Ed. The metagame as Zerg is insane right now. Everyone expects you to FE so when you half-ass a build order and get a few roaches instead you will roll over a lot of unprepared players.
Just had one long ass game against some Terran guy on Metal. I dunno if he was paticularly stellar or not, but he did a good job at applying a lot of early pressure. I managed to win, in the end, thanks to my hidden expo at the start that I never let him scout, and just macroing it up even after losing my main/natural (thank goodness I built my spire at the hidden expo). He went straight bio ball and added more stuff to the mix as the game went on, including lots of upgrades (D:) and went all marine after he saw I was using mutas, and later a bunch of thors.
I only won that game because of having that hidden expo though, and then just expanding 4 times to just get so many minerals and larva to just pump out lings to hold him off until I could catch up from losing my main. I am really shocked I managed to keep my minerals so low a lot of the time though, it was pretty damn cool.
One thing I have learned though, is that while I'm just focusing on getting my macro up, it works out well to just throw away stuff that I COULD focus on, but would make me neglect my macro. Stuff I can work on when I'm better at mining it up.
build something
get warpgate research
once warpgate research complete
ATTTTTTTTTTTACKKKKKKKK
Might want to look up metagame.
I was being somewhat facetious. Perhaps I was too subtle at my jabs at 4 gate, 3 gate robo, or any of those other variations (that all depend on warpgate tech to be aggressive)? That's basically the metagame for Protoss. Warpgate is the linchpin.
Anything else, proxy X, forge first, fast expand, is considered "cheese" and not the "metagame".
build something harass/kill SCV building rax
steal gas
get warpgate research
once warpgate research complete
ATTTTTTTTTTTACKKKKKKKK
Might want to look up metagame.
Added metagame vs Terran.
That is so juicy when it happens. You should experience it yourself. I imagine it's what terran's experience when they roll in a P's base with stimmed marauders.
build something
get warpgate research
once warpgate research complete
ATTTTTTTTTTTACKKKKKKKK
Might want to look up metagame.
I was being somewhat facetious. Perhaps I was too subtle at my jabs at 4 gate, 3 gate robo, or any of those other variations (that all depend on warpgate tech to be aggressive)? That's basically the metagame for Protoss. Warpgate is the linchpin.
Anything else, proxy X, forge first, fast expand, is considered "cheese" and not the "metagame".
And WP composition + Stargate or Robo is different from Terran 3-2-1, 1-1-1, 3-1-2 that all require a good amount of core units how?
And can we pleassssse kill all discussions of trying to define something as cheese or not?
Also super late to the party but I just watched JYS v Nestea, awesome game; definitely rooting for the underdog here.
How old is Jys? There seems to be a whole lot of 17-18 year old koreans breaking into the scene.
Eddy on
"and the morning stars I have seen
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
Jys is pretty awesome
I was super happy he did the build I've been working on. helpful to see it executed well (2 rax -> expand -> 2 factory mech (plus more fac or starport depending))
build something harass/kill SCV building rax
steal gas
get warpgate research
once warpgate research complete
ATTTTTTTTTTTACKKKKKKKK
Might want to look up metagame.
Added metagame vs Terran.
That is so juicy when it happens. You should experience it yourself. I imagine it's what terran's experience when they roll in a P's base with stimmed marauders.
Using your probe to kill an scv is the sign of a good player. Any time it happens to me I know im in for a fight. Its like a sign to me that this dude is definately a diamond. It literally is like a "oh, GAME ON!" moment.
build something harass/kill SCV building rax
steal gas
get warpgate research
once warpgate research complete
ATTTTTTTTTTTACKKKKKKKK
Might want to look up metagame.
Added metagame vs Terran.
That is so juicy when it happens. You should experience it yourself. I imagine it's what terran's experience when they roll in a P's base with stimmed marauders.
Using your probe to kill an scv is the sign of a good player. Any time it happens to me I know im in for a fight. Its like a sign to me that this dude is definately a diamond. It literally is like a "oh, GAME ON!" moment.
Every time I see a barracks far away from the mineral line I'm like "game on!"
Yesterday vs a Diamond Terran on Caverns, I killed the rax scv this was his response:
"Oops"
"I made a mistake"
Player has left the game.
I was sitting there watching my probe attack the unbuilt husk of the rax for like 10 seconds while my brain was processing what I was seeing.
build something
get warpgate research
once warpgate research complete
ATTTTTTTTTTTACKKKKKKKK
Might want to look up metagame.
I was being somewhat facetious. Perhaps I was too subtle at my jabs at 4 gate, 3 gate robo, or any of those other variations (that all depend on warpgate tech to be aggressive)? That's basically the metagame for Protoss. Warpgate is the linchpin.
Anything else, proxy X, forge first, fast expand, is considered "cheese" and not the "metagame".
And WP composition + Stargate or Robo is different from Terran 3-2-1, 1-1-1, 3-1-2 that all require a good amount of core units how?
And can we pleassssse kill all discussions of trying to define something as cheese or not?
Also super late to the party but I just watched JYS v Nestea, awesome game; definitely rooting for the underdog here.
Are you suggesting that 3 gate robo, 2 gate robo, 4 gate, or 3 gate stargate changes the meta game as much as 1-1-1 or 3-2-1 or 3-1-2? Or even 5 rax reaper?
Protoss "meta" builds have veered off from 4gate. Is there much variation in those builds? I don't think so. I think they all branch from this one build and Protoss doesn't have much "say" in the meta game. Yet.
Can you say the same from terran? I don't think you can because terran has many more choices that influence the meta game moreso than any of P's non-"cheese" builds.
I think even Z has more variation in their builds which affect the meta game. Remember when zerg learned how to FE? What did Protoss do? They made gateway units faster. Oooo. Then transitioned into a 4gate to crush the zerg expander. When Protoss did try to change the meta game through a Fast expand by walling off in maps like Lost Temple or Blistering Sands, well, how many Protoss still try this? It's just wayyyyy too fragile.
But even here, Zerg influenced the meta game because they had choices. P can do "cheese". Yes, now everyone must scout the corners of the map for pylons: i guess this is Protoss' meta game influence?
I think it's been mentioned in this thread before, but Protoss rely on "safer" builds because their units are glass cannons that either wtfown or get wtfowned. As such, they are more reactive to the meta game than proactive. Is this a bad thing? Who knows, but it's a thing, and I think the most likely cause for Protoss' bland builds.
That being said, what IS the proper response the a probe attacking your SCV building a rax? I usually pull two off the line to be able to kill the probe quick enough to hopefully save my SCV. If not, I can sandwhich the probe, kill it, and then put one of the two on the baracks. This seems...like it hurts my economy.
That being said, what IS the proper response the a probe attacking your SCV building a rax? I usually pull two off the line to be able to kill the probe quick enough to hopefully save my SCV. If not, I can sandwhich the probe, kill it, and then put one of the two on the baracks. This seems...like it hurts my economy.
You need to divert at least one SCV. if your micro is super cool, you can just make the scv that's under attack start running around and switch the builder over and over, or you can have them fight, etc.
That being said, what IS the proper response the a probe attacking your SCV building a rax? I usually pull two off the line to be able to kill the probe quick enough to hopefully save my SCV. If not, I can sandwhich the probe, kill it, and then put one of the two on the baracks. This seems...like it hurts my economy.
Usually sending 1 or 2 scvs stops me. I wouldn't worry about economy since MULES.
That being said, what IS the proper response the a probe attacking your SCV building a rax? I usually pull two off the line to be able to kill the probe quick enough to hopefully save my SCV. If not, I can sandwhich the probe, kill it, and then put one of the two on the baracks. This seems...like it hurts my economy.
Just part of the joy of playing Terran. You get used to it after a while. People who do it are still destined for a special circle of hell, though.
Metagame is doing something beyond the game, like I don't know, psychological warfare using in-game text or something. Or in how some MMO's people will dedicate themselves to merchanting instead of leveling/doing quests.
Satsumomo on
0
KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
edited November 2010
Hey ladi, add Klyka.110 to your list and message me!
We euros need to stick together
Also,thinking about doing an EU LOBBY in 1 1/2 hours!
"Metagame" is a term used to describe the current state of affairs in the game, like what general strategies and themes are trending up. Not specific build orders or whatever, just how things are usually played out. Cheese was the overarching metagame (since no one really knew how to play otherwise) when sc2 first came out, and now we're seeing a lot more diversity.
Eddy on
"and the morning stars I have seen
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
I try to do it in TvT because actually killing the building scv gives me a boner
I actually, because of building placement against zerg, usually hotkey one of my gathering scvs and as soon as the drone gets in sight I send it down for defense. if the drone doesn't attack I pull it back.
you don't need to send 2 unless you are slow on reacting because your building scv will move around whatever it's building which slows the attack and allows your 2nd scv to kill the probe. you don't need a 3rd.
That being said, what IS the proper response the a probe attacking your SCV building a rax? I usually pull two off the line to be able to kill the probe quick enough to hopefully save my SCV. If not, I can sandwhich the probe, kill it, and then put one of the two on the baracks. This seems...like it hurts my economy.
Just part of the joy of playing Terran. You get used to it after a while. People who do it are still destined for a special circle of hell, though.
nah dude. F your scvs. You guys got mules. However, we both lose out in the building category. We sacrifice drones. We should team up to hate on the protoss. fucking probes just walk there, start warp, get back to mining.
Metagame is doing something beyond the game, like I don't know, psychological warfare using in-game text or something. Or in how some MMO's people will dedicate themselves to merchanting instead of leveling/doing quests.
Stealing gas is kind of a metagame decision, because when you do it there's not a whole lot you can do to know if your opponent will be affected by it, and if your opponent wasn't planning on double gassing early, then it is a waste since it will die before you delay your opponent or get any information out of it.
That being said, what IS the proper response the a probe attacking your SCV building a rax? I usually pull two off the line to be able to kill the probe quick enough to hopefully save my SCV. If not, I can sandwhich the probe, kill it, and then put one of the two on the baracks. This seems...like it hurts my economy.
What works against me is if Terran builds near his mineral line. Immediately when they see my probe comin' in with a big banana grin on its face they'll send 1 scv to attack it, and the proximity to their mineral line makes it a lot safer for them. I usually only get scv kills if their building by their ramp, far away from reinforcements.
If a probe does manage to be in a position to kill your rax scv, you can have it stop building, but not cancel the rax and have another scv resume construction.
I 1Gate FE vs a Zerg whose 14Hatch, it doesn't feel fragile to me.
I think our whole meta-game revolves around what path we take to get to Colossus or HT, which kindof sucks, but I disagree that we get "no say" in the overall meta-game.
"Metagame" is a term used to describe the current state of affairs in the game, like what general strategies and themes are trending up. Not specific build orders or whatever, just how things are usually played out. Cheese was the overarching metagame (since no one really knew how to play otherwise) when sc2 first came out, and now we're seeing a lot more diversity.
Ah thanks for clearing that up.
The whole Protoss being UP thing just makes me remember how people played SC1 when it first came out, it was literally hilarious. One basing all the time, expanding only when you were mined out, etc...
Posts
My dad (who is Korean) literally didn't allow any fans in the house when I was a kid. I don't know about now but I'm pretty sure he's still insane.
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
Ed. The metagame as Zerg is insane right now. Everyone expects you to FE so when you half-ass a build order and get a few roaches instead you will roll over a lot of unprepared players.
Then again I've never been Thor dropped on Lost Temple, or even had tanks on the ledge.
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
build something
get warpgate research
once warpgate research complete
ATTTTTTTTTTTACKKKKKKKK
That is weird as hell
How did that get started?
edit: the Korean government issued a warning, something to the effect of "millions of children are being suffocated by fans every second"
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
What? Why?
You see that thing just left of your diamond in the sig. That's why. :P
Tank/Thor drops?
I now have 7 hours of NA time to do....whatever!?
Might want to look up metagame.
I only won that game because of having that hidden expo though, and then just expanding 4 times to just get so many minerals and larva to just pump out lings to hold him off until I could catch up from losing my main. I am really shocked I managed to keep my minerals so low a lot of the time though, it was pretty damn cool.
One thing I have learned though, is that while I'm just focusing on getting my macro up, it works out well to just throw away stuff that I COULD focus on, but would make me neglect my macro. Stuff I can work on when I'm better at mining it up.
Added metagame vs Terran.
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I was being somewhat facetious. Perhaps I was too subtle at my jabs at 4 gate, 3 gate robo, or any of those other variations (that all depend on warpgate tech to be aggressive)? That's basically the metagame for Protoss. Warpgate is the linchpin.
Anything else, proxy X, forge first, fast expand, is considered "cheese" and not the "metagame".
That is so juicy when it happens. You should experience it yourself. I imagine it's what terran's experience when they roll in a P's base with stimmed marauders.
And WP composition + Stargate or Robo is different from Terran 3-2-1, 1-1-1, 3-1-2 that all require a good amount of core units how?
And can we pleassssse kill all discussions of trying to define something as cheese or not?
Also super late to the party but I just watched JYS v Nestea, awesome game; definitely rooting for the underdog here.
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
I was super happy he did the build I've been working on. helpful to see it executed well (2 rax -> expand -> 2 factory mech (plus more fac or starport depending))
edited for spoilers
Using your probe to kill an scv is the sign of a good player. Any time it happens to me I know im in for a fight. Its like a sign to me that this dude is definately a diamond. It literally is like a "oh, GAME ON!" moment.
This is my first season ticket from GOM, so I dunno the protocol we run with.
Maybe if there is a stream ro something today,Trus will let me co-cast
Every time I see a barracks far away from the mineral line I'm like "game on!"
Yesterday vs a Diamond Terran on Caverns, I killed the rax scv this was his response:
"Oops"
"I made a mistake"
Player has left the game.
I was sitting there watching my probe attack the unbuilt husk of the rax for like 10 seconds while my brain was processing what I was seeing.
Are you suggesting that 3 gate robo, 2 gate robo, 4 gate, or 3 gate stargate changes the meta game as much as 1-1-1 or 3-2-1 or 3-1-2? Or even 5 rax reaper?
Protoss "meta" builds have veered off from 4gate. Is there much variation in those builds? I don't think so. I think they all branch from this one build and Protoss doesn't have much "say" in the meta game. Yet.
Can you say the same from terran? I don't think you can because terran has many more choices that influence the meta game moreso than any of P's non-"cheese" builds.
I think even Z has more variation in their builds which affect the meta game. Remember when zerg learned how to FE? What did Protoss do? They made gateway units faster. Oooo. Then transitioned into a 4gate to crush the zerg expander. When Protoss did try to change the meta game through a Fast expand by walling off in maps like Lost Temple or Blistering Sands, well, how many Protoss still try this? It's just wayyyyy too fragile.
But even here, Zerg influenced the meta game because they had choices. P can do "cheese". Yes, now everyone must scout the corners of the map for pylons: i guess this is Protoss' meta game influence?
I think it's been mentioned in this thread before, but Protoss rely on "safer" builds because their units are glass cannons that either wtfown or get wtfowned. As such, they are more reactive to the meta game than proactive. Is this a bad thing? Who knows, but it's a thing, and I think the most likely cause for Protoss' bland builds.
edit: god damn totp
You need to divert at least one SCV. if your micro is super cool, you can just make the scv that's under attack start running around and switch the builder over and over, or you can have them fight, etc.
Usually sending 1 or 2 scvs stops me. I wouldn't worry about economy since MULES.
TvT is by far my most difficult matchup, stupid imba scans stopping banshees and tanks killing my dudes. What comes out on top with Thors vs Tanks?
Metagame is doing something beyond the game, like I don't know, psychological warfare using in-game text or something. Or in how some MMO's people will dedicate themselves to merchanting instead of leveling/doing quests.
We euros need to stick together
Also,thinking about doing an EU LOBBY in 1 1/2 hours!
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
I actually, because of building placement against zerg, usually hotkey one of my gathering scvs and as soon as the drone gets in sight I send it down for defense. if the drone doesn't attack I pull it back.
you don't need to send 2 unless you are slow on reacting because your building scv will move around whatever it's building which slows the attack and allows your 2nd scv to kill the probe. you don't need a 3rd.
nah dude. F your scvs. You guys got mules. However, we both lose out in the building category. We sacrifice drones. We should team up to hate on the protoss. fucking probes just walk there, start warp, get back to mining.
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Stealing gas is kind of a metagame decision, because when you do it there's not a whole lot you can do to know if your opponent will be affected by it, and if your opponent wasn't planning on double gassing early, then it is a waste since it will die before you delay your opponent or get any information out of it.
What works against me is if Terran builds near his mineral line. Immediately when they see my probe comin' in with a big banana grin on its face they'll send 1 scv to attack it, and the proximity to their mineral line makes it a lot safer for them. I usually only get scv kills if their building by their ramp, far away from reinforcements.
If a probe does manage to be in a position to kill your rax scv, you can have it stop building, but not cancel the rax and have another scv resume construction.
I 1Gate FE vs a Zerg whose 14Hatch, it doesn't feel fragile to me.
I think our whole meta-game revolves around what path we take to get to Colossus or HT, which kindof sucks, but I disagree that we get "no say" in the overall meta-game.
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Joe's Stream.
Ah thanks for clearing that up.
The whole Protoss being UP thing just makes me remember how people played SC1 when it first came out, it was literally hilarious. One basing all the time, expanding only when you were mined out, etc...