I'm still surprised no one uses the "hotkey eggs" method for adding units to control groups. I'm pretty sure it's the only reason I managed to get into diamond so fast with relatively low apm.
Oh god the awful "How did I throw that away?" into "How did I not get crushed?" vs the same guy twice in a row on ladder. He really should've beaten me the second game. I was on one base vs 2, then 2 vs 3. Then almost 2 vs 4.
I'm still surprised no one uses the "hotkey eggs" method for adding units to control groups. I'm pretty sure it's the only reason I managed to get into diamond so fast with relatively low apm.
he misuses the term "metagame," provides inaccurate advice about saturation (over 2 is diminishing returns; over 3 is basically zero return), and has some underdeveloped advice about expanding (he says to start the extractors and queen when the hatchery pops; doing so in advance is sometimes better). He also suggests an unnecessary action (you don't need to have a group selected to use shift+# to add units to it).
I'm sure a lot of his advice is helpful to some people though, so that's cool.
An idea occurs, make a warp prism and go about your business normally, but sneak a probe off somewhere it won't be scouted (say a cliff on an expansion on the other side of the map) and warp in your *hidden tech here*
An idea occurs, make a warp prism and go about your business normally, but sneak a probe off somewhere it won't be scouted (say a cliff on an expansion on the other side of the map) and warp in your *hidden tech here*
This is basically every DT rush that's kicked my teeth in. I need to keep reminding myself to hold 50 energy on the CC until I'm sure of what the toss is doing. No worse feeling than seeing that blur come in and you're at 15 energy.
160/180 and 224/252 minerals per game-minute respectively.
So if you were able to get a CC built and out to a gold spot it would pay for itself in 2 minutes. Alternatively, you could just build the CC in your own base and double mule and it would pay for itself in a little over 2 minutes.
I feel like double CC main should be the new double hatch.
Disrupter on
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ZarathustraEckUbermenschnow with stripes!Registered Userregular
160/180 and 224/252 minerals per game-minute respectively.
So if you were able to get a CC built and out to a gold spot it would pay for itself in 2 minutes. Alternatively, you could just build the CC in your own base and double mule and it would pay for itself in a little over 2 minutes.
I feel like double CC main should be the new double hatch.
I've started making the CC in my main as a rule, upgrading it, and THEN floating it wherever I want to expand. It ensures at least one use of the MULE before lifting off.
I think the most fun was in a 3v3, though. I had my CC very close to our team's ramp and we started getting hammered. I saw things going south and converted it into a Planetary Fortress then did what I could to stem the tide. Just as our wall crumbled and we ran out of defenders... our enemies ran headfirst into the PF with 6 probes repairing it.
*sniff* It was beautiful.
...and a waste later on because I've got an immobile PF just chilling there. But well worth it to block that push.
I think im going to try a double CC in my main build against zerg and toss. Lack of ability to scout especially early on will mean they will assume im turteling, when in reality, I simply threw down a second CC/Oribital ASAP. Use the excess minerals from the mules and increased SCV production to get a macro advantage in time to build a comparitable army and push/expand.
I love how my days at work half involve me just thinking about crazy starcraft ideas.
Just as our wall crumbled and we ran out of defenders... our enemies ran headfirst into the PF with 6 probes repairing it.
I need more PF with SCVs in my terran play.
Disrupter on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
I've actually been finding 15 Nexus to work almost as well against Protoss as it does FE Zerg.
Dhalphir on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
I still giggle at that captioned series of images from Inception about fake boxer.
also, steadily climbing my diamond ladder now! for a week or so I hovered around 700-800, moving up and down.
Since I've been experimenting with 15 Nexus I've been winning far far more consistently, and its showing. Win % up from 52% to 55%.
Managing two bases that early on is also really helping my macro, helping me to know exactly how many warp gates the income can support, trying to figure out the optimal number of probes when I'm only mining minerals and not gas, and of course, not missing any warp gate production cycles is key to this build.
I've actually been finding 15 Nexus to work almost as well against Protoss as it does FE Zerg.
Uhm, what? Pretty much any build would crush a FE. It just isn't viable in PvP at the moment.
Tell that to the Protoss consistently losing against me.
Admittedly, some of them are only in Platinum, but I've beaten several Diamonds with it too.
I have not watched the replays from their point of view, but some of them have done precisely the thing that crushes it most easily...early stalkers rallied straight to my base as soon as they see the late gates, going for blink, upgrading their weapons and taking their own expansions.
And I still just have so many charge zealots that they get overwhelmed, unless I'm foolish enough to engage in poor terrain.
I'm not saying that its an insta-win strategy, but it is a solid strategy and one that helps to break up the monotony of PvP a bit, where it is almost always 2gate robo vs 2gate robo unless one of the players tries some 3gate or 4gate aggression.
Dhalphir on
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
edited November 2010
I built three CC's in my main yesterday - we were at 200/200 and I was at his doorstep. I pretty much needed something to fend off his landing vikings without taking up unit slots. Also I had so much money.
Dhalp, wouldn't you immediately lose to 2 gate zealot rushing?
Its been tried once. Held it off because 1 gateway under constant chronoboost ALMOST outproduces two gateways under occasional chronoboost, and when you factor in travel time, it does outproduce it and I will have more zealots.
In addition, scouting on 9 makes the timings for this build nearly perfect (you get 400 minerals shortly after hitting 15 supply) so you can see the early gateways and decide to back off from the build if you want to.
I think proxy 2gate would beat it, you'd have to scout the proxy and cancel the expansion, but that applies to any build against proxy 2gates.
I think this requires some testing Dhal, because I'm almost certain any sort of typical 3gate or 2gate robo pressure would beat it (nevermind 4gate). If I'm around later maybe we can try it out.
mEEksa on
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KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
edited November 2010
So,who wants to do a European lobby either tonight around midnight or tomorrow evening around 9pm?
Both times GMT+1.
Completely uptested idea that I just came up with:
Burrow a couple of banelings in the mineral lines of future enemy expansions.
great idea; I've seen it used a couple times to excellent effect, especially waiting for enough workers to accumulate before setting them off
If you position them to be where transferred scvs path through and can hit the maynerd it is insane. Gotta be pretty on the ball to hit them while they're all packed though. I probably can't do it Unless the opponent is kind of not so great.
Completely uptested idea that I just came up with:
Burrow a couple of banelings in the mineral lines of future enemy expansions.
great idea; I've seen it used a couple times to excellent effect, especially waiting for enough workers to accumulate before setting them off
If you position them to be where transferred scvs path through and can hit the maynerd it is insane. Gotta be pretty on the ball to hit them while they're all packed though. I probably can't do it Unless the opponent is kind of not so great.
Can't you just set them to automatically unborrow, making it a lot easier?
Completely uptested idea that I just came up with:
Burrow a couple of banelings in the mineral lines of future enemy expansions.
great idea; I've seen it used a couple times to excellent effect, especially waiting for enough workers to accumulate before setting them off
If you position them to be where transferred scvs path through and can hit the maynerd it is insane. Gotta be pretty on the ball to hit them while they're all packed though. I probably can't do it Unless the opponent is kind of not so great.
Can't you just set them to automatically unborrow, making it a lot easier?
They unburrow within range of attacks from any ranged units though, so if they have marines it doesn't do anything unless you have a mass of banelings. Doing the underground detonation is a lot safer if you can pull it off.
I think this requires some testing Dhal, because I'm almost certain any sort of typical 3gate or 2gate robo pressure would beat it (nevermind 4gate). If I'm around later maybe we can try it out.
I think right now the 15nexus has the Meta game in its favor. In PvP, if a toss scouts and sees just a pylon at the opponent's main, 99% of them will assume a proxy something. This, in turn, makes the opponent more on the defensive because they expect a quick, imminent attack. Even in his replay, the opponent had a larger army and should/could have easily moved out and killed him, or done serious damage. However, I think his opponent stays at home because his opponent is expecting a 2gate proxy.
Once the meta game filters in the 15 nexus build, I don't think it'll have as much going for it in a PvP. Right now though, especially if you hide your 15 expo like Dhal did, I think you'll get tremendous success in PvP with the build.
Getting supply capped is a problem for me as a zerg in the diamond league. Pretty soon you get to ridiculous larva counts running off 2 or 3 bases, and you're able to pump 20 to 40 units all at once. It's hard to pre-emptively pop 4 to 8 overlords for that sort of thing.
TheBog on
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KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
what time does the GSL finals happen in EST time. I cannot comprehend prime meridians and greenwich mean times and people in asia living in the future I just can't I need help
what time does the GSL finals happen in EST time. I cannot comprehend prime meridians and greenwich mean times and people in asia living in the future I just can't I need help
9am GMT on Saturday.
chuckleberryfinn on
No Protoss players were underpowered during this post.
Again:
Tomorrow at 9PM GMT+1 we'll try to have a European SC2 lobby!
I'll be there with bells on.
I would love to do this, but I don't think I can make it. Regular EU lobbies would be orgasmic though.
I will try to keep arranging regular lobbies to build a bit of an EU community sense and to also get myself to actually play ^^ I can also comment on matches :P
I still giggle at that captioned series of images from Inception about fake boxer.
also, steadily climbing my diamond ladder now! for a week or so I hovered around 700-800, moving up and down.
Since I've been experimenting with 15 Nexus I've been winning far far more consistently, and its showing. Win % up from 52% to 55%.
Managing two bases that early on is also really helping my macro, helping me to know exactly how many warp gates the income can support, trying to figure out the optimal number of probes when I'm only mining minerals and not gas, and of course, not missing any warp gate production cycles is key to this build.
I tried your pretty little nexus build last night and got crushed by 7rr. :x Though it was completely my fault. I scouted his base, saw nothing but drones, and then hung out in his natural waiting for the expansion. When it never came, I just did a little herp de derp and kept on trucking, not realizing that an obvious rush was coming.
btw, do you build the nexus before or after your first gateway?
Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=164060
I'm still surprised no one uses the "hotkey eggs" method for adding units to control groups. I'm pretty sure it's the only reason I managed to get into diamond so fast with relatively low apm.
Burrow a couple of banelings in the mineral lines of future enemy expansions.
Handmade Jewelry by me on EtsyGames for sale
Me on Twitch!
he misuses the term "metagame," provides inaccurate advice about saturation (over 2 is diminishing returns; over 3 is basically zero return), and has some underdeveloped advice about expanding (he says to start the extractors and queen when the hatchery pops; doing so in advance is sometimes better). He also suggests an unnecessary action (you don't need to have a group selected to use shift+# to add units to it).
I'm sure a lot of his advice is helpful to some people though, so that's cool.
Handmade Jewelry by me on EtsyGames for sale
Me on Twitch!
great idea; I've seen it used a couple times to excellent effect, especially waiting for enough workers to accumulate before setting them off
Handmade Jewelry by me on EtsyGames for sale
Me on Twitch!
160/180 and 224/252 minerals per game-minute respectively.
So if you were able to get a CC built and out to a gold spot it would pay for itself in 2 minutes. Alternatively, you could just build the CC in your own base and double mule and it would pay for itself in a little over 2 minutes.
I feel like double CC main should be the new double hatch.
I've started making the CC in my main as a rule, upgrading it, and THEN floating it wherever I want to expand. It ensures at least one use of the MULE before lifting off.
I think the most fun was in a 3v3, though. I had my CC very close to our team's ramp and we started getting hammered. I saw things going south and converted it into a Planetary Fortress then did what I could to stem the tide. Just as our wall crumbled and we ran out of defenders... our enemies ran headfirst into the PF with 6 probes repairing it.
*sniff* It was beautiful.
...and a waste later on because I've got an immobile PF just chilling there. But well worth it to block that push.
-Z
I love how my days at work half involve me just thinking about crazy starcraft ideas.
I need more PF with SCVs in my terran play.
also, steadily climbing my diamond ladder now! for a week or so I hovered around 700-800, moving up and down.
Since I've been experimenting with 15 Nexus I've been winning far far more consistently, and its showing. Win % up from 52% to 55%.
Managing two bases that early on is also really helping my macro, helping me to know exactly how many warp gates the income can support, trying to figure out the optimal number of probes when I'm only mining minerals and not gas, and of course, not missing any warp gate production cycles is key to this build.
Uhm, what? Pretty much any build would crush a FE. It just isn't viable in PvP at the moment.
The way you think: I like it.
Tell that to the Protoss consistently losing against me.
Admittedly, some of them are only in Platinum, but I've beaten several Diamonds with it too.
I have not watched the replays from their point of view, but some of them have done precisely the thing that crushes it most easily...early stalkers rallied straight to my base as soon as they see the late gates, going for blink, upgrading their weapons and taking their own expansions.
And I still just have so many charge zealots that they get overwhelmed, unless I'm foolish enough to engage in poor terrain.
I'm not saying that its an insta-win strategy, but it is a solid strategy and one that helps to break up the monotony of PvP a bit, where it is almost always 2gate robo vs 2gate robo unless one of the players tries some 3gate or 4gate aggression.
Enter 3xPF main.
Its been tried once. Held it off because 1 gateway under constant chronoboost ALMOST outproduces two gateways under occasional chronoboost, and when you factor in travel time, it does outproduce it and I will have more zealots.
In addition, scouting on 9 makes the timings for this build nearly perfect (you get 400 minerals shortly after hitting 15 supply) so you can see the early gateways and decide to back off from the build if you want to.
I think proxy 2gate would beat it, you'd have to scout the proxy and cancel the expansion, but that applies to any build against proxy 2gates.
Both times GMT+1.
If you position them to be where transferred scvs path through and can hit the maynerd it is insane. Gotta be pretty on the ball to hit them while they're all packed though. I probably can't do it Unless the opponent is kind of not so great.
Can't you just set them to automatically unborrow, making it a lot easier?
They unburrow within range of attacks from any ranged units though, so if they have marines it doesn't do anything unless you have a mass of banelings. Doing the underground detonation is a lot safer if you can pull it off.
Midnight? Ouch. Maybe. I *think* my ID is Spiffy.119, try that out and add me later, I might be around. I'm Gold 'toss.
Steam: adamjnet
I think right now the 15nexus has the Meta game in its favor. In PvP, if a toss scouts and sees just a pylon at the opponent's main, 99% of them will assume a proxy something. This, in turn, makes the opponent more on the defensive because they expect a quick, imminent attack. Even in his replay, the opponent had a larger army and should/could have easily moved out and killed him, or done serious damage. However, I think his opponent stays at home because his opponent is expecting a 2gate proxy.
Once the meta game filters in the 15 nexus build, I don't think it'll have as much going for it in a PvP. Right now though, especially if you hide your 15 expo like Dhal did, I think you'll get tremendous success in PvP with the build.
I'd be up for that as long as it's tomorrow at 9pm.
Yeah, It'll be tomorrow at 9PM GMT+1!
Again:
Tomorrow at 9PM GMT+1 we'll try to have a European SC2 lobby!
B.net: Kusanku
9am GMT on Saturday.
B.net: Kusanku
I'll be there with bells on.
I would love to do this, but I don't think I can make it. Regular EU lobbies would be orgasmic though.
I will try to keep arranging regular lobbies to build a bit of an EU community sense and to also get myself to actually play ^^ I can also comment on matches :P
Midweek would be better if you're going to do them on the regular. But by all means go ahead tomozzla.
Steam: adamjnet
I tried your pretty little nexus build last night and got crushed by 7rr. :x Though it was completely my fault. I scouted his base, saw nothing but drones, and then hung out in his natural waiting for the expansion. When it never came, I just did a little herp de derp and kept on trucking, not realizing that an obvious rush was coming.
btw, do you build the nexus before or after your first gateway?