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Programming in 3d Directx 11

tracertongtracertong Registered User regular
edited November 2010 in Help / Advice Forum
I want to make a game with heavily tesselated graphics that is preferably also in 3d. What do i need to do this?

-What card for $450 or less?

Ive also heard that its easier than ever to make very advanced graphics. I've seen demos and absolutely want to play.

-what software to use?

-any useful youtube HD lessons that are as good as like say the ForceSC2strategy videos?

Thx

tracertong on

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    AndorienAndorien Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Do you know any programming languages?

    Andorien on
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    tracertongtracertong Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Andorien wrote: »
    Do you know any programming languages?

    No.

    I would prefer something with a graphical interface but that can do automation similar to photoshop.

    tracertong on
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    AndorienAndorien Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Alright, here's what's up:

    If you want to work with DX11, it requires programming. In fact, just about any game creation is going to require some sort of programming no matter what (unless you use something like RPG Maker, and even that can require scripts). Has it gotten easier? Of course, but there's still a bit of a barrier of entry. Rolling with DirectX typically requires an in-depth knowledge of C++.

    As for graphical interfaces, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. If you mean something that shows the program in a visual way somehow, you might find that with a modern game engine, but it still requires at least a heavy amount of scripting.

    Now, I don't want to discourage you. Actually, you don't need all the crazy stuff that DX11 can do, trust me. By the time you start needing it, then you'll know the path to get there, since you'll have been around the block a few times. If you want an easy way to get started with game development, I would suggest looking up Game Maker. IIRC, it has its own internal language that isn't that far from normal programming.

    Also: keep in mind that the limiting factor on your graphics is, most of the time, not going to be the engine, tools, graphics card, or whatever you're on. It's going to be limited by your art assets. Basically, your ability to draw or model.

    Finally, your video card. If you have a regular, gaming graphics card, you'll be fine. Dev studios will have monsterous things in their machines, but you don't need that.

    Andorien on
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    tracertongtracertong Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Trying to get crysis level or better graphics and heavily script using that engine.

    Want to include scanned player faces using the crysis face tech...

    Want to also do some mo-cap using the kinect or whatever is out there...

    tracertong on
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    AndorienAndorien Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Hate to break it to you, but you're not going to be able to do that without the backing of a full development studio and lots and lots of money. If it were easy, single people would be popping out these games every week. Direct3D wont make your game for you, all it does is provide access to the functions of the graphics card in a vender neutral way. Is it easier to make pretty games now? Yes. But "easier" doesn't mean it's easy.

    Andorien on
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    tracertongtracertong Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Andorien wrote: »
    Hate to break it to you, but you're not going to be able to do that without the backing of a full development studio and lots and lots of money. If it were easy, single people would be popping out these games every week. Direct3D wont make your game for you, all it does is provide access to the functions of the graphics card in a vender neutral way. Is it easier to make pretty games now? Yes. But "easier" doesn't mean it's easy.

    Ill do whatever it takes money wise. Ive just been so impressed with the tech demos ive seen.

    Really want to make the best game ever and dx11 is key to this

    tracertong on
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    SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    tracertong wrote: »
    Andorien wrote: »
    Hate to break it to you, but you're not going to be able to do that without the backing of a full development studio and lots and lots of money. If it were easy, single people would be popping out these games every week. Direct3D wont make your game for you, all it does is provide access to the functions of the graphics card in a vender neutral way. Is it easier to make pretty games now? Yes. But "easier" doesn't mean it's easy.

    Ill do whatever it takes money wise. Ive just been so impressed with the tech demos ive seen.

    Really want to make the best game ever and dx11 is key to this
    "Whatever it takes" money-wise is millions of dollars.

    edit: "Whatever it takes" on the other sides is, at minimum, enough experience to know exactly what "crysis level" graphics requires.

    Seol on
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    tracertongtracertong Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Cant i just mod using the unreal engine? Blender?

    tracertong on
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    SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    tracertong wrote: »
    Cant i just mod using the unreal engine? Blender?
    Sure you can, but you'll get amateur results.

    Seol on
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    tracertongtracertong Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Seol wrote: »
    tracertong wrote: »
    Cant i just mod using the unreal engine? Blender?
    Sure you can, but you'll get amateur results.

    So ill need to make my own engine then?

    tracertong on
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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    The engine isn't the limit. An amazing looking game is generally the product of a large art team producing pretty shit.

    Dehumanized on
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    SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    tracertong wrote: »
    Seol wrote: »
    tracertong wrote: »
    Cant i just mod using the unreal engine? Blender?
    Sure you can, but you'll get amateur results.

    So ill need to make my own engine then?
    What sort of chisel do you need to carve Michaelangelo's David?

    That's the sort of question you're asking here.

    Seol on
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    tracertongtracertong Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    How do i use the directx 11 tesselation to make a game for myself? Surely what im thinking of doing basically isnt that hard. I want to script and mo-cap. And not expect to profit off it until years from now.

    tracertong on
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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Everything you're asking for is right here:

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff476079(v=VS.85).aspx

    Everything you need includes a pretty in-depth knowledge of programming, modeling, and design methodologies. Those are generally not included in Microsoft's API Reference documentation.

    Tessellation isn't some magic box which you can press the "Make Crysis" button and end up with a finished product. It's a technology which can be used to do more rendering with less processing power.

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff476340(v=VS.85).aspx

    Dehumanized on
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    VoroVoro Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    This is a pretty terrible idea, at least while you do not have a grasp of what a game engine encompasses and how it works. The source code for some older games has been released, so that would be a good place to start. In fact, I believe Quake 3's full source was released under the GPL. That would be a good place to start.

    Realistically, you have three options:
    • Obtain an engine license (which will typically require that you have an actual company), such as the CryEngine 3
    • Find a free to use engine, though most will not use up-to-date technology. There was supposed to be a free version of the CryEngine 3. but I haven't heard anything more on that
    • Find a game with the technology you want and a SDK, and make a mod for it

    Oh, and I just noticed this gem
    Want to also do some mo-cap using the kinect or whatever is out there...

    Yeah, that is not how that works. You need to break your idea down into all the parts that comprise it, and then figure out what each task requires.

    Voro on
    XBL GamerTag: Comrade Nexus
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    SmasherSmasher Starting to get dizzy Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    tracertong wrote: »
    How do i use the directx 11 tesselation to make a game for myself? Surely what im thinking of doing basically isnt that hard.

    I'm sorry but yes, it's very, very hard. I don't like discouraging people, but from your posts it's clear you really don't understand what you're trying to get yourself into here. While there is the possibility you could become a game designer and programmer someday, there's no chance in hell you can leap into a project like this with no experience and achieve any meaningful degree of success. There's a path that could lead you to success as a a game creator; jumping into this project isn't it.

    First, no amount of tessellation or any other graphics technology is going to make a game. Just like any other game format you need to decide what type of game you're making, the elements of the game, and all of the rules governing those elements. That means you need to decide how to handle every possible situation that could conceivably come up using those elements. That hopefully sounds hard, and it's really way harder than it sounds. This is hard enough for a board game, where there are generally only a few rules and elements; a computer game is far worse.

    For example, let's assume you want to make a FPS. You need to design at least one level, which at the very least entails a reasonable level of familiarity with some form of 3D modeller. Alternatively you can create a system to procedurally generate levels, which is more flexible but much harder. You'll need to create a system to mark which parts of the level are traversable, or design a system to let the game figure it out on the fly from the level data, which again is more flexible but also quite a bit more complicated and bug prone. You have to handle user input and convert it into appropriate game actions, which is arguably one of the simplest tasks in a game. Furthermore you have to handle all of the game logic which has to happen every single frame. You'll need to have a collision detection system; at the very least you need to handle projectiles hitting people or the environment, and lord help you if you want to have object physics like half life 2 or the unreal 3 engine demos.

    You'll probably want to have the option to have computer opponents, which requires a good understanding of both rudimentary computer AI and pathfinding (which lets the computer players actually get to wherever your AI decides they want to go). Those are both areas that have been extensively studied and developed in academia and previous game development; prepare to spend a great deal of time researching them (as well as everything else) in order to make a good implementation of them.

    If you want to make this a multiplayer game prepare to handle the myriad issues which arise when you have latencies that are several times longer than each frame. Also you'll have to decide on what sort of architecture you want your multiplayer to have (client/server or peer-to-peer) and deal with the repercussions either choice has. You'll also have to make sure your game sufficiently protects against attempts to cheat; this can include people who modify the game client, so you have to assume every packet from another computer is potentially invalid and verify/deal with them appropriately.

    Notice how none of the above even touched on graphics or programming. Also, everything I covered above was only the broadest strokes of what a game entails, and I have no doubt I omitted several major things you'll have to take care of.

    If you're truly interested in making an advanced game someday you'll have to start with the basics just like with any other field. Try making a pac-man clone; honestly even that's rather advanced for a beginner, but I have a feeling you'll want to leap into something so I suppose that's a decent compromise. If you manage to make that then it'll still be too early to make what you want, but you could probably make the leap to some sort of simple (SIMPLE) 3d based game. If you do both of those you should have enough experience and understanding to know where you should proceed from there.

    Smasher on
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    tracertongtracertong Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Thanks man I appreciate it.

    tracertong on
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