I dipped my toe into Guild Wars after getting excited about the upcoming sequel, and I've actually found it to be really rewarding and enjoyable. You can also get a healthy dosing of backstory and world building in addition to the 30 bonus cosmetic items unlocked via the Hall of Monuments.
Make no mistake, though. The combat in Guild Wars has more in common with, say, Neverwinter Nights than what you see in the sequel.
Actually, like Entriech, I find the combat and gameplay in GW1 quite enjoyable. It's definitely different than it will be in GW2, but I find it has it's own charm. If it didn't, I wouldn't be still playing it after 5 some odd years. There's plenty of reasons to play GW1 besides the bonus items for GW2. It's not everyone's cup of tea certainly, but for me it's one of my favorite games.
Plus, if you are at all concerned about a GW2 beta, you can be certain that ArenaNet will at least ask if you played GW1 ;-)
Geod on
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
I hope there's a collector's edition box available at release with an artbook, soundtrack, in-game stuff and a t-shirt, among other things.
The combat in the original Guild Wars is stiff, unresponsive and boring. It's just about the exact opposite of what you see in GW2 videos.
The combat in the original Guild Wars is stiff, unresponsive and boring when compared to GW2. However, compared to a typical online RPG, it is actually pretty quickly-paced and strategic. GW1 is a very well-made game if you just look at it by itself.
GW2 will be very different from GW1, despite sharing much of the design ethos of the first (ANet's fairly unique approach). So playing GW1 to get a feel for GW2 is not a good idea, but it is a great game in its own right.
The combat in the original Guild Wars is stiff, unresponsive and boring. It's just about the exact opposite of what you see in GW2 videos.
The combat in the original Guild Wars is stiff, unresponsive and boring when compared to GW2. However, compared to a typical online RPG, it is actually pretty quickly-paced and strategic. GW1 is a very well-made game if you just look at it by itself.
GW2 will be very different from GW1, despite sharing much of the design ethos of the first (ANet's fairly unique approach). So playing GW1 to get a feel for GW2 is not a good idea, but it is a great game in its own right.
GW1 is stiff, unresponsive and boring when compared to pretty much any game, not just GW2. It does have its charm, but the combat system is ass.
Agreeing with reVerse, in almost all fights I find myself just watching the cooldown timers on my skills, checking who I have targetted and making sure I'm calling out the right target.
I mean, come on. The game doesn't even have a Z axis
But good lord do I love spending 15-30 minutes tweaking and playing around with skills and different builds.
i had far more fun with guild wars combat than that of any other mmo. the right mix of targeting, skill selection and management, and a perfect pace. it aint street fighter, but it is far more compelling and tactical than, say, world of warcraft.
I mean, come on. The game doesn't even have a Z axis
Yeah it does. You just can't bunnyhop when you get bored.
But since you bring up the z-axis, I'll point out that elevation (aka z-axis) actually has an affect on gameplay for characters using projectile weapons and attacks, unlike any other RPG I can think of.
GW1 is stiff, unresponsive and boring when compared to pretty much any game, not just GW2. It does have its charm, but the combat system is ass.
We just have different opinions on the game. I personally prefer the combat system of GW to most online RPGs I've played.
To be more objective (for the person asking about trying GW1), I can point out that the game is widely praised, and sold millions of copies. So it's far from bad. But as I said in my earlier post, it only has a thin connection to GW2, so that is not a good reason to pick it up.
What i hated the most about GW1 = 8x skill slots and hundreds of skills.
They upped it to 10 in GW2 -- and it's more limiting: some are racial locked, some are class utility, one is a self-heal. On the plus side, since the first five are switched with your weapon set that can be changed in combat, it looks more dynamic in that regard.
I'm still trying to tell from the videos but it looks like, just like the original, you have a window to set up your five weapon skills based on your weapon set and those are the skills used when equipping the set in combat. Is this correct?
BTW, I also found the eight skills limiting but I do like the concept of having a ton of skills and selecting a subset of them as your character build. GW1 always reminded me of a card-based game mechanic in an MMO: skills are just cards and you build your character deck from all the cards you have available, trying to go for those cards that synchronize with each other while building a strategy. I like GW1 combat for what it is but I don't love it -- I think 'stiff' is the wrong word personally but it is very different than GW2. GW1 is based all around your skill usage, nothing else. And skill usage is determined around cooldowns and energy consumption which is a rapidly refilling resource. On the other hand, outside of combat, I don't care for the movement system and the graphics, while very pretty when it came out, especially for the low end requirements, are definitely starting to age since it hasn't really been updated since it came out 5+ years ago.
Really, since you don't have to pay a monthly fee and I'm sure the game can be picked up rather cheaply, it's not a bad purchase even if you only play it for a weekend or two. It's got some neat concepts that are quite unique for MMO-type games.
They upped it to 10 in GW2 -- and it's more limiting: some are racial locked, some are class utility, one is a self-heal. On the plus side, since the first five are switched with your weapon set that can be changed in combat, it looks more dynamic in that regard.
You are right that it is dynamic, but it is definitely debatable that it is "more limiting". While technically (just straight math) there are less possible skill combinations, the proportion of builds that are actually effective is substantially higher due to the weapon skills being fixed.
Also, there are still tens of thousands of builds for each class. And that's before you add in the effects of Traits which modify skill behavior. Diversity will not be an issue
I'm still trying to tell from the videos but it looks like, just like the original, you have a window to set up your five weapon skills based on your weapon set and those are the skills used when equipping the set in combat. Is this correct?
That is not correct. The five skills you get for equipping a certain weapon while playing a certain class will always be the same. The sixth skill is a healing skill (multiple options available), 7-9 are wild, and 10 is your chosen Elite skill.
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
To further prove that opinions are indeed quite divided on GW1 (as if that wasn't clear enough already), I thought the 8 skill slots was the best thing about the game, mechanics-wise. Initially, I was actually a little disappointed to hear that they increased the amount of skill slots, but the weapon switching with weapon specific skills sounds interesting enough that I can't be super bummed out about.
reVerse on
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
GW2 will allow for customization in skills, traits, gear appearance, character appearance, and the dye system. Split between five races and eight classes, I can pretty much guarantee that most players will be different in many ways. You'll be able to tell just by looking at their faces, their gear mods, their dyes and seeing them fight in their chosen way during battle.
There will still be some restrictions and some people using popular builds metacrafted for competitive purposes but it's going to be a big breath of fresh air.
To further prove that opinions are indeed quite divided on GW1 (as if that wasn't clear enough already), I thought the 8 skill slots was the best thing about the game, mechanics-wise. Initially, I was actually a little disappointed to hear that they increased the amount of skill slots, but the weapon switching with weapon specific skills sounds interesting enough that I can't be super bummed out about.
You and me both, man.
I get really really tired of games where you go in and have every skill you've ever learned at the ready. It's too many options, it really is. Not only is it confusing to learn all of the things you are capable of, but it makes the combatants homogeneous. Every class has a HoT, every class has a DoT, every class has a nuke, every class has a giant damage spell, every class has x, y, and z.
The only thing that makes some classes better at one of those categories is that theirs are more, or better. When you have only 8 skills it sets it up like, as has been pointed out before, a MtG deck. Now instead of being able to do everything, you can do what you've chosen to do and that's it. All of a sudden it's not about whether you're a priest or a warrior, it's about whether you brought these skills or those, and your skill in building your character or choosing your character's build is going to mean that there are far more strategic options available to you.
You are basically trading away a greater depth of tactical play in order to introduce a whole different element into the game. And that, in my opinion, is a no-brainer.
To further prove that opinions are indeed quite divided on GW1 (as if that wasn't clear enough already), I thought the 8 skill slots was the best thing about the game, mechanics-wise. Initially, I was actually a little disappointed to hear that they increased the amount of skill slots, but the weapon switching with weapon specific skills sounds interesting enough that I can't be super bummed out about.
This right here. The eight skill limit was a fantastic design choice, in my opinion. Skills in GW synergize amazingly well. The whole is absolutely more than the sum of its parts in any good build. It created a level of specialization that simply doesn't exist in most other MMOs.
I like that in GW you have to make choices, sometimes hard choices, on what to bring with you. It's not just about what level you are and if you had enougl money to buy your skills, it's about how you as a player put that you have together to make something.
It's the best part of GW1 and it's part of why I am looking so forward to GW2.
Seidkona on
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
I'm still trying to tell from the videos but it looks like, just like the original, you have a window to set up your five weapon skills based on your weapon set and those are the skills used when equipping the set in combat. Is this correct?
That is not correct. The five skills you get for equipping a certain weapon while playing a certain class will always be the same. The sixth skill is a healing skill (multiple options available), 7-9 are wild, and 10 is your chosen Elite skill.
Hmm... well that's kind of disappointing as I liked building my skill list. So basically while we have 10 slots only three are customizable? So every Elementalist using a staff will be using the same five skills?
I guess I'm surprised since the traits window looked like there were skill lists that were modifiable per weapon set. Oh well, I'll still enjoy the game but I like diversity
Gonna need a source for GvG not being in the game. I haven't heard that at all. It would be pretty ridiculous for there to be no competitive Guild environment in Guild Wars' sequel.
Edit: Though I suppose they could have GvG merged with the other competitive PvP modes (aka, just get rid of Guild Hall PvP) if you are running a guild team.
One thing that will be great in the PvP for GW2 is hot-joining. New people can join a match in progress, as in FPS games.
I didnt say there wouldnt be any GvG.
I said there wont be GvG in GW2 the way it was in the original guild wars.
I'm pretty sure its being replaced with a 5v5 gamemode with varying map objectives, that will more closely resemble AvA. Remember there is no healing class in GW2 so if they had the original GvG gametype in, there would have to be some way to heal and restore the npcs otherwise it will be just blitz team after blitz team, who can kill the npc that cant be healed first etc. I'm pretty sure they will want to keep the gametypes focused more on PvP and objective control.
That said I will definatly miss the original Guild Wars PvP. Ive played on almost all stages of the guild wars ladder, from in guilds barely on the ladder pages, to guilds that made the top 50. All though various metagames guild wars had to offer. My most favorite being 2 dom mesmers, 2 warriors, 2 eles, 2 monks.
Draygo on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I'm still trying to tell from the videos but it looks like, just like the original, you have a window to set up your five weapon skills based on your weapon set and those are the skills used when equipping the set in combat. Is this correct?
That is not correct. The five skills you get for equipping a certain weapon while playing a certain class will always be the same. The sixth skill is a healing skill (multiple options available), 7-9 are wild, and 10 is your chosen Elite skill.
Hmm... well that's kind of disappointing as I liked building my skill list. So basically while we have 10 slots only three are customizable? So every Elementalist using a staff will be using the same five skills?
I guess I'm surprised since the traits window looked like there were skill lists that were modifiable per weapon set. Oh well, I'll still enjoy the game but I like diversity
Five slots are customizable, however one slot will always be a healing skill and one elite.
You can have traits for all the weapons you can equip. Otherwise switching weapons wouldn't be terribly smart thing to do.
reVerse on
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
Can weapons be enhanced with gems/enchants/weights/sharpening tools/scopes/bayonets/or general magic/engineering? If they can in any of those ways, will that effect the skills in any way?
It's also clearly evident that guns and bows don't need ammo, as shown by rangers and warriors and thieves all firing away without needing any sort of ammo to run the skill. But, can you imply the use of a better ammo to improve the skill, without needing ammo to run it?
I doubt ethier of the above things is in or ever will be in but I certainly would like some way to improve my gear in a WoW manner if possible. Maybe it will only apply to armor. It's a minor concern at any rate.
You can have traits for all the weapons you can equip. Otherwise switching weapons wouldn't be terribly smart thing to do.
I assume you mean as opposed to being able to set up any skills? I was imagining it as you'd get new skills like you did in GW1 but some would be a "Staff skill" or a "Dagger main hand" skill, etc. So when building your "Dagger" skill list you'd only be able to chose from a subset of skills.
I also wonder if different weapons of the same type will have different skills. 50 levels of using staff skills starting at level 1 won't feel very much like growth. Or maybe there's still level requirements so what you can do with a staff at level 1 is different than at level 50? Or if "Simple Stick" staff will have different skills than "Uber Staff of Flame."
Timmer on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
You can have traits for all the weapons you can equip. Otherwise switching weapons wouldn't be terribly smart thing to do.
I assume you mean as opposed to being able to set up any skills? I was imagining it as you'd get new skills like you did in GW1 but some would be a "Staff skill" or a "Dagger main hand" skill, etc. So when building your "Dagger" skill list you'd only be able to chose from a subset of skills.
Yes, as opposed to. A dagger will always have the same three main hand/two off-hand skills. The traits are used to augment those skills.
I also wonder if different weapons of the same type will have different skills.
Can weapons be enhanced with gems/enchants/weights/sharpening tools/scopes/bayonets/or general magic/engineering? If they can in any of those ways, will that effect the skills in any way?
Yes, you can have enchants. Some examples they've mentioned is life leech and elemental damage. There's no ammo, you just enchant your weapons with grips and bowstrings and the like.
reVerse on
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
Can weapons be enhanced with gems/enchants/weights/sharpening tools/scopes/bayonets/or general magic/engineering? If they can in any of those ways, will that effect the skills in any way?
Yes, you can have enchants. Some examples they've mentioned is life leech and elemental damage. There's no ammo, you just enchant your weapons with grips and bowstrings and the like.
Most of my problems with Guild Wars 1 were for personal reasons.
1: There was a HUGE reliance on finding a Monk for a decent party unless everyone playing was a god at the game. Heroes KIND OF mitigated this, but the available skills for them were incredibly reliant on the player having them unlocked first. I'll get more into that in a second. Of course, ANet is quite self-aware of this and GW2 seems to have a major emphasis on self-sustaining characters.
2: I am TERRIBLE at experimenting with builds on my own, and any wiki dedicated to them only tells you how to make builds with skills found in the endgame and cross-campaign. That's great for people that have made it that far, but while I'm still fucking around in the early-mid game it gets hard figuring out what I wanna do, especially without elites. This only makes managing a team of Heroes even harder when you're still not that keen on good skill builds, because you're also having to manage skill bars of classes you haven't even played yet.
3: Getting wiped in Prophecies missions feels like you just wasted a good chunk of time for nothing. I hated spending 40-60 minutes plowing my way through only to get wiped and told to do it all over again. Probably what ultimately turned me off the game. I also played a bit of Nightfall and that seemed far more lenient, though.
another issue with using heroes is there are some skills that they use well (interrupts) and some that they don't (most other skills). heroes need some e-management to make it. if that means only giving them 3 skills to use, then you can do that. i'm serious.
another issue with using heroes is there are some skills that they use well (interrupts) and some that they don't (most other skills). heroes need some e-management to make it. if that means only giving them 3 skills to use, then you can do that. i'm serious.
I had a tradition with some of my guildies that we would form into a group of 4 and go quad elementalist to spam stone daggers at people. Your cred increased proportionally to the number of empty skills on your bar.
"Fool, you're taking earth attunement and elemental attunement? That's three skills, get the hell out of here!"
*sigh* Good times. Especially when we randomly found people that would inexplicably take 60+ damage per dagger.
is there any info on the racial abilities yet? i watch a lot of the content from pax but i don't remember anyone really talking about that part of the game in depth.
Feldorn on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
They've mentioned stuff like asura getting a ranged magical attack and sylvari getting a root and charr getting mines, in addition to the double hellhounds that is a human elite racial and the norn shapeshifting elite racials, but they haven't talked terribly in depth about that stuff, presumably because most of it isn't done yet.
Most of my problems with Guild Wars 1 were for personal reasons.
1: There was a HUGE reliance on finding a Monk for a decent party unless everyone playing was a god at the game. Heroes KIND OF mitigated this, but the available skills for them were incredibly reliant on the player having them unlocked first. I'll get more into that in a second. Of course, ANet is quite self-aware of this and GW2 seems to have a major emphasis on self-sustaining characters.
I see people say this all the time, and it just isn't true unless you're doing hard modes or the Underworld/FOW type dungeons. Every mission in all three campaigns can be cleared with henchmen only. And I don't mean player plus heroes plus henchmen. I don't even mean player plus henchmen. Seven henchmen can beat every mission. You just have to call targets and watch. I have personally done this.
I also wonder if different weapons of the same type will have different skills. 50 levels of using staff skills starting at level 1 won't feel very much like growth.
Even though weapon-based skills are fixed, you do not get all your skills at level 1. You should have all your weapon skills by the 20's (not sure exactly what level). Additionally, you don't get your elite slot unlocked until level 30. So you will definitely feel some character growth in the early levels. Later in the game you will be finding more and more traits to further improve your character.
That one of the slots is required to be a "heal" is not as limiting as it sounds. A skill build without a heal in it would be a very poor choice for GW2. Likewise, you are almost certainly going to want to bring along an elite to turn the tide of battle. Effectively you have 5 skills to modify at your discretion, and the other 5 you swap out by changing your weapon. Traits can change the behavior of those weapon skills. In short, you will have plenty of room for diversity.
Most of my problems with Guild Wars 1 were for personal reasons.
1: There was a HUGE reliance on finding a Monk for a decent party unless everyone playing was a god at the game. Heroes KIND OF mitigated this, but the available skills for them were incredibly reliant on the player having them unlocked first. I'll get more into that in a second. Of course, ANet is quite self-aware of this and GW2 seems to have a major emphasis on self-sustaining characters.
I see people say this all the time, and it just isn't true unless you're doing hard modes or the Underworld/FOW type dungeons. Every mission in all three campaigns can be cleared with henchmen only. And I don't mean player plus heroes plus henchmen. I don't even mean player plus henchmen. Seven henchmen can beat every mission. You just have to call targets and watch. I have personally done this.
I dunno man, Alesia was a pretty terrible Monk, only using touch-range shit and getting herself killed all the time.
Though I will admit I'm pretty incompetent and unlucky overall, and most of my experiences are during the early Proph. days. Maybe their AI improved since then.
The dragon burried beneath the ice of Drakkar Lake is actually not Jormag. He's to Jormag what the Shatterer is to Kralkatorrik, something akin to lieutenant.
Also, a couple more Kill Ten Rats articles, worth a read:
Crit is not a replacement for damage, rather crits are used to change the field of play. An example he gave me was when a player had a trait that applied the chilled condition on a crit. All of the sudden, things changed because the chilled enemy was slowed in movement and could not dodge. This is what crit-heavy players are going to want to look for because the best way to use it is to follow the crit with a change up. The better the change up, the more devastating that crit will have been.
Keeping with the skill questions, I asked about complementary skills. Were they just ground effects plus action? Peters said that specific skill types, such as “fields” would react with other skill types, such as “whirl.” So players would know that if they see one skill type being used, they can use a complementary skill type to combo ... There won’t be a hidden formula because they want players to know that certain skill types will combo.
With all the focus on getting rid of conventional MMO profligation, I asked why they still wanted people to craft at crafting stations. Peters said it was much the same reason that people wouldn’t have infinite inventory space. They wanted people to gather during a down time, and having the crafting stations moved Guild Wars 2 away from it’s socially-insulated predecessor.
At the start of each [level] tier the crafted items are going to be very powerful, and then they will lower to the balance found at the cap of each tier. Therefore, being able to craft as a player levels is going to help immensely with progression. Furthermore, crafting items allows players to really tailor their build. For instance if a warrior likes to amp up with poison conditions he could make a sword hilt that gives poison on crit and then combine that with a sword blade with a heavy crit modifier. The crafting system is going to allow for a lot of this flexibility.
Turning to the materials side of crafting, I asked if the recipes are going to be random or if they will make sense. Peters said that like materials will make like products. The developers were fans of Minecraft’s crafting system, and they wanted to make the Guild Wars 2 crafting system similarly intuitive. Finding the materials to make the specific item is going to be a very big part of the crafting system rather than grinding out 30 copper sword hilts from one raw material.
You can have traits for all the weapons you can equip. Otherwise switching weapons wouldn't be terribly smart thing to do.
I assume you mean as opposed to being able to set up any skills? I was imagining it as you'd get new skills like you did in GW1 but some would be a "Staff skill" or a "Dagger main hand" skill, etc. So when building your "Dagger" skill list you'd only be able to chose from a subset of skills.
Yes, as opposed to. A dagger will always have the same three main hand/two off-hand skills. The traits are used to augment those skills.
I also wonder if different weapons of the same type will have different skills.
They won't.
As far as I know this is sort of incorrect. The weapon skills are also class based. So all the bow-wielding warriors will have the same 5 skills as each other but they will have a different 5 from the bow-wielding rangers.
Arkady on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
You can have traits for all the weapons you can equip. Otherwise switching weapons wouldn't be terribly smart thing to do.
I assume you mean as opposed to being able to set up any skills? I was imagining it as you'd get new skills like you did in GW1 but some would be a "Staff skill" or a "Dagger main hand" skill, etc. So when building your "Dagger" skill list you'd only be able to chose from a subset of skills.
Yes, as opposed to. A dagger will always have the same three main hand/two off-hand skills. The traits are used to augment those skills.
I also wonder if different weapons of the same type will have different skills.
They won't.
As far as I know this is sort of incorrect. The weapon skills are also class based. So all the bow-wielding warriors will have the same 5 skills as each other but they will have a different 5 from the bow-wielding rangers.
Yeah, I should've said "will always have the same skills based on your class". My mistake.
I mean, come on. The game doesn't even have a Z axis
Yeah it does. You just can't bunnyhop when you get bored.
But since you bring up the z-axis, I'll point out that elevation (aka z-axis) actually has an affect on gameplay for characters using projectile weapons and attacks, unlike any other RPG I can think of.
Sorry to bring this up so late in reply. I was referring to the fact that you could be stood 100 feet above an enemy (on a tower wall, for example), and as long as said enemy is 1 foot to your right, they can still attack you with melee attacks.
But you do raise a good point about the ranged weapons, I've been playing for 5 years and I still can't get my head around which bow does what, good job I'm a paragon then eh? :P
Varethius on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I mean, come on. The game doesn't even have a Z axis
Yeah it does. You just can't bunnyhop when you get bored.
But since you bring up the z-axis, I'll point out that elevation (aka z-axis) actually has an affect on gameplay for characters using projectile weapons and attacks, unlike any other RPG I can think of.
Sorry to bring this up so late in reply. I was referring to the fact that you could be stood 100 feet above an enemy (on a tower wall, for example), and as long as said enemy is 1 foot to your right, they can still attack you with melee attacks.
But you do raise a good point about the ranged weapons, I've been playing for 5 years and I still can't get my head around which bow does what, good job I'm a paragon then eh? :P
I had absolutely no idea the different bows did different things until I read it on a wiki while I was looking for something else. At that point I had been playing my ranger for about a month or so. That stuff really should be in the weapon tooltips.
Most of my problems with Guild Wars 1 were for personal reasons.
1: There was a HUGE reliance on finding a Monk for a decent party unless everyone playing was a god at the game. Heroes KIND OF mitigated this, but the available skills for them were incredibly reliant on the player having them unlocked first. I'll get more into that in a second. Of course, ANet is quite self-aware of this and GW2 seems to have a major emphasis on self-sustaining characters.
I see people say this all the time, and it just isn't true unless you're doing hard modes or the Underworld/FOW type dungeons. Every mission in all three campaigns can be cleared with henchmen only. And I don't mean player plus heroes plus henchmen. I don't even mean player plus henchmen. Seven henchmen can beat every mission. You just have to call targets and watch. I have personally done this.
I dunno man, Alesia was a pretty terrible Monk, only using touch-range shit and getting herself killed all the time.
Though I will admit I'm pretty incompetent and unlucky overall, and most of my experiences are during the early Proph. days. Maybe their AI improved since then.
Alesia was a horrible, awful monk, but she was still good enough. And I went through Prophecies like this before Nightfall or Factions were released, so I don't think it was due to an AI update. The ugly truth is that henchies are better than pugs. In a group of randoms, you're lucky to get two people attacking the same target. With henchies, you can get all seven of them to focus, even the monks. Concentrated fire more than makes up for any deficiencies in their builds or AI.
Vi Monks on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Since we were talking about skills, customization and traits, here's a list of currently known thief traits from the official Wiki. You can have three traits per weapon/attribute, one major and two minors. That should give people some idea what kind of customization options there will be.
Bottom of the page for links to the other professions.
reVerse on
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
So let me get this straight... the norn have one of Jormag's teeth, his teeth, and it dwarfs all of them in their seven foot glory.
:shock:
How the fuck are we supposed to fight an internet dragon made of that many pixels? Like from a practical standpoint, the Elder Dragons seem to be just too damn big for us little heroes to even fight. We would need some kind of help. Which I guess is the point of the three Orders and the wider racial plot lines.
Here's hoping we find a giant MAKO cannon and use it to put some holes in Zhaitan.
Posts
Make no mistake, though. The combat in Guild Wars has more in common with, say, Neverwinter Nights than what you see in the sequel.
Plus, if you are at all concerned about a GW2 beta, you can be certain that ArenaNet will at least ask if you played GW1 ;-)
GW2 will be very different from GW1, despite sharing much of the design ethos of the first (ANet's fairly unique approach). So playing GW1 to get a feel for GW2 is not a good idea, but it is a great game in its own right.
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
GW1 is stiff, unresponsive and boring when compared to pretty much any game, not just GW2. It does have its charm, but the combat system is ass.
I mean, come on. The game doesn't even have a Z axis
But good lord do I love spending 15-30 minutes tweaking and playing around with skills and different builds.
But since you bring up the z-axis, I'll point out that elevation (aka z-axis) actually has an affect on gameplay for characters using projectile weapons and attacks, unlike any other RPG I can think of.
We just have different opinions on the game. I personally prefer the combat system of GW to most online RPGs I've played.
To be more objective (for the person asking about trying GW1), I can point out that the game is widely praised, and sold millions of copies. So it's far from bad. But as I said in my earlier post, it only has a thin connection to GW2, so that is not a good reason to pick it up.
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
I'm still trying to tell from the videos but it looks like, just like the original, you have a window to set up your five weapon skills based on your weapon set and those are the skills used when equipping the set in combat. Is this correct?
BTW, I also found the eight skills limiting but I do like the concept of having a ton of skills and selecting a subset of them as your character build. GW1 always reminded me of a card-based game mechanic in an MMO: skills are just cards and you build your character deck from all the cards you have available, trying to go for those cards that synchronize with each other while building a strategy. I like GW1 combat for what it is but I don't love it -- I think 'stiff' is the wrong word personally but it is very different than GW2. GW1 is based all around your skill usage, nothing else. And skill usage is determined around cooldowns and energy consumption which is a rapidly refilling resource. On the other hand, outside of combat, I don't care for the movement system and the graphics, while very pretty when it came out, especially for the low end requirements, are definitely starting to age since it hasn't really been updated since it came out 5+ years ago.
Really, since you don't have to pay a monthly fee and I'm sure the game can be picked up rather cheaply, it's not a bad purchase even if you only play it for a weekend or two. It's got some neat concepts that are quite unique for MMO-type games.
Also, there are still tens of thousands of builds for each class. And that's before you add in the effects of Traits which modify skill behavior. Diversity will not be an issue
That is not correct. The five skills you get for equipping a certain weapon while playing a certain class will always be the same. The sixth skill is a healing skill (multiple options available), 7-9 are wild, and 10 is your chosen Elite skill.
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
There will still be some restrictions and some people using popular builds metacrafted for competitive purposes but it's going to be a big breath of fresh air.
You and me both, man.
I get really really tired of games where you go in and have every skill you've ever learned at the ready. It's too many options, it really is. Not only is it confusing to learn all of the things you are capable of, but it makes the combatants homogeneous. Every class has a HoT, every class has a DoT, every class has a nuke, every class has a giant damage spell, every class has x, y, and z.
The only thing that makes some classes better at one of those categories is that theirs are more, or better. When you have only 8 skills it sets it up like, as has been pointed out before, a MtG deck. Now instead of being able to do everything, you can do what you've chosen to do and that's it. All of a sudden it's not about whether you're a priest or a warrior, it's about whether you brought these skills or those, and your skill in building your character or choosing your character's build is going to mean that there are far more strategic options available to you.
You are basically trading away a greater depth of tactical play in order to introduce a whole different element into the game. And that, in my opinion, is a no-brainer.
This right here. The eight skill limit was a fantastic design choice, in my opinion. Skills in GW synergize amazingly well. The whole is absolutely more than the sum of its parts in any good build. It created a level of specialization that simply doesn't exist in most other MMOs.
It's the best part of GW1 and it's part of why I am looking so forward to GW2.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
Hmm... well that's kind of disappointing as I liked building my skill list. So basically while we have 10 slots only three are customizable? So every Elementalist using a staff will be using the same five skills?
I guess I'm surprised since the traits window looked like there were skill lists that were modifiable per weapon set. Oh well, I'll still enjoy the game but I like diversity
I didnt say there wouldnt be any GvG.
I said there wont be GvG in GW2 the way it was in the original guild wars.
I'm pretty sure its being replaced with a 5v5 gamemode with varying map objectives, that will more closely resemble AvA. Remember there is no healing class in GW2 so if they had the original GvG gametype in, there would have to be some way to heal and restore the npcs otherwise it will be just blitz team after blitz team, who can kill the npc that cant be healed first etc. I'm pretty sure they will want to keep the gametypes focused more on PvP and objective control.
That said I will definatly miss the original Guild Wars PvP. Ive played on almost all stages of the guild wars ladder, from in guilds barely on the ladder pages, to guilds that made the top 50. All though various metagames guild wars had to offer. My most favorite being 2 dom mesmers, 2 warriors, 2 eles, 2 monks.
Five slots are customizable, however one slot will always be a healing skill and one elite.
You can have traits for all the weapons you can equip. Otherwise switching weapons wouldn't be terribly smart thing to do.
It's also clearly evident that guns and bows don't need ammo, as shown by rangers and warriors and thieves all firing away without needing any sort of ammo to run the skill. But, can you imply the use of a better ammo to improve the skill, without needing ammo to run it?
I doubt ethier of the above things is in or ever will be in but I certainly would like some way to improve my gear in a WoW manner if possible. Maybe it will only apply to armor. It's a minor concern at any rate.
I assume you mean as opposed to being able to set up any skills? I was imagining it as you'd get new skills like you did in GW1 but some would be a "Staff skill" or a "Dagger main hand" skill, etc. So when building your "Dagger" skill list you'd only be able to chose from a subset of skills.
I also wonder if different weapons of the same type will have different skills. 50 levels of using staff skills starting at level 1 won't feel very much like growth. Or maybe there's still level requirements so what you can do with a staff at level 1 is different than at level 50? Or if "Simple Stick" staff will have different skills than "Uber Staff of Flame."
Yes, as opposed to. A dagger will always have the same three main hand/two off-hand skills. The traits are used to augment those skills.
They won't.
edit:
Yes, you can have enchants. Some examples they've mentioned is life leech and elemental damage. There's no ammo, you just enchant your weapons with grips and bowstrings and the like.
Good stuff.
1: There was a HUGE reliance on finding a Monk for a decent party unless everyone playing was a god at the game. Heroes KIND OF mitigated this, but the available skills for them were incredibly reliant on the player having them unlocked first. I'll get more into that in a second. Of course, ANet is quite self-aware of this and GW2 seems to have a major emphasis on self-sustaining characters.
2: I am TERRIBLE at experimenting with builds on my own, and any wiki dedicated to them only tells you how to make builds with skills found in the endgame and cross-campaign. That's great for people that have made it that far, but while I'm still fucking around in the early-mid game it gets hard figuring out what I wanna do, especially without elites. This only makes managing a team of Heroes even harder when you're still not that keen on good skill builds, because you're also having to manage skill bars of classes you haven't even played yet.
3: Getting wiped in Prophecies missions feels like you just wasted a good chunk of time for nothing. I hated spending 40-60 minutes plowing my way through only to get wiped and told to do it all over again. Probably what ultimately turned me off the game. I also played a bit of Nightfall and that seemed far more lenient, though.
I had a tradition with some of my guildies that we would form into a group of 4 and go quad elementalist to spam stone daggers at people. Your cred increased proportionally to the number of empty skills on your bar.
"Fool, you're taking earth attunement and elemental attunement? That's three skills, get the hell out of here!"
*sigh* Good times. Especially when we randomly found people that would inexplicably take 60+ damage per dagger.
I see people say this all the time, and it just isn't true unless you're doing hard modes or the Underworld/FOW type dungeons. Every mission in all three campaigns can be cleared with henchmen only. And I don't mean player plus heroes plus henchmen. I don't even mean player plus henchmen. Seven henchmen can beat every mission. You just have to call targets and watch. I have personally done this.
Unless you're doing Urgoz/Deep/UW/FoW, human players are not required at all.
That one of the slots is required to be a "heal" is not as limiting as it sounds. A skill build without a heal in it would be a very poor choice for GW2. Likewise, you are almost certainly going to want to bring along an elite to turn the tide of battle. Effectively you have 5 skills to modify at your discretion, and the other 5 you swap out by changing your weapon. Traits can change the behavior of those weapon skills. In short, you will have plenty of room for diversity.
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
I dunno man, Alesia was a pretty terrible Monk, only using touch-range shit and getting herself killed all the time.
Though I will admit I'm pretty incompetent and unlucky overall, and most of my experiences are during the early Proph. days. Maybe their AI improved since then.
Referring to the relative size/power:
Also, a couple more Kill Ten Rats articles, worth a read:
Chat with Jeff Grub
Chat on Mechanics and Crafting
Man that's a lot of quotables. 8-)
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
As far as I know this is sort of incorrect. The weapon skills are also class based. So all the bow-wielding warriors will have the same 5 skills as each other but they will have a different 5 from the bow-wielding rangers.
LoL: failboattootoot
Yeah, I should've said "will always have the same skills based on your class". My mistake.
Sorry to bring this up so late in reply. I was referring to the fact that you could be stood 100 feet above an enemy (on a tower wall, for example), and as long as said enemy is 1 foot to your right, they can still attack you with melee attacks.
But you do raise a good point about the ranged weapons, I've been playing for 5 years and I still can't get my head around which bow does what, good job I'm a paragon then eh? :P
I had absolutely no idea the different bows did different things until I read it on a wiki while I was looking for something else. At that point I had been playing my ranger for about a month or so. That stuff really should be in the weapon tooltips.
Alesia was a horrible, awful monk, but she was still good enough. And I went through Prophecies like this before Nightfall or Factions were released, so I don't think it was due to an AI update. The ugly truth is that henchies are better than pugs. In a group of randoms, you're lucky to get two people attacking the same target. With henchies, you can get all seven of them to focus, even the monks. Concentrated fire more than makes up for any deficiencies in their builds or AI.
Bottom of the page for links to the other professions.
:shock:
How the fuck are we supposed to fight an internet dragon made of that many pixels? Like from a practical standpoint, the Elder Dragons seem to be just too damn big for us little heroes to even fight. We would need some kind of help. Which I guess is the point of the three Orders and the wider racial plot lines.
Here's hoping we find a giant MAKO cannon and use it to put some holes in Zhaitan.