Why did they pick and Excelsior anyway? I never liked that ship. Should have gone with an Ambassador if they wanted to pimp and older ship up. Or just made a fancy skin for another ship, I don't know, anything but the Excelsior.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited December 2010
When you consider that they keep adding ships it becomes less of a concern that favorite ship X isn't in the game.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Something I just thought of. They should add the ability to take an existing ship and pay some large some of EC or merits to allow a player to rearrange the BO slots on the ship. This wouldn't be to over powering because a guy with five tac BOs won't have any hull or shield repair skills.
Basically I just want Beam Fire at Will III on my Galaxy.
The devs won't do it because of PvP (or at least that'll be the stated reason). It'd be tough to balance anyway, and would violate the concept of evaluating your foes based on what you can see of them. The latter is the (stated) reason they disabled the weapons-tinting command.
If you want Fire at Will 3 on a cruiser, unfortunately, you'll have to get an Excelsior.
Yea...I get that. It would be awesome if you could customize your ship more though, stat and appearance wise since it is 'you' for most of the game.
Although to be fair I don't think I've ever seen any fluff that indicates Starfleet ships are ever customized unless they are cut off from the Federation for some reason.
But I don't care, I still want to adjust the appearance and fx locations of my phaser banks and stuff like that.
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
Eh I'm fine with the phasers. They have to come from phaser emitters anyway and I'd prefer there not being hot pink beams flying around. As for the Excelsior vs Ambassador, they stated the the Ambassador is going to definitely be one of the next ships. The Excelsior class is actually one of the most seen ships in the Trek Universe as it is the only ship to have been in both the movies, TNG, DS9, and Voyager. It was the go to "hey there's another Starfleet ship!" in TNG and showed up in a shit ton of DS9 episodes.
The Ambassador on the other hand was the Enterprise-C in one episode and as other random ships only three other times.
Captain ElevenThe last card is a kronkRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
I actually really like the Excelsior design (especially the refit). I prefer it to the Galaxy, in fact, but the Sovereign is the one I can't wait to get.
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
I actually really like the Excelsior design (especially the refit). I prefer it to the Galaxy, in fact, but the Sovereign is the one I can't wait to get.
I don't see that many stock Sovereigns flying around as much. I see a lot of Excelsiors, which I suppose is alright since according to the fluff, Starfleet built a crapton of them.
I think everyone should be outraged that my aesthetic preferences are not the #1 concern of the game developers.
Fluff wise, the only thing that bugs be about having the Excelsior refit is it is too high a tier. I just can't see a 100 year old Excelsior frame being able to go toe to toe with a Sovereign, no matter how much you sex it up.
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
I think everyone should be outraged that my aesthetic preferences are not the #1 concern of the game developers.
Fluff wise, the only thing that bugs be about having the Excelsior refit is it is too high a tier. I just can't see a 100 year old Excelsior frame being able to go toe to toe with a Sovereign, no matter how much you sex it up.
A Hull in a Hull. You can rip the entire innards out and replace them and it would still take less resources than building a whole new ship of comparable mass from scratch.
Especially since Starfleet ships are specifically designed to be upgraded for a long time.I think the TNG tech manual says something about the Galaxy class's space frame being designed to last for over a century.
I think everyone should be outraged that my aesthetic preferences are not the #1 concern of the game developers.
Fluff wise, the only thing that bugs be about having the Excelsior refit is it is too high a tier. I just can't see a 100 year old Excelsior frame being able to go toe to toe with a Sovereign, no matter how much you sex it up.
A Hull in a Hull. You can rip the entire innards out and replace them and it would still take less resources than building a whole new ship of comparable mass from scratch.
Especially since Starfleet ships are specifically designed to be upgraded for a long time.I think the TNG tech manual says something about the Galaxy class's space frame being designed to last for over a century.
If a hull is a hull then there would only be three types of ships: small, medium and large, and they would never change. They would just be round balls with a hole for a deflector dish and some warp pylons.
Plus, if starship frames are anything like airplane frames, in-service does not mean top of the line. We have airplanes with frames that are 50+ years old, but no-one thinks they are equal to a shiny new F-35.
To sum up: in 'reality' there must be something better about new frames compared to old frames, otherwise Utopia Planitia would just be churning out the same old designs.
Fun in that's almost what happens especially with Aide Planets.
Planet: "We are in desperate need for communication supplies so that we can..."
Me: "Comms? Got it" Close window, replicate communication supplies "Here they are."
Planet: "Oh, hey, that was great. Here's a mk xi astrometrics console."
Me: "Uh, ok. Just like the last six. What does that stat even do?"
Planet: "So, uh... about those comms?"
Me: "Oh, I fed them back into the replicator after I showed them to you."
Planet: "But we gave you the reward! We desperately need those -"
Me: "Set course and engage."
Fixed for bug abusing goodness.
I'd just like to toss out that from canon, the Dominon War era Excelsiors were easily more than a match for a Galaxy class ship. Smaller but faster, with generally similar phaser armament (the Dominion War era Galaxy did have better rear phaser coverage after they added phaser strips to the tops of both nacelles), more torpedo launchers and quantum torpedoes (which is the real kicker - in canon quantum torpedoes were immensely more powerful than photons and could be fired faster). The only real advantage the Galaxy class had at that time was that most of the ones in service were more than half empty starframes. They'd get holes blasted clear through the saucer without losing any critical systems.
Of course, the Sovereign is a different matter. For all its size, the Galaxy class was the bastard son of Starfleet combat vessels. Even the intrepid class outgunned it, and it was a quarter the size.
Anyway, for the most part, Utopia Planitia does pretty much just keep cranking out the old designs. The majority of the ships at Wolf 359 used TOS/TMP era designs, and there were even similar era ships alongside the Prometheus class ships at the end of Voyager. There were more Miranda class ships in the Dominion War than every other class combined except the Peregrine class fighter, and the Excelsior was the most common class in the remainder. They've been using duranium for hulls since TNG, the bulk of hull strength comes from energy fields instead of metallurgy, making it very upgradeable. Even the ablative armor that more advanced classes carried was just a strap on upgrade. The Defiant was refitted with it literally between episodes.
Canonically, there were only 12 Galaxy class ships, only 6 of which were fully equipped, out of several thousand ships in Starfleet. The Federation managed to maintain the tactical and technological edge in the Alpha Quadrant for a long time with century old hulls, it's not a particular surprise that they've continued to do so.
Sigh, I always get depressed in canon discussions anyway, since the Trek universe makes a lot more sense in my fantasy land than it does on the screen. In reality, 'Starfleet' uses the models it has left over from the last series run, regardless of whether or not it makes sense, then we fans try to justify all the weirdness to keep our suspension of disbelief alive.
Easier for me to keep that alive if I just write off the Excelsior being powerful as a fluff mistake than deal with the host of fluff nightmares that come around by going by episode canon :P
Utopia Planitia: Is there anything in the fluff that says it is still producing those old designs though, or is it just they are large production runs still being used? I don't think I've ever seen/read that things like Miranda/Excelsior class ships are still being produced, just refitted.
Maybe Starfleet had an engineering outsourcing crises post-Scotty, and that explains why all the hulls since that era have only been tiny production runs of ships that seem to suck?
Edit: I bet they outsourced to Ferenginar!
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
The Galaxy was never really designed to be a full on warship and only carried so many weapons so that it could operate on deep space exploration missions for prolonged periods. Hence the families and lots of recreational facilities.
I believe in canon, the USS Yamato and USS Odyssey are the only two Galaxy class ships to ever be destroyed, the first to an alien computer virus and the second to a kamikaze attack by the Jem'hadar.
The only thing I got about Utopia Plantia is a screen capture from an episode showing an Excelsior being worked on along side Akiras and Sabers. Most probably being refitted.
Really though it doesn't matter and serves to lets us fly around pretty much any ship we like in the game.
Fun Fact of the Day. Until the advent of computer generated ships in Star Trek, every time an Excelsior class was show on the screen it was literally the original USS Excelsior model built for Star Trek III, just with slight modifications (lakota refit) and a name change.
I know if would cause problems, but it would be neat if you could upgrade your own ships. For example, I'm very fond of the canon Akira design and it seems a shame to drop them when you hit Captain.
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
I know if would cause problems, but it would be neat if you could upgrade your own ships. For example, I'm very fond of the canon Akira design and it seems a shame to drop them when you hit Captain.
You know, the game started pretty lame but I have to hand it to Cryptic, after they bought it they are really improving the game at a rapid pace. I don't think I've ever seen an MMO with such an aggressive content release schedule.
On the other hand I've never seen an MMO go live with such sparse content so I guess it balances
I'm just glad I didn't sub at release. I think getting into it now was just about right. Well...I think it might have been better if I'd waited until they re-did ground combat, but oh well.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited December 2010
Didn't need to recycle the commodities. The really expensive ones somehow stayed in my inventory after completing the 'exchange'. I just kept them for the next aid mission and then kept them again for the one after that. I still have them.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Utopia Planitia: Is there anything in the fluff that says it is still producing those old designs though, or is it just they are large production runs still being used? I don't think I've ever seen/read that things like Miranda/Excelsior class ships are still being produced, just refitted.
Registry numbers. There were Miranda and Excelsior class ships with registry numbers as high as the 75000's, putting them far after the original six Galaxy class ships, and even after some Defiant class ships. Ships with registry numbers under 75k were said to be built after the Dominion War started, putting many Miranda and Excelsior class ships built during the War. Unless they had several thousand surplus starframes sitting around, they were in active production.
Maybe Starfleet had an engineering outsourcing crises post-Scotty, and that explains why all the hulls since that era have only been tiny production runs of ships that seem to suck?
Edit: I bet they outsourced to Ferenginar!
Well, in the TOS era, the bulk of Starfleet was even older - not as old as the NX-01, but not much newer, either. There were only about a dozen Constitution class ships in the initial production run (though several ships named in the series weren't in the original run, like the Defiant, so more were being built), and even less Miranda class ships. Both classes (especially the Miranda) were mass produced many years later, though.
And the Excelsior class may be almost as old, but the NCC-2000 Excelsior itself spent a long time in mothballs after the transwarp experiment "failed." The Repulse was the second of the class, registry number was 2544. The next one that's been seen on screen is NCC-14598, and there were a number in the 14-18000's, suggesting ongoing production decades after the NCC-2000. Then there was another batch in the 40000's, and a few isolated ones even higher than that.
Starfleet builds ships to last. A big ship is meant to stay in service for upwards of 100 years with multiple major refits (Compare the motion picture Connie or the Excalibur class with the TOS connie, for example - or the Galaxy-X, which was still the 1701-D, just heavily upgraded), and classes are meant to be in service as much as 200 - the Prometheus class was still in use in the 2700's at Procyon V, and there was a Miranda class near the end of Voyager that had a later registry number than at least one Prometheus class ship, so it looks like the tried and true workhorse was still in production then, even though five generations of Starship design had come after it.
Oddly, the one major class that sorta disappeared was the Ambassador class. Only a few ever appeared on screen, and their registry numbers were all within a span of 500. It was basically Galaxy-lite, with the same shortcomings as a warship - science first, combat second. At some point that rule seemed to become the accepted standard for Star Trek, but I'm not sure exactly when. The Constitution and Excelsior were both warships with scientific capabilities, not the other way around like the Galaxy, and the Miranda was styled as a straight up warship in ST2, smaller than the Enterprise but still better armed and armored.
I am reasonably certain that I've seen it stated in STO that Mirandas were still in production, possibly in the little blurb they have on it in the ship purchase area.
We don't have to do them all in one day, but we can certainly should be gunning to run through the STFs... I'd like to start working on that.
Also, I've bought 5 tabs in the Klingon bank, we need another 3 million EC to buy the last two tabs. I've rejiggered the ranking system to be similar to the Fed side for bank tab access.
We do not have a Lieutenant tab, the Klingons start Lt6, so I see no point to have the tab for 4 or 5 levels. Once we get all 8 tabs I am going to dedicate the 8th tab to pure crafting supplies, so schematics and resources.
I actually like the hull effect on the Aegis set, but the weird effects around the impulse engines and deflector dish are a bit unsightly. On an advanced escort it's a pretty subtle effect, not as striking as the borg parts by a longshot. The bonuses feel a bit better than the borg ones in combat, too - I was going toe to toe with a cube in my escort on advanced and actually pulling it off.
Though, if the assimilated tractor beam is working as intended (God I can't imagine that being the case) absolutely nothing will beat somebody with the full borg set.
Wow, the bump from LC to Commander is pretty dramatic isn't it? I'm all badass now.
Commander to captain is pretty dramatic, too. By the time you hit the later commander content, that Akira class will be showing it's age, then you get a Defiant and you're badass again.
Captain to Admiral didn't feel as big for me, though. You don't get any more front weapons, three of your current officer slots are already the highest they're going to rank up, and your fifth slot is just an ensign.
The commander version of the Excelsior's kinda meh. It's pretty much the same as a standard heavy cruiser (1 degree per second better turn rate) with three transwarp options. It doesn't have the extra tac skills like the admiral version.
I like that fire at will doesn't deplete my energy though. Plus, it is way cooler
Oh hells yes. Yesterday I did some Klingon mission replay of an old level. I flew my Galaxy into the middle of the enemy, let them mob me then hit fire at will. Everything was blowing up. It was like a Death Blossom.
The commander version of the Excelsior's kinda meh. It's pretty much the same as a standard heavy cruiser (1 degree per second better turn rate) with three transwarp options. It doesn't have the extra tac skills like the admiral version.
My wife is going to her mother's tomorrow, so I've made it clear that all day tomorrow I will be playing this.
With that in mind, my goals at this point at to either participate in STFs on my feddies, any of them, to get the set pieces. Or I'm going to grind the hell out of crafting on my Klink tactical officer.
If anyone wants to join me, I'll be online starting now, and most of tomorrow.
The sets aren't live until probably next Thursday, unfortunately. When I'm on I wouldn't mind helping you grind sorties or clusters to grind up your crafting. The crafting set is bind on equip, at least on tribble, so it's in a fleet's best interest to pile as much crafting effort onto one character initially. Plus it's pretty sweet powerleveling.
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
Okay. Infected if fucking broken now. We get to the end and Rebbecca kills us within seconds through the alcove. Also the rest of the Borg seem way harder now.
That said, it would be in our best interest to get crafting stuff to make the Aegis parts since the Borg parts look to be impossible to get till the ground combat redo.
Posts
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Yea...I get that. It would be awesome if you could customize your ship more though, stat and appearance wise since it is 'you' for most of the game.
Although to be fair I don't think I've ever seen any fluff that indicates Starfleet ships are ever customized unless they are cut off from the Federation for some reason.
But I don't care, I still want to adjust the appearance and fx locations of my phaser banks and stuff like that.
The Ambassador on the other hand was the Enterprise-C in one episode and as other random ships only three other times.
I still want an Ambassador class very much.
I don't see that many stock Sovereigns flying around as much. I see a lot of Excelsiors, which I suppose is alright since according to the fluff, Starfleet built a crapton of them.
Fluff wise, the only thing that bugs be about having the Excelsior refit is it is too high a tier. I just can't see a 100 year old Excelsior frame being able to go toe to toe with a Sovereign, no matter how much you sex it up.
A Hull in a Hull. You can rip the entire innards out and replace them and it would still take less resources than building a whole new ship of comparable mass from scratch.
Especially since Starfleet ships are specifically designed to be upgraded for a long time.I think the TNG tech manual says something about the Galaxy class's space frame being designed to last for over a century.
If a hull is a hull then there would only be three types of ships: small, medium and large, and they would never change. They would just be round balls with a hole for a deflector dish and some warp pylons.
Plus, if starship frames are anything like airplane frames, in-service does not mean top of the line. We have airplanes with frames that are 50+ years old, but no-one thinks they are equal to a shiny new F-35.
To sum up: in 'reality' there must be something better about new frames compared to old frames, otherwise Utopia Planitia would just be churning out the same old designs.
It is a smaller ship too.
Fixed for bug abusing goodness.
I'd just like to toss out that from canon, the Dominon War era Excelsiors were easily more than a match for a Galaxy class ship. Smaller but faster, with generally similar phaser armament (the Dominion War era Galaxy did have better rear phaser coverage after they added phaser strips to the tops of both nacelles), more torpedo launchers and quantum torpedoes (which is the real kicker - in canon quantum torpedoes were immensely more powerful than photons and could be fired faster). The only real advantage the Galaxy class had at that time was that most of the ones in service were more than half empty starframes. They'd get holes blasted clear through the saucer without losing any critical systems.
Of course, the Sovereign is a different matter. For all its size, the Galaxy class was the bastard son of Starfleet combat vessels. Even the intrepid class outgunned it, and it was a quarter the size.
Anyway, for the most part, Utopia Planitia does pretty much just keep cranking out the old designs. The majority of the ships at Wolf 359 used TOS/TMP era designs, and there were even similar era ships alongside the Prometheus class ships at the end of Voyager. There were more Miranda class ships in the Dominion War than every other class combined except the Peregrine class fighter, and the Excelsior was the most common class in the remainder. They've been using duranium for hulls since TNG, the bulk of hull strength comes from energy fields instead of metallurgy, making it very upgradeable. Even the ablative armor that more advanced classes carried was just a strap on upgrade. The Defiant was refitted with it literally between episodes.
Canonically, there were only 12 Galaxy class ships, only 6 of which were fully equipped, out of several thousand ships in Starfleet. The Federation managed to maintain the tactical and technological edge in the Alpha Quadrant for a long time with century old hulls, it's not a particular surprise that they've continued to do so.
Easier for me to keep that alive if I just write off the Excelsior being powerful as a fluff mistake than deal with the host of fluff nightmares that come around by going by episode canon :P
Utopia Planitia: Is there anything in the fluff that says it is still producing those old designs though, or is it just they are large production runs still being used? I don't think I've ever seen/read that things like Miranda/Excelsior class ships are still being produced, just refitted.
Maybe Starfleet had an engineering outsourcing crises post-Scotty, and that explains why all the hulls since that era have only been tiny production runs of ships that seem to suck?
Edit: I bet they outsourced to Ferenginar!
I believe in canon, the USS Yamato and USS Odyssey are the only two Galaxy class ships to ever be destroyed, the first to an alien computer virus and the second to a kamikaze attack by the Jem'hadar.
The only thing I got about Utopia Plantia is a screen capture from an episode showing an Excelsior being worked on along side Akiras and Sabers. Most probably being refitted.
Really though it doesn't matter and serves to lets us fly around pretty much any ship we like in the game.
Fun Fact of the Day. Until the advent of computer generated ships in Star Trek, every time an Excelsior class was show on the screen it was literally the original USS Excelsior model built for Star Trek III, just with slight modifications (lakota refit) and a name change.
I believe they are working on a refit Akira.
You know, the game started pretty lame but I have to hand it to Cryptic, after they bought it they are really improving the game at a rapid pace. I don't think I've ever seen an MMO with such an aggressive content release schedule.
On the other hand I've never seen an MMO go live with such sparse content so I guess it balances
I'm just glad I didn't sub at release. I think getting into it now was just about right. Well...I think it might have been better if I'd waited until they re-did ground combat, but oh well.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Registry numbers. There were Miranda and Excelsior class ships with registry numbers as high as the 75000's, putting them far after the original six Galaxy class ships, and even after some Defiant class ships. Ships with registry numbers under 75k were said to be built after the Dominion War started, putting many Miranda and Excelsior class ships built during the War. Unless they had several thousand surplus starframes sitting around, they were in active production.
Well, in the TOS era, the bulk of Starfleet was even older - not as old as the NX-01, but not much newer, either. There were only about a dozen Constitution class ships in the initial production run (though several ships named in the series weren't in the original run, like the Defiant, so more were being built), and even less Miranda class ships. Both classes (especially the Miranda) were mass produced many years later, though.
And the Excelsior class may be almost as old, but the NCC-2000 Excelsior itself spent a long time in mothballs after the transwarp experiment "failed." The Repulse was the second of the class, registry number was 2544. The next one that's been seen on screen is NCC-14598, and there were a number in the 14-18000's, suggesting ongoing production decades after the NCC-2000. Then there was another batch in the 40000's, and a few isolated ones even higher than that.
Starfleet builds ships to last. A big ship is meant to stay in service for upwards of 100 years with multiple major refits (Compare the motion picture Connie or the Excalibur class with the TOS connie, for example - or the Galaxy-X, which was still the 1701-D, just heavily upgraded), and classes are meant to be in service as much as 200 - the Prometheus class was still in use in the 2700's at Procyon V, and there was a Miranda class near the end of Voyager that had a later registry number than at least one Prometheus class ship, so it looks like the tried and true workhorse was still in production then, even though five generations of Starship design had come after it.
Oddly, the one major class that sorta disappeared was the Ambassador class. Only a few ever appeared on screen, and their registry numbers were all within a span of 500. It was basically Galaxy-lite, with the same shortcomings as a warship - science first, combat second. At some point that rule seemed to become the accepted standard for Star Trek, but I'm not sure exactly when. The Constitution and Excelsior were both warships with scientific capabilities, not the other way around like the Galaxy, and the Miranda was styled as a straight up warship in ST2, smaller than the Enterprise but still better armed and armored.
A second set done by achieving the highest level of crafting, the Aegis set.
Both sets are available for free on Tribble from two consoles in the ESD shipyard.
Spork, I mean to meet you, but the game crashed. Sorry.
In other news, I'm going to be crafting my ass off now to get the Aegis set, cause it makes your ship tough as nails.
Movie Collection
Foody Things
Holy shit! Sony's new techno toy!
Wii Friend code: 1445 3205 3057 5295
Also, I've bought 5 tabs in the Klingon bank, we need another 3 million EC to buy the last two tabs. I've rejiggered the ranking system to be similar to the Fed side for bank tab access.
We do not have a Lieutenant tab, the Klingons start Lt6, so I see no point to have the tab for 4 or 5 levels. Once we get all 8 tabs I am going to dedicate the 8th tab to pure crafting supplies, so schematics and resources.
Movie Collection
Foody Things
Holy shit! Sony's new techno toy!
Wii Friend code: 1445 3205 3057 5295
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Wish I could get on right now, what exactly does the Aegis set cover? Does it alter your ship's appearance the way the borg set does?
It kinda makes the ships look like something in TRON.
You can turn the graphical effects of those and the borg stuff off if you just want the stat boosts.
Though, if the assimilated tractor beam is working as intended (God I can't imagine that being the case) absolutely nothing will beat somebody with the full borg set.
Edit: Screenshots:
Normal
Commander to captain is pretty dramatic, too. By the time you hit the later commander content, that Akira class will be showing it's age, then you get a Defiant and you're badass again.
Captain to Admiral didn't feel as big for me, though. You don't get any more front weapons, three of your current officer slots are already the highest they're going to rank up, and your fifth slot is just an ensign.
Oh dear god is he ever. So so so so much fun. This is the guy I'll level, I can't wait for my galaxy though 10 more levels...
Edit: Oh shit you can get the Excelsior at commander, to bad I spent all my money making my escort bad ass.
Oh hells yes. Yesterday I did some Klingon mission replay of an old level. I flew my Galaxy into the middle of the enemy, let them mob me then hit fire at will. Everything was blowing up. It was like a Death Blossom.
Ah k.
Still looks ballin
With that in mind, my goals at this point at to either participate in STFs on my feddies, any of them, to get the set pieces. Or I'm going to grind the hell out of crafting on my Klink tactical officer.
If anyone wants to join me, I'll be online starting now, and most of tomorrow.
Movie Collection
Foody Things
Holy shit! Sony's new techno toy!
Wii Friend code: 1445 3205 3057 5295
That said, it would be in our best interest to get crafting stuff to make the Aegis parts since the Borg parts look to be impossible to get till the ground combat redo.