Okay, okay, let's see. All that you know is the totals for each color besides yours. There's 99 of one and 100 of the other. The oracle is still pretty goddamn useless as far as I can tell because fuck, I can see a bunch of blue-eyed people too, big deal.
You know that when someone leaves, then they've figured out their own color with certainty. How did these people do it? Hmm.
SimBen on
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Lord DaveGrief CauserBitch Free ZoneRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
Write a note to the oracle asking him if he likes you, Y/N
Yeah but I know that already! What, does he say that every day? You said he says that on the first day and then he dies. He gives me no new information.
SimBen on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited November 2010
So he just says somebody has blue eyes then goes aware forever and never returns?
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Lord DaveGrief CauserBitch Free ZoneRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
I'm not seeing the point of the oracle, but there has to be a key point to the oracle, or else it's a useless red herring and the riddle can go fuck itself, so what new information is the oracle providing to one or more people on the dang Eyeball Island
Wait does he say there is specifically ONLY ONE person with blue eyes? Because then that's a big deal and it tells everyone exactly what their color is.
He says that there is a person with blue eyes. What he says has nothing to do with anyone other than the one person who has the blue eyes.
EDIT FOR A HINT:
HINT HINT HINT
Everyone with blue eyes leaves at the same time.
SLyM on
My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Feh. I solve puzzles by writing out shit and visualizing it. Hearing them or reading them doesn't do much for me.
Huh? Do your riddles normally come as pictographs? Why can't you write these ones out and visualise them?
To answer this question because I don't feel like getting out a pen and paper and drawing this shit up.
And yeah, they usually do. When I took the leadership class that had a lot of logic puzzles/riddles, I drew out the problems to solve them. I draw out the prisoner's dilemma to figure out rational behavior and I make flowcharts to do cost/benefit analysis. I make charts for most every logic puzzle I do, and I got a perfect on that section of the LSAT.
And I guess you leave the island that night.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Uh okay. If he says "there is one and exactly one person on this island with blue eyes" then either you've seen someone with blue eyes, in which case you have brown eyes, or you haven't, and therefore your eyes are blue. Either way you leave on the first day.
No, he says there is someone with blue eyes. All the information this gives you is that there is at least 1 person with blue eyes.
SLyM on
My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited November 2010
I get the feeling that you fucked up in telling this riddle.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
But then again you already know that! You can see all the blue-eyed people out there, thanks a lot wizard, I can see them too. How about teleporting me away from this fucking island or giving me my voice back or just restoring my memory of my eye color or giving me a goddamn mirror.
i'm not gonna go back and make absolutely sure that slym didn't fuck up the telling somewhere (i haven't been following along), but it seemed fine so far to me. but anyway, if you're unsure, i googled and found a way to tell it that i'm completely sure is unambiguous:
A group of people with assorted eye colors live on an island. They are all perfect logicians -- if a conclusion can be logically deduced, they will do it instantly. No one knows the color of their eyes. Every night at midnight, a ferry stops at the island. Any islanders who have figured out the color of their own eyes then leave the island, and the rest stay. Everyone can see everyone else at all times and keeps a count of the number of people they see with each eye color (excluding themselves), but they cannot otherwise communicate. Everyone on the island knows all the rules in this paragraph.
On this island there are 100 blue-eyed people, 100 brown-eyed people, and the Guru (she happens to have green eyes). So any given blue-eyed person can see 100 people with brown eyes and 99 people with blue eyes (and one with green), but that does not tell him his own eye color; as far as he knows the totals could be 101 brown and 99 blue. Or 100 brown, 99 blue, and he could have red eyes.
The Guru is allowed to speak once (let's say at noon), on one day in all their endless years on the island. Standing before the islanders, she says the following:
"I can see someone who has blue eyes."
Who leaves the island, and on what night?
There are no mirrors or reflecting surfaces, nothing dumb. It is not a trick question, and the answer is logical. It doesn't depend on tricky wording or anyone lying or guessing, and it doesn't involve people doing something silly like creating a sign language or doing genetics. The Guru is not making eye contact with anyone in particular; she's simply saying "I count at least one blue-eyed person on this island who isn't me."
And lastly, the answer is not "no one leaves."
edit: oh, cool, amp'd got the same one
redhead on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Ok, can they communicate with each other at all? Use hand gestures? Point at her, then point at someone else? Sort of corral all the people with blue eyes into a group using the hand gestures?
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
also aroused bull's hint is basically like "here is the answer to the riddle," fyi, so you might want to hold off on clicking those spoilers 'til you're sure you've given it your best
It would be a lot easier to work out if the numbers were smaller.
Wow OK this instantly got easier. So
all the blue eyes leave at the same time the next day. If it's 2 blue and 2 brown, and the other guy with the blue doesn't leave, you know you have blue also
also aroused bull's hint is basically like "here is the answer to the riddle," fyi, so you might want to hold off on clicking those spoilers 'til you're sure you've given it your best
Everyone was running around like a headless chicken, I had to do something
no, they can't communicate at all. it's not a trick, not a lateral thinking puzzle, not bullshit. looking for loopholes is not the way to go--it's a logic puzzle.
for the people who have solved this/know the answer, here's something that bugs me:
what information does the guy who says "i see at least one person with blah blah" at the start actually convey? why is he necessary? i don't think i've ever figured that out and would love if someone could explain it to me. i understand that he is necessary, just not exactly how. it feels like magic.
so the rules are that there is no communication at all and no way to know what the number of total blues or browns is?
I'm definitely missing something, because it seems like the only way the oracle's statement would get anyone off the island at all is if there was just one person listening to the oracle
you have two or more people on the island, the oracle says "I see somebody with blue eyes" and that's that, great
I can't see how to make the jump from that statement to any conclusion
for the people who have solved this/know the answer, here's something that bugs me:
what information does the guy who says "i see at least one person with blah blah" at the start actually convey? why is he necessary? i don't think i've ever figured that out and would love if someone could explain it to me. i understand that he is necessary, just not exactly how. it feels like magic.
It's the impetus for all the blue eyed people to look around and go "Well I see a bunch of other fuckers with blue eyes, maybe it's not me" and they all continue to just stand there.
It would be a lot easier to work out if the numbers were smaller.
Wow OK this instantly got easier. So
all the blue eyes leave at the same time the next day. If it's 2 blue and 2 brown, and the other guy with the blue doesn't leave, you know you have blue also
Close
You forgot to extrapolate it back up to 100 people
Aroused Bull on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
no, they can't communicate at all. it's not a trick, not a lateral thinking puzzle, not bullshit. looking for loopholes is not the way to go--it's a logic puzzle.
Yeah I figure out the answer, and it is a trick the way it was first told.
Everyone, everyone, else on the island has perfect logic, so they are doing the same thinking that you are.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
no, they can't communicate at all. it's not a trick, not a lateral thinking puzzle, not bullshit. looking for loopholes is not the way to go--it's a logic puzzle.
Yeah I figure out the answer, and it is a trick the way it was first told.
Everyone, everyone, else on the island has perfect logic, so they are doing the same thinking that you are.
not following this thread for a few pages must have gotten me out of the loop somewhere, because i don't really understand what you're saying
Posts
You know that when someone leaves, then they've figured out their own color with certainty. How did these people do it? Hmm.
Exactly.
e wait I thought it was already established that there were 99 blues and 100 browns and you and this dick wizard is this not true
EDIT FOR A HINT:
To answer this question because I don't feel like getting out a pen and paper and drawing this shit up.
And yeah, they usually do. When I took the leadership class that had a lot of logic puzzles/riddles, I drew out the problems to solve them. I draw out the prisoner's dilemma to figure out rational behavior and I make flowcharts to do cost/benefit analysis. I make charts for most every logic puzzle I do, and I got a perfect on that section of the LSAT.
And I guess you leave the island that night.
On this island there are 100 blue-eyed people, 100 brown-eyed people, and the Guru (she happens to have green eyes). So any given blue-eyed person can see 100 people with brown eyes and 99 people with blue eyes (and one with green), but that does not tell him his own eye color; as far as he knows the totals could be 101 brown and 99 blue. Or 100 brown, 99 blue, and he could have red eyes.
The Guru is allowed to speak once (let's say at noon), on one day in all their endless years on the island. Standing before the islanders, she says the following:
"I can see someone who has blue eyes."
Who leaves the island, and on what night?
There are no mirrors or reflecting surfaces, nothing dumb. It is not a trick question, and the answer is logical. It doesn't depend on tricky wording or anyone lying or guessing, and it doesn't involve people doing something silly like creating a sign language or doing genetics. The Guru is not making eye contact with anyone in particular; she's simply saying "I count at least one blue-eyed person on this island who isn't me."
And lastly, the answer is not "no one leaves."
edit: oh, cool, amp'd got the same one
Ok, can they communicate with each other at all? Use hand gestures? Point at her, then point at someone else? Sort of corral all the people with blue eyes into a group using the hand gestures?
Wow OK this instantly got easier. So
the xkcd guy has a solution somewhere, but I can't find it. shit is a hard riddle.
Everyone was running around like a headless chicken, I had to do something
so if there were 199 brown-eyed people, the blue eyed person would leave the first night
E: wait no nevermind
I'm definitely missing something, because it seems like the only way the oracle's statement would get anyone off the island at all is if there was just one person listening to the oracle
you have two or more people on the island, the oracle says "I see somebody with blue eyes" and that's that, great
I can't see how to make the jump from that statement to any conclusion
Close
Yeah I figure out the answer, and it is a trick the way it was first told.
Everyone, everyone, else on the island has perfect logic, so they are doing the same thinking that you are.
that doesn't explain it to me
you've made some mental leap that's not clear in those words, even in the example with 2 and 2
not following this thread for a few pages must have gotten me out of the loop somewhere, because i don't really understand what you're saying
if you want the answer, it's here
but this is totally solvable