He is simply saying that motion controls are not really viable for the stuff he is doing, no more than that.
Where did he mention motion controls in your own quote?
He clearly wasn't talking about the motion control in the case of the Wii, it's the technical specifications that tripped him up. They probably could've made some awesome FPSs using the pointer control.
Kinect does not jive with his and id's vision for making games. That's not second guessing, that's basically his own words. It's also common sense. He knows what he's doing.
To be a little honest, it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence when a big name developer and programmer says "We can't make real games with Kinect". Both for the tech, and the developer's ability.
Whether Carmack ends up being a lone crazyman, or the first of many, only time will tell.
Kinect does not jive with his and id's vision for making games. That's not second guessing, that's basically his own words. It's also common sense. He knows what he's doing.
You too. He's not saying 'it doesn't jive with his vision for making games'. When he says 'real games' he's talking about Rage and Doom 4, the games he's implying aren't 'real' are his side projects, like Orcs and Elves and Doom RPG. Hence why he said he's interested in making a XBLA game that utilised Kinect.
Every time a Carmack quote is brought up in this thread, a bunch of people seem to completely miss the point of what he's saying.
Saying it doesn't jive with his vision implies that he doesn't want to make games for it at all though, which is wrong, he's quite obviously interested in making games for it, just not big budget ones (for obvious reasons).
Saying it doesn't jive with his vision implies that he doesn't want to make games for it at all though, which is wrong, he's quite obviously interested in making games for it, just not big budget ones (for obvious reasons).
I meant his vision for the real games, guess I should have clarified. His OVERALL vision clearly encompasses everything, since we all know about Rage on the iphone.
The fact that you can't see the problem with the statement "real games" says a lot. What the fuck is a "real game?" They are fucking games. They either exist or they don't. I have no interest in Kinect but I could easily see why people would take issue with his use of that phrase.
Power Gig: Rise of the SixString developer Seven45 confirmed to Joystiq that it had recently incurred staff layoffs. "With Power Gig already on store shelves, last week Seven45 Studios restructured the company both as a part of the natural cycle of game development and to focus on the development needs of its upcoming games projects," the company said in a statement.
One unidentified Twitter account reporting on the so-called "major" layoffs, claimed Seven45 had been "decimated." A source informs us that approximately 20 to 30 people were let go, which included most of the QA team and a bunch of full-time staff.
Power Gig didn't strike a chord with us or critics at large, averaging a Metacritic score in the mid-30s. Seven45 has yet to reveal specific details about its future projects.
Seven45 statement:
With Power Gig already on store shelves, last week Seven45 Studios restructured the company both as a part of the natural cycle of game development and to focus on the development needs of its upcoming games projects. The studio thanks everyone who contributed to our first game, Power Gig: Rise of the SixString, and we wish the individuals impacted by the re-organization all the best.
How did Power Gig sell, anyway? I'm guessing not great.
I get what he's saying. When I go into Future Shop and see the Ubisoft's "Imagine" shovelware line of DS games, I don't consider those real games. But it's discouraging to see a developer take this line of thinking when it comes to Kinect.
I certainly wouldn't want them to try and shoehorn Kinect functionality into any of their current games, but it would be nice to see try to develop a new "real game" with the Kinect in mind.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited November 2010
His line of thinking is that FPS games won't work out so well on Kinect. Stop investing so much into a single word injected into the full statement; you're reading things out of context.
Anyway, uh... who the hell is Seven45? Are we in "slow-news" mode?
More like schadenfreude mode, since Power Gig sucks.
Anyway, according to Wikipedia, Seven45 is a "sister company" to First Act, a manufacturer of shitty guitars.
The company has received much criticism from music educators who claim that First Act band instruments, targeted at beginning students, are of incredibly low quality, are irreparable, and that replacement parts are difficult to acquire. In 2003, First Act instruments filed a lawsuit against music retailer Brook Mays, who published a list of instrument brand names, including First Act, they perceived to be low quality, calling them "Instrument Shaped Objects." The lawsuit was settled with First Act receiving $16.7 million.
So yeah, I'm guessing that's all she wrote for Seven45.
Christ you are guys are reading a lot into Carmack's words. Making an XBLA game as your first game with an uproven new technology when you aren't even certain what you want to do with it, seems like the right move. Or you know he could throw 50 million dollars at it and hope it turns into an amazing game along the way.
I am all for Carmack playing with the Kinect and seeing what he can make happen. Maybe, just maybe there will be a game for it someday that will entice me to purchase one.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Anyway, uh... who the hell is Seven45? Are we in "slow-news" mode?
More like schadenfreude mode, since Power Gig sucks.
Anyway, according to Wikipedia, Seven45 is a "sister company" to First Act, a manufacturer of shitty guitars.
The company has received much criticism from music educators who claim that First Act band instruments, targeted at beginning students, are of incredibly low quality, are irreparable, and that replacement parts are difficult to acquire. In 2003, First Act instruments filed a lawsuit against music retailer Brook Mays, who published a list of instrument brand names, including First Act, they perceived to be low quality, calling them "Instrument Shaped Objects." The lawsuit was settled with First Act receiving $16.7 million.
So yeah, I'm guessing that's all she wrote for Seven45.
I wish we didn't live in a world where lawsuits weren't handed out to people who receive a negative opinion.
Christ you are guys are reading a lot into Carmack's words. Making an XBLA game as your first game with an uproven new technology when you aren't even certain what you want to do with it, seems like the right move. Or you know he could throw 50 million dollars at it and hope it turns into an amazing game along the way.
I am all for Carmack playing with the Kinect and seeing what he can make happen. Maybe, just maybe there will be a game for it someday that will entice me to purchase one.
Pretty much this. By "real games", he was most likely referring to those big expensive games that id is working on, instead of side projects that might not even have started development yet.
Christ you are guys are reading a lot into Carmack's words. Making an XBLA game as your first game with an uproven new technology when you aren't even certain what you want to do with it, seems like the right move. Or you know he could throw 50 million dollars at it and hope it turns into an amazing game along the way.
I am all for Carmack playing with the Kinect and seeing what he can make happen. Maybe, just maybe there will be a game for it someday that will entice me to purchase one.
Pretty much this. By "real games", he was most likely referring to those big expensive games that id is working on, instead of side projects that might not even have started development yet.
I imagine he's referring to the sort of projects that some people in this thread apparently believe are have doomed the industry into a vicious cycle that it needs to get out of desperately. But that's another topic.
So the CEO of Activision Publishing (different than Bobby Kotick, somehow) waxes on about how awesome CODBLOPS is.
As Treyarch and Activision's Call Of Duty: Black Ops continues to smash entertainment industry records, analysts who cover Activision are scrambling to up their year-end sales predictions. At the publisher, though, things haven’t changed.
Despite the fact that Black Ops sales are tracking 18 percent ahead of where Infinity Ward's Modern Warfare 2 was at this point it its life cycle, Activision is still officially estimating that the game’s performance will fall just short of last year’s sales totals.
“We remain cautiously optimistic,” Eric Hirshberg, CEO of Activision Publishing tells Gamasutra. “It’s great that we’re shattering the five-day record, but we’re still at the very early days of the holiday season. … And we need to keep our foot on the gas.”
The gas, in this case, is a coordinated marketing and public relations plan. But with a franchise that has its roots so squarely in the core community, there’s only so far television commercials can take you. Word of mouth is a critical part of a game’s success – and that’s something Activision has no control over.
But that’s not entirely true for viral campaigns. The company’s TV spot for Black Ops, featuring Kobe Bryant and Jimmy Fallon, took on a life of its own – quickly becoming an Internet sensation and blurring the lines between word of mouth and paid advertising.
“I think we live in a day and age where there’s a blurred line between paid media and earned media,” says Hirshberg. “We live in a world where traditional marketing can become viral marketing – where something as traditional and old school as a television commercial can become viral.”
In addition to setting sales records, Black Ops is also setting new high marks on Microsoft’s Xbox 360 game consoles. By the end of the game’s launch day, more than 2.6 million players had played Black Ops. Cumulatively they had logged more than 5.9 million hours in the multiplayer portion of the game.
As with Modern Warfare 2, Activision plans to support Black Ops with DLC to keep players engaged - and to keep the income flow from the game steady. MW2’s DLC was a strong source of capital for the company. The first add-on, dubbed the “Stimulus Package,” brought in revenue of $37.5 million in the first week. (Roughly $26 million of that went to the publisher, analysts estimate.)
“You’ll see a steady stream of digital content from us, probably more than we’ve ever had before,” says Hirshberg. “I think because gaming is becoming such an online media, there is a real advantage for games that have a built-in community of engaged players. They’re all a part of the narrative and the experience. And to keep that momentum up, all roads go through a great online experience.”
While other publishers, such as THQ, are increasingly using other entertainment mediums, such as books and film, to expand the reach of their big franchises, Call of Duty has remained exclusive to the video game world.
That’s not due to lack of interest by the rest of the entertainment industry. But while Activision has been willing to have conversations about extending the brand, Hirshberg says the company will not rush into any deals.
“There’s obviously a ton of interest, but there’s nothing we have announced or entertained yet,” says Hirshberg. “It’s something we want to be very careful about, because we have an ongoing community relationship with people. … Our goal, first and foremost, is to do the right thing for fans that are engaging with the game and the franchise online. Whether or not a move plays into that remains to be seen.”
Yeah yeah yeah. Boring stuff, right? Well, listen to him attempt to spin Tony Hawk Shred into a success:
While my talk with Hirshberg was mainly concentrated on Black Ops, I couldn’t help but ask about the dismal performance of Tony Hawk Shred in the most recent NPD report. The game, released Oct. 26, sold just 3,000 copies in October, according to Cowen & Co. analyst Doug Creutz.
Critics pointed to the mixed review scores and lack of marketing for the shockingly low numbers, but Hirschberg says the story hasn’t fully played out yet.
“The Ellen DeGeneres Show,” for example, has just named Shred as one of the 12 top gifts for the holiday season, he says. And the target audience for this installment of the franchise is much different than it has been in the past.
“There’s hopefully a method to that madness,” he says. “For the first time we’re targeting that game to kids. It’s a gift-oriented game, but, that said, we need to build awareness for the game still. … I think you’ll hopefully see a bigger ramp-up as we get further into the gift giving season.”
Despite the fact that Black Ops sales are tracking 18 percent ahead of where Infinity Ward's Modern Warfare 2 was at this point it its life cycle, Activision is still officially estimating that the game’s performance will fall just short of last year’s sales totals.
'Neener, neener! See? Infinity Ward sucks so much ass! Losers!
“The Ellen DeGeneres Show,” for example, has just named Shred as one of the 12 top gifts for the holiday season
And, of course, Ellen DeGeneres is the ultimate arbiter of what's hip. I don't know what I'd do without her daily affirmation of my personal choices.
People seem to have this weird belief that women are easily swayed simply because Ellen or Oprah mentions something. Just because the are advertising it doesn't mean women are suddenly going to decide to buy it instead of the cheaper games or peripherals for the holidays.
So the CEO of Activision Publishing (different than Bobby Kotick, somehow) waxes on about how awesome CODBLOPS is.
Activision has like 5 different CEOs at this point or something. Kotick is just the one that doesn't keep his damn mouth closed :P
Activision Blizzard is made up of Activision Publishing (the old Activision plus the old Vivendi Games companies) and Blizzard (just Blizzard) and each has their own CEO.
People seem to have this weird belief that women are easily swayed simply because Ellen or Oprah mentions something. Just because the are advertising it doesn't mean women are suddenly going to decide to buy it instead of the cheaper games or peripherals for the holidays.
I would argue that, in all seriousness, those two have amazing impacts.
That doesn't mean I think Shred will take off (unless it's an actual segment of the show), but the impact those ladies have is....impressive.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I love management bullshit speak like this, so much nonsense.
Those guys must've thrown their arms up in joy when they heard it straight from the horse's (Ellen's) mouth: "Gift-oriented game."
"HOLY SHIT, THERE'S THE ANSWER TO OUR PROBLEMS!" they cried out in unison.
And the danger here is that "gift-oriented game" is going to stick around for the next year or so, until it fails as a tag-line.
You say this as though they didn't pay Ellen for that...
They probably didn't. It's probably something a staffer of Ellen saw, brought it to her attention, and she just thought "Oh isn't that NEAT." It can happen.
I love management bullshit speak like this, so much nonsense.
Those guys must've thrown their arms up in joy when they heard it straight from the horse's (Ellen's) mouth: "Gift-oriented game."
"HOLY SHIT, THERE'S THE ANSWER TO OUR PROBLEMS!" they cried out in unison.
And the danger here is that "gift-oriented game" is going to stick around for the next year or so, until it fails as a tag-line.
You say this as though they didn't pay Ellen for that...
They probably didn't. It's probably something a staffer of Ellen saw, brought it to her attention, and she just thought "Oh isn't that NEAT." It can happen.
Having been watching Ellen's show for like four years now (I worked at a TV station and Ellen was on during my shift) I'm pretty sure they paid her for the mention. She shills the hell out of stuff day in and day out.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I hope she tries out Shred herself and trying to do a kick flip or something, becomes horribly maimed. Or better yet, someone on staff plays the game with her standing nearby with this as the result.
Posts
Where did he mention motion controls in your own quote?
He clearly wasn't talking about the motion control in the case of the Wii, it's the technical specifications that tripped him up. They probably could've made some awesome FPSs using the pointer control.
He didn't say that. Read.
You too. He's not saying 'it doesn't jive with his vision for making games'. When he says 'real games' he's talking about Rage and Doom 4, the games he's implying aren't 'real' are his side projects, like Orcs and Elves and Doom RPG. Hence why he said he's interested in making a XBLA game that utilised Kinect.
Every time a Carmack quote is brought up in this thread, a bunch of people seem to completely miss the point of what he's saying.
id Software's next game confirmed, it'll release on XBLA and feature Kinect support!
(Seriously, John Carmack, if you're reading this, if I had a 360 I'd buy that for 800 points in a heartbeat.)
I meant his vision for the real games, guess I should have clarified. His OVERALL vision clearly encompasses everything, since we all know about Rage on the iphone.
Steam: CavilatRest
Maybe people like you should stop saying shit like that and refer to it as "traditional games" instead? Instead of trying to warp reality.
If you want to talk about 'real games' vs. not real games, Duke Nukem Forever.
Meanwhile:
How did Power Gig sell, anyway? I'm guessing not great.
Also "Seven45" is a pretty dumb name.
What is a "traditional game"? Checkers? Chess? Backgammon?
:rotate:
Oh right, 'traditional video game,' my bad I missed a word. And for the record, Backgammon sucks.
Anyway, uh... who the hell is Seven45? Are we in "slow-news" mode?
I certainly wouldn't want them to try and shoehorn Kinect functionality into any of their current games, but it would be nice to see try to develop a new "real game" with the Kinect in mind.
More like schadenfreude mode, since Power Gig sucks.
Anyway, according to Wikipedia, Seven45 is a "sister company" to First Act, a manufacturer of shitty guitars.
So yeah, I'm guessing that's all she wrote for Seven45.
I am all for Carmack playing with the Kinect and seeing what he can make happen. Maybe, just maybe there will be a game for it someday that will entice me to purchase one.
I wish we didn't live in a world where lawsuits weren't handed out to people who receive a negative opinion.
I thought at least Epic Mickey would have a decent showing, with a handful of kiosks spread out amongst the parks.
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Pretty much this. By "real games", he was most likely referring to those big expensive games that id is working on, instead of side projects that might not even have started development yet.
Twitter
I imagine he's referring to the sort of projects that some people in this thread apparently believe are have doomed the industry into a vicious cycle that it needs to get out of desperately. But that's another topic.
Wiki can help you to understand the legal concept of defamation.
You and me both.
Yeah yeah yeah. Boring stuff, right? Well, listen to him attempt to spin Tony Hawk Shred into a success:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/31619/Interview_Activisions_Hirshberg_On_Black_Ops_Tony_Hawk_Shred_And_More.php
'Neener, neener! See? Infinity Ward sucks so much ass! Losers!
And, of course, Ellen DeGeneres is the ultimate arbiter of what's hip. I don't know what I'd do without her daily affirmation of my personal choices.
Activision has like 5 different CEOs at this point or something. Kotick is just the one that doesn't keep his damn mouth closed :P
I love management bullshit speak like this, so much nonsense.
Activision Blizzard is made up of Activision Publishing (the old Activision plus the old Vivendi Games companies) and Blizzard (just Blizzard) and each has their own CEO.
I would argue that, in all seriousness, those two have amazing impacts.
That doesn't mean I think Shred will take off (unless it's an actual segment of the show), but the impact those ladies have is....impressive.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Those guys must've thrown their arms up in joy when they heard it straight from the horse's (Ellen's) mouth: "Gift-oriented game."
"HOLY SHIT, THERE'S THE ANSWER TO OUR PROBLEMS!" they cried out in unison.
And the danger here is that "gift-oriented game" is going to stick around for the next year or so, until it fails as a tag-line.
You say this as though they didn't pay Ellen for that...
They probably didn't. It's probably something a staffer of Ellen saw, brought it to her attention, and she just thought "Oh isn't that NEAT." It can happen.
Having been watching Ellen's show for like four years now (I worked at a TV station and Ellen was on during my shift) I'm pretty sure they paid her for the mention. She shills the hell out of stuff day in and day out.
Well so much for my idea.