Protoss always whine "imba, imba world, we have no detection except observers imba." make a forge and a cannon and get +1 ground weapons. Suddenly, you can shoot that banshee down faster, go a non robo tech path and get early upgrades!
And don't bitch about static defense we have to go engineering bay for our non ground attacking static defense so you can plop down a goddamn forge in the first 6 minutes. :P
so big, so much potential for fun awesome games, sc2 maps are effing rubbish
That map looks like complete garbage.
Everybody has a small choke on their natural except 10 o'clock who's the size of texas. 2 & 8 o'clock can both protect their nat with siege from the high ground, while 10 & 4 are fucked. And assuming you don't get cross-map spawns, you have some asymmetric goddamn battles going on.
I much prefer SC2 maps to this kind of thing.
Edit: Don't get me wrong, I love the size. But I'd hate to have the difference between winning and losing be that my terran opponent spawned at the 10 instead of the 8.
Several of the SC2 maps are not symmetric, btw. The sizes of the mains on Scrap Station, for instance, are different (same with Xel'Naga Caverns too, I think), and it changes the number of creep tumours necessary to go from main->natural.
Then you'd have mobile detection, albeit fragile, without any gas spent to reach the required tech.
I don't think it is such a simple fix.
Yeah, a race having automatic detection without any gas spent would be freaking imbalanced. They'd never have to worry about cloaked units at all basically rending them moot. But I'm sure that'd never happen...
Then you'd have mobile detection, albeit fragile, without any gas spent to reach the required tech.
I don't think it is such a simple fix.
Yeah, a race having automatic detection without any gas spent would be freaking imbalanced. They'd never have to worry about cloaked units at all basically rending them moot. But I'm sure that'd never happen...
obviously talking about mobile detection since both toss and terran can get static detection without minerals
edit - and terran get scan
edit2 - which I guess is mobile so now I see your point
A scan isn't free it cost energy and basically means you're out 340 minerals. If you want to spend 340 minerals on Observes instead of 75/100 I'm sure they'd be happy to make it that way. :P
I prefer 2 player maps actually but it'd be nice to see this kind of map on ladder. Given that Blizzard has said they made smaller maps to cater to newer players, maybe they could put some macro maps in the diamond pool specifically?
Then you'd have mobile detection, albeit fragile, without any gas spent to reach the required tech.
I don't think it is such a simple fix.
Yeah, a race having automatic detection without any gas spent would be freaking imbalanced. They'd never have to worry about cloaked units at all basically rending them moot. But I'm sure that'd never happen...
A scan is one use, this theoretical observer could be used over and over.
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
GSL has begun!
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
well something needs to be done to detach the mandatory unit (observer) from one of three main tech paths for lategame protoss (Colossi, Air, Templar) because 90% of the time it is easier to go Colossi than it is to go any of the other three simply due to needing observers anyway.
well something needs to be done to detach the mandatory unit (observer) from one of three main tech paths for lategame protoss (Colossi, Air, Templar) because 90% of the time it is easier to go Colossi than it is to go any of the other three simply due to needing observers anyway.
I agree with this.
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
well something needs to be done to detach the mandatory unit (observer) from one of three main tech paths for lategame protoss (Colossi, Air, Templar) because 90% of the time it is easier to go Colossi than it is to go any of the other three simply due to needing observers anyway.
Dhal, what do you need the observers for?
Cloaked banshees? 1 cannon can protect your mineral line
DTs? Yes, but you can have a cannon at your wall and not let them in (and not let them proxy into your base)
Burrowed roaches..?
EDIT: I play Protoss and I too would love it if I didn't have to get a robo for mobile detection too, just fyi
It'll be ItR v Boxer, guarantee it. Foxer has played NO Terrans during this tournament and ItR is an amazing TvT player.
is ItR Hopetorture?
I want to see more protoss in the finals of these. I just picked up playing SC2 a couple weeks ago, and protoss is my favorite race (pew pew) With a couple friends I'm in silver/gold in 2v2 and 3v3 respectively, but i don't feel confident enough to start playing 1v1 yet.
Especially when I just learned about cannon rushes. (Oh that's funny, that probe is building a- OHMYGOD)
well something needs to be done to detach the mandatory unit (observer) from one of three main tech paths for lategame protoss (Colossi, Air, Templar) because 90% of the time it is easier to go Colossi than it is to go any of the other three simply due to needing observers anyway.
Dhal, what do you need the observers for?
Cloaked banshees? 1 cannon can protect your mineral line
DTs? Yes, but you can have a cannon at your wall and not let them in (and not let them proxy into your base)
Burrowed roaches..?
EDIT: I play Protoss and I too would love it if I didn't have to get a robo for mobile detection too, just fyi
Sometimes you just can't get into your opponent's base to scout. Early game you can almost always get a probe in just as easily but sometimes you just need that observer.
Basically in any game that goes longer than 10-15 minutes you're going to need an observer, which pushes you strongly into the Colossi tech path.
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TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
Sometimes you just can't get into your opponent's base to scout. Early game you can almost always get a probe in just as easily but sometimes you just need that observer.
Basically in any game that goes longer than 10-15 minutes you're going to need an observer, which pushes you strongly into the Colossi tech path.
Phoenix or Hallucinated Phoenix are both amazing scouts
Also, I guess the players are harrassing the Korean Casters to hurry and start, gonna be so awesome
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
well something needs to be done to detach the mandatory unit (observer) from one of three main tech paths for lategame protoss (Colossi, Air, Templar) because 90% of the time it is easier to go Colossi than it is to go any of the other three simply due to needing observers anyway.
Dhal, what do you need the observers for?
Cloaked banshees? 1 cannon can protect your mineral line
DTs? Yes, but you can have a cannon at your wall and not let them in (and not let them proxy into your base)
Burrowed roaches..?
EDIT: I play Protoss and I too would love it if I didn't have to get a robo for mobile detection too, just fyi
Sometimes you just can't get into your opponent's base to scout. Early game you can almost always get a probe in just as easily but sometimes you just need that observer.
Basically in any game that goes longer than 10-15 minutes you're going to need an observer, which pushes you strongly into the Colossi tech path.
There are other ways of scouting a base that don't involve a robo;
Stargate -> Pheonix (into Void Rays/Mothership..?)
Sentry -> Hallucinate (which can lead to blink stalker shenanigans)
Sounds to me like you're too hinged on being able to always see what the other person is doing, with them being unable to stop you without detection of their own..
Calling it now, round 7 is a draw, base race into everyone loses every SCV and someone floats a barracks to the corner of the map, no vikings left in play.
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
Deb-ris.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Cannons aren't a great solution for Banshees as they can simply fly around and attack something outside of Cannon vision. I think you need 2 Cannons to protect an entire mineral line (I've been meaning to test this), and I'm not sure that also protects the Assimilators. Then he can just kill Pylons or outlying production buildings, and it'll be almost impossible for you to expand. If he's going 2port Banshee I don't see it being held off with Cannons.
He had a massive ground army of thor/marauder, I had a few vikings and a big bioball, he floats his CC off to the corner. if I hadn't had those vikings it would've been a draw.
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And don't bitch about static defense we have to go engineering bay for our non ground attacking static defense so you can plop down a goddamn forge in the first 6 minutes. :P
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He certainly is a busy guy, I wanna see him kung fu incontrol at Dallas
look at it!
so big, so much potential for fun awesome games, sc2 maps are effing rubbish
several of the sc2 iCCup maps are great
That map looks like complete garbage.
Everybody has a small choke on their natural except 10 o'clock who's the size of texas. 2 & 8 o'clock can both protect their nat with siege from the high ground, while 10 & 4 are fucked. And assuming you don't get cross-map spawns, you have some asymmetric goddamn battles going on.
I much prefer SC2 maps to this kind of thing.
Edit: Don't get me wrong, I love the size. But I'd hate to have the difference between winning and losing be that my terran opponent spawned at the 10 instead of the 8.
Several of the SC2 maps are not symmetric, btw. The sizes of the mains on Scrap Station, for instance, are different (same with Xel'Naga Caverns too, I think), and it changes the number of creep tumours necessary to go from main->natural.
edit: Fighting Spirit matchup stats:
make the observer come out of the Nexus after cybernetics core, and make a researchable permanent invis at the robotics bay. (bay, not facility)
I don't think it is such a simple fix.
Yeah, a race having automatic detection without any gas spent would be freaking imbalanced. They'd never have to worry about cloaked units at all basically rending them moot. But I'm sure that'd never happen...
obviously talking about mobile detection since both toss and terran can get static detection without minerals
edit - and terran get scan
edit2 - which I guess is mobile so now I see your point
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not that I'd be unhappy with either of them really
iccup enigma
I prefer 2 player maps actually but it'd be nice to see this kind of map on ladder. Given that Blizzard has said they made smaller maps to cater to newer players, maybe they could put some macro maps in the diamond pool specifically?
A scan is one use, this theoretical observer could be used over and over.
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It'll be HopeTorture v Boxer, guarantee it. Foxer has played NO Terrans during this tournament and HopeTorture is an amazing TvT player.
I am rooting for BoxeR here but I can see this match going either way.
I agree with this.
Dhal, what do you need the observers for?
Cloaked banshees? 1 cannon can protect your mineral line
DTs? Yes, but you can have a cannon at your wall and not let them in (and not let them proxy into your base)
Burrowed roaches..?
EDIT: I play Protoss and I too would love it if I didn't have to get a robo for mobile detection too, just fyi
is ItR Hopetorture?
I want to see more protoss in the finals of these. I just picked up playing SC2 a couple weeks ago, and protoss is my favorite race (pew pew) With a couple friends I'm in silver/gold in 2v2 and 3v3 respectively, but i don't feel confident enough to start playing 1v1 yet.
Especially when I just learned about cannon rushes. (Oh that's funny, that probe is building a- OHMYGOD)
Sometimes you just can't get into your opponent's base to scout. Early game you can almost always get a probe in just as easily but sometimes you just need that observer.
Basically in any game that goes longer than 10-15 minutes you're going to need an observer, which pushes you strongly into the Colossi tech path.
Phoenix or Hallucinated Phoenix are both amazing scouts
Also, I guess the players are harrassing the Korean Casters to hurry and start, gonna be so awesome
There are other ways of scouting a base that don't involve a robo;
Stargate -> Pheonix (into Void Rays/Mothership..?)
Sentry -> Hallucinate (which can lead to blink stalker shenanigans)
Sounds to me like you're too hinged on being able to always see what the other person is doing, with them being unable to stop you without detection of their own..
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I've seen the name for Metal and picture for Delta, it seems to alternate which one they ACTUALLY mean.
He had a massive ground army of thor/marauder, I had a few vikings and a big bioball, he floats his CC off to the corner. if I hadn't had those vikings it would've been a draw.
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