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[L.A Noire] - Phelps, you didn't use spoiler tags! You're a loose cannon!

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Posts

  • Bacon-BuTTyBacon-BuTTy Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I got to the end of Homicide.
    I'm not sure I enjoyed it overall. Not nearly as much as traffic anyway. I could tell with every new corpse that there was a sereal killer on the loose and that every time I found a new suspect I was wrong to be charging them with anything. So I wandered around, found the evidence, talked to the people, did fairly well, but I felt detatched from the whole thing. Like phelps was solving cases completely differently to how I wanted.

    I mean I know he said it all along - that BD was still out there and possibly responsible for all these killings. But it still felt weird and a bit wrong to beat about the bush like that for five whole cases.

    Also - why did my suspects, after being pressed and after enough successful questioning, act like they fucking did it, when they fucking didn't?

    [EDIT

    And why did they all have blood stained shirts, shoes and tire irons in their houses and apartments?

    I mean seriously. Is that ever explained?

    Anyway, I am on to Vice and I have high hopes. I still love the game... I was just a little disappointed by Homicide. It was the desk I was looking forward to the most.

    Automasig.jpg
  • Captain TragedyCaptain Tragedy Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Pemulis wrote: »
    So my partner (Galloway) won't get in the car with me any more. He just says "I'm busy here Phelps" if I try to make him drive. When I show up at a location he's there, but it's kind of annoying.

    Any ideas?

    Weird. I had this happen to me a couple of times, but holding down Y and asking him to drive broke him out of his endless investigating loop and got him to come over. I've never had him refuse to drive.

    He keeps doing it even after you quit and resume later?

  • TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I got to the end of Homicide.
    I'm not sure I enjoyed it overall. Not nearly as much as traffic anyway. I could tell with every new corpse that there was a sereal killer on the loose and that every time I found a new suspect I was wrong to be charging them with anything. So I wandered around, found the evidence, talked to the people, did fairly well, but I felt detatched from the whole thing. Like phelps was solving cases completely differently to how I wanted.

    I mean I know he said it all along - that BD was still out there and possibly responsible for all these killings. But it still felt weird and a bit wrong to beat about the bush like that for five whole cases.

    Also - why did my suspects, after being pressed and after enough successful questioning, act like they fucking did it, when they fucking didn't?

    [EDIT

    And why did they all have blood stained shirts, shoes and tire irons in their houses and apartments?

    I mean seriously. Is that ever explained?

    Anyway, I am on to Vice and I have high hopes. I still love the game... I was just a little disappointed by Homicide. It was the desk I was looking forward to the most.
    I remember in one of the homicide cases where a guy had a bloody shirt in his apartment. I brought it up in the interrogation and he said that he "cut himself shaving". The whole right sleeve below the elbow was covered in blood and there was a huge patch of blood on the collar. I'm thinking, "What, did you use a straight blade and slit your throat while shaving??" Plus the guy didn't have an obvious cuts on his face, so I called him out on the lie.

    Aaaaand it was thrown back at me. Bullshit!

    steam_sig.png
  • KaseiusKaseius Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Beat it earlier. Enjoyed it up until about half way and which point I started losing interest.
    It felt like, towards the end, they were trying to bring everything together for some big, impressive finisher but it was pretty unexciting for me.

    The 'big reveal' wasn't really all that shocking either -- I'd already guessed it was coming, but it didn't have much of an effect on me because they never show his family. I heard them mentioned one time in the entire game. As far as I care, Cole didn't have a family or a wife.

    Vice sucked. Roy's a dick.

    Playing as Jack was kind of cool, but they didn't really show him enough to make it fantastic. It was just okay.

    The whole war back story and showing everyone regularly seemed pretty forced, like they kind of thought "shit, we need to make some big story that ties everyone and everything together" and it just didn't work out well. Really would have liked it more if Phelps just kept to his detective work and it didn't end up involving these other people as much. Homicide was the best part, I think.

    On top of that, there's a lot of bad animation and frustrating sequences that were pretty forced. Suddenly, you need to balance on stuff! Figure out this poem with a landscape where you can't see shit for icons because it's all black and white and the icons are small! Chase after this car that does impossible turns around corners and completely disobeys the world's physics! A lot of stupid little things that feel like they're pulling the wool over your eyes. Instead of playing the games' strengths, they tried too many other things -- this game didn't belong in an open world to me.

    I don't know, I can't really put my complaints in a coherent manner but I got pretty upset at this game a few times

    Ran down to the local Gamestop and traded it in for 45$. Yes. 8-)

    www.youtube.com/user/kaseius -- Let's Plays
  • mspencermspencer Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    TeeMan wrote: »
    I got to the end of Homicide.
    I'm not sure I enjoyed it overall. Not nearly as much as traffic anyway. I could tell with every new corpse that there was a sereal killer on the loose and that every time I found a new suspect I was wrong to be charging them with anything. So I wandered around, found the evidence, talked to the people, did fairly well, but I felt detatched from the whole thing. Like phelps was solving cases completely differently to how I wanted.

    I mean I know he said it all along - that BD was still out there and possibly responsible for all these killings. But it still felt weird and a bit wrong to beat about the bush like that for five whole cases.

    Also - why did my suspects, after being pressed and after enough successful questioning, act like they fucking did it, when they fucking didn't?

    [EDIT

    And why did they all have blood stained shirts, shoes and tire irons in their houses and apartments?

    I mean seriously. Is that ever explained?

    Anyway, I am on to Vice and I have high hopes. I still love the game... I was just a little disappointed by Homicide. It was the desk I was looking forward to the most.
    I remember in one of the homicide cases where a guy had a bloody shirt in his apartment. I brought it up in the interrogation and he said that he "cut himself shaving". The whole right sleeve below the elbow was covered in blood and there was a huge patch of blood on the collar. I'm thinking, "What, did you use a straight blade and slit your throat while shaving??" Plus the guy didn't have an obvious cuts on his face, so I called him out on the lie.

    Aaaaand it was thrown back at me. Bullshit!

    This is what I've been saying. In that situation (which I won't spoil) that piece of evidence wasn't going to shock the suspect into realizing you know more than he thought you knew. He could still believe that evidence was consistent with his story.

    You need to pick another piece of evidence that shows you know something he expects you don't know, which makes his story implausible. Or if there is no such evidence, pick "doubt" if you don't want to pick "truth."

    (edit) To put it another way, you are trying to manipulate the subject into telling the truth, not win a debate judged by an impartial observer. All that matters is whether the subject is moved by what you're confronting them with.

    MEMBER OF THE PARANOIA GM GUILD
    XBL Michael Spencer || Wii 6007 6812 1605 7315 || PSN MichaelSpencerJr || Steam Michael_Spencer || Ham NOØK
    QRZ || My last known GPS coordinates: FindU or APRS.fi (Car antenna feed line busted -- no ham radio for me X__X )
  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    You know... After hearing about "The New Kid" thing and thinking about Red (un)Dead Redemption...
    I wouldn't mind if there was an Automata case file DLC to work with somewhere down the line. Maybe 5 or so cases.

    newSig.jpg
  • apotheosapotheos Registered User, ClubPA
    edited June 2011
    Pemulis wrote: »
    So my partner (Galloway) won't get in the car with me any more. He just says "I'm busy here Phelps" if I try to make him drive. When I show up at a location he's there, but it's kind of annoying.

    Any ideas?

    I had that. Never tried the force-them-to-drive solution, I just proceeded to the end of the mission. I missed some in-car dialogue and there were glitches in the investigations but it came out mostly ok.



    猿も木から落ちる
  • John ZoidbergJohn Zoidberg Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Nocren wrote: »
    You know... After hearing about "The New Kid" thing and thinking about Red (un)Dead Redemption...
    I wouldn't mind if there was an Automata case file DLC to work with somewhere down the line. Maybe 5 or so cases.

    intero.jpg
    LA-Noire_screenshot_232.jpg

    Xbox Live: Ink Pouch / PSN: Stiff_Ninja / Origin: PAZoidberg / Steam
  • TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    mspencer wrote: »
    TeeMan wrote: »
    I got to the end of Homicide.
    I'm not sure I enjoyed it overall. Not nearly as much as traffic anyway. I could tell with every new corpse that there was a sereal killer on the loose and that every time I found a new suspect I was wrong to be charging them with anything. So I wandered around, found the evidence, talked to the people, did fairly well, but I felt detatched from the whole thing. Like phelps was solving cases completely differently to how I wanted.

    I mean I know he said it all along - that BD was still out there and possibly responsible for all these killings. But it still felt weird and a bit wrong to beat about the bush like that for five whole cases.

    Also - why did my suspects, after being pressed and after enough successful questioning, act like they fucking did it, when they fucking didn't?

    [EDIT

    And why did they all have blood stained shirts, shoes and tire irons in their houses and apartments?

    I mean seriously. Is that ever explained?

    Anyway, I am on to Vice and I have high hopes. I still love the game... I was just a little disappointed by Homicide. It was the desk I was looking forward to the most.
    I remember in one of the homicide cases where a guy had a bloody shirt in his apartment. I brought it up in the interrogation and he said that he "cut himself shaving". The whole right sleeve below the elbow was covered in blood and there was a huge patch of blood on the collar. I'm thinking, "What, did you use a straight blade and slit your throat while shaving??" Plus the guy didn't have an obvious cuts on his face, so I called him out on the lie.

    Aaaaand it was thrown back at me. Bullshit!

    This is what I've been saying. In that situation (which I won't spoil) that piece of evidence wasn't going to shock the suspect into realizing you know more than he thought you knew. He could still believe that evidence was consistent with his story.

    You need to pick another piece of evidence that shows you know something he expects you don't know, which makes his story implausible. Or if there is no such evidence, pick "doubt" if you don't want to pick "truth."

    (edit) To put it another way, you are trying to manipulate the subject into telling the truth, not win a debate judged by an impartial observer. All that matters is whether the subject is moved by what you're confronting them with.

    Agreed, but it didn't make the moment any less annoying/jarring

    steam_sig.png
  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Nocren wrote: »
    You know... After hearing about "The New Kid" thing and thinking about Red (un)Dead Redemption...
    I wouldn't mind if there was an Automata case file DLC to work with somewhere down the line. Maybe 5 or so cases.

    intero.jpg
    LA-Noire_screenshot_232.jpg

    Which is why it could only be a few cases.

    newSig.jpg
  • mspencermspencer Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Wait, did you see the refresh rate of his eye scanners change? He's lying! *accuse*

    MEMBER OF THE PARANOIA GM GUILD
    XBL Michael Spencer || Wii 6007 6812 1605 7315 || PSN MichaelSpencerJr || Steam Michael_Spencer || Ham NOØK
    QRZ || My last known GPS coordinates: FindU or APRS.fi (Car antenna feed line busted -- no ham radio for me X__X )
  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    TeeMan wrote: »
    mspencer wrote: »
    TeeMan wrote: »
    I got to the end of Homicide.
    I'm not sure I enjoyed it overall. Not nearly as much as traffic anyway. I could tell with every new corpse that there was a sereal killer on the loose and that every time I found a new suspect I was wrong to be charging them with anything. So I wandered around, found the evidence, talked to the people, did fairly well, but I felt detatched from the whole thing. Like phelps was solving cases completely differently to how I wanted.

    I mean I know he said it all along - that BD was still out there and possibly responsible for all these killings. But it still felt weird and a bit wrong to beat about the bush like that for five whole cases.

    Also - why did my suspects, after being pressed and after enough successful questioning, act like they fucking did it, when they fucking didn't?

    [EDIT

    And why did they all have blood stained shirts, shoes and tire irons in their houses and apartments?

    I mean seriously. Is that ever explained?

    Anyway, I am on to Vice and I have high hopes. I still love the game... I was just a little disappointed by Homicide. It was the desk I was looking forward to the most.
    I remember in one of the homicide cases where a guy had a bloody shirt in his apartment. I brought it up in the interrogation and he said that he "cut himself shaving". The whole right sleeve below the elbow was covered in blood and there was a huge patch of blood on the collar. I'm thinking, "What, did you use a straight blade and slit your throat while shaving??" Plus the guy didn't have an obvious cuts on his face, so I called him out on the lie.

    Aaaaand it was thrown back at me. Bullshit!

    This is what I've been saying. In that situation (which I won't spoil) that piece of evidence wasn't going to shock the suspect into realizing you know more than he thought you knew. He could still believe that evidence was consistent with his story.

    You need to pick another piece of evidence that shows you know something he expects you don't know, which makes his story implausible. Or if there is no such evidence, pick "doubt" if you don't want to pick "truth."

    (edit) To put it another way, you are trying to manipulate the subject into telling the truth, not win a debate judged by an impartial observer. All that matters is whether the subject is moved by what you're confronting them with.

    Agreed, but it didn't make the moment any less annoying/jarring

    What I did that made sense.
    I knew showing him the shirt wouldn't prove anything because we were already discussing the shirt. So I hit doubt, and Cole said that he didn't think shaving would cause that much blood. He almost made the same exact comment you did about a straight razor.

    The guy then confesses that his brother beat the shit out of him because of how poorly he treats his wife.

    PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - XBL: MXrox - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
  • mspencermspencer Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Right. To put it another way (because I think I'm terrible at explaining things, yet I really want this to make sense to people so they enjoy the game more):

    Many people think you select LIE when you have evidence that convinces you that the person is lying. LIE is not for starting a discussion about a piece of evidence that you both know that you have.

    You actually want to select LIE when you have evidence that convinces the other person that you know more than they thought you knew and you can see right through their lie.

    MEMBER OF THE PARANOIA GM GUILD
    XBL Michael Spencer || Wii 6007 6812 1605 7315 || PSN MichaelSpencerJr || Steam Michael_Spencer || Ham NOØK
    QRZ || My last known GPS coordinates: FindU or APRS.fi (Car antenna feed line busted -- no ham radio for me X__X )
  • apotheosapotheos Registered User, ClubPA
    edited June 2011
    I think "direct contradiction" is the best way to phrase it. All the reasons to select lie from the above example are derivations of common sense from the evidence, but not direct contradictions.

    Its also pretty clear when you call out a lie and its clearly not, you can backout then.



    猿も木から落ちる
  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Basically if what they're saying is PLAUSABLE, albeit unlikely, hit doubt.

    PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - XBL: MXrox - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
  • TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I'm definitely looking forward to replaying some cases with that in mind.

    steam_sig.png
  • mspencermspencer Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    apotheos wrote: »
    I think "direct contradiction" is the best way to phrase it. All the reasons to select lie from the above example are derivations of common sense from the evidence, but not direct contradictions.

    Its also pretty clear when you call out a lie and its clearly not, you can backout then.

    I totally agree, but for the sake of clarity I still think it's important to say: it must be a direct contradiction of something the subject is lying about, where you suspect they are hoping or assuming you don't have the evidence that you have.

    It's a direct contradiction, and they will be shocked to learn that you know about it. That's when to pick LIE.

    MEMBER OF THE PARANOIA GM GUILD
    XBL Michael Spencer || Wii 6007 6812 1605 7315 || PSN MichaelSpencerJr || Steam Michael_Spencer || Ham NOØK
    QRZ || My last known GPS coordinates: FindU or APRS.fi (Car antenna feed line busted -- no ham radio for me X__X )
  • PemulisPemulis Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    apotheos wrote: »
    Pemulis wrote: »
    So my partner (Galloway) won't get in the car with me any more. He just says "I'm busy here Phelps" if I try to make him drive. When I show up at a location he's there, but it's kind of annoying.

    Any ideas?

    I had that. Never tried the force-them-to-drive solution, I just proceeded to the end of the mission. I missed some in-car dialogue and there were glitches in the investigations but it came out mostly ok.

    Captain: It did continue even after quitting and playing later.

    It fixed itself after a couple of missions though, don't know what triggered it. He just got in the car at the station after a mission one time.

    It was a little bit funny, because he would run after the car, across the whole city if necessary. But if I got out and went over to him, or if he caught up with me, he would just ignore me again and walk all the way back to the last location. Really weird.

    steam_sig.png
  • SoundProofingSoundProofing Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Finished the game a couple of days ago. Thoughts:
    At first I thought the ending was pretty good. Once the big reveals occured, this game got darker and darker until it became a Noir story rather than a police procedural/conspiracy the way it had been shaping up.

    The action and the break from repetitive cases to an honest crusade against corruption was exhilarating despite the ridiculous situations(a firefight in a posh suburb of Los Angeles?). It was satisfying because I wanted to blow the lid on the conspiracy and since Kelso's investigation didn't convince them, a hail of lead sure did. The asshole moment between Munro and Kelso was again sweet for me.

    That said, the ending under scrutiny does not really hold up. Earlier threads about its credibility is spot on and the buildup being forced by either bad writing or lack of space is probably accurate in my opinion. Phelps being washed away by runoff instead of being outright killed is very anticlimactic and despite the coffin, I am very worried that Phelps could miraculously survive(I am nervous whenever someone dies off camera). It's probably just me.

    Still I enjoyed the game overall. I would really like to see a sequel that trims the procedurals down a bit in favor of a hardboiled drama involving Jack Kelso. Probably won't happen but you never know.

    I am already considering the Rockstar Pass for this game. It really has hooked into me and now that I got the story out of the way, I would like some more red meat.

  • SoundProofingSoundProofing Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Anyone play "Slip of the Tongue" or "The Naked City"? I'd like someone's opinion on them because I am considering using the Rockstar Pass to get them. I would appreciate it.

  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Naked City has one big reveal that has nothing to do with plot, but was awesome if you like the game and the world its in. Its only very briefly addressed in the on disc cases and never explained otherwise.

    Case itself was fun.

    PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - XBL: MXrox - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
  • Bacon-BuTTyBacon-BuTTy Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    mxmarks wrote: »
    TeeMan wrote: »
    mspencer wrote: »
    TeeMan wrote: »
    I got to the end of Homicide.
    I'm not sure I enjoyed it overall. Not nearly as much as traffic anyway. I could tell with every new corpse that there was a sereal killer on the loose and that every time I found a new suspect I was wrong to be charging them with anything. So I wandered around, found the evidence, talked to the people, did fairly well, but I felt detatched from the whole thing. Like phelps was solving cases completely differently to how I wanted.

    I mean I know he said it all along - that BD was still out there and possibly responsible for all these killings. But it still felt weird and a bit wrong to beat about the bush like that for five whole cases.

    Also - why did my suspects, after being pressed and after enough successful questioning, act like they fucking did it, when they fucking didn't?

    [EDIT

    And why did they all have blood stained shirts, shoes and tire irons in their houses and apartments?

    I mean seriously. Is that ever explained?

    Anyway, I am on to Vice and I have high hopes. I still love the game... I was just a little disappointed by Homicide. It was the desk I was looking forward to the most.
    I remember in one of the homicide cases where a guy had a bloody shirt in his apartment. I brought it up in the interrogation and he said that he "cut himself shaving". The whole right sleeve below the elbow was covered in blood and there was a huge patch of blood on the collar. I'm thinking, "What, did you use a straight blade and slit your throat while shaving??" Plus the guy didn't have an obvious cuts on his face, so I called him out on the lie.

    Aaaaand it was thrown back at me. Bullshit!

    This is what I've been saying. In that situation (which I won't spoil) that piece of evidence wasn't going to shock the suspect into realizing you know more than he thought you knew. He could still believe that evidence was consistent with his story.

    You need to pick another piece of evidence that shows you know something he expects you don't know, which makes his story implausible. Or if there is no such evidence, pick "doubt" if you don't want to pick "truth."

    (edit) To put it another way, you are trying to manipulate the subject into telling the truth, not win a debate judged by an impartial observer. All that matters is whether the subject is moved by what you're confronting them with.

    Agreed, but it didn't make the moment any less annoying/jarring

    What I did that made sense.
    I knew showing him the shirt wouldn't prove anything because we were already discussing the shirt. So I hit doubt, and Cole said that he didn't think shaving would cause that much blood. He almost made the same exact comment you did about a straight razor.

    The guy then confesses that his brother beat the shit out of him because of how poorly he treats his wife.



    Yeah I got that too, actually.

    But nobody ever explained the other items.

    Especially...

    ESPECIALLY...
    The fucking box in the back Just Picked Fruit Market that contained all the victims personal jewlery, next to a draw with bloodied clothes in it.

    Why did he have those?

    Automasig.jpg
  • CygnusZCygnusZ Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    mxmarks wrote: »
    TeeMan wrote: »
    mspencer wrote: »
    TeeMan wrote: »
    I got to the end of Homicide.
    I'm not sure I enjoyed it overall. Not nearly as much as traffic anyway. I could tell with every new corpse that there was a sereal killer on the loose and that every time I found a new suspect I was wrong to be charging them with anything. So I wandered around, found the evidence, talked to the people, did fairly well, but I felt detatched from the whole thing. Like phelps was solving cases completely differently to how I wanted.

    I mean I know he said it all along - that BD was still out there and possibly responsible for all these killings. But it still felt weird and a bit wrong to beat about the bush like that for five whole cases.

    Also - why did my suspects, after being pressed and after enough successful questioning, act like they fucking did it, when they fucking didn't?

    [EDIT

    And why did they all have blood stained shirts, shoes and tire irons in their houses and apartments?

    I mean seriously. Is that ever explained?

    Anyway, I am on to Vice and I have high hopes. I still love the game... I was just a little disappointed by Homicide. It was the desk I was looking forward to the most.
    I remember in one of the homicide cases where a guy had a bloody shirt in his apartment. I brought it up in the interrogation and he said that he "cut himself shaving". The whole right sleeve below the elbow was covered in blood and there was a huge patch of blood on the collar. I'm thinking, "What, did you use a straight blade and slit your throat while shaving??" Plus the guy didn't have an obvious cuts on his face, so I called him out on the lie.

    Aaaaand it was thrown back at me. Bullshit!

    This is what I've been saying. In that situation (which I won't spoil) that piece of evidence wasn't going to shock the suspect into realizing you know more than he thought you knew. He could still believe that evidence was consistent with his story.

    You need to pick another piece of evidence that shows you know something he expects you don't know, which makes his story implausible. Or if there is no such evidence, pick "doubt" if you don't want to pick "truth."

    (edit) To put it another way, you are trying to manipulate the subject into telling the truth, not win a debate judged by an impartial observer. All that matters is whether the subject is moved by what you're confronting them with.

    Agreed, but it didn't make the moment any less annoying/jarring

    What I did that made sense.
    I knew showing him the shirt wouldn't prove anything because we were already discussing the shirt. So I hit doubt, and Cole said that he didn't think shaving would cause that much blood. He almost made the same exact comment you did about a straight razor.

    The guy then confesses that his brother beat the shit out of him because of how poorly he treats his wife.



    Yeah I got that too, actually.

    But nobody ever explained the other items.

    Especially...

    ESPECIALLY...
    The fucking box in the back Just Picked Fruit Market that contained all the victims personal jewlery, next to a draw with bloodied clothes in it.

    Why did he have those?

    Keep on playing to discover the underwhelming and disappointing answer to your question!

  • Bacon-BuTTyBacon-BuTTy Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    CygnusZ wrote: »
    mxmarks wrote: »
    TeeMan wrote: »
    mspencer wrote: »
    TeeMan wrote: »
    I got to the end of Homicide.
    I'm not sure I enjoyed it overall. Not nearly as much as traffic anyway. I could tell with every new corpse that there was a sereal killer on the loose and that every time I found a new suspect I was wrong to be charging them with anything. So I wandered around, found the evidence, talked to the people, did fairly well, but I felt detatched from the whole thing. Like phelps was solving cases completely differently to how I wanted.

    I mean I know he said it all along - that BD was still out there and possibly responsible for all these killings. But it still felt weird and a bit wrong to beat about the bush like that for five whole cases.

    Also - why did my suspects, after being pressed and after enough successful questioning, act like they fucking did it, when they fucking didn't?

    [EDIT

    And why did they all have blood stained shirts, shoes and tire irons in their houses and apartments?

    I mean seriously. Is that ever explained?

    Anyway, I am on to Vice and I have high hopes. I still love the game... I was just a little disappointed by Homicide. It was the desk I was looking forward to the most.
    I remember in one of the homicide cases where a guy had a bloody shirt in his apartment. I brought it up in the interrogation and he said that he "cut himself shaving". The whole right sleeve below the elbow was covered in blood and there was a huge patch of blood on the collar. I'm thinking, "What, did you use a straight blade and slit your throat while shaving??" Plus the guy didn't have an obvious cuts on his face, so I called him out on the lie.

    Aaaaand it was thrown back at me. Bullshit!

    This is what I've been saying. In that situation (which I won't spoil) that piece of evidence wasn't going to shock the suspect into realizing you know more than he thought you knew. He could still believe that evidence was consistent with his story.

    You need to pick another piece of evidence that shows you know something he expects you don't know, which makes his story implausible. Or if there is no such evidence, pick "doubt" if you don't want to pick "truth."

    (edit) To put it another way, you are trying to manipulate the subject into telling the truth, not win a debate judged by an impartial observer. All that matters is whether the subject is moved by what you're confronting them with.

    Agreed, but it didn't make the moment any less annoying/jarring

    What I did that made sense.
    I knew showing him the shirt wouldn't prove anything because we were already discussing the shirt. So I hit doubt, and Cole said that he didn't think shaving would cause that much blood. He almost made the same exact comment you did about a straight razor.

    The guy then confesses that his brother beat the shit out of him because of how poorly he treats his wife.



    Yeah I got that too, actually.

    But nobody ever explained the other items.

    Especially...

    ESPECIALLY...
    The fucking box in the back Just Picked Fruit Market that contained all the victims personal jewlery, next to a draw with bloodied clothes in it.

    Why did he have those?

    Keep on playing to discover the underwhelming and disappointing answer to your question!


    I'm in Vice now.

    So I'm done.

    Care to enlighten me?

    Or do you mean I will eventually find out after having finished Homicide?

    Automasig.jpg
  • PepperSinclairePepperSinclaire Registered User
    edited June 2011
    No matter how hard I try, I can't stop playing this like I'm Francis York Morgan from Deadly Premonition.

    I've been driving around recklessly (thinking about how much of a cash drain I'm being on the city and not caring), trying to drive up things I can't drive up, making Phelps run off cliffs and into traffic, investigating spoons and forks for far too long, standing around in diners, hijacking cars and then getting straight out of them again...

    If only you could control the windscreen wipers and turn signals on cars. I'll have to make do with turning the siren on and off in time with the radio music, I guess. If you time it just right it sounds kinda like a seal barking.

    Oh yeah, and I solve the odd crime here and there. When I've got time.

    Signature pending.
  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I once parked on the edge of a cliff, facing out. Then I got out, walked to the other side, and told my partner to drive. He gets in and slams on the accelerator. The screen fades out to a loading screen half a second before I hit the ground.

  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Ok, I just finished Traffic and I did it all in Black and White. And after watching my brother play through half of those cases (the first two anyway) in color, I gotta say... I think I almost prefer it in Monochrome.
    It just seems to work better. The only thing missing is the metaphor-heavy voice over.

    Still though... TWICE in the final shootout on the last Traffic case, a cop RUNS in front of me while I'm shooting the bad guys. And not at the beginning of the firefight either, no, I've got 2 guys left hiding behind a car, I'm also behind cover and the patrolman runs in front of MY position. He's not even in the middle of the kill area, he's RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME.

    Also, running into Marv (though I guess he goes by Frank Morgan now) just made me wish for another Tex Murphy game...

    newSig.jpg
  • NaturalNarcissistNaturalNarcissist Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Hey guys, care to settle a bet for me? End of game/Beginning of Arson spoilers I suppose...
    So I was discussing with a friend of mine about how out-of-the blue the whole Elsa and Phelps are boinking plot point is. I argued that it was a bit absurd for the game to suddenly tell us that they were sleeping together since the end of the traffic desk (when Roy introduced Elsa to Phelps). My friend then argued that I read it wrong - that Elsa and Phelps ONLY sleep together for the first time in Manifest Destiny, the last vice case. This seems absurd to me, as I just assumed the game wanted us to believe they were together for a while.

    Anyone want to clear this up for us?

  • CygnusZCygnusZ Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    CygnusZ wrote: »
    mxmarks wrote: »
    TeeMan wrote: »
    mspencer wrote: »
    TeeMan wrote: »
    I got to the end of Homicide.
    I'm not sure I enjoyed it overall. Not nearly as much as traffic anyway. I could tell with every new corpse that there was a sereal killer on the loose and that every time I found a new suspect I was wrong to be charging them with anything. So I wandered around, found the evidence, talked to the people, did fairly well, but I felt detatched from the whole thing. Like phelps was solving cases completely differently to how I wanted.

    I mean I know he said it all along - that BD was still out there and possibly responsible for all these killings. But it still felt weird and a bit wrong to beat about the bush like that for five whole cases.

    Also - why did my suspects, after being pressed and after enough successful questioning, act like they fucking did it, when they fucking didn't?

    [EDIT

    And why did they all have blood stained shirts, shoes and tire irons in their houses and apartments?

    I mean seriously. Is that ever explained?

    Anyway, I am on to Vice and I have high hopes. I still love the game... I was just a little disappointed by Homicide. It was the desk I was looking forward to the most.
    I remember in one of the homicide cases where a guy had a bloody shirt in his apartment. I brought it up in the interrogation and he said that he "cut himself shaving". The whole right sleeve below the elbow was covered in blood and there was a huge patch of blood on the collar. I'm thinking, "What, did you use a straight blade and slit your throat while shaving??" Plus the guy didn't have an obvious cuts on his face, so I called him out on the lie.

    Aaaaand it was thrown back at me. Bullshit!

    This is what I've been saying. In that situation (which I won't spoil) that piece of evidence wasn't going to shock the suspect into realizing you know more than he thought you knew. He could still believe that evidence was consistent with his story.

    You need to pick another piece of evidence that shows you know something he expects you don't know, which makes his story implausible. Or if there is no such evidence, pick "doubt" if you don't want to pick "truth."

    (edit) To put it another way, you are trying to manipulate the subject into telling the truth, not win a debate judged by an impartial observer. All that matters is whether the subject is moved by what you're confronting them with.

    Agreed, but it didn't make the moment any less annoying/jarring

    What I did that made sense.
    I knew showing him the shirt wouldn't prove anything because we were already discussing the shirt. So I hit doubt, and Cole said that he didn't think shaving would cause that much blood. He almost made the same exact comment you did about a straight razor.

    The guy then confesses that his brother beat the shit out of him because of how poorly he treats his wife.



    Yeah I got that too, actually.

    But nobody ever explained the other items.

    Especially...

    ESPECIALLY...
    The fucking box in the back Just Picked Fruit Market that contained all the victims personal jewlery, next to a draw with bloodied clothes in it.

    Why did he have those?

    Keep on playing to discover the underwhelming and disappointing answer to your question!


    I'm in Vice now.

    So I'm done.

    Care to enlighten me?

    Or do you mean I will eventually find out after having finished Homicide?
    Clearly the super genius serial killer broke into ALL those places and planted the evidence!
    Not only that, he's so fucking brilliant he managed to coordinate all the crimes so the suspects would have size whatever feet.

    Yes, let's give kudos to Bondi for creating such a well thought mystery.

  • Bacon-BuTTyBacon-BuTTy Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    CygnusZ wrote: »
    CygnusZ wrote: »
    mxmarks wrote: »
    TeeMan wrote: »
    mspencer wrote: »
    TeeMan wrote: »
    I got to the end of Homicide.
    I'm not sure I enjoyed it overall. Not nearly as much as traffic anyway. I could tell with every new corpse that there was a sereal killer on the loose and that every time I found a new suspect I was wrong to be charging them with anything. So I wandered around, found the evidence, talked to the people, did fairly well, but I felt detatched from the whole thing. Like phelps was solving cases completely differently to how I wanted.

    I mean I know he said it all along - that BD was still out there and possibly responsible for all these killings. But it still felt weird and a bit wrong to beat about the bush like that for five whole cases.

    Also - why did my suspects, after being pressed and after enough successful questioning, act like they fucking did it, when they fucking didn't?

    [EDIT

    And why did they all have blood stained shirts, shoes and tire irons in their houses and apartments?

    I mean seriously. Is that ever explained?

    Anyway, I am on to Vice and I have high hopes. I still love the game... I was just a little disappointed by Homicide. It was the desk I was looking forward to the most.
    I remember in one of the homicide cases where a guy had a bloody shirt in his apartment. I brought it up in the interrogation and he said that he "cut himself shaving". The whole right sleeve below the elbow was covered in blood and there was a huge patch of blood on the collar. I'm thinking, "What, did you use a straight blade and slit your throat while shaving??" Plus the guy didn't have an obvious cuts on his face, so I called him out on the lie.

    Aaaaand it was thrown back at me. Bullshit!

    This is what I've been saying. In that situation (which I won't spoil) that piece of evidence wasn't going to shock the suspect into realizing you know more than he thought you knew. He could still believe that evidence was consistent with his story.

    You need to pick another piece of evidence that shows you know something he expects you don't know, which makes his story implausible. Or if there is no such evidence, pick "doubt" if you don't want to pick "truth."

    (edit) To put it another way, you are trying to manipulate the subject into telling the truth, not win a debate judged by an impartial observer. All that matters is whether the subject is moved by what you're confronting them with.

    Agreed, but it didn't make the moment any less annoying/jarring

    What I did that made sense.
    I knew showing him the shirt wouldn't prove anything because we were already discussing the shirt. So I hit doubt, and Cole said that he didn't think shaving would cause that much blood. He almost made the same exact comment you did about a straight razor.

    The guy then confesses that his brother beat the shit out of him because of how poorly he treats his wife.



    Yeah I got that too, actually.

    But nobody ever explained the other items.

    Especially...

    ESPECIALLY...
    The fucking box in the back Just Picked Fruit Market that contained all the victims personal jewlery, next to a draw with bloodied clothes in it.

    Why did he have those?

    Keep on playing to discover the underwhelming and disappointing answer to your question!


    I'm in Vice now.

    So I'm done.

    Care to enlighten me?

    Or do you mean I will eventually find out after having finished Homicide?
    Clearly the super genius serial killer broke into ALL those places and planted the evidence!
    Not only that, he's so fucking brilliant he managed to coordinate all the crimes so the suspects would have size whatever feet.

    Yes, let's give kudos to Bondi for creating such a well thought mystery.


    At first I was just confused and thought that I didn't like Homicide.

    I really didn't like Homicide.

    It's been kind of a disappointing series of events, since I fucking loved this game right up to about one third of the way into Homicide. Nothing felt right for the whole desk. I understand that they were trying to present this overarching storyline but it was like they couldn't make their minds up.

    All of Homicide Desk in a nutshell [SPOILERS] -
    Here's a whole bunch of incredibly strong evidence pointing you towards option A. Here's a whole bunch of even stronger evidence pointing you to option B as well. Oh well. Better choose option A since you have no choice. Congratulations for choosing option A! You were right to do that! Although not really. Because clearly B was right. But go with A for now. Okay, now do that four times. Wait, what? No, you're right, nobody denied it convincingly. I know they all acted as if they did it. Also, yes, they all had murder weapons in their houses and they all had blood stained ite- ... yes I know that's a huge coinsidence... look, fine, here's a poem - decode it. I hope you know your L.A Landmarks by the way. Either that or waiting. You like waiting right? Cool. Oh look, it's the real killer. Shoot him after a really lackluster chase scene where Phelps moves like a robot through a corridor that's 5 miles long.

    Want proper closure or details? Tough shit.

    Grats. Do Vice now.

    I hope shit like that is left behind and Vice picks back up into being awesome again.

    Automasig.jpg
  • NaturalNarcissistNaturalNarcissist Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Regarding Homicide:
    The most ridiculous thing about all those cases is that the fake suspects never wandered into their rooms and found the glaringly obvious evidence themselves. I'm fine with the idea that he planted evidence, but how in the world did, say, the fruit stand dude not wander into the back room of the shop and find all that stuff before Phelps came in?

    Heavy Rain got massacred for its plot holes, but LA Noire's are almost as glaring. Seriously though, the Elsa stuff is so hilariously unclear. No proper story should hinge its plot on a point so vague that a friend and I can sit and debate for minutes on end about what actually just happened.

    Mainly though, I was infuriated when I realized that all the newspapers were, in effect, spoiling the game for me. Who in the world thought I'd want to know that backstory hours before I got there myself? That's appalling storytelling, no matter how you view it.

  • B:LB:L Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Finished the game, absolutely disappointed:
    Gameplay was not up to par. The shooting parts were too easy with auto aim and regenerating health, and even without auto aim it's easy enough to headshot folks. The cover system was absolutely horrid and cumbersome with Phelps possibly getting stuck against the wrong wall, having to press a button to unstick yourself from your cover. The default driving camera is unusable; who thought it was a good idea to switch randomly between random camera angles while driving? Especially when the driving controls aren't very responsive. The street crimes were completely pointless as well having no resolution other than dead or hospitalized perp almost all the time.

    The investigations/interrogations deserve their own paragraph in how badly they were handled. The differences between Doubt and Lie were horribly defined, as evidenced by the multitude of issues that folks have had with it. I would have definitely preferred Doubt to be closer to Phoenix Wright's Press where you can get additional info if used right, but can blow up in your face only in very specific scenarios like pressing a rape victim. They can replace the current doubt with more evidence on the list that can be used for the Lie option. The cases were very unsatisfying in how they ended in abrupt Law & Order style, except without the Order part so it's even worse. You realize pretty quick by the time Homicide nears its end that what you do doesn't matter to the story, which can ruin a game that attempts to be immersive. Same thing happened in Heavy Rain.

    The story overall was extremely ham fisted noire, and definitely felt rushed. There WERE actually hints that his marriage wasn't perfect in how Phelps always avoided questions about family life, but he was always portrayed as someone trying to always do the right thing in his own flawed little way, and suddenly banging a German drug addict didn't quite fit the bill. That part definitely needed development, showing how they connected because they were drawn together by how each other were both damaged.

    The writers apparently decided to use twist after twist to try and keep players guessing, but the way it was executed reminds me of David Cage and Indigo Prophecy. The Homicide twist was acceptable, even if not enjoyable in how it made several hours of your game time useless. The Vice twist was a plot contrivance created merely to move the plot along while kicking the player in the balls. The Arson twists basically removed all antagonists from the picture, meaning there's no more conflict. But if that's the case, what's the climax of the story? When Ira busted in to choke a bitch on Fontaine? When Peterson the Assistant DA shook hands with the Chief? With the conflict removed, the pacing goes to shit with a long ass falling action with no real dénouement.

    Wiki writes:
    "The comedy ends with a dénouement (a conclusion) in which the protagonist is better off than at the story's outset. The tragedy ends with a catastrophe in which the protagonist is worse off than at the beginning of the narrative."

    This became a tragedy ending in which the protagonist is better off than at the story's outset, having redeemed himself, but the people he left behind are fucked over and the indirect antagonists win.

    The characters are extremely flawed for a noir setting as well. Phelps is flawed in the sense that he remains overly optimistic, enthusiastic and possibly even naive throughout the game, while a noir story would probably be better served if he became or started off more cynical and detached. Jack Kelso is the most flawed in the sense that HE HAS NO FLAWS. It's obvious why most people like him, he's a goddamn Mary Sue character. Even the little after credits blurb didn't make him out to be anything other than a practical loyal hardworking firm intelligent tough determined man.


    What the game did do well was in the presentation. They really pulled off the face recording technology bits, and I would love to see how that technology progresses in later games and possibly back into movies. The setting just felt right with 1940's LA and nothing quite felt out of place. I'll give credit to the devs for being ambitious but they definitely need better direction to prevent their next game from falling apart. I'll also second those wanting an LA Noir 2 because these flaws, despite how terrible they are, can be fixed and once they're gone it would definitely be a great game.

    Until then, I won't play it again.

    10mvrci.png click for Anime chat
  • NaturalNarcissistNaturalNarcissist Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    You're right, Kelso is such a Mary Sue. I'd still like to know why the hell Rockstar/Team Bondi thought players would want to have newspaper collectibles spoil all the plot twists hours in advance.

    Is Kelso in on the marine conspiracy? Well five hours ago I just watched him take on Mickey Cohen for Courtney.

    Gee, who's behind the arson cases? Maybe Fontaine since I saw a cutscene 18 hours ago showing him with an arsonist.

    The newspaper collectibles would have been great to include on a second playthrough, but as of now I'm telling friends of mine to actively skip all the newspaper cutscenes.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Except the first newspaper in the last mission, you mean.

    optimusmegs-winter.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • SoundProofingSoundProofing Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Ugh, got to the end of the "Consul's Car" Traffic Case. Was anybody able to finish it?
    It freezes after I arrest Delgado at the end of the chase. It keeps sounding like a car engine turning over with the silhouette of a ship.

    Anybody else with a PS3 can verify this? I'd like to finish this case. It was getting good.

  • Skull2185Skull2185 Hey everyone Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    So I can't decide if this rockstar pass thing is worth it.

    Is it? Don't really care about the suits, but the cases would be nice.

    It's like the N-word and the C-word had a baby, and it was raised by all the bad words for Jews.
    3DS FC: 5129-0946-8305
    PSN: DrSkullnumbers
  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    So I can't decide if this rockstar pass thing is worth it.

    Is it? Don't really care about the suits, but the cases would be nice.

    If you want all the cases, its a hell of a deal. Even getting one for free from a pre-order I still saved $2 on the cases alone, and got the suits and stuff for free essentially.

    Cases are $4 a pop, pass is $10.

    PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - XBL: MXrox - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
  • SlortexSlortex In my chairRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Ugh, got to the end of the "Consul's Car" Traffic Case. Was anybody able to finish it?
    It freezes after I arrest Delgado at the end of the chase. It keeps sounding like a car engine turning over with the silhouette of a ship.

    Anybody else with a PS3 can verify this? I'd like to finish this case. It was getting good.

    i finished it without a hitch. I'm running on a slim model. The only thing after the arrest of Delgado is the end cutscene and your mission score, so if you continue to have problems, you should be able to find the ending on youtube and not miss anything.

  • NaturalNarcissistNaturalNarcissist Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Slip of the Tongue is rather pointless. It's not bad but rather... just kind of there. And people talking about it containing "foreshadowing" are really pushing things though. Still, spending time with Bekowsky is always welcome.

    Naked City is a blast though. A great central storyline with plenty of twists, it's also one of the longest cases in the game with plenty of interrogations. Plus it fleshes out Roy Earle a bit more, and contains a fun moment with some familiar faces. Definitely worth your time.

  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I just started playing this last night and actually managed to screw up the interrogation with Mr. Kalou, believe it or not. I quickly started the interrogation over, despite my initial intent to live with any poor decisions I made. Oh well!

    I also got the Rockstar pass.

This discussion has been closed.