How many times are we hitting balls coming at us with our hands and body? How many fitness and dancing games do we need? The demos for the upcoming Star Wars and Harry Potter games also seem too similar: you stand there, defeat all the enemies, move forward on rails, and repeat.
The Move side-steps all these issues by having you hold one or two controllers. Sony's solution also allows for more precision in movement, as we saw when we compared the Table Tennis games on the two pieces of hardware. You can twist the Move controller in your hand and your on-screen counterpart rotates its wrist in the same way. With the Kinect, your hands are more like static blocks; there is no fine control.
We've played a variety of games on both pieces of hardware, and there are very few things the Kinect does that the Move cannot—at least so far—but there are many things that the Move does that the Kinect is simply unable to replicate. Some of them are as simple as moving a character in a game, or deciding when to apply breaks in a racing game. These are very basic things that developers are going to have to get very creative to work around.
There is also the issue of space: you need a lot of it to play multiplayer games, or to be comfortable playing single-player games. Take a peek at that sample living room image again—if your room doesn't look like a wide open gymnasium with a ton of clearance, you're going to have problems. The Move doesn't have these limitations, and most games will work just as well if you're sitting on your couch or standing in front of your screen. The Move will work in nearly any environment, where the Kinect helpfully suggests you move your couch out of the way and may chide you for having a playing space that's too small. There are going to be many potential customers who simply don't have the space near their systems to play Kinect games. That seems terribly limiting for a product that Microsoft hopes will have wide appeal.
Which isn't to say the picture is bleak. These games are fun, and they make you sweat, and when it all works well the experience draws you into the game in a way that's absolutely amazing. Every now and again I did get the feeling I was playing something very special, and nearly magical. For casual gamers, and those with a family, this is very cool stuff. The question, at least when it comes to games, is where things go from here.
The Kinect, in a vacuum, is a cool piece of tech. The games are fun, although very few of them are worth the asking price. It's also clear just how limited the technology is. The Move and the Wiimote can do so much more when it comes to controlling games, and that's because of one thing: buttons.
It's telling that when I play a game with the Move after spending a week with the Kinect everything seems more satisfying with the Move. The cursor has less lag on the screen. When I want to make a selection I just hit a button instead of hovering it over my selection for a few moments. Without buttons, there are many things the Kinect can't let you control, which makes the games feel dumbed down in places. A core game like a third- or even first-person shooter? Nearly impossible. Look at how many games here have your character standing still, or being on a moving platform, or the game does things for you because there is no way to control them with motion? It's a major problem, and it's unclear whether or not anyone has a solution. I'd love to be proven wrong.
We're going to come out and say it: Microsoft is going to release a Move-style controller for the Kinect within a year or so. Both gamers and developers are going to be frustrated by all the things the hardware can't do, and they'll demand a way to interact with games using at least one or two buttons. It's not a coincidence that so many games at launch are in the same few genres, you know. The hardware simply can't handle much else.
We had fun with the games and the hardware, but $150 for the camera and $50 per game? Not yet. Close, but not yet.
I'm pleasantly surprised at the reception that Kinect Adventures is getting. Sounds like a fun game and a good showcase piece and not the complete throwaway I was expecting.
EDIT: I thought it was just a rafting game, so I'm glad to hear that there's more to it than that, even if it lacks the depth and variety you would expect out of an AAA game.
Yeah. It seems to lack the problems that Kinect Sports has such as being unintuitive in not being able to use your wrist to control angle and stuff like that.
Joyride sounds like what you would expect from something quickly changed to work with Kinect. The fitness game is good from the sounds of it. Ditto with the dance game.
I just really don't expect developers to do jack shit with it as Ars Technica also seems to expect.
The space requirement sounds like a real problem. Most of the reviews I am seeing are mentioning it as a problem.
It turns out it needs goddamn buttons. BUTTONS FOR THE BUTTON GOD!
Voice commands seem to be a bit hit and miss. Some places report them working perfectly while others have problems. They all say they are really lacking with such things as not being able to turn the console off with a voice command and a lack of ability to use it with shit like the motherfucking Netflix.
These reviews are sounding... more positive than people seem to have expected in this thread. Then again, I think the only word in anyone's vocabulary here is "doomed." Can't you guys at least get a thesaurus or something?
These reviews are sounding... more positive than people seem to have expected in this thread. Then again, I think the only word in anyone's vocabulary here is "doomed." Can't you guys at least get a thesaurus or something?
Well the blurb at the end is basically "they aren't abysmally bad like everyone was expecting, but they're still not worth the purchase price, and we fully expect them to give in and add a move/wii style controller before they can begin to make games worth buying".
So, well, DOOOOOOOOOOMED (until they wise up and add a controller)
Well the blurb at the end is basically "they aren't abysmally bad like everyone was expecting, but they're still not worth the purchase price, and we fully expect them to give in and add a move/wii style controller before they can begin to make games worth buying".
So, well, DOOOOOOOOOOMED (until they wise up and add a controller)
"More positive" is merely a relative term. A person who is simply bad at something is better than someone that is the worst at something. It doesn't mean they were any good to begin with.
For hard-core gamers, Kinect is a box full of potential, offering tantalizing glimpses at how full-body control could be used for game designs that simply wouldn’t work any other way. But at launch, the available games get tripped up by Kinect’s limitations more than they are liberated by the control system’s abilities.
Besides bringing better software and more robust dashboard functionality, the coming months and years should get us closer to finding out if the very premise upon which Kinect is based is true or not.
It’s clear Microsoft will attract new users based solely on the “wow” factor of controlling your television holding absolutely nothing in your hands. For that reason, Kinect is undeniably cool.
But your grandparents watch plenty of TV, right? Even though the only way to control it is by using a remote with 100 tiny buttons?
tl;dr Buttons. I DESIRE BUTTONS
Well, that and hope future games don't turn out to be as limited as with the current crop of games.
Let’s get the biggest problem out of the way first: Direct sunlight on your body kills
Kinect. Sunshine doesn’t make the controller slightly less accurate — it completely obliterates the sensor’s ability to see you. I was rocking out to Lady Gaga in Harmonix’s excellent Kinect launch title Dance Central, but as soon as the sun streamed in through my west-facing windows that afternoon, the game couldn’t read my poker face — or my poker arms or poker legs, for that matter.
Closing my blinds helped a little, but the sunlight that shone in through the cracks and hit parts of my body caused me to be invisible in Kinect’s eyes.
Kinect also has some pretty serious space requirements. I am a city dweller with a studio apartment, and even though I have a good amount of distance between me and my television, I barely have enough room to play some games. You need to be at least 6 feet back from the TV and have enough clear horizontal space to play many of the minigames in Kinect Adventures.
For example, I can play Rally Ball, a minigame in which you use your body to play a sort of 3-D version of Arkanoid, bouncing balls into the screen to break blocks. But I pretty much know that if a ball is headed for the lower left corner of the screen, I’m not going to hit it — I’m going to jam my foot into my bed.
Rally Ball is one of the better uses of Kinect I’ve seen, something fun and challenging that’s truly only possible with this hardware. But it is not rearrange-my-furniture fun.
These reviews are sounding... more positive than people seem to have expected in this thread. Then again, I think the only word in anyone's vocabulary here is "doomed." Can't you guys at least get a thesaurus or something?
Don't worry. Before long it'll change over to statements about Kinect collecting dust.
These reviews are sounding... more positive than people seem to have expected in this thread. Then again, I think the only word in anyone's vocabulary here is "doomed." Can't you guys at least get a thesaurus or something?
Don't worry. Before long it'll change over to statements about Kinect collecting dust.
These reviews are sounding... more positive than people seem to have expected in this thread. Then again, I think the only word in anyone's vocabulary here is "doomed." Can't you guys at least get a thesaurus or something?
Don't worry. Before long it'll change over to statements about Kinect collecting dust.
After it becomes self-aware, it will make sure you dust it or else.
As you'll be reminded at least once every game, Kinect recommends (and at times requires) that you be six to eight feet away from the sensor while in play, with no coffee table or ottoman in your way. This isn't exactly the easiest setup to obtain, especially in apartments and dormitories. We set up the Kinect in multiple locations, and none of them were quite right -- we moved couches, twisted the TV diagonally, even pushed back the sensor a few inches to maximize as much space as possible. Point is, the six feet isn't just a recommendation, it's pretty much a requirement.
Whenever you turn on the Xbox 360, Kinect will do what it can to detect human life, and in doing so will use its motorized vertical tilt to get said individuals into the frame as much as possible. If it's the first time using the device, you'll be prompted to calibrate the audio. It takes several minutes, but you'll definitely want to endure -- in essence, it's learning what audio will be ambient / coming from the television (and therefore can be ignored) versus your own vocal cord vibrations. It's how you'd be able to, theoretically, watch a video of someone sternly screaming "Xbox" and the Kinect sensor never mistaking it for a voice command.
If you need to set up the play space, there's a "smiley face" calibration card, of sorts, that comes bundled with Kinect Adventures and a handful of other games. Assuming lighting conditions are ideal -- not too bright (presumably for the infrared), not too dim for the webcam to detect anything -- you'll be walking forwards and backwards a lot as you try to line up the card with on-screen glasses. Seriously.
Does this sound really ridiculous to anybody else?
Couscous on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
With a reputation of being one of the fastest creatures in the gaming universe, Sonic is no stranger to the racing genre. Hoping to emulate the success of Nintendo’s popular kart racers, Sonic’s mediocre entries in the Sonic Riders franchise consistently fall short of winning first place. The latest attempt, Sonic Free Riders, uses Microsoft’s Kinect technology, placing you in the Sonic universe as you zip around a limited number of courses – or at least try to. Spotty body detection turns what could have been a unique racing experience into a flaming wreck.
The bulk of Sonic Free Riders is broken up into missions, each one preceded by cutscenes (which you should skip) featuring grating dialogue between characters. What’s worse is that you’re required to go through a calibration exercise before every mission, which involves standing sideways as if you are on an Extreme Gear board, and leaning back and forth to make your way around a series of cones. As far as I could tell, this process doesn’t contribute to solidifying controls whatsoever and only serves to delay the action.
Missions include standard races, timed challenges, coin collection, trick execution, and gaining as much air as possible, though that’s easier said than done. Successfully completing jumps and sharp turns on more complex tracks is hit-and-miss, since your movements don’t always register. This results in a lot of wall grinding and unintentional trips down side paths. Power-ups, a necessary evil in arcade racers, are plentiful and require unique arm movements to activate. Gestures like shaking your arm in the air to rattle up a soda can for a rocket boost or a football throw for a missle launch don’t always work when you need them to and can cost you place in a race.
Yeah, this isn't even going to sell as a launch title.
It feels, frankly, a lot like your first experience with the Wii; it's not quite as capable as you imagined, but it is inescapably, totally new. And there's no question that non-gamers will be blown away by it, although most will probably find it too expensive.
If you're excited at the prospect of Kinect, or simply love new gaming hardware, you should absolutely pick a unit up. The sci-fi frisson of new technology it provides is something we haven't experienced in the last five years, and if you're that way inclined, it's worth the £130. At that price it's a lot cheaper than the only current alternative, a 3D telly. There are some good, if not great, games available right away, and it's a wonderful family toy.
If you're a floating voter, you should wait. Kinect will get better with time and its defining games are still to come. Here's hoping Microsoft and its partners can rise to the challenge of this new form of gaming better than most have with the Wii. Kinect deserves it.
These reviews are sounding... more positive than people seem to have expected in this thread. Then again, I think the only word in anyone's vocabulary here is "doomed." Can't you guys at least get a thesaurus or something?
Don't worry. Before long it'll change over to statements about Kinect collecting dust.
After it becomes self-aware, it will make sure you dust it or else.
I'm half-surprised Microsoft didn't include something that made Kinect dust itself, going by their addition of the motorised tilt function. That device alone is the reason why Kinect needs to be plugged into either a 360 Short or a second power socket. Why the user couldn't just tilt it themselves, I don't know.
These reviews are sounding... more positive than people seem to have expected in this thread. Then again, I think the only word in anyone's vocabulary here is "doomed." Can't you guys at least get a thesaurus or something?
The reviews were never going to be scathing, it has a sizable marketing budget after all.
'Sides when has anyone in here said it's "doomed" except when in jest? Most people here seem to think it'll do well at launch but interest will drop off once people realise it's a pretty bloody expensive device to play a handful of mediocre to crap games. And everything since E3 has only reinforced this opinion. Half a billion dollar market budget, yet the lineup still looks attrocious.
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
edited November 2010
Man, I knew space was going to be an issue, but hearing that MS has seemingly undershot the space requirements with their already hefty demands is pretty fucking damning.
That and it sounds like people had mixed to bad experiences with the voice/hand motion control on the dashboard and in movies, which is really disappointing, as that's probably the only really legitimate use the peripheral will have six months down the line.
I sure would enjoy paying $200 for a Kinect down in Australia! Fuck I hate prices here, I'm betting the 3DS will be $250-$300.
If you have a slim 360 then you could easily import a cheaper unit from the UK (or anywhere really but I'd recommend the UK to avoid regional restrictions if even they apply in this case). PM me if you want to be pointed to a bunch of uk online retailers which ship to Australia.
I'd expect the 3DS to retail from $300AUD+
Edit: Changed "UK retailers who ship to the UK" to what I meant:P
'Sides when has anyone in here said it's "doomed" except when in jest? Most people here seem to think it'll do well at launch but interest will drop off once people realise it's a pretty bloody expensive device to play a handful of mediocre to crap games. And everything since E3 has only reinforced this opinion. Half a billion dollar market budget, yet the lineup still looks attrocious.
I mainly just wanted to make fun of the overuse of the word doomed.
We must not be looking at the same scores. They look pretty scathing to me, on the 5 to 10 scale that game journalists use, and keeping in mind that this is supposed to be a revolutionary new system launch according to Microsoft:
Metacritic Averages
Dance Central - 83
Sports - 78
Kinectimals - 76
(Sonic Free Riders - No metacritic average, average of two listed reviews is 66)
Adventures - 65
(Your Shape - No metacritic average, only listed review is 60)
Joyride - 58
(Adrenalin Misfits - No metacritic average, only listed review is 50)
(Fighters Uncaged - No metacritic average, only listed review is 20)
Score don't really matter. What matters is whether people think it looks fun or not. Microsoft is going to spend a lot of money to make it look fun. That and retailers will be pushing Move and Kinect as THE holiday gifts this year.
Score don't really matter. What matters is whether people think it looks fun or not. Microsoft is going to spend a lot of money to make it look fun. That and retailers will be pushing Move and Kinect as THE holiday gifts this year.
If only Nintendo wasn't around. Once again I think Nintendo will come out on top holiday season.
Score don't really matter. What matters is whether people think it looks fun or not. Microsoft is going to spend a lot of money to make it look fun. That and retailers will be pushing Move and Kinect as THE holiday gifts this year.
If only Nintendo wasn't around. Once again I think Nintendo will come out on top holiday season.
Probably, but I've already been hearing radio stations here giving away "this years big holiday gift. The Move!" I get a feeling I'll be seeing a lot of "reporting" of these two "new" motion systems for the next month.
Probably, but I've already been hearing radio stations here giving away "this years big holiday gift. The Move!" I get a feeling I'll be seeing a lot of "reporting" of these two "new" motion systems for the next month.
The Move is basically Ross Perot stealing votes from Kinect (Bush) which will ultimately lead to the Wii (Clinton) winning.
Wii Sports only has a gamerankings average of 76% so I would take any scores of early Kinect stuff with a grain of salt.
Are you trying to say that it ranks low but sold well, or that it ranks low but is more fun than sites give it credit for?
In other words, are you echoing Microsoft that it'll sell regardless, or saying that the scores are undeserved?
Both. The game reviewers that gave Wii Sports mediocre ratings might very well feel that they're being fair to how they feel about the game, but they aren't the target audience for most of these games. It would be like me reviewing a soccer game - I would probably have drastically less fun than someone who actually cares about soccer would. I expect the same thing with a lot of Kinect games.
Or to put it another way, it's like people being disappointed by something like Brutal Legend because it wasn't a Zelda clone, rather than appreciating it for what it is.
A lot of these Kinect reviews are praising Wii Sports about doing it better but then giving the Kinect game a higher score than they gave Wii Sports back in the day. It's kinda weird.
Wii Sports only has a gamerankings average of 76% so I would take any scores of early Kinect stuff with a grain of salt.
Are you trying to say that it ranks low but sold well, or that it ranks low but is more fun than sites give it credit for?
In other words, are you echoing Microsoft that it'll sell regardless, or saying that the scores are undeserved?
Both. The game reviewers that gave Wii Sports mediocre ratings might very well feel that they're being fair to how they feel about the game, but they aren't the target audience for most of these games. It would be like me reviewing a soccer game - I would probably have drastically less fun than someone who actually cares about soccer would. I expect the same thing with a lot of Kinect games.
Or to put it another way, it's like people being disappointed by something like Brutal Legend because it wasn't a Zelda clone, rather than appreciating it for what it is.
I'm not worried about the high-70s score for Kinect Sports.
I am concerned about the lack of higher scores for nearly everything else. The Wii had a few more good games for launch than this does. (More diverse games as well.)
Then again, the fact that the Kinect is loaded with potential, but with the caveat that it'll need some clever programming to get past the fiddliness, makes me think that third parties will tread this much like the Wii, only moreso. The big companies, for the most part, are happier to refine and dazzle rather than actually innovate. This thing will pretty much require innovation, which will take more time, money and imagination than most publishers will be willing to put into it.
But I get the feeling that this will sell really well, at least at first. My wife saw a commercial for Dance Central and asked me why we didn't own that yet.
The Wii had a few more good games for launch than this does. (More diverse games as well.)
Let's compare:
Noteworthy Wii launch titles:
Excite Truck
Twilight Princess
Red Steel
Super Monkey Ball
Trauma Center: Second Opinion
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Rayman Raving Rabbids
Wii Sports
Noteworthy Kinect launch titles:
Kinect Adventures
Kinect Sports
Kinectimals
Dance Central
A couple exercise games
Maybe something else (don't have reviews of everything yet)
The Wii lineup did look better, but keep in mind that some of those were ports that didn't really take advantage of the Wii's feature in any really meaningful way (like Zelda & Ultimate Alliance).
If you compare Kinect to the Wii Fit board (and they're about the same price if you're buying Kinect with a console bundle instead of standalone), things look much better. The Kinect library already looks much better at launch than the Wii Fit Board library looks now.
Posts
Wow, Shatter is great. I had no idea sidhe had anything to do with Gripshift. now I'm interested in that one.
Anyone got any opinions on the console versions vs. the PSP one?
Haven't played the PSP version personally, but the XBox 360 version is great.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
I think I will start using this smilie.
Your Shape good, Kinect Sports eh and not work 50 USD, Kinect Adventures OK but lacks variation and much to do, that dance game good.
My pessimism senses are tingling!
The kinect calibration card. Creepy!
EDIT: I thought it was just a rafting game, so I'm glad to hear that there's more to it than that, even if it lacks the depth and variety you would expect out of an AAA game.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
Yeah. It seems to lack the problems that Kinect Sports has such as being unintuitive in not being able to use your wrist to control angle and stuff like that.
Joyride sounds like what you would expect from something quickly changed to work with Kinect. The fitness game is good from the sounds of it. Ditto with the dance game.
I just really don't expect developers to do jack shit with it as Ars Technica also seems to expect.
The space requirement sounds like a real problem. Most of the reviews I am seeing are mentioning it as a problem.
It turns out it needs goddamn buttons. BUTTONS FOR THE BUTTON GOD!
Voice commands seem to be a bit hit and miss. Some places report them working perfectly while others have problems. They all say they are really lacking with such things as not being able to turn the console off with a voice command and a lack of ability to use it with shit like the motherfucking Netflix.
I skimmed most of it actually, but I demand sound bites!
(edit: and of course just as I'm writing this someone does just that, dammit)
Well the blurb at the end is basically "they aren't abysmally bad like everyone was expecting, but they're still not worth the purchase price, and we fully expect them to give in and add a move/wii style controller before they can begin to make games worth buying".
So, well, DOOOOOOOOOOMED (until they wise up and add a controller)
Well, that and hope future games don't turn out to be as limited as with the current crop of games.
Don't worry. Before long it'll change over to statements about Kinect collecting dust.
Just like the Wii! OH SNAPS AM I RIGHT GUYS?
AM.
I.
RIGHT.
After it becomes self-aware, it will make sure you dust it or else.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/04/kinect-for-xbox-360-review/ Does this sound really ridiculous to anybody else?
--- good ---
--- so so ---
--- some people on this forum ---
http://gameinformer.com/games/sonic_free_riders/b/xbox360/archive/2010/11/03/review.aspx Yeah, this isn't even going to sell as a launch title.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
I'm half-surprised Microsoft didn't include something that made Kinect dust itself, going by their addition of the motorised tilt function. That device alone is the reason why Kinect needs to be plugged into either a 360 Short or a second power socket. Why the user couldn't just tilt it themselves, I don't know.
The reviews were never going to be scathing, it has a sizable marketing budget after all.
'Sides when has anyone in here said it's "doomed" except when in jest? Most people here seem to think it'll do well at launch but interest will drop off once people realise it's a pretty bloody expensive device to play a handful of mediocre to crap games. And everything since E3 has only reinforced this opinion. Half a billion dollar market budget, yet the lineup still looks attrocious.
KinectCard is watching you naked.
That and it sounds like people had mixed to bad experiences with the voice/hand motion control on the dashboard and in movies, which is really disappointing, as that's probably the only really legitimate use the peripheral will have six months down the line.
If you have a slim 360 then you could easily import a cheaper unit from the UK (or anywhere really but I'd recommend the UK to avoid regional restrictions if even they apply in this case). PM me if you want to be pointed to a bunch of uk online retailers which ship to Australia.
I'd expect the 3DS to retail from $300AUD+
Edit: Changed "UK retailers who ship to the UK" to what I meant:P
I mainly just wanted to make fun of the overuse of the word doomed.
I have to say it's about how I expected, which is underwhelming at best.
If only Nintendo wasn't around. Once again I think Nintendo will come out on top holiday season.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
Probably, but I've already been hearing radio stations here giving away "this years big holiday gift. The Move!" I get a feeling I'll be seeing a lot of "reporting" of these two "new" motion systems for the next month.
Are you trying to say that it ranks low but sold well, or that it ranks low but is more fun than sites give it credit for?
In other words, are you echoing Microsoft that it'll sell regardless, or saying that the scores are undeserved?
The Move is basically Ross Perot stealing votes from Kinect (Bush) which will ultimately lead to the Wii (Clinton) winning.
Both. The game reviewers that gave Wii Sports mediocre ratings might very well feel that they're being fair to how they feel about the game, but they aren't the target audience for most of these games. It would be like me reviewing a soccer game - I would probably have drastically less fun than someone who actually cares about soccer would. I expect the same thing with a lot of Kinect games.
Or to put it another way, it's like people being disappointed by something like Brutal Legend because it wasn't a Zelda clone, rather than appreciating it for what it is.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
I'm not worried about the high-70s score for Kinect Sports.
I am concerned about the lack of higher scores for nearly everything else. The Wii had a few more good games for launch than this does. (More diverse games as well.)
Then again, the fact that the Kinect is loaded with potential, but with the caveat that it'll need some clever programming to get past the fiddliness, makes me think that third parties will tread this much like the Wii, only moreso. The big companies, for the most part, are happier to refine and dazzle rather than actually innovate. This thing will pretty much require innovation, which will take more time, money and imagination than most publishers will be willing to put into it.
But I get the feeling that this will sell really well, at least at first. My wife saw a commercial for Dance Central and asked me why we didn't own that yet.
Let's compare:
Noteworthy Wii launch titles:
Excite Truck
Twilight Princess
Red Steel
Super Monkey Ball
Trauma Center: Second Opinion
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Rayman Raving Rabbids
Wii Sports
Noteworthy Kinect launch titles:
Kinect Adventures
Kinect Sports
Kinectimals
Dance Central
A couple exercise games
Maybe something else (don't have reviews of everything yet)
The Wii lineup did look better, but keep in mind that some of those were ports that didn't really take advantage of the Wii's feature in any really meaningful way (like Zelda & Ultimate Alliance).
If you compare Kinect to the Wii Fit board (and they're about the same price if you're buying Kinect with a console bundle instead of standalone), things look much better. The Kinect library already looks much better at launch than the Wii Fit Board library looks now.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games