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so...uh...Cars 2

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    BerkBerk THE BUDGIE SMUGGLER Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    insidelightning.jpg

    Berk on
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    Viscount IslandsViscount Islands [INSERT SoKo HERE] ...it was the summer of my lifeRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Raneados wrote: »
    Rane you have a problem with the Nostalgia Critic?

    i think so, if i'm remembering who it is correctly?

    too lazy to find out

    He reviews goofy 80's and 90's movies and doesn't take himself seriously at all.

    Viscount Islands on
    I want to do with you
    What spring does with the cherry trees.
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    SalSal Damnedest Little Fellow Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I think I might wait for the reviews for this one

    Sal on
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    TheySlashThemTheySlashThem Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Berk wrote: »
    rank just beat me to what I was going to say.

    So enjoy this redundant post!!!!

    I am enjoying that redundant post so hard right now

    TheySlashThem on
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    TamTam Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I want more Miyazaki films.

    was Ponyo his last?

    Tam on
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    RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2010
    Miyizaki is a competent animator, an incredible designer, but a lackluster storyteller

    Rankenphile on
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    Viscount IslandsViscount Islands [INSERT SoKo HERE] ...it was the summer of my lifeRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Tam wrote: »
    I want more Miyazaki films.

    was Ponyo his last?

    I'm not sure, but I remember them talking about him retiring soon. :(

    Viscount Islands on
    I want to do with you
    What spring does with the cherry trees.
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    bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    holy shit some of the ignorant bullshit being said about pixar and their quality is incredibly infuriating to someone who actually studies this shit

    look

    I get that maybe you didn't care for the story of Up or Wall-E for some reason. That's fine. They were somewhat saccharine and naturally they're formulaic - it's a hollywood film, they're all formulaic.

    But you absolutely cannot deny that Pixar is creating the best pieces of long-form animation being produced for the mainstream today. Their story process is impeccable, and they manage to boil every single shot down to its most pure essence, as well as making sure that there is little to no unnecessary moments in the entire film. The opening sequence to Up, in particular, is one of the best pieces of storytelling I've ever seen. Absolutely masterful.

    Their animation is astounding. Absolutely, jaw-droppingly wonderful. If you argue that point, you're fucking wrong. That's all there is to it. This isn't an opinion, these guys are fucking good at animating. That's a goddamn fact.

    Their shot composition, use of color and layout and techniques for leading the eye around the screen are exceedingly clever. They know and understand the principles of film-making and use them exceptionally well. They are leading the pack in terms of what the technology is capable of. Shit, they fucking invented half of the cg technology we take for granted today.

    So, fine. You can say that you didn't like the film, that's fine. But you cannot say the films were bad. Because that is wrong. They are amazingly, wonderfully great films that you simply didn't care for.

    if they are so fucking revolutionary in the artistry of animation - and i don't deny they are, i just can't judge because i'm not an animator nor a particularly learned critic of animation - then why don't they spend some time on films that aren't explicitly for kids? like, one film?

    it would be a lot easier to appreciate the finesse of things like shot composition in a context with actual consequence. every pixar film i've seen has been an extremely simple fantasy narrative with a telegraphed emotional crescendo, superimposed with another whacky set of anthropomorphic characters. this is excellent for children, in fact i'd say it's a winning formula. it's terrible for adults - it's miles away from any sort of relevant human drama

    you love pixar because you geek out on the technical details of the animation first and then excuse other misgivings based on those virtues. but i'm a writer, i geek out on dialogue and narrative, and pixar has never put anything in their films that challenged or impressed me on that level.

    awful analogy: if you put a gourmet fig and cardamom preserve in a 5 year old's pb&j, you're wasting the fucking conserve. put it on a board with a fine soft cheese and a glass of sauvignon blanc and you've got something to talk about

    bsjezz on
    sC4Q4nq.jpg
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    ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Miyizaki is a competent animator, an incredible designer, but a lackluster storyteller

    I disagree!

    Zombiemambo on
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    TamTam Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Aphostile wrote: »
    One of my favorite Pixar works isn't even technically by Pixar, though it is by a guy that's worked in their animation department for countless films.

    Alma:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63fwk_pQFIE

    Makes me really want a creepy Pixar movie.

    D:

    edit: shit I saw it coming as soon as I saw the face of the store, and it was still horrible

    Tam on
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    BusterKBusterK Negativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Miyizaki is a competent animator, an incredible designer, but a lackluster storyteller

    Your calling the stories of

    Spirited Away
    Howl's Moving Castle
    Princess Mononoke
    Lackluster?
    Really?

    BusterK on
    Visit http://www.cruzflores.com for all your Cruz Flores needs. Also listen to the podcast I do with Penguin Incarnate http://wgsgshow.podomatic.com
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    BaidolBaidol I will hold him off Escape while you canRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Tam wrote: »
    Aphostile wrote: »
    One of my favorite Pixar works isn't even technically by Pixar, though it is by a guy that's worked in their animation department for countless films.

    Alma:
    snip

    Makes me really want a creepy Pixar movie.

    D:

    The boy on the bike was really nice.

    Baidol on
    Steam Overwatch: Baidol#1957
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    Viscount IslandsViscount Islands [INSERT SoKo HERE] ...it was the summer of my lifeRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    BusterK wrote: »
    Miyizaki is a competent animator, an incredible designer, but a lackluster storyteller

    Your calling the stories of

    Spirited Away
    Howl's Moving Castle
    Princess Mononoke
    Lackluster?
    Really?

    Whisper of the Heart

    Viscount Islands on
    I want to do with you
    What spring does with the cherry trees.
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    RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2010
    bsjezz wrote: »
    holy shit some of the ignorant bullshit being said about pixar and their quality is incredibly infuriating to someone who actually studies this shit

    look

    I get that maybe you didn't care for the story of Up or Wall-E for some reason. That's fine. They were somewhat saccharine and naturally they're formulaic - it's a hollywood film, they're all formulaic.

    But you absolutely cannot deny that Pixar is creating the best pieces of long-form animation being produced for the mainstream today. Their story process is impeccable, and they manage to boil every single shot down to its most pure essence, as well as making sure that there is little to no unnecessary moments in the entire film. The opening sequence to Up, in particular, is one of the best pieces of storytelling I've ever seen. Absolutely masterful.

    Their animation is astounding. Absolutely, jaw-droppingly wonderful. If you argue that point, you're fucking wrong. That's all there is to it. This isn't an opinion, these guys are fucking good at animating. That's a goddamn fact.

    Their shot composition, use of color and layout and techniques for leading the eye around the screen are exceedingly clever. They know and understand the principles of film-making and use them exceptionally well. They are leading the pack in terms of what the technology is capable of. Shit, they fucking invented half of the cg technology we take for granted today.

    So, fine. You can say that you didn't like the film, that's fine. But you cannot say the films were bad. Because that is wrong. They are amazingly, wonderfully great films that you simply didn't care for.

    if they are so fucking revolutionary in the artistry of animation - and i don't deny they are, i just can't judge because i'm not an animator nor a particularly learned critic of animation - then why don't they spend some time on films that aren't explicitly for kids? like, one film?

    it would be a lot easier to appreciate the finesse of things like shot composition in a context with actual consequence. every pixar film i've seen has been an extremely simple fantasy narrative with a telegraphed emotional crescendo, superimposed with another whacky set of anthropomorphic characters. this is excellent for children, in fact i'd say it's a winning formula. it's terrible for adults - it's miles away from any sort of relevant human drama

    you love pixar because you geek out on the technical animation first and then excuse other misgivings based on those virtues. but i'm a writer, i geek out on dialogue and narrative, and pixar has never put anything in their films that challenged or impressed me on that level.

    awful analogy: if you put a gourmet fig and cardamom preserve in a 5 year old's pb&j, you're wasting the fucking conserve. put it on a board with a fine soft cheese and a glass of sauvignon blanc and you've got something to talk about
    You are utterly wrong if you think that they make movies only for children.

    Yeah, I'm into animation. I'm also into storytelling. And their storytelling is spot-fucking-on. Sorry if they're not challenging your little fucking paradigm, but they're telling accessible stories with a solid range of emotional arcs (you can't fucking tell me that the opening sequence for Up isn't goddamn masterful and full of emotional, impactful story. There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to tell stories to a broad audience, and Disney has been doing it successfully (and unsuccessfully) for generations. I don't know what it is you're expecting out of them - horror thrillers or gritty crime dramas? But they have found a very broad niche and they tell open, accessible stories to a wide audience and they do that better then just about anybody.

    Rankenphile on
    8406wWN.png
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    FAQFAQ Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    BusterK wrote: »
    Miyizaki is a competent animator, an incredible designer, but a lackluster storyteller

    Your calling the stories of

    Spirited Away
    Howl's Moving Castle
    Princess Mononoke
    Lackluster?
    Really?

    gotta side with the mob on this one

    FAQ on
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    BusterKBusterK Negativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind is a wonderful story

    BusterK on
    Visit http://www.cruzflores.com for all your Cruz Flores needs. Also listen to the podcast I do with Penguin Incarnate http://wgsgshow.podomatic.com
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    RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2010
    BusterK wrote: »
    Miyizaki is a competent animator, an incredible designer, but a lackluster storyteller

    Your calling the stories of

    Spirited Away
    Howl's Moving Castle
    Princess Mononoke
    Lackluster?
    Really?

    I am.

    It's my opinion, of course, but I feel that if he had spent as much attention crafting his story arcs that he does to his environments and characters, then he'd have much more solid films.

    Rankenphile on
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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I too disagree with Rankenphile on this issue.

    Princess Mononoke in particular has an amazing story.

    Centipede Damascus on
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    bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    You are utterly wrong if you think that they make movies only for children.

    sorry, but it's where the priority is. as much as you might wish it otherwise, as much as you assume that because they do something you love to do well, they're doing it for you: they're not, and it doesn't make it so.

    these aren't great or memorable stories. they are fantasies, designed for kids and people who want to feel good. that's not the fucking point of storytelling. storytelling isn't about 'accessibility' nor is it about being a vehicle for style. storytelling is about communication, and these films communicate nothing

    edit: nothing but the broadest emotions and time-worn morals, anyway

    bsjezz on
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    BusterKBusterK Negativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I'll agree his stories don't run like Swiss watches
    But not every story needs to be water tight and free of any extraneous elements like character and tone

    BusterK on
    Visit http://www.cruzflores.com for all your Cruz Flores needs. Also listen to the podcast I do with Penguin Incarnate http://wgsgshow.podomatic.com
    Amazon Wishlist: http://www.amazon.com/BusterK/wishlist/3JPEKJGX9G54I/ref=cm_wl_search_bin_1
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    RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2010
    bsjezz wrote: »
    storytelling is about communication, and these films communicate nothing

    what

    Rankenphile on
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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    bsjezz wrote: »
    You are utterly wrong if you think that they make movies only for children.

    sorry, but it's where the priority is. as much as you might wish it otherwise, as much as you assume that because they do something you love to do well, they're doing it for you: they're not, and it doesn't make it so.

    these aren't great or memorable stories. they are fantasies, designed for kids and people who want to feel good. that's not the fucking point of storytelling. storytelling isn't about 'accessibility' nor is it about being a vehicle for style. storytelling is about communication, and these films communicate nothing

    Man these stories are some of the most layered, thematically relevant stories out there.

    Go watch A Bug's Life again and tell me it's not about unionizing. Watch Monsters Inc. and tell me it's not about parenthood. Watch the entire god damned Toy Story trilogy and tell me it's not about the fear of growing obsolete or losing your friends.

    SimBen on
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    Viscount IslandsViscount Islands [INSERT SoKo HERE] ...it was the summer of my lifeRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Pixar movies communicate nothing you heard it here first folks.

    Viscount Islands on
    I want to do with you
    What spring does with the cherry trees.
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    MysstMysst King Monkey of Hedonism IslandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    BusterK wrote: »
    I'll agree his stories don't run like Swiss watches
    But not every story needs to be water tight and free of any extraneous elements like character and tone

    yeah, his stories definitely hitch in places, but I feel that's more style, kind of like when you read a book and then pause to think about stuff

    Mysst on
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    RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    bsjezz is confusing the fact that he doesn't like something with that something being bad

    It's a common error

    just because you don't like something doesn't make it not good

    you just don't like it

    Rent on
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    BusterKBusterK Negativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    ovc23243.jpg

    BusterK on
    Visit http://www.cruzflores.com for all your Cruz Flores needs. Also listen to the podcast I do with Penguin Incarnate http://wgsgshow.podomatic.com
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    StaleghotiStaleghoti Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    No one should ever be forced to drink Sauvignon Blanc

    Staleghoti on
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    MysstMysst King Monkey of Hedonism IslandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    SimBen wrote: »
    bsjezz wrote: »
    You are utterly wrong if you think that they make movies only for children.

    sorry, but it's where the priority is. as much as you might wish it otherwise, as much as you assume that because they do something you love to do well, they're doing it for you: they're not, and it doesn't make it so.

    these aren't great or memorable stories. they are fantasies, designed for kids and people who want to feel good. that's not the fucking point of storytelling. storytelling isn't about 'accessibility' nor is it about being a vehicle for style. storytelling is about communication, and these films communicate nothing

    Man these stories are some of the most layered, thematically relevant stories out there.

    Go watch A Bug's Life again and tell me it's not about unionizing. Watch Monsters Inc. and tell me it's not about parenthood. Watch the entire god damned Toy Story trilogy and tell me it's not about the fear of growing obsolete or losing your friends.

    are you calling toshiro mifune a teamster?

    Mysst on
    ikbUJdU.jpg
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    bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    what i mean is that they don't communicate anything you and i don't already know. their purpose isn't to best articulate a specific idea that needs to be articulated, their purpose is to grab an old idea we've heard before and show it to us again, this time with sharks/monsters/robots

    bsjezz on
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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Man I can get pumped for a new Pixar movie just because it's a new Pixar movie

    But

    Why Cars 2

    And not The Incredibles 2

    joshofalltrades on
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    sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    YaYa wrote: »
    there's a trailer out for it now

    umm

    I

    don't quite know what to say about it

    I mean we knew about the secret agent thing and it's got Michael Caine as a badass spy car, but...

    hmm

    I



    uh






    hm.

    sarukun on
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    MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Who doesn't want to see a shark monster struggle with the issues of parenthood though?

    Melding on
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    Lord DaveLord Dave Grief Causer Bitch Free ZoneRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Shark Tale is the worst Pixar movie, duh

    Lord Dave on
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    John ZoidbergJohn Zoidberg Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Do not want.

    Cars was just fine as a standalone film.

    John Zoidberg on
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    sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    BusterK wrote: »
    Miyizaki is a competent animator, an incredible designer, but a lackluster storyteller

    Your calling the stories of

    Spirited Away
    Howl's Moving Castle
    Princess Mononoke
    Lackluster?
    Really?

    I am.

    It's my opinion, of course, but I feel that if he had spent as much attention crafting his story arcs that he does to his environments and characters, then he'd have much more solid films.

    I might have to punch your liver right out of your body.

    what precisely is lacking in his storytelling, in your esitmation?

    sarukun on
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    Viscount IslandsViscount Islands [INSERT SoKo HERE] ...it was the summer of my lifeRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Man I can get pumped for a new Pixar movie just because it's a new Pixar movie

    But

    Why Cars 2

    And not The Incredibles 2

    $

    Viscount Islands on
    I want to do with you
    What spring does with the cherry trees.
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    StaleghotiStaleghoti Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Seriously though

    Sauvignon Blanc sucks

    Staleghoti on
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    FAQFAQ Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I really don't see mononoke as lackluster storytelling, it's probably the only fictional film I've seen that presents our environmental crisis with even a hint of depth and complexity

    FAQ on
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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Man I can get pumped for a new Pixar movie just because it's a new Pixar movie

    But

    Why Cars 2

    And not The Incredibles 2

    $

    You're right of course

    But I still can't get over the fact that I'm going to be in a movie theater thoroughly enjoying the sequel to a merely great movie instead of a fantastic one

    joshofalltrades on
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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I still need to see Grave of the Fireflies, apparently sometime when I am in dire need of clearing my tear ducts

    joshofalltrades on
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